(9-6-0) 8-B+/Low 8-A Tournament Round 2, Match 2: Tails VS GIGA Queen

[Psychomaster35]

Last time on this tournament, we have finished up Round 1. Now it is Round 2, and today it’s big VS small.

In the blue corner, we have Tails from the Sonic the Hedgehog IDW Comics (nominated by sanicspood), and on the red corner, we have the GIGA Queen from Deltarune (nominated by me).

Since Queen cannot exist outside of her dark world, the battle takes place in an exact replica of the World Martial Arts Tournament located in Cyber World. Tails will have his Tornado, but located 5 meters away from him the moment the match starts. Rest of the match rules in the tournament OP.

Who wins?

Queen gets OUTFOXED: 9 (FantaRin The First, LaserPrecision, Theuser789, TauanVictor, Vizer04, GlaceonGamez471, TheRustyOne, Popted2, CurrySenpai)

Tails becomes POTASSIUM DEFICIENT: 6 (Psychomaster35, GodlyCharmander, The Almighty Wholesome, ShockingPsychic, Livinmeme, Bruhtelho)

Inconclusive:

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Welp, I got to go with Tails on this one, tbh.

Queenie has her soul hax, her large size, danmaku, statistics amplification, and statistics reduction; but I think it pales in comparison to Tails' experience in dealing with large and mechanical opponents via Eggman's machines, his analytical prediction that will allow him to have better chances in dodging Queen's attacks with his genius-level intelligence further backing it up, and the fact that he has hacking and tech manip on his side makes it debatable that he can hack the GIGA queen mecha albeit I am iffy if Tails could actually do it but meh.

Also, Tails has the Tornado as a means of flight and gives him access to flight that isn't on a limit like his flight with his two tails. But am not sure if it'll be a factor or not.

 

[Psychomaster35]

To start off, Tails is 94 tons while GIGA Queen is 120 tons, so GIGA Queen takes the advantage.

So to begin, GIGA Queen constantly tries to not only kick Tails, but to incorporate other moves like her flamethrower, missiles, wheels, acid, and baseballs into her attacks. Tails, being skilled, would probably try to dodge and counter them, but if Queen is unable to attack him at all, this leads her to getting an attack buff while leaving a blue afterimage behind her for the rest of the match, which is sure to catch Tails off guard. Plus, by being able to summon 15-20 clones of herself to go attack Tails, they would either be kicking him around like a tennis ball or diving at him while Tails gets overwhelmed by the many clones. Every time Queen hits Tails, it would damage Tails’ soul, and while it doesn’t oneshot, it would do an extra bit of damage to him due to having no soul resistance. Finally, when she really needs to, Queen would fire her Detachable Hands as a last resort to try to oneshot Tails.

As for the LS, it is noted that Queen threatens to crush Susie (alongside Kris and Ralsei) while she was at 1% of her battery power due to being heavily damaged to a point she could barely move. So, she is pretty much casual. Assuming you want to know her true power, since she only threatens Susie by the force of 903,635.3635 kgf, she can crush Kris, Susie, and Ralsei at 2710906.0905 kgf, and mind you this was casual, so given her statement she was at 1% remaining, multiplying it at 100 means she crushes at 271090609.05 kgf which is enough yo overpower Tails. True, Metal Sonic was also damaged when he did his feat, but at least he was able to still functionally fly so Queen was more damaged.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I agree. Tails is very athletic similar to Sonic and has analytical prediction. Making it possible for Tails to dodge most of GIGA Queen's attacks. Him being small also makes him a harder target.

Tails is also shown like Sonic to cut through giant robots like butter

This could allow Tails despite having an AP disadvantage to penetrate their armor and cause significant damage.

As it's also been noted, Tails is capable of hacking, meaning he could potentially just shut down or take control of GIGA Queen altogether.

You can see him hacking into a large robot created by the extraordinary genius Dr. Eggman here and here. He has also been shown to hack into Eggman's security and was even noted when his systems were sloppily hacked into by another character, that it was too sloppy for Tails, meaning his hacking abilities exceeds another 'hacking' character.

