Ichiban Ushiro no Daimaou Reality-Fiction stuff continued

[Sus]

So
What now?

We wait for @DontTalkDT @Shuradou And @Darksmash

 

[Sir_sun_man]

hmmm well ok yeah I'm no longer partial to the downgrade but I do believe that high 1-A or 1-A for that matter is too high for the justifications provided. From what I see the dream hierarchy and its transcendence provides high 1-B low 1-A feats maybe baseline 1-A or a bit above if you stretch it but in no way does it reach high 1-A by our standards its waaaaaay off

but yeah holy hell I do have to give credit where credit is due great counter arguments @DontTalkDT took me a wee bit off gaurd

 

[Antvasima]

@Colonel_Krukov @Shadowbokunohero @Crazylatin77 @Jvando @Zaratthustra @SamanPatou @Just_a_Random_Butler @ElixirBlue @Dino_Ranger_Black @JustSomeWeirdo @Theglassman12 @Crabwhale @Eficiente @GyroNutz @DarkGrath @The_Wright_Way @Moritzva @Firestorm808 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Everything12 @Duedate8898 @Planck69 @KingTempest @The_Impress @Armorchompy @CrimsonStarFallen @UchihaSlayer96

Would any of you be willing to help out with evaluating DontTalk's first post please?

 

[Sus]

We should wait for opposers

 

[Tarang123]

hmmm well ok yeah I'm no longer partial to the downgrade but I do believe that high 1-A or 1-A for that matter is too high for the justifications provided. From what I see the dream hierarchy and its transcendence provides high 1-B low 1-A feats maybe baseline 1-A or a bit above if you stretch it but in no way does it reach high 1-A by our standards its waaaaaay off

but yeah holy hell I do have to give credit where credit is due great counter arguments @DontTalkDT took me a wee bit off gaurd

I pretty much share this opinion. High 1B, Low 1A, or baseline 1A should work. High 1A doesn’t make any sense

 

[AKUTO123]

I think it's up to DT whether the high 1A rating remains or not, because he's the one who made the 1A and high 1A after the high 1B hierarchy. My thoughts are a little different from his.

 

[AKM sama]

I don't have any understanding of the verse, so my input here will not be that helpful. Based on what I read so far, DT's post seems to make sense. But then again, I have zero knowledge of the overall verse.

 

[Sus]

I think it's up to DT whether the high 1A rating remains or not, because he's the one who made the 1A and high 1A after the high 1B hierarchy. My thoughts are a little different from his.

It's still being discussed though? It's up to no one to decide

 

[AKUTO123]

I mean, if he does, he does. because DT is the person who came up with the idea and proved it in time.

 

[Tarang123]

I mean, if he does, he does. because DT is the person who came up with the idea and proved it in time.

Yes, and people are contending that. It’s better for any supporter of the verse’s current ratings to put their evidence in

 

[Antvasima]

So would you be willing to considerably improve on the justifications in the IUND pages DontTalk? An explanations page for the verse or a section with this purpose in its verse page wouldn't hurt either.

 

[DontTalkDT]

So would you be willing to considerably improve on the justifications in the IUND pages DontTalk? An explanations page for the verse or a section with this purpose in its verse page wouldn't hurt either.

If this ends up accepted I can do so. The verse already has an explanation page I had written after the last revision and IMO that would be the best place to add additional clarifications regarding what was discussed in this thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out. It is very appreciated.

I personally think that you made good sense above, but other staff members do not seem very interested in helping out yet.

Should I try to send notifications to them again?

 

[Sus]

Can't we wait for @Shuradou ?

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, that is fine.

 

[Elizhaa]

I will try to reply later or at least by Monday since I am busy IRL this weekend.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.

