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2-A Game Sonic CRT: "It's that easy"

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Eseseso said:
2. I wonder who would win: Hyper Sonic, or Super Shadow without limiters, considering for the latter that his limiters make him at least dozens of times stronger than before (since he went in base from matching Mephiles to one-shotting dozens of Mephiles clones at once)
Click to expand...
1. settle that in a thread if you like
2. with the pages now updated other options rise up, so have fun with it.
 
Eseseso said:
1. Wow, this thread was so peaceful and fun I'm kinda sad that it's over.

2. I wonder who would win: Hyper Sonic, or Super Shadow without limiters, considering for the latter that his limiters make him at least dozens of times stronger than before (since he went in base from matching Mephiles to one-shotting dozens of Mephiles clones at once)
Click to expand...
Hyper neg diffs. Hyper = 7 Super Emeralds, 1 depowered Super Emerald can trigger Super form = 7 Chaos Emeralds.
 
JED said:
Hyper neg diffs. Hyper = 7 Super Emeralds, 1 depowered Super Emerald can trigger Super form = 7 Chaos Emeralds.
Click to expand...
So Hyper Sonic is >> 7x Super Sonic, but Super Shadow w/o limit rings scales to >> Dozens of Super Shadow level people (since it shouldn't be different from his base).

Seems even to me.
 
JED said:
Hyper neg diffs. Hyper = 7 Super Emeralds, 1 depowered Super Emerald can trigger Super form = 7 Chaos Emeralds.
Click to expand...
I’m still trying to find where one depowered super Emerald created Super Sonic, you can’t get to Doomsday zone without super Sonic and you can’t unlock SS without the 7 regular Emeralds, and you can’t access Doomsday zone once you turn your Chaos Emeralds into depowered super emeralds, so I don’t think there’s a point where you can get to Doomsday with an incomplete Emerald set without level select codes. I know it exists in Archie but can’t find it in 3K.
 
Eseseso said:
but Super Shadow w/o limit rings scales to >> Dozens of Super Shadow level people (since it shouldn't be different from his base).
Click to expand...
Don't think Shadows w/o his limiters is as much as a boost as the Super Emeralds, sure he can easily dispatch dozens of people on his level at once but to do that he only needs to be able to one shot one of them and have the range to hit the others at the same time and I don't think we can safely say that the one shot gap in this case is on par with the Super Emerald amp.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Don't think Shadows w/o his limiters is as much as a boost as the Super Emeralds, sure he can easily dispatch dozens of people on his level at once but to do that he only needs to be able to one shot one of them and have the range to hit the others at the same time and I don't think we can safely say that the one shot gap in this case is on par with the Super Emerald amp.
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I saw that scene, he was going through like 5 clones per second with that change of his.
 
Yeah? Unless those clones have some weird power that combines their durability when they're close to each other Shadow only needed to be strong enough to one shot a single clone with his AOE letting him reach and the other clones to also one shot them.
 
JJSliderman said:
“Without level select”.

I imagine you finished the game without going into the big Super Emerald ring, beat Doomsday zone, and then got the cutscene in Hidden Palace offscreen. I feel like I shouldn’t have to explain why using a level select is pure game mechanics.
Click to expand...
I'm uploading another video utilizing an incomplete save this time to settle any doubts. I'll post it here when it's done uploading
 
Eseseso said:
So Hyper Sonic is >> 7x Super Sonic, but Super Shadow w/o limit rings scales to >> Dozens of Super Shadow level people (since it shouldn't be different from his base).

Seems even to me.
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Hyper Sonic is actually 7 infinities over Super Sonic, since each super emerald has all 7 chaos emeralds which have infinite energy. Plus, Super Shadow without limiters isn't a set multiplier, the boost can be significant to base shadow, but Super Shadow is infinitely stronger thus the increment in power might not be to scale.
 
GlaceonGamez471 said:


Timestamps in description in case you don't wanna sit through the whole of a near 23 minute video
Click to expand...

I still don’t think this proves that 1 depowered Super Emerald equals all 7 regular ones, since you will always need to have seven depowered Emeralds present at a time if you unlocked Super to begin with.

But it at least shows 7 depowered SE can trigger the transformation, thanks.
 
LaserPrecision said:
Increasing Sonic's stats is verbatim stated/noted in-lore to be the process of "unleashing his potential".
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Where? Huh, when? In which cutscene or lore dump? Where? In the tutorial stating how the mechanic itself work? Is that your "noted in-lore" statement?
Please do show it to me, and I sure hope you're not referencing the very tutorial text that introduces the mechanic to the player, that'd be funny.

Furthermore, again, it changes nothing in-lore, he does not get any stronger or faster during the actual story, it just makes bosses easier, which is what the mechanic is supposed to do. You can beat them at level 1 or level 99, it gives off the same ending, and during cutscenes, his attacks or struggles are unchanged.
LaserPrecision said:
Making him stronger, faster, more durable, etc.
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That's how leveling up mechanics work in general. He isn't noted to be any faster or stronger during any of the cutscenes and the ending isn't affected at all by the level you are, you are still powerful enough to defeat The End regardless. No, it is not lore accurate.

RPG Mechanics are not canon to the story.
 
Sans015 said:
Where? Huh, when? In which cutscene or lore dump? Where? In the tutorial stating how the mechanic itself work? Is that your "noted in-lore" statement?
Please do show it to me, and I sure hope you're not referencing the very tutorial text that introduces the mechanic to the player, that'd be funny.