As for the battery power argument from Psychomaster, does their power linearly increase with each percent of battery left? I don't find that to be often in fiction, and I figure we just assume they scale above a certain feat by an unknown amount unless it's stated and clear that someone's 'A' amount of times greater.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Also, Tails has the Tornado as a means of flight and gives him access to flight that isn't on a limit like his flight with his two tails. But am not sure if it'll be a factor or not.

Queen would just fire her detachable hands or homing missiles to blow it up.

As for the hacking, has he ever hacked into outerworldly machinery? And can he really deal with 20 clones of her engaging at him?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Ah, thank you, laser! You just posted the things I wanted to say!

BTW, Psycho. Is Queen's soul hax that of Undertale's soul hax in where it bypasses normal durability (and has the potential to destroy one's soul with enough hits) or does it only make queen's attack hurt more. Am not sure if DR's soul hax is any different than UT's soul hax, so want to know for sure.

 

[Psychomaster35]

It's not any different from Undertale from what is seen. They repeatedly reference and outright attack the SOUL.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

multiplying it at 100 means she crushes at 271090609.05

Ha, no.
1% Battery isn't 1% strength.

Tails is also shown like Sonic to cut through giant robots like butter

This could allow Tails despite having an AP disadvantage to penetrate their armor and cause significant damage.

"Tails can tear through metal, therefore he should be able to do the same to someone with higher durability than his AP",
that's not how that works. GIGA Queen has higher durability than his attack power, her metal is simply stronger, lmao.


These are the corrections I wanted to make, let's go to my opinion on this match.


It's very interesting. It's very notable to say that both have equalized speeds, and Queen is able to move normally despite her large size, so the argument that Tails is smaller falls short, Queen can kick, punch, and dodge just like any other person, so Queen SEVERELY outranges Tails in physical combat, also seemingly having experience in hand-to-hand combat in the form of boxing, as the fight with her is a direct "replica" of "Punch Out!!"

So, yeah, dodging through prediction is not a reliable option, Queen can cross the her body length distance as simultaneously as Tails, so her large size gives her an edge in speed. Plus, Queen has everything Psycho has stated, flamethrowers, missiles, cloning, statistics amplification. Queen herself also has technology manipulation over her own things, so hacking is harder for Tails in this scenario.


So basically, if Tails is capable of dodging her, which is not very likely due to her large size not influencing on her speed - thus outranging - Queen simply gets faster than Tails in the middle of the fight, combining that with clones, and missiles that target the SOUL. In conclusion, Queen outranges, outmatches (in AP), and seems to be more versatile than Tails, so I'd say Queen is most likely the winner here.

 

[LaserPrecision]

"Tails can tear through metal, therefore he should be able to do the same to someone with higher durability than his AP",
that's not how that works. GIGA Queen has higher durability than his attack power, her metal is simply stronger, lmao.

Not quite what I meant. I was stating that the 'sharpness' of his attacks allow him to cut through tougher enemies than usual. Sonic and Tails attack that slice the enemy seems more effective than their normal brute force attacks. Though, I do think it's possible with enough effort/tries to penetrate the armor.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Not quite what I meant. I was stating that the 'sharpness' of his attacks allow him to cut through tougher enemies than usual. Sonic and Tails attack that slice the enemy seems more effective than their normal brute force attacks. Though, I do think it's possible with enough effort/tries to penetrate the armor.

I wouldn't say so, it could just be that the robots are not strong enough to tank it, and he did do it combined with Sonic (aka, combined AP), so yeah.

And for Tails to do that, first, it would be very difficult for him, doubt he'd wouldn't tire himself out if he did it too many times, and second, ge would need to get on the offensive, which... It's not recommended given Queen's abilities, and a smart genius like him knows that.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Hmmm. Tails is quite agile. He and Rouge were able to get behind Eggman without him even noticing in a giant mech of his own

From which he then hacked the machine.

Given his Lifting Strength (is superior), if he were to maneuver around them, latch on, they shouldn't be able to get Tails off as they attempt to hack GIGA Queen. Which given he's done it to the tech of super-genius Eggman should be within possibility (Keep in mind, the machine Eggman's controlling above was shown to immediately take control of other machines as well, such as Gemerl).

