8-B Tournament Semifinals: Kamen Rider Ixa vs Gene

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I almost forgot to added the images in the OP phew

 

[BERRIES555]

He's gonna feel a pull on his armor and weapon but Nago could pull back and try to stand his ground.

Sol Flasher's located on his shoulder, it hitting the chest wont do anything.

 

[Armorchompy]

Ah, I misunderstood the scan.

Honestly are you sure the candela statement is usable? Cause that's like, High 6-A levels of energy or something.

 

[BERRIES555]

I mean, candela is just a measurement of light. I don't think you can convert light to force.

 

[Armorchompy]

You can, there was a pretty controversial calc for Steven Universe that relied on illumination, but the issue with it was that it was inconsistent with the result. I don't know how to do those but I can look into it, do you want me to try?

 

[Nicetoderp]

Honestly considering it's on his chest there's a chance Gene even manages to break it before it gets used, after all that's one of the spots where he's gonna be punching the most.

Considering it take hit from people way stronger than Ixa, as in, a shit ton of beating to almost death door and the armor doesn't even suffer a scratch? Highly unlike that Gene can do it. The only time I remembered the armor being broken at all during the series is when he faced Fangire King...who is 5-A.

 

[BERRIES555]

You can, there was a pretty controversial calc for Steven Universe that relied on illumination, but the issue with it was that it was inconsistent with the result. I don't know how to do those but I can look into it, do you want me to try?

I mean, if you want sure. But I think it won't matter due to people being comparable to Nago only being blinded by the Sol Flasher.

 

[BERRIES555]

Considering it take hit from people way stronger than Ixa, as in, a shit ton of beating to almost death door and the armor doesn't even suffer a scratch? Highly unlike that Gene can do it. The only time I remembered the armor being broken at all during the series is when he faced Fangire King...who is 5-A.

I mean, it was Ixa Rising, so Nago's armor wouldn't be 5-A

 

[BERRIES555]

You can, there was a pretty controversial calc for Steven Universe that relied on illumination, but the issue with it was that it was inconsistent with the result. I don't know how to do those but I can look into it, do you want me to try?

Also, since the calc was controversial, people wouldn't agree with it right? I would see it as the same as the Sol Flasher

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean, if you want sure. But I think it won't matter due to people being comparable to Nago only being blinded by the Sol Flasher.

Then he either scales to it or the statement is an outlier

 

[Armorchompy]

Also, since the calc was controversial, people wouldn't agree with it right? I would see it as the same as the Sol Flasher

The issue was that it was for a 4-B attack that destroyed a single planet or something like that. But like, if 3mil candelas is an outlier then clearly the light is less bright than that. Which would make sense cause candelas are lumen over area, it would make no sense for something to emit X candelas and not lumen

 

[BERRIES555]

I mean, Even if it’s an outlier, it can still blind people which is it’s main purpose

 

[Armorchompy]

scan

I might be misunderstanding since it's auto-translated but here it says it causes blindness against monsters with a weakness to light or if you look directly at it, which implies you'd be fine if you turned or closed your eyes.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Never trust anything that auto-translated

 

[BERRIES555]

It’s just that Fangires, the monsters that Nago fights, are weak to light. Not only that, they just pop off whenever Nago wants them too, also, even if you close your eyes, light can still shine through a person’s eye lids, so a light which can blind people should still blind them even if they close their eyes.

 

[Armorchompy]

It’s just that Fangires, the monsters that Nago fights, are weak to light. Not only that, they just pop off whenever Nago wants them too, also, even if you close your eyes, light can still shine through a person’s eye lids, so a light which can blind people should still blind them even if they close their eyes.

Yeah but it filters out most of it lol. If it's only ever seen working against beings that are weak to light it shouldn't be assumed to work as well on normal people, let alone when their eyes are closed lol

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I mean with how high the candela Sol Flasher had, i fail to see why it can't be applied to the normal peoples

It simple: normal peoples got ultra blinded by Sol Flasher, Fangire got ultra blinded with 2x of power due of their weakness to light

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean with how high the candela Sol Flasher had, i fail to see why it can't be applied to the normal peoples

If it actually did have that intensity it would probably set the surroundings on fire every time it was used or something, so I don't think it should be taken at face value

 

[BERRIES555]

I mean, like I said before, I still think the Sol Flasher’s property of blinding people still be counted, since it actually made Rook (An elite Fangires) blind. It’s also worth nothing that Rook wasn’t even weak to light, he could stand in broad daylight like any other human. Most Fangires can actually, I believe the reason why they say Fangires are weak to light is because they’re basically Kiva’s equivalent to vampires

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean, you can stand in daylight and still be a little more susceptible to bright flashes than the average adult male. I'm sure it would still do a number on a human if you looked at it directly but you should be fine if you look away/close your eyes.