 

[AKUTO123]

If this ends up accepted I can do so. The verse already has an explanation page I had written after the last revision and IMO that would be the best place to add additional clarifications regarding what was discussed in this thread.

a pretty good article. I can only give an opinion on this. I want to give my opinion on the infinite possibilities and their nature here, there will be those who agree or disagree. When we get to the bottom of the infinite possibilities, opening the infinite possibilities is expressed as "opening the world inside the Akuto and releasing it". By being in, I mean dream hierarchy like dream hierarchy logic, and all possible worlds are most likely Akuto's dreams. If you try to see all the dreams at once, there will be confusion in your brain, "chaos". If we see dreams one by one, it will take tens of thousands of years, but that doesn't change the fact that all dreams are a creation of your mind. Just as the extra-universal gods in infinite possibilities are a part of Akuto's story/fiction, infinite possibilities are like that for me. In this case, it doesn't matter whether Akuto saw them all at once or not. so it seems to me that Akuto should get the 1A switch for sure. I would like to draw attention to the speech of Akuto bouchiro after infinite possibilities."We are the only two who receive equal incarnations in the creator's world. Akuto is not the only person trying to reach the creator. According to the novel, there are countless people like him, but they cannot communicate with Akuto because they are at different degrees and levels. Since only Hiroshi and Akuto are equal in the creator's world, they can communicate, which supports that endless possibilities are a way to step into the creator's world. it also shows that this creator's world contains numerous superior 1A's. tloi sees his world of countless 1As as fiction. I mean, these people will continue to be fiction for tloi even if it is indefinite, so I think that tloi is definite and solid in High1A rating, apart from these, I have no objection to the block.

 

[Tarang123]

tloi sees his world of countless 1As as fiction. I mean, these people will continue to be fiction for tloi even if it is indefinite, so I think that tloi is definite and solid in High1A rating, apart from these, I have no objection to the block.

This isn't really 1A unless this countless 1A thing is a layered hierarchy. Otherwise, it's a layer into 1A

 

[Teezar]

This isn't really 1A unless this countless 1A thing is a layered hierarchy. Otherwise, it's a layer into 1A

It seems 1A+ in a way but definitely a possible high 1A to me to see countless 1A structure as fiction.

I'm leaning to agree.

 

[Tarang123]

It seems 1A+ in a way but definitely a possible high 1A to me to see countless 1A structure as fiction.

from how I saw it, it was a structure that had a bunch of 1A characters in it, that doesn't seem to be enough to grant High 1A, so I'll be neutral, but leaning to disagree. Then again, we gave Overvoid the High 1A rating for similar reasoning, so High 1A might work

 

[Teezar]

Akuto said layers which overvoid lacked so I agree with his points.
TLOI and overvoid case are different if you look at it.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Couldn't go through DT entire post but from what I read so far, I agree with him on the Reality fiction transdence

 

[Lormac_CC]

High 1-B via dream hierarchy for now, will wait for the next discussion

 

[Sus]

we gave Overvoid the High 1A

Guess who's losing high 1A ?

 

[Rikimarox2]

a pretty good article. I can only give an opinion on this. I want to give my opinion on the infinite possibilities and their nature here, there will be those who agree or disagree. When we get to the bottom of the infinite possibilities, opening the infinite possibilities is expressed as "opening the world inside the Akuto and releasing it". By being in, I mean dream hierarchy like dream hierarchy logic, and all possible worlds are most likely Akuto's dreams. If you try to see all the dreams at once, there will be confusion in your brain, "chaos". If we see dreams one by one, it will take tens of thousands of years, but that doesn't change the fact that all dreams are a creation of your mind. Just as the extra-universal gods in infinite possibilities are a part of Akuto's story/fiction, infinite possibilities are like that for me. In this case, it doesn't matter whether Akuto saw them all at once or not. so it seems to me that Akuto should get the 1A switch for sure. I would like to draw attention to the speech of Akuto bouchiro after infinite possibilities."We are the only two who receive equal incarnations in the creator's world. Akuto is not the only person trying to reach the creator. According to the novel, there are countless people like him, but they cannot communicate with Akuto because they are at different degrees and levels. Since only Hiroshi and Akuto are equal in the creator's world, they can communicate, which supports that endless possibilities are a way to step into the creator's world. it also shows that this creator's world contains numerous superior 1A's. tloi sees his world of countless 1As as fiction. I mean, these people will continue to be fiction for tloi even if it is indefinite, so I think that tloi is definite and solid in High1A rating, apart from these, I have no objection to the block.

That doesn't seem High 1A to me at all. Hell, it doesn't even seem 1A+

That's like just a layer above, nothing else.

 

[Lormac_CC]

That doesn't seem High 1A to me at all. Hell, it doesn't even seem 1A+

That's like just a layer above, nothing else.

