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I agree, 2-C SSJB Gogeta should be legitimate
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2-C Dragon Ball Super upgrade
- Thread starter FluffyCreatureZ
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The low 2-C half way feat applyed to all GoDs
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I said "I see no issue with possibly especially if the gap is big like this, at least is the lower cap but they can possibly be at 2-C as well, it's logical."
I already replied to this. "I disagree, I actually think Broly's statement is pretty reliable, first off Goku knows how strong Beerus is from fighting jiren who's even stronger, second "probably" means "almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell" so this means Goku was pretty confident about his claim, Broly scales like jiren but a little lower, so I still think his tier stays the same as "At least low 2-C" and since Jiren scales very similar, I feel a compromise would be giving sign 3 goku, broly and jiren all "At least universe+, possibly low multiverse", possibly because it's only a scaling chain but "stronger" implies that someone can win decisively so there is evidence but it isn't very strong hence "possibly"."
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Yes I know, that's why I was asking and clarifying some points, since I don't have any problem with the power scales here.
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That depends if staff agrees that a scaling chain like that would apply for a possibly 2-C
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It was never said that Jiren was stronger than beerus, it was only said that Jiren was stronger than his god of destruction in "Destructive Power", and we don't even know if the real power of bills is the same as Belmod's.
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Well these things are true, I can say truly they aren't relevant because even the weakest GoD scales to the mid point low 2-C thing
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As I said before, I have no problem with the gods of destruction being Low 2-C... I'm just clarifying small dialogues that have nothing to do with the tier.
Vietthai96
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We don't even know the max power of GoD in general, those so called stronger than GoDs could be very well retcon in the future, even the half 2-C feat could be retcon as well. Until the max level of GoDs is properly show, scaling through statement will not end well, at best Gogeta could have a possibly 2-C, other than that Goku and Jiren still a big NO
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Vietthai96
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There are no such a thing called weakest GoDs, they are equal
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That the 12 gods are "Equal" would be very strange, it is obvious that within them there must be one stronger than another even on a small scale, but better to leave them all equal in power.
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Well I it is true, I do believe our current scaling will be retconed at like 60%-70% chance with the remaining 30%-40% having berrus get off his laziness and train to stay ahead of goku and vegeta for the story to continue, however, the scaling as it is now is indeed the scaling as it is now, perhaps the ratings could change but I feel not using them because of that is disingenuous.
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OK...
In this video, whis states that Jiren is stronger than belmod and belmod is stronger than beerus and beerus doesn't deny, although it's at arm wrestling, also goku SURPASSED beerus in the TOP so???
Vietthai96
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1. The three GoDs fight before ToP would be equal as they have feat shown, and the fish GoDs who don't feel like participating would be also equal to the other 3.
2. Small scale different in power doesn't mean anything worthy unless the power gap lead to one-sided beatdown of opponent, so small scale power gap don't matter as they "roundly" equal to each other. This is not the era of DB and early DBZ where those small scale power level gap could lead to a beatdown
Vietthai96
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Whis is make fun of Beerus, as we could hear his tone, and Beerus just being pissed off, take that joking comment serious is a very faulty argument.
And even then if Belmod stronger than Beerus because of that match, do we even know when the match happen, if it is a long time ago, Beerus could very well close his gap with Belmod
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I mean like- the actually point of that post is completely unaffected /:
Edit: I just ment either way were starting from the same point for scaling- halfway low 2-C
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You see when whis said there was a god stronger than Beerus even Beerus mentioned it was only in an arm wrestling match and nothing more. Meaning if anything belmod is physically stronger than Beerus and that’s it. Power and skill wise Beerus might still be the top god in the anime like he is in the manga. Same with Jiren. We know Jiren is stronger than belmod but even toppo himself sayss “by the way, based on combat skill alone”. So belmod could be stronger than Jiren in raw power but we don’t know yet. There really isn’t any evidence accept one claim by whis that was debunked by Beerus himself. The only other evidence we have of any god being stronger than the other is the manga where Beerus is obviously implied and portrayed to be the strongest of all the gods. Also it wouldn’t make sense for belmod to be more powerful than Beerus if belmod is weaker than full power Jiren (not even limit breaker Jiren just full power) and MUI goku was only hinted to MAYBE have surpassed Beerus.
Vietthai96
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Even in the manga beerus is not strongest at all, at the start he have advantage because of his incomplete UI, later he got beatdown like everyone else and other GoDs was shown that they holding back
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Yeah, I guess I got carried away in that comment.... Exactly it was thanks to the incomplete UI, but in the same way beerus has managed to use it before the other gods, even knowing that beerus only spends his time sleeping, lazing around and without training, gives to understand the true potential of beerus.
Vietthai96
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Well we don't even know that Beerus is lazy or not, on-screen he seem lazy, but it is not like we always see him, he could be very well, training off-screen
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Well, at the moment I go by what is shown and what Whis says.... That beerus only spends his time sleeping and lazing around and doesn't exercise his role as GoD.
