9-B Brackets: Round 14

[Dargoo_Faust]

Grace period begins


Kouki - 7 (Phoenix, Apies, CP, 22Easy, Overlord, Monarch, Velox)

Charming - 3 (TheOwn, Crimson, Core)

Incon - 1 (Spino)

 

[fandom_22Easy]

You should never assume votes, but yeah, i'm voting for kouki now.

 

[Mand21]

Wasn't my vote on Charming? What reseted'em? >.>

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Wasn't my vote on Charming? What reseted'em? >.>

I actually have no clue, lol.

My bad, so that's 4-7, I think I'll add the battles in an hour or two.

 

[ZackMoon1234]

Kouki FRA

 

[Mand21]

9 hours have passed since grace began, so aren't 13 hours left?

 

[The_Archdemon]

My bad, so that's 4-7, I think I'll add the battles in an hour or two.

4 and 7 to who, respectively?

Also, about Charming's skill, well, fighting Rumplestiltskin is kind of enough to say his skill far outclasses Kouki's, since Rumple is the Dark One and since he killed an entire squad of soldiers with his bare hands (ok, and with the Dark One dagger, but a dagger against a dozen swords isn't all that useful).

Charming could also fight two Dark Guards (The Evil Queen's elite, her best-trained men, which compose her army) single-handed, and while holding his daughter in his arm. He then forces a wooden door open, while severely wounded, and after that manages to have a quick fight with another two Dark Guards, before falling due to exhaustion. He can bring Dark Guards down far more easily when he's not mentally disturbed or when wearing more than his night-suit, and is far superior to Henry, who, in the same video, defeats a Dark Guard with his bare hands.

BTW, the dragon-beheading thing is this, and this was literally the first time Charming had ever been to a real fight. I guess Kouki's feats are not in this level, in anyway.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

4 and 7 to who, respectively?

4 to 8 now, actually.


Kouki - 8 (Phoenix, Apies, CP, 22Easy, Overlord, Monarch, Velox, Zack)

Charming - 4 (TheOwn, Crimson, Core, Mand)

Incon - 1 (Spino)

 

[Mand21]

5 or 6 hours left on grace or so?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

I don't think it's a grace period when an opponent is rebuffing a debater's point. The debater has to at least respond back on that.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

The whole point of grace period is to allow for opponents a chance to rebuff. Otherwise we would just add it the moment Kouki reached 7 votes

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Monarch Laciel is right.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Yeah, and TheOwn just said the response above. Why are those repping Kouki not defending him in that case?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

They don't need to?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Huh? But this is a debating thread. You can't just ignore someone's points up above and claim this guy wins. One can at least respond with a reason to why those points are invalid or wrong.

Otherwise... we're literally a bunch of FRAers

 

[Overlord775]

@TheOwnMagic

Killing a bunch of fodders isn't a very good skill feat

and about the Dark Guards, do we know how they are trained ? because if not, Kouki would still have the skill advantage, also in the second video he only knocks back one the guards and the dark guard overpowers him, and Henry knocked down a Black Guard with the hilt of his sword, not bare handed

 

[The_Archdemon]

No, Henry was unamerd.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Should I add this now? Grace started over a day ago at this point.

 

[ZackMoon1234]

Should be added if GP has already gone over 1 day

 

[The_Archdemon]

No, Henry was unamerd.

The argument for Kouki's is poor, but ok then. You can do whatever feels better for you.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

A debate is continuing but you'd need more points to prove that Own.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I was asking for an opinion, not announcing that I was adding it.

Jeez.

 

[The_Archdemon]

A debate is continuing but you'd need more points to prove that Own.

Apart from the fact that Charming is not letting Kouki get near him, instead is likely keeping his range and then killing him with a throw-dagger (as he did here. One could argue distance would interfere, but, well, Charming's aim is not trash, you know), we can clearly see that Charming' feats are the only things discussed here. Has Kouki already fought multiple enemies at once? I mean, fightning multiple skilled soldiers is likely better than being trained since seven. Also, defeating two soldiers and a magically enhanced girl in quick succession, being that the literal first time David touched a sword (this scene takes place before his fight with the dragon), is also a better feat, I suppose.

Also, the higer AP thing is likely wrong. As I showed, Charming's 9-B feat is beheading a room-sized dragon. He can also easily break necks (which appears to be a (9-B feat.

 

[Jinsye]

I mean the thing is.

No calc = Baseline assumption, unless scaling is involved.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Also, the higer AP thing is likely wrong. As I showed, Charming's 9-B feat is beheading a room-sized dragon. He can also easily break necks (which appears to be a (9-B feat.

Neck snapping is usually either a very low 9-B or 9-C, it depends on how it's snapped, the situation, if it was casual, etc.

Beheading a room-sized dragon doesn't immediately put him on the higher end of 9-B, or even much higher than breaking a wall. Especially not causing large cracks in the ground. Cutting through < Breaking apart is true for most cases.

Either way, as it stands, both are at baseline due to lack of calcs, and the majority of voters currently agree Kouki is more skilled due to greater training. Training is a pretty important part of combat skill; it would be like comparing a champion martial artist to an experienced street fighter. Charming may have a lot of natural skill, but that won't help when he's facing someone who has refined their own skills, on top of already having a good deal of natural ability.

 

[The_Archdemon]

If you say so

 

[ThrasherEx]

Kouki takes this with a skill and experience advantage, he has been training since he was 7 in armed and unarmed combat, and later on with some of the best swordsmen in the world. Charming could have the natural skill to let him be on par with Kouki in skill, maybe, but he definitely doesn't have the experience that Kouki has.

 

[The_Archdemon]

Just realized that Kouki's 17 years old, and if he's been trained since he was 7, this means he's got 10 years of experience. Really?

Charming is around 1956, and if he begun training wih twenty (which is completely inconsistent, since he was 27 when Emma was born), that gives him around 42 years of experience. Four times Kouki's. Not to mention no feat for Kouki's skill was brought up until the moment. Being trained since young does not immediately cause you to be a god with the sword.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Looks like he had the experience advantage then

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I was already aware of the experience advantage; CP knows much more on Kouki than I and I'm sure they can provide examples of skill. Charming still doesn't have a training advantage. Experience and Training are two very different beasts, and depending on the story the amount of time spent in either isn't really portrayed realistically. However, regardless of the medium, having better techniques can give you an edge in combat even if you are relatively young. Think of training as a tool; if you have calloused hands from trying to punch in a nail, sure, you can do it better than before, but if you have a hammer, you'll do it faster regardless. Also, there is the issue of quantity versus quality; it was stated Kouki studied under the best of his time.

I feel like this is being drawn out more than it should; it doesn't seem like any votes have switched, and Kouki is getting more votes as it stands. I haven't closed it yet even though grace has passed because I wanted to give all the people following this thread a chance to think it over, and I think it's even past that point. Sometimes there needs to be some respectful disagreement over a verdict, in spite of the result.

 

[Mand21]

May I point out that experience is not quantitative but qualitative? It doesn't matter how long you train or fight, but what kind of people you fought, what kind of stuff you can seamlessly deal with.

 

[The_Archdemon]

I disagree, but that's okay, this is named democracy. You may end the match and add it, I guess. Even if the people here are talking too much about skill and experience, while Kouki's not even getting near to Charming, given Standard distance of 4 km

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Standard starting distance is only 4 km if a characters range exceeds that. The greatest range for either character is tens of meters for Kouki.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Standard starting distance is only 4 km if a characters range exceeds that. The greatest range for either character is tens of meters for Kouki.

Added. This can be closed.

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