A battle which will End all of Existence (Ynnead vs Dis [Dark Tower])

[Aeyu]

By far the strongest being in WH40K vs the true form of darkness. Who could possibly win this epic battle?! Both are absolutely bloodlusted and at maximum total power - 100%.


Not Yncarne but close enough..





Ynnead: 0

Dis: 0

Inconclusive: 7 (CK is stronger but it's not really determinable who would win)

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

What is the absolute most ridiculous thing Ynnead has done in the WH40K continuity.

Legitimately curious here.

 

[Aeyu]

Smashing Slaanesh, being > the Chaos Gods, and being capable of having a realm like the Warp inside of its stomach. He also has insane death hax, but his death hax probably wouldn't work well against CK's equally insane death hax.

 

[Theglassman12]

Inconclusive as this fight can go either way imo.

 

[Aeyu]

How much further above GEoM would you say Ynnead is? GEoM is currently getting blasted by Living Tribunal, so that could help us out here.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Okay wait, so its best feat is basically containing an infinite-dimensional space and its Monitor-Sphere-esque "top point" (which would be the "deeper end" of the Warp) within itself.

If that's all, then it isn't killing the True Crimson King no matter how hard it tries. The large of this is due to Gan (a being who, lowballed to his absolute weakest, encompasses the Tower to the point that it's merely an infinitely small aspect of him) can't seem to kill him despite having largely the same powers as Ynnead and a few other, more devastating ones. The other large of it is that, from what I was told about it in a previous VS thread, the Warp is nothing as complex a structure as the one the Dark Tower embodies. Not only does the Tower have infinite layers; each layer in and of itself contains an infinitely-spanning multiverse, and the mere atoms of a single layer are large enough to contain the entirety of every other layer below it. Dis transcends all of this.

I also believe his regen is higher than anything Ynnead has been shown to nullify, as its best feat in this regard (from everything I've been told up to now) was destroying Slaanesh, who only has Mid-Godly. The King, being able to regenerate from the very collapse of DT reality and all of its layers, seems like his abilities would need a degree of nullification that Ynnead has not shown yet. Of course, even if I'm wrong about that, another being who was shown to completely ignore regen on such a level was still deemed unable to get past his other defenses, so the point may be moot regardless.

The other thing is, Ynnead doesn't seem to have the degree of protection here that that the King himself does. I'm sure its powers over fate, death and concepts are potent, but I'm doubtful they're anything as strong as what Gan is capable of bringing to bear. Being the source of the very concepts of "plot" and "fate" is >>>>>>>>> merely manipulating such things (Ynn is only capable of doing so with the latter anyway), and the King is powerful enough to directly oppose Gan in those areas, having remained alive all this time as a sort of testament to that. Ynnead, as I see it, is the strongest thing in Warhammer. It has not encountered anything which can give it a true run for its money, and thus its defenses (if it has any) have not been tested against such a being.

Unless I'm missing some vital information here, the outcome of this fight is largely the same as the vast majority of fights involving the Crimson King's true form; the opponent cannot kill him, and has no means of saving themselves from his obscenely strong metahax.

 

[Aeyu]

So is that 1 for Dis? Added.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I think Dis is likely far "stronger", but at this point, I don't know if I'd actually cast a vote for him. Let me explain.

Ynnead differs from other Warp Gods to an absolutely massive extent. First off, it does not seem to get stronger from belief, nor does it have the usual sort of linked concepts. In fact, it originally was not even supposed to manifest until every Eldar was dead. No worshippers, no power of belief, as its true place is among the silence of death.

"Eldrad had long believed in the possibility of rousing a new Eldar deity: Ynnead, god of the dead. Many a doom-laden seer believed Ynnead would awaken to destroy Slaanesh, that diabolical Chaos God who sought to devour every Eldar soul, but legend had it that this would only happen when every Eldar in the galaxy had left the mortal coil." - Death Masque

This differs heavily from, say, Nurgle. Ynnead is not empowered by the act of things decaying and dying, but instead the dead themselves. Even its realm, on a conceptual level, seems to be "dead". It lies beyond the Warp, and is a realm of nothingness and absence, as opposed to the Warp's formless Chaos. It is the realm of "death" in its truest sense.

