A couple Servant Resistances

[Monarch_Laciel]

A few resistances servants should have based on what I saw in London.

Resistance to Magic Absorption

Mash and Ritsuka were not significantly affected by the Demonic Fog, which drains the magic from people extremely quickly until they die. In Mash's case, this was noted to be due to her servant nature. Ritsuka just... had it. I think from their proximity to Mash iirc. Same with all the other servants who appeared outside in London. This should likely scale to all Servants. Tamanoe should also be given this to an even greater degree, as she was helping Kintoki fight Tesla, at which point the fog had increased in power to the point it could instantly absorb Mordred and Mash down to their spiritual cores.

Resistance to Poison / Acid Manipulation

Mash, Mordred and Fujimaru were not significantly affected by Jack's Mist. This should be given to all Servants as the description of the ability in Apocrypha states that Servants aren't poisoned and only reduced in agility.

 

[Reppuzan]

Not totally sold on the Magic Absorption.

I'm pretty sure the Mist simply can't drain Servants fast enough to do anything other than hamper their vision and agility. The Mist's effects can also be countered by magecraft or simply surging one's mana all over the place.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

In which case, it's still a resistance.

Normal people dying within an hour while Servants can just hang out in the fog for days at a time still shows that it's awfully hard to drain their magic enough to do anything to them.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Isn't that because Servants have more magic than normal people?

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I checked back London and pretty sure the reason even Rits can survive the fog was due to them being protected by Mash, or rather Galahad's, defense skill whatever.

Otherwise, I kinda wonder why Kintoki (Zerker one) has the above but not Tama Caster or such. In fact, he's like the only one I recall here that has specifically has it. Would it apply to everyone, maybe?

Same thing for the smoke thing as I'm sure Mash/Galahad's skill is what helps protect Ritsuka enough for them to not get insta-KO'd.

 

[Solacis]

Mash was protected from the Mist due to her inherent anti-poison passive that also applies to her Master. As for the Resistance to magic absorption, every mage has it normally. This is shown in F/SN when Rin and Shirou resisted the absorption of Bloodfort Andromeda despite most other students being reduced to molten flesh.

Since we're on the topic of resistances, I mentioned this in the discussion board too, shouldn't Servants have resistance to Power Nullification? Specifically, Anti-Magic. Explicitly anti-magic weapons such as Gae Dearg don't instakill Servants despite Servants being made up of magic themselves.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Monarch

Not really? Because it's an explicit weakness of the Noble Phantasm rather than an ability of the Servants themselves.

@Solacis

I'm pretty sure her anti-poison passive only applies to her Master, as she gets drunk during Rashoumon.

I really don't know how to handle Gae Daerg, since it's never specified if it's an ability of the Servants or a limitation of Gae Daerg itself.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

The Mist states that Servants aren't affected. That means either

A) This poison that can cause normal people die choking on acidic fumes in seconds, does not do anything to Servants.... for no real reason, and just because the Mist has a soft spot for Servants?

Or

B) Servants are strong enough to not be affected by the poison that can cause normal people die choking on acidic fumes in seconds.

Option A just leaves this unknown and arbitrary reason for it, while Option B makes sense with what we know of Servants vs Humans.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I'm pretty sure her anti-poison passive only applies to her Master, as she gets drunk during Rashoumon.

Maybe, but I'm thinking that Mash getting drunk is more for comedy than meant to reflect her abilities

 

[Solacis]

@Repp

We know that Gae Dearg is strong enough to nullify Noble Phantasms, based on the fact that it cancelled out Invisible Air. We also know that it affects Saber's armor, which is for all intents and purposes a literal part of her when summoned as a Servant. Its only stated limitation is that it can't break the sources of magecraft like Rule Breaker can.

Also, since Servants can resist Command Spells with Magic Resistance, shouldn't Magic Resistance also resist things that can be achieved with a CS? Things like forced teleportation, willpower manipulation, statistics reduction, forced silence, etc.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

That's a point there for Jack's mist against humans vs that of Servants. Mats state that it just decreases their agility by a rank rather than damage them so it does lean more to maybe having resistance against something like that.

Kinda like the soul rip thing of Goetia on Guda vs that of the other Servants. Pretty sure the guy was legit looking at them and/or the others was looking at him when the stare thing happened.