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I mean that's rather speculative, and being lazy is like, one of beerus's house cat jokes? I don't think there going to completely ditch that
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Beerus neither confirms or denys whis' claim and BTW whis was speaking, facts about jiren, so he would also be saying the truth about beerus being weaker than belmod. Also you're just assuming beerus got stronger with no evidence, if he did then he'd refute whis' claim but he doesn't.
My top comment applies to you as well, even if only at arm wrestling it still shows that belmod is superior to beerus in some way and claiming that beerus might be superior still is an assumption and head canon. And Jiren is literally stated ad nauseum to be stronger than belmod or the GoDs in general which includes beerus, don't bring in the manga it's scaling has nothing to do with the anime, in fact it's a bad call since belmod almost killed all the GoDs in one attack lmao and acted defeated for the rest of the match after tanking a full power move from another GoD.
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Thinking about all this some more...I think Vie has a point. Only jiren's strongest state should actually apply to that "having more destructive power then the God of destruction" thing, and only Stomping/ beating one tier of opponent shouldn't apply for the 2 fold increase without outside context (like the guides) but they Honestly probably won't be accepted and written off for the times that it dosen't work, so that leaves Gogeta with the SSBKK20 on his profile and stomping broly who is well above that halfway low 2-C mark. IF SSBKK20 stays on his profile, I see no way he couldn't be rated 2-C
Edit: but for everyone else? The guide book is the only augment, and I said my piece on it
Edit: but for everyone else? The guide book is the only augment, and I said my piece on it
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- #547
Bruh full power jiren is stated ad nauseum to be on the level of or even superior to the GoDs, he's literally stated verbatim to be stronger than belmod holy shit. Then you got MUI goku stomping his ass which I've proven requires at least 2x your opponents ki, MUI goku, hidden power jiren and gogeta are definitely 2-C man.
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that's proven with the guidebook, and I said my piece on that, if you can get that through all the counterdictions that are brought up against it I will be impressed
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- #549
counterdictions? I think you mean contradictions right? Well I debunked most of them while speaking with bluudymanikin and he was convinced. You can read it up or bring them here and I'll respond.
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When dealing with the DB franchise, there will be more, I don't really know them, but there probably there, we can only wait and see what will be brought up
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Ok I'll bring up some proofs of my claims gohan stomps cell with 2x difference, gohan losing to cell at half power but obliterating him at full power, goku stomping hit in kaioken 10x but not one shotting, Goku overpowering vegeta with less than a 2x difference yet not killing him proving that it's not a contradiction, Goku shitstomping nappa with KK 2x and nappa having PL of 4000 while goku in 10x has 10000 which is more than 2x proving my point etc etc.
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Well that's good, such evidence will definitely be needed, without the guide book statements being accepted jiren and Uitra instinct wouldn't be 2-C to any compacity, maybe you can do it we'll have to wait and see.
I'm still holding onto Kioken for Gogeta Honestly
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BTW that 2x statement comes directly from the daizenshuu, which is approved by akira toriyama, and is on the DB wiki and is basically the DB encyclopedia, and I supported in the show as well, easily proof for 2-C blue gogeta plus goku and jiren as well.
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Okay, let's summarize
Are we in agreement that Son Goku (Ultra Instinct), Jiren (Burning Ultimate Warrior) and Gogeta (Super Saiyan Blue) are 2-C, because of them stomping (which requires at least a 2x difference) "At least Low 2-C" characters?
And are we in agreement that Son Goku (Ultra Instinct -Sign- 3), Jiren (Full Power) and Broly (Full Power Super Saiyan) remain the same? Although the addition for "possibly 2-C" possibly would come through
Actually, there was a Naruto upgrade from 5-C to Low 5-B that was being proposed, because of some 5-C characters being really close to Low 5-B, but it never went through. Basically, it was for the same reasons as the latter's 3 characters upgrade to "possibly 2-C", so I don't see it going through
Are we in agreement that Son Goku (Ultra Instinct), Jiren (Burning Ultimate Warrior) and Gogeta (Super Saiyan Blue) are 2-C, because of them stomping (which requires at least a 2x difference) "At least Low 2-C" characters?
And are we in agreement that Son Goku (Ultra Instinct -Sign- 3), Jiren (Full Power) and Broly (Full Power Super Saiyan) remain the same? Although the addition for "possibly 2-C" possibly would come through
Actually, there was a Naruto upgrade from 5-C to Low 5-B that was being proposed, because of some 5-C characters being really close to Low 5-B, but it never went through. Basically, it was for the same reasons as the latter's 3 characters upgrade to "possibly 2-C", so I don't see it going through
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- #555
yeah
I'll wait to see what everyone thinks.
hm, even though it seems logical I guess I'll see.
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As I said, depending on if the guide book statements was accepted by the staff's evaluation/the impending argument
I maintain that I think kioken should be enough, if it dosen't come up here I'll probably make some other thread more specifically about it
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None of the last three characters can use Kaiõken (I know Goku can, but not in this state)
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OP, you should also add the justifications I made for the 2-C characters (well, that's if you agree with them)
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I had missunderstood you, sorry about that, no I wasn't for those 3 getting it i realize now who you mean
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- #560
The current justifications are totally fine, the justifications don't change it's just they're taken to the next tier.
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