"The line did not pass into the Warp, but into the cold void beyond. Neither real nor unreal, nor the in-between: The Realm of Death, the Absence, the Empty Expanse. And here she found the cold beat of Ynnead's heart, restless, stirring. Here, the spirits of the slain were drawn, the souls of Eldar gathered like a mist of silver particles." - Hand of Darkness

Ynnead seems to be to the Immaterium what the Immaterium is to the C'tan, only to an even greater extent. It is not a true Warp entity as we usually think of it, but a being of emptiness and the void; true death.

"The howling, screaming vortex through which the Reborn passed was the embodiment of utter Chaos. So fierce and baleful was Yet the Reborn found themselves floating through a tunnel in the Warp unhindered, as if borne by an underwater current. At their fore was the Yncarne, a revenant creature so inimical to Chaos that the stuff of the Empyrean could not slow it. Even the Gods of Chaos did not look upon the creature directly; the incarnation of Ynnead's essence was so anathema to them they could not truly perceive it, even had they known where to look." - Fracture of Biel-tan

The above was the effect caused on Chaos by a mere infinitessimal fragment of Ynnead's incomplete essence. It is not a difference in sheer power, but a difference in this entity being a true void which is anathema to everything the Gods are and can do. This makes sense, as Ynnead is the end of/exists outside of the Wheel of Fate which Slaanesh consumed, which dictates the fate of mortal and god alike. It is "empty", to put it in simple terms.

So while I don't think Ynnead has shown or been hinted at having remotely the level of power to erase something like the Crimson King, I similarly don't think the King has shown what is needed to "kill" something like Ynnead, if such a term even applies.

In short, I'd say Dis is superior, but I can't really say he "wins" a fight, from what I know. I suppose that means inconclusive.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

...

So basically, for specialized conceptual reasons tied to how Ynnead exists in the first place, CK can't actually kill it despite being the stupidly more powerful entity out of the two.

This is Dis VS The Endless all over again. Damn...

 

[Ultima_Reality]

funny how both Ynnead and The Endless were only saved from Crimson King because of cosmic reasons regarding their existence which stopped him from metahaxing them to nonexistence like he did to almost every single High 1-B who dared to be put on a vs match against him

beautiful

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I feel like this kind of shit is only possible in Tier 1. I've legit never run into it anywhere else.

And this has officially happened three times now. lol

 

[Aeyu]

The only thing that I think really kinda needs to be put into perspective is the whole plot manip thing.

 

[Aeyu]

Also, I was gonna make it GEoM vs CK, but I strongly think that would have ended in a godstomp. Would all Chaos Gods + Emprah vs CK be better? (still probably a godstomp)

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

1. Plot Manipulation only goes so far before it ventures into Conceptual Manipulation territory. And the King's plot manip (despite being ungodly levels of powerful) isn't quite within that range. I'm pretty sure he'd have to be capable of rewriting whole concepts in order to get past what Ynnead's existence was just described as, and as far as the DTverse goes, I think that's something that only Gan and Bessa can do.

2. Considering one of our highest authorities on Warhammer just admitted that Dis is most likely far stronger than WH40K's strongest being? Yeah, that's probably a stomp.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yeah, I think Dis/Gan are way too much for most of 40k's High 1-Bs. Ynnead is currently the only exception, and that's just due to his nature stopping him from being meta-haxxed and basically entering a stalemate. Though Gan has a way better shot than Dis considering his status.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Dis: My hax powers are made of bullshit.

Ynnead: Yeah, well my entire existence is made of bullshit.

/thread

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Also, it's kind of a testament to how out-of-whack the High 1-B tier is that the strongest beings in it are basically unable to be killed by anything else in the tier. For varying reasons.