I imagine his Tornado could serve useful as well. Because as I mentioned in the first thread, while maybe its default speed is affected by equalized speed, he's suited it with a jet that significantly increases its speed. Meaning using the Tornado would give him an advantage in speed. That should allow him to also stall out for time whilst he attempts to hack them.

That shouldn't take too long as from what we're shown in the comics, it only takes around a minute or so tops before he already wrote could that was able to immediately override Eggman's mech.

I would say it's possibly a game of time. As Tails attempts to stall for time with the Tornado's superior speed (via its boosters he installed) whilst trying to hack into GIGA Queen.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Thee scan above with both Sonic and Tails teaming together doesn't disprove Tails being able to sheer metal like butter, just that the Badnik in question was extremely tougher than a normal one. But since IDW's plot follows the plot of the games, including instances where a Spin Dash buzzsaws through a robot giving Sonic/Shadow/your grandmother/etcetera trouble. Hell, the scan above even proves it. That's just how the Spin Dash works.

All that to say I'm pretty sure Tails tearing through Queen is 100% a viable option, considering the difference between the two in AP is roughly 1.27x.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Thee scan above with both Sonic and Tails teaming together doesn't disprove Tails being able to sheer metal like butter, just that the Badnik in question was extremely tougher than a normal one. But since IDW's plot follows the plot of the games, including instances where a Spin Dash buzzsaws through a robot giving Sonic/Shadow/your grandmother/etcetera trouble. Hell, the scan above even proves it. That's just how the Spin Dash works.

All that to say I'm pretty sure Tails tearing through Queen is 100% a viable option, considering the difference between the two in AP is roughly 1.27x.

Yes, the durability is higher than his AP, so tearing through it "like butter"? Yeah, absolutely not. The badnik's metal is just weaker than Tails' AP, it's as simple as that.

Tails would struggle massively to tear through Queen's metal given it can take 121 Tons attacks without any trouble.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

they shouldn't be able to get Tails off

Cloning, beating him to death, acrobatics, slamming her leg onto something. GIGA Queen is quite agile as well, remember, her large size makes her equalized speed be far more advantageous.

as they attempt to hack GIGA Queen.

This is "magical" technology from another dimension. It doesn't scale to anything based on how smart the character behind the tech is.

If Tails has never hacked magical/outworldly technology, then he won't be able to do so with Queen. Also, Queen's Technology Manipulation hax just hard counters that, she can remotely control her tech

while maybe its default speed is affected by equalized speed, he's suited it with a jet that significantly increases its speed.

Why would a vehicle separated from the character be equalized? Plus, movement with Tornado is way less agile than Tails by himself, and large size is playing a vital part here, Queen can sway

 

[ShakeResounding]

The badnik's metal is just weaker than Tails' AP, it's as simple as that.

If that were the case, they would just... hit it lol. I'll rephrase it since I'm unsure of you understood.

Tails' Spin Dash > Badnik > Tails' regular attacks.

And that's really all there is to it. You would be correct if Tails could meaningfully harm it with his strikes, but he can't. The Spin Dash is explicitly helpful against metal, acting as a much more effective way in dealing with them. It tears apart robots when Tails' AP isn't enough. Why do you think we always see the cast doing it against robots?

 

[Theuser789]

Honestly, Tails should take this, although Queen has her soulhax which could prove troublesome to Tails, he just simply has fought far, far more experienced in beating giant mechs like Queen

IDW shows that game events happened, so we know Tails has fought hundreds of Eggman mechs that can also shoot fire (Hill Top's) boss, enemies that can shoot homing missiles (Eggwalker), plus with the Tornado he has both beaten the Egg Carrier and the Egg Cauldron. Outside of the acid her moveset is just what Tails has fought dozens and dozens of times. If Queen spammed Soulhax like she does normally she would probably take it

 

[GodlyCharmander]

If that were the case, they would just... hit it lol. I'll rephrase it since I'm unsure of you understood.

Tails' Spin Dash > Badnik > Tails' regular attacks.

