9-B Brackets: Round 3 (For realsies this time)

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Kouki FRA.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Kouki - 4 (Wok, Gargoyle, CP, Velox)

Killua - 2 (Mand, Apies)

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

''Speedbump''

 

[Overlord775]

Kouki for versatility, precog, stats amplification and stats debuffing

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Kouki fra

 

[Mand21]

Before Killua gets crushed when he shouldn't, may I point out some stuff:

"Subsonic+ compared to potentially supersonic+ is a pretty substantial difference if you ask me."

This only occurs when he uses his ultimate boost, beyond even Limit Break. Not to mention, if you look at the calc that made that happen, it is only possible if Kouki's speed is exactly Mach 0.5. However, this creates the problem that such a speed should be classified as Subsonic+, turns this battle into a speedblitz and is an assumption that shouldn't be done since the basis for Kouki's speed is merely "Moves so fast that ordinary people can't perceive his motions", a.k.a Faster Than Eye. If you assume his speed to be any lower, he'll cap at Supersonic (Mach 0.4 base) or even cap at Subsonic+ (Mach 0.1 base) and the average of that would cap him at slightly Supersonic (Mach 0.25 base).

In other words, classifying Kouki's stats to go up to Supersonic+ is a logical inconsistency with his maximum buff being 15x and his base being only Subsonic. It's literally impossible to reach Supersonic+ from Subsonic through a 15x speed buff because then your base would be Subsonic anyways.

"Kouki can just heal himself from any potential injuries."

Irrelevant, he won't be able to tank many of them since Killua shall go for the kill with a sharp weapon. I bet he can't heal from being dead or suddenly lethally injured (or possibly spammed with lethal injuries).

"Limit break typically lasts 8 minutes."

Meaning that as long as Killua uses his stealth, overwhelming skill, wits and abilities to avoid him during that time, he'll drain himself and get surpassed by the end of it? Not to mention we both already know of Killua's capacity to defeat stronger opponents. Oh, and Killua has so much stamina he might as well keep up with him during that.

"100 dragons vs 1000 dragons, but each of the 1000 dragons used 3 breath attacks so more like 3000 vs 100, and their attacks still got dodged"

You know that 30 linear projectiles from a reasonably similar direction are way easier to dodge than a higher (or perhaps even lower) number of complex-pattern attacks from all directions, especially if Killua's speed is still equal or higher than Kouki's by that point, right? There's no evidence he'd have a decisive win because one of the best feats of precog was something below what Killua can do, and precog is a defensive skill. Against an assassin, should it fail, it means extreme damage or OHK. I really ask you to reconsider the position that Killua has nothing on his precog, for it really doesn't take another precog or a counter power do defeat precog, just a change on strategy.

"Also did you see what i posted above? He can unleash hundreds of attacks instantly"

Killua can just use his illusions to take away the focus of the attack and dodge the rest, or grasp their pattern and dodge them. As an assassin, he has the experience it takes to deal with stealthy attacks, and is knowledgeable at dodging enemies which think they got him with their own strategies and gimmicks. He has already fought a large amount of ants at once when they were powerful enough to hurt him with each attack, and could nimbly dodge them as to not get hit once. Barrages of attacks aren't something he deals with any often, but he has shown enough adaptability to be able to.

"Kouki for versatility, precog, stats amplification and stats debuffing"

His versatility really isn't all that great: he is ultimately a swordsman with sword beams and energy attacks. Killua might actually be more versatile than he is with his assassination techniques and passive resistances, as well as huge stamina to withstand prolongued torture.

His precog can and will be beaten, it is not any crazy Ultra Instinct like thing, actually more low-key than Sharingan and Killua can fool it, surpass it and bypass it through strategy and his skills (like Rhythm Echo).

His stats amplification last several times less than Killua's stamina and aren't enough to stomp (if they were, they would be forbidden anyways). Since Kouki is slower than Killua at base, Killua has an edge.

His stats debuffing is based on hitting an attack. Given Kouki's notorious AP advantage, he wouldn't hit too many attacks in a fight.


