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5th strongest 7-A Bracket Round 7 (Vandalieu vs Caster (Merlin))

Soooo... to start with getting basic info:

1. How good is Merlins Mind Resistance?

2. Gimme the juicy details of Merlins Biological Resistance.

3. Is there anything not on Merlins profile I should know about? Like higher tiered abilities not metioned?
 
1. Planetary or higher from chaos tides for each of his avatars, 6-D for his true self since Avalon blocks all interference below the 6th dimension

2. Also planetary from chaos tides or higher, I remember someone said something about it being planetary x every cell

3. He should have 6-C attacks with the holy sword, other than that Garden of Avalon bypasses durability by causing the target to burst upon breathing the air
 
1. Planetary in which terms? Description of the feat details might be useful.

2. Ok, but which feat is behind that? There are many kinds of bilogical manipulation. E.g. depending on what it is a spell that drains all water from the targets body might be resisted or might not be resisted. A few more details would be nice.

3. Since that clearly is a tier issue I would quite frankly ignore it as it's not on the profile. The bursting is due to too much mana?
 
1. I'm not sure what you mean? Planetary as in affects the entire planet.

2. Chaos tides use Biological Manip and changes whatever they touch into monsters like those that are fought in the Babylonia singularity. It fundamentally changes their form, and even down to their spirit origin, makes them into one of Tiamat's children.

3. It is kinda on the page, his attack section links to Caliburn. I think so, there is too much mana located in the reverse side so anyone who breathes the air there pops.
 
1. I take it this comes from resisting the chaos tide, which from the bit of information I have is basically flooding the planet with brainwashing mud?

2. Ok, good to know.

3. Then he should have the tier listed. For all I know only the weaker keys of Caliburn are useable to him or a lower output or whatever. Things are debated by the profile and by the profile he doesn't have that tier. (Not that it awfully matters, but still)

Ok, that is a non-factor for mister "I have literally more mana than the gods and can channel arbitrary amounts of it".
 
1. Correct Tiamat's sea of life floods the entire planet with brainwashing mud and haxes them

3. Welcome to fate profiles

Merlin also has his disarming presence thing, idk if Valndalieu resists it.
 
3. Unless it's some ultra-powerful special thing he resists it.

1. Don't think the planetary is sign of potency here then.

It's basically "I have pumped a room with 1000 people in it full of sleeping gas and all fell asleep, therefore my sleeping gas must be 1000 times more powerful than normal one". Doesn't really work like that.

And resisting it would at that be "I have been exposed to 0.1% of sleeping gas that in total put down 1000 people, therefore I must have resistance equal to 1000 people together".

In general, when it comes to the spread of brainwashing substances the amount of affected individuals doesn't really relate to the potency IMO.
 
3. It empathic manip that makes anyone who is near him just not want to fight and works on servants and stuff too

1. I mean, that's how we treat mindhax though, person X mindhaxes an entire planet thus when they use their mindhax on someone it's planetary potency

An argument could be made for the mindhax being 2-A as well since it comes from the authority of Tiamat
 
What were the explanations for the Sea of Life? Because if they are anything like Angra's mud then its 6 billion people minimum.
 
1. That depends heavily on the method.

E.g. someone that mindhax's by showing people some spiral and then gets the idea to transmit it over TV to mind control an entire country doesn't really get stronger mind hax from that.

Someone that mind controls an entire country by reaching out in his mind and supressing those of everyone else does.

As usual mechanics have to be considered.

I doubt 2-A without clear proof. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and all that.

3. Yeah, gets resisted. Vandalieu has multiple resistances/immunities against mind affecting stuff, even including a rather special kind of resistance in the Grotesque Mind skill.
 
1. Fair enough, but I'm pretty sure that being able to mindhax the entire planet at once would still translate to potency, at the least its above 6 billion scaling from Angra

The 2-A would come from the fact that the Sea of Life is Tiamat's authority which scales to the rest of the god tier's authorities like BB
 
The mud being produced by it Ôëá it being 2-A itself, though. I mean, you basically claim that every servant has 2-A mindhax resistance, if I correlate statements correctly, which should have some very solid proof.

