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CAS Should Be High 1-A

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Fihsouuhfosh3

Fihsouuhfosh3

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Hello, this is my first post in vsbattles. I have been reading some dc threads lately and I can see a lot of downplaying. I mostly don't blame the mods or anything but the posters themselves. They don't really dive in or are really vague. I and my friends will try to upgrade dc in the coming weeks and months. First project will be Cas:

First, will we start with the cosmology of the dc multiverse/creation (a quick explanation):
As we see in the dc multiverse map, the monitor sphere is above every realm inside the multiverse, which includes realms like limbo, the sphere of the gods etc.
We will scale monitor sphere off these realms, we will start with limbo:

Limbo is the place where forgotten characters go when they are dumped out of dc continuity.
According to the dc map, Limbo is the realm below monitor sphere is the furthest edge of the dc universe, dc continuity some may say.
Stories don't exist in limbo, it's one of the conditions of existence.
Some people also seem to forget that the very "avatar" of Grant Morrison, also known as the writer lives and exists in limbo. He also writes comic books from limbo. I also don't get why the writer is tier 0 when he accepts he does not control everything and there is being above him but the being above him could refer to the "True form" of Grant Morrison. It is also stated that there are other writers like Grant Morrison in limbo, writing comics we read every day.

l7VwsTvJdA3dy6OiuswTh5eyPmO_Vw2cNkAXmoLfe837HMWT646fpwI1yv7VeZyothmhOUnwrmuXs1600.png

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IOnkYF_lukgTlLKVo3yK4gseHX7X-TcYzgUhz_ohAkAlHQ-F9p_DYpjsZgGrBkcpWYfoAuHNd5m6s1600.png
https://media.discordapp.net/attach...075Fad3rApW79z7s1600.png?width=308&height=473
Nothing ever happens in limbo and there are no stories in limbo.
It is also called the last outpost of existence which backs up the furthest edge of the dc multiverse map statement.
It's a place where characters that no one remembers or cares about life.
Limbo is the place where erased things live. It's the characters that are outside of the continuity and are almost wiped out.
I hope that does it for limbo.

Next up is The Sphere Of Gods:
Quick explanation:
The Sphere of the Gods is a metaphysical reality that is the home to all the gods of the DC Universe and is the source of all magic in the multiverse. The Sphere of the Gods is a metaphysical reality whose inhabitants exist on a higher plane of existence than the inhabitants of the infinite universes that make up the orrery of worlds but on a lower plane of existence than the denizens of the reality known as the monitor sphere.

The sphere of the gods is a realm of archetypal powers, which includes, new gods, demons, angels, and the endless.
The new gods are called platonic concepts.
The sphere of gods is a platonic/archetypal realm which means that they are baseline outer. It is also backed up by the tree example in Jld, where it states that a tree in the sphere of gods is the very essence of the word tree, this should apply to everything and everyone in the sphere of gods.
A realm in the sphere of gods, the dreaming creates archetypal beings.
It was also stated in a recent event called death metal, that The CU which created the sphere of the gods, also created the source/presence (this is a debate for a later time). You can also argue that the dreaming is the CU.
The sphere of gods is beyond the very concept of time and space.
Here's more proof:
image0.png