 

[BERRIES555]

I honestly don’t remember the Fangires being affected by the sun, like, at all. The Sol Flasher could make people blind even when they’re a few meters away from Nago, so even be away or closing your eyes shouldn’t be affective

 

[MagiSinbad]

Yeah but it filters out most of it lol. If it's only ever seen working against beings that are weak to light it shouldn't be assumed to work as well on normal people, let alone when their eyes are closed lol

Technically, it's opposite, the description of the Sol Flasher say it would blind the normal peoples with the intensity of the light, it's just work better on fangires who hate lights.

From the original japanese description :

常人が直視すれば一発で失明に及ぶほどの強烈なフラッシングは、光を嫌うファンガイアにとってはひとたまりもない
If normal peoples look directly at it, it would cause them to goes blind with the intensity of the flasher. Because the fangires hates light, they wont stand a chance against this.

Source

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean I'm sure it would work on normal people, but only if you look directly at it. Gene's probably gonna be looking at Ixa as a whole so that would slightly lessen the effects so I don't think the blindness would last for long.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

You know its funny that here in this match, we had an actual and progressive arguments and its intense (in good way)

Meanwhile in Optimus vs Snake match.....

 

[MagiSinbad]

I mean I'm sure it would work on normal people, but only if you look directly at it. Gene's probably gonna be looking at Ixa as a whole so that would slightly lessen the effects so I don't think the blindness would last for long.

The Sol Flasher is actually an surprise element so Ixa can get a clear cut with his finisher. So when Ixa uses it, it is when he see it's the best time to make Gene goes blind, and when that happen, the following after is the finisher he usually uses to one-shot and destroys the enemies' soul.

And what do you mean Gene would not looking at Ixa directly ? Does he usually fights with his eyes closed ?

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean if he's looking at Ixa he's gonna look at his weapon, which as I understand is on the other arm.

Also I don't think being blinded necessarily prevents Gene from backflipping away from Ixa as he regains his vision. Dude's got really good on-the-spot thinking, with all the various grapples and special moves he can break out of in God Hand.

 

[MagiSinbad]

I mean if he's looking at Ixa he's gonna look at his weapon, which as I understand is on the other arm.

Now this is the part i dont understand, if Ixa gonna point the Ixa-calibur directly at Gene, why does it matter if it's on the other arm ?

Also I don't think being blinded necessarily prevents Gene from backflipping away from Ixa as he regains his vision. Dude's got really good on-the-spot thinking, with all the various grapples and special moves he can break out of in God Hand.

It's permanent blindness, so Gene's vision is gone for the rest of the fight. And what come after Sol Flasher is Ixa's finisher, Ixa usually stunt the opponent for a split second with the Sol Flasher suprise element and strike directly at the opponent with his finisher, so if Gene still want to charge on (in blindness), what he will receive is Ixa's finisher strike directly at him.

 

[Armorchompy]

Now this is the part i dont understand, if Ixa gonna point the Ixa-calibur directly at Gene, why does it matter if it's on the other arm ?

Cause if he's looking a couple degrees away from it then he's not looking directly at it and the effect is greatly lessened.

It's permanent blindness, so Gene's vision is gone for the rest of the fight.

Hold on, it's permanent blindness against monsters susceptible to light. Actually, is it ever shown to be that outside of the candela statement?

And what come after Sol Flasher is Ixa's finisher, Ixa usually stunt the opponent for a split second with the Sol Flasher suprise element and strike directly at the opponent with his finisher, so if Gene still want to charge on (in blindness), what he will receive is Ixa's finisher strike directly at him

Actually going back to the finisher thing, I'm still not really sold on Ixa actually using it so soon, from my limited experience with this kind of show characters typically have at least a bit of a fight before that and only use it to take out weakened foes. So far we've talked just about Sol Flasher, but I think we should be talking about what comes before that, because right now I haven't seen much that makes me think Ixa would ever have the advantage before that. In fact since his stamina is just a generic High Gene could very well manage to KO him before he thinks of using it.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

You know its funny that here in this match, we had an actual and progressive arguments and its intense (in good way)

Meanwhile in Optimus vs Snake match.....

The next time I do a tournament, I'm gonna make sure to check the profiles carefully. And I'm leaving it at 16 characters. No more, no less.

 

[Armorchompy]

Honestly props to you for taking the tournament this far, if it was me I'd have given up three matches in

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Honestly props to you for taking the tournament this far, if it was me I'd have given up three matches in

I guess I have a good amount of patience?

But for real, I gotta make sure the characters are okay to use, and I'll definitely need help from the people choosing them.

 

[MagiSinbad]

Cause if he's looking a couple degrees away from it then he's not looking directly at it and the effect is greatly lessened.

