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This is actually useless without staff input.
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2-C Dragon Ball Super upgrade
- Thread starter FluffyCreatureZ
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Well, we might as well be on the same page with eachother before bithering the staff with what would otherwise be different sides arguing
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- #603
I agree, I also agree with the toppo thing but I want to see what others think first.
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Remember, simply being stronger than another character in DB doesn’t mean it’s a 2x difference. The only reason the 2x thing is even accepted is because of stomps, which is different from simply being stronger. If Toppo is accepted as At least Low 2-C, then Vegeta SSJBE would just be higher into the same rating
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- #605
Oh yeah that's true, vegeta doesn't stomp, so he probably isn't 2x stronger than toppo since he was challenged pretty well by him.
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Also, simply being a GoD candidate isn’t enough proof for being comparable in power, as this statement alone doesn’t have any good context behind it. A candidate is someone who is likely to receive a particular fate. In DB’s context, being a candidate simply means you qualify for potentially being a GoD in the future, nothing more, nothing good enough for any sort of rating
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The 2x didn't come from fighting him, but completely overpowering his hakai ball and nullifying it, which is according to the daizenshu requires you to output 2x the attack that you are overpowering/nullifying
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Ah yes because being the candidate for the next god of destruction of a universe who has a god of destruction that Is in the same tier as beerus, stated to be a god of destruction in his transformation, having the mind set of a destroyer, the abilities which only a destroyer has is not enough
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- #609
That's true but he would be at least low 2-C in his GoD form which is him literally becoming a GoD.
You can still deflect or nullify ki attacks from opponents of comparable strength, and ki attacks' PL can be altered to have a weaer or stronger PL than the user, it's shown that both fighters are comparable but vegeta is stronger a little, he would need to obliterate toppo to be 2x stronger.
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Yep, that’s right, simply being a candidate is just not good proof, he just has the abilities of a GoD from what we’ve seen. Hell, even being stated to transcend time and space isn’t good enough for higher dimensional existence or immeasurable speed. The point is, the wiki wants solid proof, and a lot of it at that
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You are right, but base gogeta would probably scale above ssbe and ssbkk20 so all gogeta is needed to do here is use kk2
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Ah yes,
In order to be comparable to one you need the abilities of one, stated to be one, stated to be a candidate to one, and have the mindset of a god...oh wait he has all if these requirements
because being the candidate absolutely doesn't mean that you are comparable to the current god, being stated to be a god, gave the mindset of a god, the abilities of a god, having your transformation "god of destruction Toppo" absolutely doesn't indicate that you are a god.
In order to be comparable to one you need the abilities of one, stated to be one, stated to be a candidate to one, and have the mindset of a god...oh wait he has all if these requirements
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Sure, but is there any solid proof he actually is as powerful as one? All we have is he has the abilities and is a candidate, which on their own isn’t solid enough
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- #614
Yeah I forgot to mention that and I realized it after I wrote that first comment, Broly and gogeta ARE effected, SSJ gogeta and regular SSJ broly are both really high into 2-C with this, SSB goku + SSB vegeta < Base gogeta < 2-C <= Gogeta 20x < 50x gogeta = SSJ gogeta = SSJ broly.
He did become a GoD not just a candidate.
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Just transforming into one does not equal being equal in power to them, literally all GoDs are different in terms of strength
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Nope, I only have the evidence that says he became a god of destruction, stated to be a suitable replacement d a candidate for someone who may or may not be stronger than beerus, has only the abilities and mindset of a god.
Did I mentioned he was stated to become one and his transformation literally stats that he is indeed a God of destruction
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Say what? I really didn't know that the gods are different from each other.
And he was stated to be one, in term of strength, in term of mindset, an shave the basic requirement which is the hakai and God ki, be comparable and suitable to be one, and stated to be a God Of Destruction.
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- #618
But all GoDs also scale to at least low 2-C.
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Being a suitable replacement doesn’t mean you have to be exactly as powerful as the one you’re replacing, still not good enough
it would help a lot if you showed a scan where it says he’s comparable to one in strength
Same rating does not mean absolute equality in strength
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He’s already low 2-C
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I posted the scans way earlier, and I said comparable not exactly the same.
And same rating it does, he was stated to be a god of destruction, has powers and mindset of one, be a suitable candidate and all the gods are low 2-C
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Oh yeah, because having energy identical to a GoD’s is 100% confirmation for comparable strength. You know Dragon Ball characters can feel the sensation in energy, whether it feels positive or negative. They’re most likely comparing the energy to a GoD’s energy, which has a destructive sensation
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I really don't know man, stating to be A GOD OF DESTRUCTION isn't enough, Having hakai which is exclusive to GODS OF DESTRUCTION isn't enough bring the next candidate for U11 GOD OF DESTRUCTION which should absolutely scale to belmod, being weaker, sane or stronger is left to interpretation.
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- #625
ou said earlier all GoDs have different strength yet they all scale to at least low 2-C, what makes toppo an exception?
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You can be stronger than a another character that’s in the same tier, but not be completely equal to them
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He just has the abilities of the GoDs without further context
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- #628
So then why isn't toppo half 2-C?
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Oh you mean the other context of being candidate, having the same mindset as one and stated to be a god of destruction ?
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I would agree only if there was good enough context regarding whether it applies to his strength
Every piece of context that was given regarding Toppo’s strength actually being comparable to a GoD doesn’t seem to be around here
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Energy identical to a God of destruction
The energy only belongs to a God of destruction
A candidate for being the god of destruction for u11 which mean he scares to belmod, being weaker, stronger of same doesn't really matter that much.
It's called the birth of a god of destruction
Stating he has the same mindset of a god of destruction
Stated to be no duffrent than a god of destruction
Narrator stated that he threw everything to become a god of destruction
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I did mention that they could be talking about the sensation of the energy, since characters in DB can sense intent. So there’s nothing certain
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- #633
Okay, Toppo became an actual GoD, all GoDs coming straight from you have varying strength yet all get the same tier (at least universe+ aka half 2-C) for scaling to whis' statement that 2 GoDs fighting destroy 2 universes, so this means toppo scales to the GoDs, I'm asking you why toppo doesn't scale if there's nothing that says he doesn't?
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So the only point you could've talked about is the energy which is blatantly stated that only gods of destruction has.
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- #636
well hold on a minute there, there needs to be a general consensus first, I want to see other arguments before I edited this into the OP.
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Every scan about Toppo here is still vague. Simply having the same energy is too vague for a strength rating
i still don’t see how simply being a GoD candidate, or even a GoD at that, 100% means he’s comparable in strength
Lol, good luck getting this accepted
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Are you actually listening to yourself? Every statement is vague? He has the hakai which is exclusive to the gods is vague? Yet it's proven to be true as in the anime, only gods have it.
He has the mindset of a destroyer is vague? Wrong since gods themselves thinks of destruction, they don't have morals.
Stated to be a god is vague? Wrong, he has the abilities and energy that is exclusive to GoDs, he is stated to be a god by belmod and the narrator, he is the next candidate for being a God which means his abilities, strength are comparable to that of a god of destruction.
Please by all means, tell me which statement is vague
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- #640
Not really, he's stated multiple times by reliable sources including the episode title and narrator to have become a GoD, has energy only GoDs have, and he's title is hakashin toppo lol.
Because of whis' statement which he would scale to, just like every other GoD. This simple fact that all GoDs scale to whis' feat debunks the "they can be GoDs with different strength argument".
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