image0.png

Lol these scans came out a little too big.
The Sphere of the Gods is a domain made entirely out of the light of possibility and formed while Creation had not even finished forming.
The point should be further elaborated because The Sphere of the Gods is not a physical geographical place ubicated in the map, it is an archetypal space that exists only in the imaginary, and that his reach also affects even The Monitor Sphere. It would also be worth mentioning that these places in The Sphere of Gods have directly exits to go outside of creation without passing through The Source of Wall.
Example: Dream and Desire travels to the lake in the realm of Destiny, that is The Void. Second Scan.
The soft-places that are also entrances to The Dreaming are backdoors out of creation and into The Void.
When Dream left his realm he travels through The Void to enter Hell.
The edges of the Realm of the Hindu Gods are connected with The Void. Second scan.
http://The edges of the Realm of the Hindu Gods are connected with The Void.
https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net..._AUBc/s0-Ic42/RCO002.jpg?width=314&height=474
I hope I proved that the sphere of gods is 1-A but wait, there is more.
I heard that if you are above duality, you are baseline 1-A, which if it is true then that means the sphere of the gods is High 1-A.
https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net..._AUBc/s0-Ic42/RCO002.jpg?width=314&height=474
Because as you can see on the map, the sphere of gods is above the lords of order and chaos.
The lords of chaos and order created duality.
There is more proof of this but I think one is enough.
https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net..._AUBc/s0-Ic42/RCO002.jpg?width=314&height=474
So going of the scaling right here, it would be like this: Monitor sphere will be tier 0 to tier High 1 A Limbo would be High 1 A Sphere of the gods would be High 1 A Lords chaos and Lord's order would be 1 A.
They can be scaled higher but this is enough like I said.
https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net..._AUBc/s0-Ic42/RCO002.jpg?width=314&height=474
Now its time for The Main Man Himself, Cas:
https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net..._AUBc/s0-Ic42/RCO002.jpg?width=314&height=474
Many people forget that cas is not some random robot that is created, cas is a robot that is created to fight mandrakk and is controlled by the very essence of superman, otherwise known as the story of supes. Here is a video that goes deep in sos scaling: . He is broken.
Cas can also hear the very heartbeat of the reader and sees limbo as a toy, the same limbo which transcends everything in creation (except monitor sphere), such as sphere of gods (High 1-A to 1-A), and lords chaos and order ((High 1-A due to creating duality) 1-A). I did not wanna mention places like the bleed and the orrery of worlds which are both called pan-dimensional.
People also seem to forget that concepts in the monitor sphere have more meaning than in other realms in the dc multiverse, which also includes the sphere of gods, who are platonic and archetypal. Meaning the concepts in the monitor are already above (Baseline 1-A). He is also the greatest gift of the monitor dav novu and was created for the sole purpose of defending dc multiverse against any threat and has the power to instantly adapt to any threat before they even become a threat which is OP!!!!!!!!!!!.
The monitor sphere is not a physical realm, as cas is a being made of pure thought. Concepts in nil surrender themselves to the overvoid, meaning they are connected to the overvoid which makes sense.
It was also stated that all of creation is in a jar in a monitor sphere. They are draining the multiverse and eat the stories of it.
He is in a hyper-story that is trying to destroy him and he's tanking hits from mandrakk.
The monitor sphere was also stated to be outside all of the dc multiverses and out in the overvoid.
Now it's time to address the downplay that cas is only 10 billion sun level which is so ******** I had to force myself to write about it.
Reasons why it does not make sense for it to be 10 billion suns:
1. Cas was attacked by a High Outversal being called mandrakk. Who was stated to be a god and was gonna destroy of all creation. The next scan.
2.The attack was held in the monitor sphere and was damaging the realm/things inside it. Meaning mandrakk attacks are High outer for doing a feat like this. It was also stated to be the end of civilization.Clashing with Mandrakk caused the entire Monitor Sphereto to crumble into nonexistence