Exactly

 

[Lormac_CC]

Don't want to go into any discussion about how many Hierarchies due to the nature of the thread.

 

[Tarang123]

Guess who's losing high 1A ?

Lmao true, but that was still the idea of High 1A Overvoid

 

[AKUTO123]

That doesn't seem High 1A to me at all. Hell, it doesn't even seem 1A+

That's like just a layer above, nothing else.

I do not claim that the structure is 1A+ or High1A, I think I was misunderstood. I wanted to express that even if the structure is 1A+, I wanted to express that tloi will exceed this. Actually, there is no such thing, but I said that even if there is a 1A system and hierarchy in it and it goes to 1A+, tloi will exceed this and therefore it can be high 1A because no matter how long the story goes, tloi in afterlife it will still exceed it. In summary, my point is that 1A+ does not have a hierarchy. Even if there is such a hierarchy, tloi will exceed it and therefore it will be high1A. As you know, such a system is not required for high1A, it can still do high1A in things that show that it will exceed if there is a character.

 

[AKUTO123]

Also, my other logic is that just as Akuto's infinite possibilities include the dream hierarchy and Akuto ascending, there is such a difference between Akuto and tloi. In summary, my other argument is that the difference between Akuto and tloi is higher than the dream hierarchy. You can say that this is not certain, of course, because this assumption is not strong enough, but if my memory does not deceive me, there was an article in the novel that tloi did not see Akuto, who is 1A, different from a normal person. I think these support my logic.

 

[Tarang123]

in the novel that tloi did not see Akuto, who is 1A, different from a normal person. I think these support my logic.

Unfortunately, this likely wouldn't be enough to grant a solid High 1A rating to Akuto due to the FAQ page we have

 

[AKUTO123]

Unfortunately, this likely wouldn't be enough to grant a solid High 1A rating to Akuto due to the FAQ page we have

I did not say that this panel gives high1A for sure. I said it supports that tloi transcends Akuto as much as the dream hierarchy. I mean, I put this sentence forward as a small support, I know that this sentence will not make high1A.

 

[Teezar]

I do not claim that the structure is 1A+ or High1A, I think I was misunderstood. I wanted to express that even if the structure is 1A+, I wanted to express that tloi will exceed this. Actually, there is no such thing, but I said that even if there is a 1A system and hierarchy in it and it goes to 1A+, tloi will exceed this and therefore it can be high 1A because no matter how long the story goes, tloi in afterlife it will still exceed it. In summary, my point is that 1A+ does not have a hierarchy. Even if there is such a hierarchy, tloi will exceed it and therefore it will be high1A. As you know, such a system is not required for high1A, it can still do high1A in things that show that it will exceed if there is a character.

I think we need ultima here and he once mentioned something like this for high 1a. If he agrees then you have my vote .

 

[AKUTO123]

This isn't really 1A unless this countless 1A thing is a layered hierarchy. Otherwise, it's a layer into 1A

these innumerable 1A are divided into layers within themselves, it is said that they exist in different degrees and levels and that people at these different degrees cannot communicate with each other. I believe that the Creator's world, which contains countless 1A layers that exceed each other, will also contain an infinite number of them.

 

[AKUTO123]

I think we need ultima here and he once mentioned something like this for high 1a. If he agrees then you have my vote .

That's why I don't think there is a need for Don't talk Dt var ulti in this discussion. Because Dont Talk is one of the people who wrote the rules for 1A and High1A in the tier system, and one of the two most knowledgeable people on this site along with ultima. If DT agrees with me or says yes it can be so, then my logic is correct. To tell the truth, I don't think the two would say differently.

 

[TokiNoOuja]

It seems 1A+ in a way but definitely a possible high 1A to me to see countless 1A structure as fiction.

I'm leaning to agree.

Countless 0 when

 

[Tarang123]

If DT agrees with me or says yes it can be so, then my logic is correct. To tell the truth, I don't think the two would say differently.

Even if they helped revamp the tiering system, it wouldn’t make the logic truly correct, but assuming we take 1A ichiban, can you show evidence for the stuff that gets them to High 1A

 

[Delta333]

If DT is always correct then how can this thread even be a discussion ??

 

[Tarang123]

If DT is always correct then how can this thread even be a discussion ??

Exactly, but I think that he’s saying that DT is reliable when it comes to tiering system shenanigans.