5th strongest 7-A Bracket Round 6 (Arcueid Brunestud vs Berserker (Arjuna Alter))

[Makkurona]

>Arc can actually forcibly reconnect to either the moon or Earth from within a reality marble or bounded field iirc and Void Shiki wouldn't lose connection to the root from just a simple bounded field or reality marble

Araya with his near level RM blocked the Counter Force from interfering at all. And that is just near, not an actual RM. an RM is just bring you to one's own world and you are completely cut off from the World. Arcueid blown off white White Len's. But White Len is like real weak, and who knows if someone at least at the level of Emiya or above him would do.

>Yes Amaterasu is one of the most powerful since she is the deification of the Sun, in other words the Sun as a god rather than just a god of the Sun. Unlike Amaterasu these two fall into the category of, gods of something, they don't actually represent the Sun but were instead attributed the role of God of the Sun by worshipers.Gods like Shiva are also in the category of, 'spirits that became gods through worship' iirc. Gods in that category are weaker than ones like Amaterasu and Mesopotamian gods that already existed before being worshiped like Ea.

How can a god that literally destroys universes as his job being weaker than Amaterasu and Mesopotamian gods? For Saver, sure he is but even then he is still at universal level authority. Shiva is literally the force of universal destruction. If Amaterasu, the god of sun comes into existence before being worshipped, then a god like Shiva, who is the god of universe's destruction, should be the same. From where you find that Shiva is a such? The two gods categories said about gods that were already were, and those who reborn as gods, like Saver, Heracles, etc. Shiva was always a god in the first place, how can be he is anything else but that?


>Yes her authority afaik is the conceptual boost and nerf. However higher authority resists what those of lower authority do, as seen when Arc nopes the mooncell, K&K nopes the mooncell, Amaterasu nopes the time axis etc.

Then how can Shiva's, that is to destroy the universe, would be weaker to Arc's that only comes as back up from the planet? Just as comparison, BB's, which is the Mother Goddess's authority to create all creations, basically matched or maybe even outmtached the sword Ea's authority itself, without Origin Mystic Code help.

>That statment was referring to the weakness of her amps. She becomes stronger than her opponent yes, but someone like Gil who has a variety of weapons she doesn't resist yet and doesn't actually fight physically would be a poor match for her.

And why i put Gil as comparison is because Altjuna also has numerous abilities and divine weapons, though ofc not much as Gil.

 

[Paul_Frank]

>Araya with his near level RM blocked the Counter Force from interfering at all.

No Araya's workshop was approaching the level of True Magic and so did his bounded field within the workshop. A reality marble is significantly weaker than this

>RM is just bring you to one's own world and you are completely cut off from the World.

A reality marble is actually just projecting your own inner world outside and overwritting the suroundings. It doesn't completly cut one off from the world besides a few of them like ORT's

>Arcueid blown off white White Len's. But White Len is like real weak, and who knows if someone at least at the level of Emiya or above him would do.

White Len should be significantly more skilled in magecraft than Emiya especially consideing her connection to TATARI

>How can a god that literally destroys universes as his job being weaker than Amaterasu and Mesopotamian gods?

Because by Nasu rules thats how it works, the gods that existed and had power before being given power by worship are superior in strength and authority

>For Saver, sure he is but even then he is still at universal level authority Shiva is literally the force of universal destruction.

Yes which is why he scales high in the Hindu pantheon

>If Amaterasu, the god of sun comes into existence before being worshipped, then a god like Shiva, who is the god of universe's destruction, should be the same.

The thing is, nothing states this and it's implied that only extremely old gods like the Mesopotamian ones, the first Earth Mother Goddess and Nasu's fox lady were gods from the start.

>The two gods categories said about gods that were already were, and those who reborn as gods, like Saver, Heracles, etc. Shiva was always a god in the first place, how can be he is anything else but that?

There are no statements that say he was orignally a force or a being before godhood so that's why I'm not sure, yes he is high in the pantheon but no part of the Hindu pantheon afaik are stated to have already existed as forces or objects with sentience, power and personality before being a god

>Then how can Shiva's, that is to destroy the universe, would be weaker to Arc's that only comes as back up from the planet?