Not at all. Hitting it is simply not as effective as cutting the robots, as, SHOCKINGLY, punching metal wouldn't bust it open regardless if you have the AP to damage it or not. Metal bends.

"Badnik > Tails' AP" is the purest form of bullshit I've seen. Tails can easily overpower a singular badnik on his own, he has done so multiple times.

His spin dash ALSO doesn't tear to metal of stronger Badniks, so it's just weak. It will not tear through GIGA Queen's metal because she has higher durability, it is simple as that. Either prove Tails can do so to a 121 Ton durability badnik, or give up on the argument.

Detail: This is the exact same model used to say Spin Dash can tear through "any" metal. On his own, Tails can barely do it, and you say he'd do that to GIGA Queen? Absolutely not. Unless you provide actual evidence of Tails damaging metal of the same caliber of Queen's, this is simply not happening

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Honestly, Tails should take this, although Queen has her soulhax which could prove troublesome to Tails, he just simply has fought far, far more experienced in beating giant mechs like Queen.

Experience being your sole argument is really weird to me. Yes, he has fought with fire and missile users before, sure, but how exactly would he deal with GIGA Queen's normalized speed despite her Large Size? Cloning? Acrobatics? Outranging? This is on top of Soul Hax, btw.

 

[Theuser789]

Experience being your sole argument is really weird to me. Yes, he has fought with fire and missile users before, sure, but how exactly would he deal with GIGA Queen's normalized speed despite her Large Size? Cloning? Acrobatics? Outranging? This is on top of Soul Hax, btw.

It's experience and skill. The main reason it's because Tails simply has beaten other "GIGA Queen's" before. Large size? Almost every Eggman mech is gigantic. Cloning? In the previous arc Tails straight up fought three Egg Vipers. Acrobatics? Tails has been doing that since 1992 (game events are canon to IDW). Outranging? Multiple Eggman robots outrange him. The resistance fought dozens of skyscrapper Death Egg robots just before the comic started, we even see characters comparable to Tails fight em in the comic. Plus Queen is likely to understimate Tails versus the contrary

 

[ShakeResounding]

Snip

1. I never said it can tear through any metal, so the quotation mark on that as if I said it is just a strawman.

2. When I said "Badnik > Tails' AP", I meant the Super Badnik. Which you just proved, because A) Tails hitting it simply knock it off-balance rather than doing any damage (He's whacking it mainly with his tail, you can legit see it) and B) That isn't Tails attempting to actually cut into the thing (see A). So moot points there.

3. Your post is dropping with so much sarcasm and 16-year-old-like attitude that I could shower in it. Go outside and take a breather, maybe hug a puppy, play with me on Destiny 2 or something

And this is without me mentioning that Tails has seen literally everything in Queen's arsenal and THEN some. Anything Queen does, he's seen. The sole issue will be Soul hax here tbh, and MAYBE duplication should Tails let himself get cornered (which is unlikely).

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

This is close but I think Queen takes this more times than not. Sure Tails is experienced with someone like Queen but experience and intelligence only help him so much against someone like Queen who has an AP advantage, Large Size, Duplication, numerous danmaku projectiles, flamethrowers, etc doubled with all her attacks directly harming the soul. Plus Tails technology manipulation and hacking is almost useless here because Queen controls her own technology with technology manipulation and has technology that Tails probably couldn’t even manipulate in the first place due to hers being not only magic but from The Dark World, a dimension all in its own.

Overall, it’s only a matter of time until Tails gets hit with numerous punches, kicks, projectiles, etc that he can’t predict in time due to her spontaneous danmaku like projectiles. Plus I think if he let himself get hit by her duplication attack, he would be pretty done for. Tails could only dodge and use his intelligence and experience to exploit Queen’s attacks for so long until he gets hit.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Sure Tails is experienced with someone like Queen but experience and intelligence only help him so much against someone like Queen who has an AP advantage,

Most of Tails' fights have him at an AP disadvantage. And a larger disadvantage to boot, considering how he's often been stacked up against those like Knuckles, Omega (who's physically the strongest in the cast), and Shadow.