Also, I'd like to ask for Superior Dominance to be removed from this fight: a 5x advantage over an opponent equals a stomp in this wiki's language. Whether Limit Break is also equivalent to an AP stomp seems to me debatable (I believe Killua can actually beat it with reasonable ease by just not getting hit and setting up traps to keep damaging and tiring Kouki down).

And to ask people to take out their votes from Kouki. That's a downplay of a character who has been shown able to beat enemies just as overwhelming in power (not to mention smarter) through strategy and skill.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Kouki - 6 (Wok, Gargoyle, CP, Velox, Dragon, Overlord)

Killua - 2 (Mand, Apies)

Morning vote count.

 

[Overlord775]

i'm pretty sure that precog bypasses his illusions, as they seem to be only optical illusion, so they won't fool something like precog

 

[Mand21]

=

This should give a tip to how nimble and good at dodging Killua is, even when overwhelmed or surrounded.

Can you remove the speed equalization and Superior Dominance? Speed Equal is not needed, but a 5x boost on an already physically superior opponent would qualify this as a stomp.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Dragon stated that in-character limit break is done in response to being overwhelmed. So, if Killiua can still kill him or lethally injure him as one of his first moves, especially if the skill gap is that large.

(Edit): As for equalizing Speed, I stated in the brackets OP that I would equalize all the battles as one of the rules. I'd rather stick to that. If I could get numbers on speed I can reconsider it, but the last thing I want to do is invalidate everyone's votes as it stands.

 

[Mand21]

i'm pretty sure that precog bypasses his illusions, as they seem to be only optical illusion, so they won't fool something like precog

That's really not how precog necessarily works at all. Kouki's precog isn't some sixth-sense like shit which feels his presence independently of the five senses and extrapolates from it, but a capacity to foretelll what someone is gonna do from what he can perceive (Like a nerfed-down sharingan, as I said). And even the, the fact Killua can fool aura users with Rhythm Echo should say he most likely ca fool sixth senses and precog. So you're wrong.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

If it isn't already mentioned kouki can fly, (well more like walk on air) and what i said about the hundreds of attacks is something kouki does while in the air, so unless killua can fly, he won't be hitting kouki while kouki stays in the air and spams hundreds of attacks.

Where killua is is irrelevant if kouki just blast the entire area to hell.

Also about his speed, honestly kouki should be supersonic, he is>/= shizuku who is supersonic, they were treated as comparable in their 9-B versions, if anything kouki is stronger.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Celestial stated that in-character limit break is done in response to being overwhelmed. So, if Killiua can still kill him or lethally injure him as one of his first moves, especially if the skill gap is that large.

FIFY

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Overlord Serene mind is an after stories skill, but yea my other points still stand, also forgot kouki has barriers too.

 

[Overlord775]

@Celestial are heaven might and war demon accessible to his 9-B key ?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

War demon no, heaven's might yes just not heaven's might infinite change.

 

[Mand21]

If it isn't already mentioned kouki can fly, (well more like walk on air) and what i said about the hundreds of attacks is something kouki does while in the air, so unless killua can fly, he won't be hitting kouki while kouki stays in the air and spams hundreds of attacks.
Where killua is is irrelevant if kouki just blast the entire area to hell.

Also about his speed, honestly kouki should be supersonic, he is>/= shizuku who is supersonic, they were treated as comparable in their 9-B versions, if anything kouki is stronger.

Oh, that's actually the irrelevant part. Going up in the air takes away any possibility for cover from him, while Killua can dodge and attack, even if with pebbles (if the arena is the Central Park, he might just throw a police car at Kouki, since it won't be completely cut across with mere 9-B AP depending on the angle of the throw). If he goes far above in order to create a rain of attacks, that just makes aimdodging a lot easier, nullifies speed advantages and allows Killua to keep dodging until Kouki drains himelf down, gets hit, falls, gets killed.

Not to mention KIllua can jump extremely high, given his strength.