Because the type of authority isn't what matters it's their level of authority relative to eachother that matters, the mooncell's type of authority would be stronger than K&K's which is just to reduce damage and effects however the level of authority backing it superceded the mooncell, same thing happened with Arc.

>Just as comparison, BB's, which is the Mother Goddess's authority to create all creations, basically matched or maybe even outmtached the sword Ea's authority itself, without Origin Mystic Code help

BB also had more than just Earth Mother Goddess authority though which helped her out

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

Arc FRA

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

My vote is still on Arc.

 

[DontTalkDT]

That's 3 for Arc, 1 for Arj then?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Arc: Me, Paul, Knight, Upgrade

Arjuna: Iapitus

 

[Ionliosite]

Arc FRA

 

[ZackMoon1234]

ARC FRA

 

[Hun_Tiandi]

That statement from Gil in CCC about there being two types of gods talks about:

1. Things that were always there and became nature gods (Mesopotamia) or aliens (Greek) that might have done the same. Some gods of Mesopotamia are also implied to be aliens, but it's not clear yet. I have no idea how being cited as an example made them the sole exceptions.

2. Those that were reborn as gods. The gods from other mythos were not rebor as such, this would instead be talking about the Gorgon sisters who were deified from human perception, or those who were deified after death like Kagetora, Heracles and Karna.

The gods who Sefar fought were all gods of the first category. Since they all represented nature concepts, they were hardcountered by the White Titan who couldn't be hurt by any attack with a concept behind it. Also it supposedly had an advantage against them, by extension of the fact that it also had an advantage against the world.

The big founding/destruction god that initially came to be known as Shiva would be whatever Golden Face was around the time, because he is her daddy. Shiva and Izanagi are syncretized in the Nasuverse. From the entry on Vajra, it has been known since the days of FSN that Hindu gods were the originals that later came to be known through different names under Buddhism and Shintoism. And then with Raikou, Ushi and Mushashi, the syncretism keeps growing strong.

Hindu/Buddhist/Shinto gods are probably also aliens with Tamamo saying Amaterasu is a Great Majestic Spirit from the universe and Hokusai chanting the mantra of Amenominakanushi and Cthulhu at the same time.

OT: I vote for Arc on Earth where she gets to be the most special. Godjuna wins anywhere else.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Arc isn't limited by location with her abilities, also her abilities effect those born on Earth, or their origin are from earth. Also, her conceptual statistic reduction can be applied by a variety of methods. I planned on doing a CRT about her, bit all the nasuverse thingies that happened had me kind of put it off.

 

[DontTalkDT]

That's 7 votes then.

Since it's 1 o'clock her, and I will probably be needed when debating Vandalieu, I will wait with posting the next match until sometime tomorrow.

 

[Hun_Tiandi]

Arc isn't limited by location with her abilities, also her abilities effect those born on Earth, or their origin are from earth.

I was talking about her backup from the counterforce, which is limited by the location and the origins of the thing or being she is fighting against. Arjuna can be dated to the Earth, but can the same be said of the entire pantheon inside him? Not so sure about that. Then move the fight in LB4 and we might find a reverse situation. I'd also be interested to see what would happen if you throw her in a True Ether environment where the Gods of mythos lived as the former Prime Ones. She's considered above the remnant Divine Spirits, but not above the old Prime ones that already left the world 600 years prior to Crimson moon responding to the call. Much less in their own home turf.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

The pantheon is automatically dated as younger than Gaia unless they have statements saying otherwise. Everyone older than the World was specifically stated to be as such or logically can't be anything else.

 

[Hun_Tiandi]

By saying Arjuna can be dated to the Earth, I am saying he finds his origins there which is required for backup thing to work, but the same cannot be said for the Hindu/Buddhist/Shinto gods like with the Greek/Roman ones. Why is there a need to be older than Gaia for that?

 

[Makkurona]

Just update. Same vote as Hun here for same reason

 

[DontTalkDT]

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