There is more reasons but this is enough for now. It's sad that people troll and say he is a 10 billion sun buster which is ******** but thankfully no one has said that in this site so far...
https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net..._AUBc/s0-Ic42/RCO002.jpg?width=314&height=474
The story of Superman is called unstoppable and indestructible.
His greatest ability, however, is the fact that he embodies the Superman archetype itself. He's literally as strong as he needs to be, because he's Superman, and he has to save the day, since he is the very essence of superman.
I have seen some people claim that cas does not have the ability to adapt instantly like the comic claims since he was not able to beat mandrakk instantly which is wrong, since it was stated that they both get stronger, adapting to each as the fight went on.
Mandrakk is the opposite of life and is the part of the overvoid that felt contaminated.
https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net..._AUBc/s0-Ic42/RCO002.jpg?width=314&height=474
Some people don't seem to understand the story of final crisis: Superman beyond.
I will write a simple but effective explanation: The Monitors aren't just superpowered aliens, they are metaphors for the writers and editors who control the DC Multiverse. One of the Monitors, Dax Nova, had gone insane centuries ago and tried to destroy the essence of the Multiverse to become Mandrakk the Dark Monitor, a cosmic vampire who seeks to devour all of fiction. Mandrakk doesn't just want to destroy the universe - he is waging a war on the concept of storytelling itself. The Monitors want to recruit Superman because he is the perfect representation of the idea of heroism and therefore the only person who can fight Mandrakk. The Monitors help Superman fuse together with Ultraman, his evil counterpart who was also brought to Comic Book Limbo, and together they form the Cosmic Armor Superman Thought Robot, a being who is literally powered by the laws of narrative causality. After a grueling battle, in which Cosmic Armor Superman reaches out to the reader through 3D, drawing on the laws of narrative, Superman is able to defeat Mandrakk by literally removing him from the comic book.
https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net..._AUBc/s0-Ic42/RCO002.jpg?width=314&height=474
However, I don't believe that mandrakk or Cas are the most powerful beings in dc. I think characters like Lucifer/Presence/Endless etc can beat them but that does not mean, cas or mandrakk are weak. They derserve to be placed in high outerversal tier. Same with some dc mid tiers and every top tier.

Thanks to my friend: Cleverzoro(Ubel) and Leijona.
https://media.discordapp.net/attach...Bs04wNPU2gQxv-gs1600.png?width=308&height=473
https://media.discordapp.net/attach...zcyzHvETIbvThMIs1600.png?width=308&height=473
https://media.discordapp.net/attach...Y-7J9Dxky1IS5_ss1600.png?width=308&height=473

https://media.discordapp.net/attach...528584925052928/1000.png?width=308&height=473
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https://media.discordapp.net/attach...528584925052928/1000.png?width=308&height=473
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https://media.discordapp.net/attach...zcyzHvETIbvThMIs1600.png?width=308&height=473
 
Disagree with a few things.

Platonic concepts aren't 1A anymore. In fact, the conceptual manipulation page has already been changed, so platonic concepts isn't really much of a word on the wiki, anymore. Besides, being platonic or whatever isn't automatically 1A and there's plenty of real feats and statements against 1A anyway.

As well as that, the logic for High 1A just blows my mind with how weird it is. Nowhere on the wiki is it stated that this would reach High 1A, so you should just give that up. After that, the rest of the stuff can just be removed, ignored, etc. Basically, it's not High 1A. In fact, nothing here solidifies 1A, either.
 
Fihsouuhfosh3 said:
Ah. Does that mean I have to edit the whole page? Or Can I write a reply that gove over every scan?
Click to expand...
Also, just please try organizing it a little better. It's extremely difficult to go through every single scan here without knowing context or anything else like that. Try making it a bit more organized.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Yes. Everything needs a source for a claim.

Though on a quick read through this is based on the idea of 1-A platonic archetypes, which aren't really a thing anymore iirc.
Click to expand...
There also seems to be a misconception on how to reach High 1A and even Tier 0
 
Tarang123 said:
Disagree with a few things.

Platonic concepts aren't 1A anymore. In fact, the conceptual manipulation page has already been changed, so platonic concepts isn't really much of a word on the wiki, anymore. Besides, being platonic or whatever isn't automatically 1A and there's plenty of real feats and statements against 1A anyway.

As well as that, the logic for High 1A just blows my mind with how weird it is. Nowhere on the wiki is it stated that this would reach High 1A, so you should just give that up. After that, the rest of the stuff can just be removed, ignored, etc. Basically, it's not High 1A. In fact, nothing here solidifies 1A, either.
Click to expand...
Oh, I did not know that. Can you post the page.


The sphere of god literally transcended a pan-dimensional plane. Hows that not 1-A? Also creating duality is 1-A and the sphere of gods transcend that so....
 
Fihsouuhfosh3 said:
Oh, I did not know that. Can you post the page.


The sphere of god literally transcended a pan-dimensional plane. Hows that not 1-A? Also creating duality is 1-A and the sphere of gods transcend that so....
Click to expand...
The level of duality has not been clarified.