Is there any other resistances that might be worth put for Servants here?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I've only put the ones that I've seen from playing FGO, but I believe they should also resist Life/Death Manipulation seeing as the Type Moon wiki says servants can resist Loptr Laegjarn due to not being proper life.

"Servants are some of the only beings that have some resistance to the Sword, as they are not proper Life and are merely Ether in the form of past individuals"

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

A big stretch thing but not disagreeable (might not be the best word to say here) seeing as Chaldea and co. can actually fight off Surt despite his big ass flame sword that's equal in power to Lartoria's Rhon.

I was told by Rep on Skype that might be more a weakness of Surts sword than the Servants having actual resistance though. Which I guess would make sense too.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

If something manipulates life, it shouldn't be able to manipulate Servamts who aren't really life.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Point.

 

[FDrybob]

Judging from the wiki page, the sword simply has the "preferential right" against all life, allowing it to kill any living being. That doesn't necessarily mean it uses life or death manipulation to do so.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

And Serenity's poison doesn't insta kill servants.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Small necro, but deserved.

Serenity's poison too. It can instantly kill normal people, but it can't instantly kill Servants. That's resistance.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

yes necro is valid

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

It'd be really neat and beneficial if we had more people to talk on here and see if this can possible to add...

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yeah, have the knowledgables been messaged about this?

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Don't think so.

 

[Reppuzan]

I think it's more a weakness of the poison than a resistance.

There's an explicit poison resistance skill in Fate and I'm hesitant to just hand poison resistance to every Servant.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Resistances should be measured by the effects of the ability on a normal person vs a servant. If it's strong enough to instantly kill humans, but not strong enough to affect servants, that's because the servants are strong, which is a resistance to poison on their part. The poison resistance skill would just be an extra on top of it.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

So the argument is


Reppuzan

The poison does not work as well on spiritual bodies as on biological ones, Servants vs Humans

Monarch

The poison doesn't work as well on Servants as it does on humans so the servants have resistance


right?

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I really don't even know what's going on anymore at this point when this isn't really active...

Aside that, that seems to be the case on the current topic for Poison resistance or not. Recapping on other stuff, there's Monarch on having for Life or Death Manip resistance and then there's that FDryBob guy above sometime ago before this thread went inactive saying it's more of Loptr Laegjarn just having the right of killing any and all living beings and not necessarily having life or death manip to do that.

At this point, I'm honestly just not feeling with this thread anymore. Whatever happens here, I'm alright with either way. If it does pass, cool. If not, then that's that.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Even if it's that the poison doesn't work as well as on spiritual bodies, would we assume any other poison in fiction to automatically work on spiritual bodies?

If Nasu says that poison doesn't work as well on spiritual bodies, why would we assume it's only Serenity's poison?

Also even if the Loptr is a matter of having the right to kill living beings and not life manipulation, it's still made clear by servants resistance to it that they are not proper life, which should give resistance to life manipulation in and of itself.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I'm not going to bother with Loptr thing anymore.

Also, I actually unfollowed simply out of pure disinterest but came back seeing as I brought this up to Ever who is rather curious of how this is going.

@Monarch: Asking in Ever's place, did you bother to bring up Jack's mist earlier or is the mist thing from the early part of this thread just referring to the fog in London?

The Poison resistance may be viable as per Ever reminding me of this from Serenity's mats I guess:

"Zabaniya: Delusional Poison Body Rank: C Type: Anti-Personnel Range: 0 Maximum Number of Targets: 1 person

Her state of being where she continued to kill everyone who touched her by poison has been transformed into a Noble Phantasm. It results in death to living beings that touch her skin and bodily fluids. If it is armaments that are not Noble Phantasms, then it is also possible to corrode them instantly when they come into contact with her poison. Because she is not able to "adjust" the poison inflicted towards living beings, opponents who touched her will be killed without fail. However, she is able to voluntarily decide whether the armaments she touches would be corroded or not.

Towards Servants, she is not able to "kill them simply by touching them", but it is more than possible to do things such as causing them pain that slightly weakens their movements. It is also possible to cause damage and bad status effects to them if they happen to come into contact with her mucous membrane, such as through oral means. It is generally death for any being who comes into contact with her mucous membrane a total of three times."