Furthermore, again, it changes nothing in-lore, he does not get any stronger or faster during the actual story, it just makes bosses easier, which is what the mechanic is supposed to do. You can beat them at level 1 or level 99, it gives off the same ending, and during cutscenes, his attacks or struggles are unchanged.

That's how leveling up mechanics work in general. He isn't noted to be any faster or stronger during any of the cutscenes and the ending isn't affected at all by the level you are, you are still powerful enough to defeat The End regardless. No, it is not lore accurate.

RPG Mechanics are not canon to the story.
Click to expand...
You seem quick to dismiss every aspect of the game as game mechanics. What's next. Every move unlocked in the game is game mechanics that don't carry into the lore at all? Anyway, here's the statement you were looking for. It only occurs once Sonic has been fully leveled.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/YqZ6G9n

Here's the video source



In short you're entirely and utterly wrong. It's quite simple logic that a stronger Base = a stronger Super form. Even if u wanted to discredit Frontiers.
 
LaserPrecision said:
You seem quick to dismiss every aspect of the game---
Click to expand...
I've dismissed a RPG-Mechanic as a game mechanic because of it's lack of impact on the actual story, you're strawmanning me quite a bit by putting words in my mouth. Chill out, no need to get emotional over being incorrect on Sonic of all things.
LaserPrecision said:
In short you're entirely and utterly wrong.
Click to expand...
These don't disprove my points neither does it prove yours. I have shown very glaring issues with considering these mechanics as canonical, again, Level 1 and Level 99 are virtually the same in-lore, Super Sonic and Sonic struggles all the same during the actual story driven plot regardless of your level. It's a simple concept, if a RPG's narrative can be passed without even needing levels, then said levels are not a story-driven metric to empower the main character and our measurement should more be focused on feats rather than anything else.
LaserPrecision said:
It's quite simple logic that a stronger Base = a stronger Super form. Even if u wanted to discredit Frontiers.
Click to expand...
That would be the case if Super Sonic was a stable multiplier. It is not. Adding a finite amount of power to an infinite amount is never going to be at scale. Shadow's limiter wouldn't give too much power to Super Shadow given how no-limiter Shadow is still infinitely weaker than Super Shadow. It's "simple logic" too, don't you think?
 
Sans015 said:
I've dismissed a RPG-Mechanic as a game mechanic because of it's lack of impact on the actual story, you're strawmanning me quite a bit by putting words in my mouth. Chill out, no need to get emotional over being incorrect on Sonic of all things.
Click to expand...
You know what, my mistake. Though I felt the dialogue regarding Sonic having his potential unleashed made it obvious that while not important to the story of Frontiers, still is a canon power up. Tho I don't know where you got emotional from.
Sans015 said:
These don't disprove my points neither does it prove yours. I have shown very glaring issues with considering these mechanics as canonical, again, Level 1 and Level 99 are virtually the same in-lore, Super Sonic and Sonic struggles all the same during the actual story driven plot regardless of your level. It's a simple concept, if a RPG's narrative can be passed without even needing levels, then said levels are not a story-driven metric to empower the main character and our measurement should more be focused on feats rather than anything else.
Click to expand...
Oh, then we're not really in disagreement. I don't think the increases changed the struggles he faced against the Titans. Just that he actually did get stronger/faster throughout the game by having his potential unleashed canonically as it's addressed in dialogue coupled with more in-lore statements.
Sans015 said:
That would be the case if Super Sonic was a stable multiplier. It is not. Adding a finite amount of power to an infinite amount is never going to be at scale. Shadow's limiter wouldn't give too much power to Super Shadow given how no-limiter Shadow is still infinitely weaker than Super Shadow. It's "simple logic" too, don't you think?
Click to expand...
It doesn't need to be a multiplier for it to be stronger. Super is Chaos Emeralds + Sonic. Thus a stronger Sonic would equate to a stronger Super Sonic, even if not by a very significant amount.
 
LaserPrecision said:
It doesn't need to be a multiplier for it to be stronger. Super is Chaos Emeralds + Sonic. Thus a stronger Sonic would equate to a stronger Super Sonic, even if not by a very significant amount.
Click to expand...
That's what I was trying to say, I acknowledge the possibility of miscommunication on my end given you're not really saying something I disagree with. I was trying to say Super Shadow wouldn't get much stronger "at the same scale". As in, just because the limiters make Shadow multiple times stronger doesn't mean Super Shadow will be multiplied on the same scale due to the quite literal infinite gap between the two, obviously he would get stronger.

I'm saying this due to a logical point of view since we've never seen Super Shadow without his inhibitor rings as far as I can tell. Obviously, the writers can just ignore this "logical problem" and just multiply his strength anyway. Didn't mean for this to become an extensive debate.
 
Sans015 said:
That's what I was trying to say, I acknowledge the possibility of miscommunication on my end given you're not really saying something I disagree with. I was trying to say Super Shadow wouldn't get much stronger "at the same scale". As in, just because the limiters make Shadow multiple times stronger doesn't mean Super Shadow will be multiplied on the same scale due to the quite literal infinite gap between the two, obviously he would get stronger.

I'm saying this due to a logical point of view since we've never seen Super Shadow without his inhibitor rings as far as I can tell. Obviously, the writers can just ignore this "logical problem" and just multiply his strength anyway. Didn't mean for this to become an extensive debate.
Click to expand...
I agree. I believed the reason he never took the inhibitor rings off is because it's entirely redundant and wouldn't offer anything (As it grants him "unlimited Chaos Energy" which he already has IN the Super Form already). Assuming that's what you meant.
 
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