To be honest, make a CRT on it and get that explanation added, otherwise I don't buy that.


It would not scale to potency under this circumstances, for reasons I have explained.

What is the Angra thing about?
 
Two win cons.

1. Mind hax. How? You know type 3 Madness Manipulation? Vandalieu has a mindhax skill that does basically that. He can create things, do actions or certain sounds that when percieved by others have mind manipulating effects on them. Since Merlin has perception of the things going on in the fight, he will be exposed to that. Where Van's other skills fail in range Merlin provides the range on his own.

The entire thing goes through 10+ levels of mind resistance and increases the longer you have perception, so you need some really good resistance to endure it.

It is also perfectly in character for Van to do that. It isn't the first time someone attempted to pull Merlin's strategy on him.

2. Disease. That's why I asked of the nature of Merlins biological resistance. Since his bilogical resistance is against being transformed into a monster he has no resistance against illnesses listed.

So what Vandalieu can do (and is in character for him) is to spread his bio-weapon throughout the fighting area. Since any avatar Merlin sends dies the moment it enters the fighting area Vandalieu wins via incapacitation / BFR.
 
Merlin would just spawn his avatars outside of range, and he can use him memory manip which is stated to work by wiping his memory from everyone that knows him. He doesn't like doing this, so it would be a last resort. Merlin can also just go straight into Vandalieu's dream and incap him. He pulled that off on Tiamat, a 2-A, mind you.

Also, is his biological weapon supernatural in nature?
 
1. That would possibly incap the avatar if we say it's above his resistance but it wouldn't affect actual Merlin because of 6-D shenanigans

2. Magic resist should cover that since there is magecraft that gives diseases in the form of witchcraft and various curses, in addition I'm pretty sure all servants should resist disease manip partially due to not actually having or needing internal systems, but eh
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
Merlin would just spawn his avatars outside of range, and he can use him memory manip which is stated to work by wiping his memory from everyone that knows him. He doesn't like doing this, so it would be a last resort. Merlin can also just go straight into Vandalieu's dream and incap him. He pulled that off on Tiamat, a 2-A, mind you.
Also, is his biological weapon supernatural in nature?
Click to expand...
If his avatar permanently stays off the battlefield, then he is BFR'd. So he has to approach.

Vandalieu resists memory manip.

Assuming Vandalieu is dreaming, which he probably wouldn't do. It's also a good way for Merlin to grow insane. A bunch of mental demons once took a look at Vandalieu's mind from a distance and ran away crying. It is a quite scary place.

Can do both.
 
Paul Frank said:
1. That would possibly incap the avatar if we say it's above his resistance but it wouldn't affect actual Merlin because of 6-D shenanigans
2. Magic resist should cover that since there is magecraft that gives diseases in the form of witchcraft and various curses, in addition I'm pretty sure all servants should resist disease manip partially due to not actually having or needing internal systems, but eh
Click to expand...
1. No, because Vandalieu doesn't transmit any power to that place or anything. As said, the effort is bringing the effect to Merlin is done by Merlin spectating the battlefield.

2. Nah. Not to mention that Van's diseases have rapid self-evolution that nullifies prior immunities within seconds.
 
Was the 6D stuff accepted? Don't want to be that guy, but higher D stuff needs to be very explicit with being superior to lower ones if you want it accepted.
 
6-D has been accepted and on the page for a while now

1.Merlin in Avalon isn't spectating though afaik mostly because he can't he just sends avatars to do stuff

2. Why would magic resistance not cover it if it already covers other techniques that give diseases? The self evolution wouldnt help because if magic resistance covers it, he is never affected by the diseases to begin with
 
If its supernatural, then magic resist probably covers it. If it isn't, then it doesn't work because it lacks the mystery to harm servants
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
If its supernatural, then magic resist probably covers it. If it isn't, then it doesn't work because it lacks the mystery to harm servants
Click to expand...
Something with sufficient mystery behind its creation works. Fairly sure that applies here.