 

[TheSandman31]

Inconclusive for reasons above

Also, can someone create a Ynnead vs Death thread? It will likely be just another inconclusive or maybe Death wins because of her extremely potent death manipulation (Can "kill" even ideas, concepts and one-shot characters with High-Regen) but I just want my waifu to be used more

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Dis: My hax powers are made of bullshit.
Ynnead: Yeah, well my entire existence is made of bullshit.

/thread

"The Man in Black gave a spiteful chuckle as he felt the foundation of reality shudder, existence itself recoiling from each blow struck between a pair of powers beyond imagining. It amused him to see such primordial forces reduced to a conflict so decidedly mortal. Perhaps his work would be even easier than anticipated.

Yet, with each slam of godly fists against the very fabric of creation, the nauseating grin on Walter's face twisted ever downward into a look of existential terror. Though he had not realized it initially, this feeling of a neverending, fabricated conflict had been with him, before. In fact, it was one he had known all too well, through every twist and turn of his sinful life. For the first time in any of his untold number of existences, the man known as Walter Padick experienced a revelation whose sheer despair the most hellish depths of the Prim could not hope to replicate.


Wrestling is ******* fake." - The Dank Tower

 

[Js250476]

^ Steven King would be proud

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

...Did I ever formally switch my vote to inconclusive? I'm not sure if I did.

If not...well, yeah. Switching to inconclusive for the obvious reasons.

 

[KinkiestSins]

I swear, the same three people comment/make any tier 1 fights. King, Azzy and Aeyu ovo.

Anyway, inconclusive fra

 

[Js250476]

Inconclusive for reasons that continues to haunt tier 1 fights

 

[Aeyu]

Maybe we should develop different criteria that will allow these battles to become more conclusive, then.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Maybe we should develop different criteria that will allow these battles to become more conclusive, then.

Yes.

That is all.

 

[Schnee_One]

Inconclusive FRA

 

[Aeyu]

I guess you can add it now. Be sure to mention that while CK is more powerful, that it's impossible to tell who would win.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Azathoth.

Minor nitpick, but...

"The line did not pass into the Warp, but into the cold void beyond. Neither real nor unreal, nor the in-betwee: The Realm of Death, the Absence, the Empty Expanse. And here she found the cold beat of Ynnead's heart, restless, stirring. Here, the spirits of the slain were drawn, the souls of Eldar gathered like a mist of silver particles." - Hand of Darkness

That's actually a misspelling of mine. The real line is "Neither real nor unreal, nor the skein-between:"

 

[Aeyu]

Does that change anything though?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Well, kinda. Skein in Warhammer is used to refer to the "Skein of fate", i.e, the myriad threads of the future which farseers see and twist.

So the quote is saying that Ynnead is neither of the Real Universe, nor the Warp, nor the Skein of the Future (Which is sorta related with the Webway), instead of saying that he is neither real, nor unreal, nor a state between both.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Matt

That seems to just be further support of the "of the void" thing, then. Since Ynnead is located in this empty expanse and not the materium, the Warp, or even the Webway.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Woah. The Azzy returns.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The Azzy returns from being horribly sick.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Heal, my boi.

Check the new Warhammer Discussione Generalis thread.

I'm sure that'll make you happy.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

This thread finished itself a lot quicker than I expected.

Also, once this gets added, I'm pretty sure the King is going to have more concluded matches than any other High 1-B we have.

 

[Become_the_strongest]

Bumb.

 

[Aeyu]

are you gonna

vote?!

or can I add this

or is it different now

like what

 

[Jockey-1337]

Inconclusive FRA

 

[Jockey-1337]

Inconclusive for reasons above
Also, can someone create a Ynnead vs Death thread? It will likely be just another inconclusive or maybe Death wins because of her extremely potent death manipulation (Can "kill" even ideas, concepts and one-shot characters with High-Regen) but I just want my waifu to be used more

Her actions would make Nurgle stronger.


Also how is it possible to kill someones who always existed and never existed?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Innconclusive for reasons above.