Large Size

Faced it and those taller

Duplication

Faced it

Numerous danmaku projectiles

Faced it (in the form of several Badniks in different directions armed with guns)

Has flamethrowers

Faced it. Do you see the issue? Sometimes experience DOES give a character a big advantage.

doubled with all her attacks directly harming the soul.

That's really Tails' only problem, but it isn't a one-hit KO. Tails is already a cautious fighter, resorting to fleeing temporarily if necessary. One hit would be all it takes to make it a priority in Tails' mind to not be hit at all.

plus Tails technology manipulation and hacking is almost useless here because Queen controls her own technology with technology manipulation and has technology that Tails probably couldn’t even manipulate in the first place due to hers being not only magic but from The Dark World, a dimension all in its own.

I agree Queen controlling her own technology will probably hard-counter Tails hacking her, but Tails can hack Eggman's equipment that is far more complex than the technology Queen could be made of due to Eggman literally creating machinery that disobeyss spatial and physical laws What really stops Tails is the magic.

Overall, it’s only a matter of time until Tails gets hit with numerous punches, kicks, projectiles, etc that he can’t predict in time due to her spontaneous danmaku like projectiles. Plus I think if he let himself get hit by her duplication attack, he would be pretty done for.

Except Queen really has no meaningful way of hitting him to begin with. Her combat experience is already extremely shoddy by comparison, but its insult to injury when you actually stack them up against each other. From Eggman, to Emerl, to Shadow and Omega, Tails has literally beat better versions of Queen herself.

Tails could only dodge and use his intelligence and experience to exploit Queen’s attacks for so long until he gets hit.

Being nearly as agile and skilled (though not quite) as Sonic will make sure that, at least for an extended period, it won't happen.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Wait, if Tails Tornado isn't speed isn't equalized (based on this

Why would a vehicle separated from the character be equalized? Plus, movement with Tornado is way less agile than Tails by himself, and large size is playing a vital part here, Queen can sway

wouldn't that mean Tails has a huge speed advantage? Isn't the Tornado like really fast, to a point, it's quicker to take the Tornado from place to place than fly there instead. The same Tornado that had thrusters installed that only further increases the speed to an even crazier degree? Wouldn't that allow Tails to easily outspeed anything in GIGA Queen's arsenal? Assuming the speed isn't equalized, I imagine it would scale to Tails own speed (High Hypersonic vs Supersonic)?

 

[Psychomaster35]

Speed is equalized to every transportation including vehicles UNLESS you have a speed amp

Attack speed isn’t equalized since it wouldn’t make sense for a gun to move at the same speed at a person as if it was extremely slow, so that would mean Queen punches and kicks faster than Tails could move

Finally, Tails doesn’t seem to start on his Tornado, he would have to first get inside of it but Queen would kick his Tornado away thanks to her faster attack speed.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Voting Queen but with extreme difficulty. Tails can't hack the mech due to it being controlled by Queen herself, and will have trouble with Soul Manip/Danmaku.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Do people actually read the reasoning of the Sonic supporters?

 

[Livinmeme]

Do people actually read the reasoning of the Sonic supporters?

no

 

[Psychomaster35]

One thing I have noticed: haven’t the characters Tails scale to blitz the badniks? With speed equalized, and the fact Queen is always taking several steps back during her fight with Thrash Machine as evident by the buildings moving closer to the screen, Tails essentially can’t reach her unless he gets into the Tornado and jets up to her, but Queen would just destroy the Tornado before Tails could get inside of it.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I was under the assumptions Tails started seated inside the Tornado or at the very least right next to it. If he doesn't, I don't think he gets to use it even close to its full extent if it just 'spawns' next to the enemy and they can destroy it before he reaches it. At that point, we may as well have restricted it. Not sure how it really works though (In terms of where it is when the match starts)

 

[Theuser789]

One thing I have noticed: haven’t the characters Tails scale to blitz the badniks?

Nope, Tails has fought many of Eggman robots that scale to him or outpace him like Queen does

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Let me be pretty clear here.

"He has dealt with these hax before" isn't an argument.