Being comparable in strength does not give one speed advantages. In anime, Mighty Glacier vs Lightning Bruiser is a pretty common matchup. This one right now is one such case. Not to mention nothing of this helps Kouki if he dies first, which he likely will since Killua has the first stealthy, quick assassination move with a quick illusions-aided followup.

Also, @Dargo, this should give some estimates: because he can fight a Supersonic opponent, Kouki should be at the high ends of Subsonic. Killua, on the other hand, can "casually blitz Peak Humans", which should put him at the lower ends of Subsonic+ (possibly around 220m/s or Mach 0.64 since 220FPS are like the peak human visual proccessing speed). If one is Mach 0.4 and can go up to almost twice the speed of his opponent, that's already a good stat amp, but going Supersonic would make for a speedblitz.

But, yeah, if it's not in character for Kouki to start using Superior Dominance immediately even when overwhelmed, I guess this can be forgiven.

(TL;DR: Killua should win because he attacks first with quite a reasonable chance of killing should Kouki miscalculate his reactions, nearly all of his attacks should be finishers and he has gimmicks, higher Stamina and several auxiliar advantages to counter every apparent advantage Kouki has, is smarter and more skilled and will probably win before he uses his trumps.)

 

[Overlord775]

@Mand kouki is just as skilled as killua, he will have time to limit break

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I am really not going to argue this any further, i have already said my piece.

I am not seeing how killua deals with being bombarded from all angles with 400+ attacks in an instant, added to his precog, flight, sensory abilities which allow him to sense everything around him, years of martial arts training which includes swords arts from both worlds and actually some unarmed martial arts too as the yaegashi style has those as well, his stat debuffing, and self healing.

It's up to the others to decide who wins.

 

[Mand21]

@Mand kouki is just as skilled as killua, he will have time to limit break

He's not. He is not as smart, and while he has great martial arts training, he isn't nearly as combat-smart or versatile in terms of movements (sure he has multiple powers, but they end up being pretty much the same spectrum of swordfighting with aerial attacks).

He is at best similar in the amount of movements he knows for close range fighting (and yet I'd say a gifted boy trained to be a killer and who could already perform excellently at age five or six is superior), not on wits, strategies, knowledge or analytical skills. And his only real defense against assassination is Physical Perception, something Killua should be able to counter through sheer exploring any blunders on Kouki's movements that may be caused by being taken by surprise..

 

[Mand21]

I am really not going to argue this any further, i have already said my piece.
I am not seeing how killua deals with being bombarded from all angles with 400+ attacks in an instant, added to his precog, flight, sensory abilities which allow him to sense everything around him, years of martial arts training which includes swords arts from both worlds and actually some unarmed martial arts too as the yaegashi style has those as well, his stat debuffing, and self healing.

It's up to the others to decide who wins.

Like I said, stat debuffing and self healing aren't gonna do much in a battle that will decide itself in a few blows and Killua is extremely good at dodging stuff and hitkilling. =\ His superior Stamina and the fact he also trained for years (and more intensely, though I'm not sure if for longer or shorter) make him a match for everything else, and add that to his incridible strategical mind...

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Just wanted to say, we still need a vote or two to wrap this one up.

I might post the next battle since this one is close to finishing.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

NEXT ROUND IS UP! Combatants are Scar and Bloodshot.

 

[The_Archdemon]

Kouki FRA

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Kouki - 7 (Wok, Gargoyle, CP, Velox, Dragon, Overlord, TheOwn)

Killua - 2 (Mand, Apies)

Incon -

Grace period begins.

 

[Mand21]

Kouki FRA

You didn't even mention my arguments at all ;-;

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

wrong thread sorry

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Scar FRA, though it does seem really close.

Wrong thread, lol

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Scar FRA, though it does seem really close.

Wrong thread, lol

look it your fault for naming these threads so similarly

The worst part, I'm not even sleep deprived today.

 

[Mand21]

bump

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Adding the battles right now, grace period is over.

Thread can be closed.