The time when Ixa activate the Sol Flasher is when he deem to be perfect to blind Gene, so chance is high when Ixa uses the Sol Flasher, it's already the time when Gene already got best look at it. Not to mention the first fight where Ixa do his finisher, the Frog Fangire tries to cover his eyes with his hands, still the same result, he got blinded by Sol Flasher and got strike down by Ixa's finisher.

Hold on, it's permanent blindness against monsters susceptible to light.

It's permanent blindness against normal people, more effective to fangires who hate light.

Actually, is it ever shown to be that outside of the candela statement?

Nope, because the fangires who see it are dead right after that, because they got destroyed by Ixa's finisher (Which one-shotted them)

Actually going back to the finisher thing, I'm still not really sold on Ixa actually using it so soon, from my limited experience with this kind of show characters typically have at least a bit of a fight before that and only use it to take out weakened foes.

Kamen Riders use their finisher whenever they feel it's best time to do it, it's doesnt neccessary to be the later parts of the battle.
In fact, alot of Kamen Riders uses their finisher from the start, it's mostly just when they deem it's perfect timing to one-shot the enemies. This is Ixa we are talking about, he literally pull off his finisher when it's about 2 minutes into the fight

And it's depend, finishing the weakened foes do happen, but not actually neccessary. Kiva literally uses it to finish off an enemy who is still healthy and didnt take much damages

In fact since his stamina is just a generic High Gene could very well manage to KO him before he thinks of using it.

Stamina is about endurance of the long fight. Why would it matter in KOing opponent ? Isnt that depend on AP ?
And how many tons is Gene's AP ? I put his Joules AP into the converting calculator and got the result of 18 tons, while Ixa is 47 tons (multiplied by 30x by the Ixa Generator)

 

[BERRIES555]

I may be wrong, don’t remember much from Kiva, but Rook did look at the Sol Flasher but survived the attack. Although, he was blind permanently until Ixa killed him in their second fight

 

[MagiSinbad]

I may be wrong, don’t remember much from Kiva, but Rook did look at the Sol Flasher but survived the attack. Although, he was blind permanently until Ixa killed him in their second fight

really ? I dont remember Rook has got hit Sol Flasher before. I remember Rook got killed by Ixa's broken fang and regenated later to be striked down again by Ixa's finisher.

 

[BERRIES555]

I don’t know if it was Rook or not, but I do remember Ixa fighting someone who got hit by the Sol Flasher and was blinded but survive the finisher. But the Fangire remained blind until his death.

 

[IxaSaga2]

It might be Bishop cause he had white pupils.

 

[BERRIES555]

Oh yeah you’re right, I’m talking about Bishop

 

[Armorchompy]

The time when Ixa activate the Sol Flasher is when he deem to be perfect to blind Gene, so chance is high when Ixa uses the Sol Flasher, it's already the time when Gene already got best look at it. Not to mention the first fight where Ixa do his finisher, the Frog Fangire tries to cover his eyes with his hands, still the same result, he got blinded by Sol Flasher and got strike down by Ixa's finisher.
It's permanent blindness against normal people, more effective to fangires who hate light.

Does it actually ever permanently blind normal people? Cause if it does that only against the monsters, then that should not apply to humans. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that on a sunny day, people cannot actually be permanently blinded by light no matter how bright. Of course it's fiction so that might change but idk if that should be the go-to if it's not shown to do that against humans. Probably doesn't matter anyway, being blinded for a few hours would be just as deadly.

That said, blindness from bright light comes from retinal damage I think, which Gene might be able to heal with his healing moves, so Sol Flasher might not be a game winner although it's definitely a huge advantage.

Nope, because the fangires who see it are dead right after that, because they got destroyed by Ixa's finisher (Which one-shotted them)

Kamen Riders use their finisher whenever they feel it's best time to do it, it's doesnt neccessary to be the later parts of the battle.
In fact, alot of Kamen Riders uses their finisher from the start, it's mostly just when they deem it's perfect timing to one-shot the enemies. This is Ixa we are talking about, he literally pull off his finisher when it's about 2 minutes into the fight

And it's depend, finishing the weakened foes do happen, but not actually neccessary. Kiva literally uses it to finish off an enemy who is still healthy and didnt take much damages

If it depends then it depends, so we shouldn't be going by "Ixa uses his finisher 2 minutes into the fight GG", at least not reliably. Also that's like, a different dude.

There's also Gene's taunts, with Grovel makes himself look pathetic and enemies tend to underestimate or go easy on him, while with his regular taunt he pisses them off and has a tendency make them a little more berserk and irrational. Obviously it's not magic, it has its limits, but it might tip the edges a little differently in the beginning of the fight.