I know it's hard for you people, but you have to actually express and elaborate on how EXACLY Tails would deal with the hax, and a much larger Mecha that also moves at normal human-sized speeds, also fighting three robots isn't a counter for tens of clones, nor does it counter Statistics Amplification that would make Queen faster and even stronger. The reasoning of the Sonic Supporters is either been addressed (hacking, agility), or NON EXISTENT ("Experience = Auto-Win").
Either elaborate, or your points are simply not reliable at all, you're not convincing the opposition like that.

Are the votes being counted, btw? I believe it's 3 for Tails, and 2 for Queen.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I've been waiting for this!

... Okay, now more serious stuff; has it been addressed if Tails can simply use his technology and manipulation genius-level intelligence to hack into GIGA Queen and render it useless or just do something to make it easier for him. While the Queen is a darkner and the GIGA Queen mech is pretty weird when compared to normal mecha, there isn't evidence that says it is too alien to be hacked or be understood by Tails or that it is too magical to be considered technology (even if it is from the dark world)

While I will now agree that Tails probably won't be able to win if he fights conventionally (I.E fighting the queen with only his physical capabilities and speed like sonic), I now think Tails' hacking and technology manipulation are his best (and only) win conditions with his Analytical Prediction, experience, and skill being the things that he can use to last long to try those win conditions.

... Also, GIGA Queen doesn't have resistance to hacking and/or technology manipulation so that's another thing going for Tails.

 

[Peppersalt43]

"He has dealt with these hax before" isn't an argument.

Watch as the Sasuke supporters do this to Helmed Horror next round

 

[Theuser789]

I've been waiting for this!

... Okay, now more serious stuff; has it been addressed if Tails can simply use his technology and manipulation genius-level intelligence to hack into GIGA Queen and render it useless or just do something to make it easier for him. While the Queen is a darkner and the GIGA Queen mech is pretty weird when compared to normal mecha, there isn't evidence that says it is too alien to be hacked or be understood by Tails or that it is too magical to be considered technology (even if it is from the dark world)

While I will now agree that Tails probably won't be able to win if he fights conventionally (I.E fighting the queen with only his physical capabilities and speed like sonic), I now think Tails' hacking and technology manipulation are his best (and only) win conditions with his Analytical Prediction, experience, and skill being the things that he can use to last long to try those win conditions.

... Also, GIGA Queen doesn't have resistance to hacking and/or technology manipulation so that's another thing going for Tails.

There's also the fact that the Sonic series has a shitton of alien and magical technology as well, like everything to do with the Black Arms, the Lost Hex technology, Gizoids, Old Equidna technology, anything involving the emeralds, etc., and we know things like Emerl happened in IDW thanks to Gemerl's existence. Heck, I think last arc in IDW Tails built shit that countered the Zeti's powers even

 

[Popted2]

question what is the Tornado on Tails Standard equipment?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

question what is the Tornado on Tails Standard equipment?

Plane

 

[Popted2]

Plane

what a lame name for a vehicle

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Blame Sega for that.

 

[Psychomaster35]

what a lame name for a vehicle

That isn’t lame. It even has a Mark 2

Anyways, as I see this, in order for Tails to hack GIGA Queen, he would first have to reach her. His Tornado is the only option but Queen is more likely to destroy it just before Tails could enter and start the engine. After all, the distance is 25 meters and her leg length is literally half the distance she needs to travel, so this is pretty quick. Afterwards, she keeps her distance via constantly backing away throughout the entire fight while Tails has to run towards her and avoid her attacks. But when she summons her 15, maybe 25 clones, it would likely be over for him.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I've been waiting for this!

... Okay, now more serious stuff; has it been addressed if Tails can simply use his technology and manipulation genius-level intelligence to hack into GIGA Queen and render it useless or just do something to make it easier for him. While the Queen is a darkner and the GIGA Queen mech is pretty weird when compared to normal mecha, there isn't evidence that says it is too alien to be hacked or be understood by Tails or that it is too magical to be considered technology (even if it is from the dark world)

I might concede on that, but again, wouldn't her Technology Manipulation just hard counter Tails' hacking? She can still control it with hax regardless. Also, yeah, as Psycho said, reaching GIGA Queen is very difficult given her size and speed.