And given that a mundane paper knife wielded by a servant can damage other servants, I'm pretty sure an illness wielded by the demon king meets that requirement regardless.
 
Paul Frank said:
6-D has been accepted and on the page for a while now
1.Merlin in Avalon isn't spectating though afaik mostly because he can't he just sends avatars to do stuff

2. Why would magic resistance not cover it if it already covers other techniques that give diseases? The self evolution wouldnt help because if magic resistance covers it, he is never affected by the diseases to begin with
Click to expand...
1. If he didn't he wouldn't know what is going on and when to send another avatar and the new avatar would know nothing that the prior avatar did. He definitely in some way has perception on the world.

I mean, Vandalieu also has passive mind control aura that goes through a few levels of mind resistance, so if he doesn't resist all his avatars get passively mind controlled.

2. Because it isn't uniquely supernatural. Being unaffected by the first type of disease, wouldn't mean that the disease doesn't evolve to circumvent it.
 
1. I'm pretty sure there is something the avatars being dreams or something but I dont remember.

2. Magic resistance wouldnt just make him unaffected by the first disease it completely nullifies it ever being used on him. Magic resistance is both powernull and resistance, it even says that it cancels spells used on the target in the description on pages with the skill.
 
What's the point of putting fate characters into the tournament?

Even if they lost, they get 3rd place by virtue of having the potential to punch up superior to the others, which is how the 5 are decided before everything else (least ABC logic destroys the whole thing).

They would also get a blanket role for each one because their haxes aren't always equally effective against higher tiers (going immeasurable against 2-As ain't helping much at all.) so making them fight each other for roles is also useless.
 
So, what its the current outcome of the fight here? Inconclusive or Fate?
 
To write a short note: I have an exam tomorrow, hence I'm not around today. Will get back to this / continue the bracket tomorrow.
 
So... if no-one is going to contest Ricsi's post, why do we keep fate characters in the bracket?

They get a place regardless of them winning and loosing, and they all occupy one place so.
 
Paul Frank said:
1. I'm pretty sure there is something the avatars being dreams or something but I dont remember.
2. Magic resistance wouldnt just make him unaffected by the first disease it completely nullifies it ever being used on him. Magic resistance is both powernull and resistance, it even says that it cancels spells used on the target in the description on pages with the skill.
Click to expand...
1. Ok, the point being...? If they are his dreams he has perception via his dreams.

2. Pretty sure it doesn't null a spell not directly targeted at him from what I have seen of Fate. It wouldn't stop Vandalieu from creating pathogens and neither would it stop the Pathogens around him from evolving.

Ricsi-viragosi said:
What's the point of putting fate characters into the tournament?

Even if they lost, they get 3rd place by virtue of having the potential to punch up superior to the others, which is how the 5 are decided before everything else (least ABC logic destroys the whole thing).

They would also get a blanket role for each one because their haxes aren't always equally effective against higher tiers (going immeasurable against 2-As ain't helping much at all.) so making them fight each other for roles is also useless.
Click to expand...
Sooo.... I should kick them out of the bracket, because Fate in total gets one of the first 4 spots in 7-A or do I understand that wrong?
 
What would happen to those matches where they won? The one that was supposed to lose go ahead or should they be remade with another character?
 
I guess we add them to the Fate characters profile and then move those who lost forward in their place.

Kazuradrop is already going up against Aleister and Kumoko, not to mention she already stomped Machina, and stomps a good few of the 7-A Masada bois (not all of them, obviously). It kinda makes the presence of fate characters in the tournament unnecessary since they can only have 1 spot in 7-A
 
DontTalkDT said:
Sooo.... I should kick them out of the bracket, because Fate in total gets one of the first 4 spots in 7-A or do I understand that wrong?
Click to expand...
Yeah. They kind of don't need to fight for it, so they are just taking away the chance from others for no reason.

It's like having the winner sport team fight for second and third place.
 
Hmm... anyone against doing this?

If everyone is in agreement I will modify the bracket accordingly.

Since we had one Fate vs Fate match we would have an extra spot free...
 
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