Unless argued otherwise again, I can see this being added. Ever's also kinda on board with the mist thing of Jack's going by here too:

"The Mist: Pitch-black Misty Metropolis Rank: C Type: Barrier Range: 1~10 Maximum Number of Targets: 50 people

A Noble Phantasm that creates a barrier of mist. The mist of sulfuric acid, created with magic power, is the Noble Phantasm itself. If it's a Servant, they will receive no damage, but their Agility will decrease by a rank. The user can choose who will and who won't be affected by the mist among those inside her Noble Phantasm."

Again, not gonna argue or even just talk about the Loptr thing. I don't care about it anymore.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

All the descriptions say is that the poison doesn't affect Servants as badly. Yet it can still instantly kill humans.

Unless we assume that the poison has some chemical component that makes it specifically unable to affect the biology of a Servant or come up with a similarly unfounded reason for it to be a specific weakness of the poison towards Servants, being barely affected by something that instantly kills normal humans is still resistance.

I brought up Jack's fog in the OP but haven't since. Again though, a fog that causes normal humans to choke to death but only slightly slows Servants is still a resistance for Servants unless we assume some arbitrary unfounded reason that the reason the fog doesn't affect servants is because the fog has some strange component that makes it completely useless against a Servant instead of just making the occams razor and assuming that something that doesn't affect a group of superhumans as bad as normal people is because they all resist it.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Poison effects servants all the time, though. Heck, Mordred, one of the examples you used, gets poisoned to all heck by Semiramis in Apocrypha. Other examples include Robin Hood's skill and a number of other phantasms.

Mash has a special skill that allows her to prevent peeps and herself from being effected by posions; I'd imagine the cases you described are just a result of her extending that protection to the other servants.

Legit I think that skill of Mash's was outright explained in London.

Also, since the poison in those instances are magic based you should double check to make sure it wasn't just the Magic Resistance skill doing its thing.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Resistance doesn't mean immunity

Mordred being hurt by the freaking Hydra poison (and still fighting through it) doesn't mean that she isn't resistant to a weaker poison.

Mordred was walking through the smoke in London well before she met Mash, and the description of Serenity and Jack's poison clearly states that Servants aren't as badly affected, independent of Mash's skill.

Robin Hood's NP also makes poison literally explode from the Servant's body, which at that point isn't really resisting poison anymore, so saying Servants are hurt by that doesn't mean they don't resist other poison.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Resistance doesn't mean immunity
Being poisoned by the freaking Hydra poison doesn't mean that you aren't resistant to a weaker poison.

When you factor in Mash's skill and Magic Resistance I don't see why we need to assume a universal poison resistance was involved. Again, look at other servants. Robin Hood and Jack's poison has visible effects, for the later just look at Apocrypha.

I'll get scans from London that explain what I'm talking about.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Mordred was walking through the smoke in London well before she met Mash, and the description of Serenity and Jack's poison clearly states that Servants aren't as badly affected, independent of Mash's skill.

Robin Hood's NP also makes poison literally explode from the Servant's body, which at that point isn't really resisting poison anymore, so saying Servants are hurt by it doesn't mean they don't resist other poison.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Seriously, poisons that instantly kill normal humans don't kill Servants.

Smoke that causes humans to choke and die as their lungs burn away only slows Servants a bit.

What explanation can you construct in which that is not resistance?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Btw dude I know what you're talking about, you don't need to look for scans. I argued for Mash getting poison resistance based on her "Poison Resist (Temporary)" a while back.

But Mordred was already wandering around the fog before Mash arrived, and Jack and Serenity's NPs both say servants aren't effected as bad. Mash isn't involved.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

>Mordred

Magic resistance, boyo.

Also, I found the scan, it's explicitly explained that servants don't resist poisons in the conventional sense, but since the poison in question was magic based they resisted it by resisting magic in general.

So it's more like every servant has slight magical resistances.

I'll post it in a second.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Poison and magic are different things.

Can you show that scan then? I don't remember anything like that from London or I'm certain I would be pressing for universal magic resistances.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Universal magic resistance it is.

Also add magical poison, magical absorption and magical acid to the list of things they resist via magic resistance.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

To be fair some servants have better resistances than others. The 'innate' resistance doesn't cover more powerful targeted magic like Hassan of Serenity, Robin Hood, and Semiramis, unless they have A - EX ranked magical resistances.

Like some servants like Arash have specific poison resistances.