Stamina is about endurance of the long fight. Why would it matter in KOing opponent ? Isnt that depend on AP ?

Being able to handle damage is a big part too, durability just helps suffer less of that damage in the first place but stuff like poise, sheer resistance to pain and ability to lessen the blows you suffer help weather the storm too.

And how many tons is Gene's AP ? I put his Joules AP into the converting calculator and got the result of 18 tons, while Ixa is 47 tons (multiplied by 30x by the Ixa Generator)

Upscales from 18.8 since he can beat demons stronger than the one he fought and can tank that, has access to stronger attacks than he did before and becomes much stronger upon releasing his God Hand, so probably not too far from Ixa's level once he does that but it varies among his attacks, and Gene typically fights people stronger than him anyway.

Either way Gene typically throws out a lot of attacks at once so while a single punch would definitely not KO Ixa a whole combo of head blows with a nutshot in the middle after sweeping him off his feet with a low kick finished off by a super powerful special move might get a little closer. If you let him play his game Gene can basically ragdoll you infinitely with his attacks, in fact literally every single enemy in God Hand has a built-in combo breaker specifically for that reason lol.

Also, fun fact, Gene has fought a super sentai parody in his own game, so technically he already has experience with tokusatsu. Doesn't really help him in this fight tho.

 

[MagiSinbad]

Does it actually ever permanently blind normal people? Cause if it does that only against the monsters, then that should not apply to humans. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that on a sunny day, people cannot actually be permanently blinded by light no matter how bright.

Ixa have only fight against fangires, never a normal civilians. And the official description given by official company directly states it blind the normal peoples, then i dont see how we can go against that by applying the real-world logic, this is fiction after all.

That said, blindness from bright light comes from retinal damage I think, which Gene might be able to heal with his healing moves, so Sol Flasher might not be a game winner although it's definitely a huge advantage.

Sol Flasher isnt a game winner, the finisher come after that is. While i dont doubt that Gene could heal his retinal damages through healing, but the Sol Flasher is still a surprise element to making opening for Ixa's deadly finisher.

If it depends then it depends, so we shouldn't be going by "Ixa uses his finisher 2 minutes into the fight GG", at least not reliably. Also that's like, a different dude.

My apologies for didnt make it clear on the reply above. When i said "it's depend", it is to reply to your comment on "from my limited experience with this kind of show characters typically have at least a bit of a fight before that and only use it to take out weakened foes."
That is just me replying about how Kamen Riders in general dont have to uses finisher when the opponent is in near-death state or something like that.

The "Ixa uses his finisher after 2 minutes into the fights" is legit tho, i was mentioning about Ixa's second fight where he uses his finisher very quickly (it's literally 2 minutes). That said, given how Nago (Ixa) dont like wasting time in the fights, this is pretty much still in-character for him.

There's also Gene's taunts, with Grovel makes himself look pathetic and enemies tend to underestimate or go easy on him, while with his regular taunt he pisses them off and has a tendency make them a little more berserk and irrational. Obviously it's not magic, it has its limits, but it might tip the edges a little differently in the beginning of the fight.

Can you give me some sample of dialouge he uses to taunt peoples ? Depend on what it is (Or how childish it is), it's might not work on Nago. Furthermore, they dont have prior knowledges of each other, so Gene might not know the correct taunt to get on Nago's temper.

Being able to handle damage is a big part too, durability just helps suffer less of that damage in the first place but stuff like poise, sheer resistance to pain and ability to lessen the blows you suffer help weather the storm too.

so what you are mentioning are cheap damages (AKA the small damages to tear down the opponent's defense and stamina bit by bit). Ixa also experienced in doing cheap damages as well with his gun that shoot hundred of bullets to reduces the stamina of the opponents (Then the finisher come right after once the opponent's movement become sluggish).

Upscales from 18.8 since he can beat demons stronger than the one he fought and can tank that, has access to stronger attacks than he did before and becomes much stronger upon releasing his God Hand, so probably not too far from Ixa's level once he does that but it varies among his attacks, and Gene typically fights people stronger than him anyway.

Are there anyway to know how much upscale is Gene compares to 18.8 tons opponents ? Or are there rules regarding the upscales AP ?
Because saying it's simply "stronger" is kinda vague, and i remember most of characters upscales from the weaker feats still get their AP fixed at the upscaled AP ?

If that is the case then it's gonna be hard for Gene to do any kind of cheap damages, or having enough power to stunt Ixa with his barrage of combo breakers, because Ixa is stronger than Gene's APx2. Meanwhile, Ixa's cheap damages gonna be... really painful to Gene (Or perhap even to the point we can call them "heavy damages" to Gene ? )

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

You know this is getting long with nobody ever voting yet, c'mon folks don't make it staling for too long because both side having fun debating lel