As well as that, Pan dimensional is extremely verse specific. There's a pretty good 1B hierarchy in DC, but nothing that puts the Sphere of gods at 1A.
 
Here's the conceptual manipulation page:

vsbattles.fandom.com

Conceptual Manipulation

Conceptual Manipulation is the ability to manipulate, create, and/or destroy abstract concepts. This ability has a variety of applications, ranging from not combat-applicable to incredibly dominating. Conceptual Manipulation involves the manipulation of concepts, and not the universe directly...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Tarang123 said:
Here's the conceptual manipulation page:

vsbattles.fandom.com

Conceptual Manipulation

Conceptual Manipulation is the ability to manipulate, create, and/or destroy abstract concepts. This ability has a variety of applications, ranging from not combat-applicable to incredibly dominating. Conceptual Manipulation involves the manipulation of concepts, and not the universe directly...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Thanks. I will check it out!
 
Tarang123 said:
The level of duality has not been clarified.

As well as that, Pan dimensional is extremely verse specific. There's a pretty good 1B hierarchy in DC, but nothing that puts the Sphere of gods at 1A.
Click to expand...
What do you mean?

They Transdceded a 1-B structure like it's nothing. Also, a 1-A being could not even affect it so.... The sphere of gods can destory the whole multiverse just by falling. They see it as fiction, how's that not 1-A.
 
Tarang123 said:
Here's the conceptual manipulation page:

vsbattles.fandom.com

Conceptual Manipulation

Conceptual Manipulation is the ability to manipulate, create, and/or destroy abstract concepts. This ability has a variety of applications, ranging from not combat-applicable to incredibly dominating. Conceptual Manipulation involves the manipulation of concepts, and not the universe directly...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
What tier is platnoic concepts?
 
Fihsouuhfosh3 said:
What do you mean?

They Transdceded a 1-B structure like it's nothing. Also, a 1-A being could not even affect it so.... The sphere of gods can destory the whole multiverse just by falling. They see it as fiction, how's that not 1-A.
Click to expand...
What 1A being was unable to affect it?

Again, transcending 1B structures isn't really 1A unless there's more context. Besides, it still wouldn't account to High 1A CAS
 
Fihsouuhfosh3 said:
Next up is The Sphere Of Gods:
Quick explanation:
The Sphere of the Gods is a metaphysical reality that is the home to all the gods of the DC Universe and is the source of all magic in the multiverse. The Sphere of the Gods is a metaphysical reality whose inhabitants exist on a higher plane of existence than the inhabitants of the infinite universes that make up the orrery of worlds but on a lower plane of existence than the denizens of the reality known as the monitor sphere.

The sphere of the gods is a realm of archetypal powers, which includes, new gods, demons, angels, and the endless.
The new gods are called platonic concepts.
The sphere of gods is a platonic/archetypal realm which means that they are baseline outer. It is also backed up by the tree example in Jld, where it states that a tree in the sphere of gods is the very essence of the word tree, this should apply to everything and everyone in the sphere of gods.
A realm in the sphere of gods, the dreaming creates archetypal beings.
It was also stated in a recent event called death metal, that The CU which created the sphere of the gods, also created the source/presence (this is a debate for a later time). You can also argue that the dreaming is the CU.
The sphere of gods is beyond the very concept of time and space.
Here's more proof:
image0.png

image0.png

Lol these scans came out a little too big.
The Sphere of the Gods is a domain made entirely out of the light of possibility and formed while Creation had not even finished forming.
The point should be further elaborated because The Sphere of the Gods is not a physical geographical place ubicated in the map, it is an archetypal space that exists only in the imaginary, and that his reach also affects even The Monitor Sphere. It would also be worth mentioning that these places in The Sphere of Gods have directly exits to go outside of creation without passing through The Source of Wall.
Example: Dream and Desire travels to the lake in the realm of Destiny, that is The Void. Second Scan.
The soft-places that are also entrances to The Dreaming are backdoors out of creation and into The Void.
When Dream left his realm he travels through The Void to enter Hell.
The edges of the Realm of the Hindu Gods are connected with The Void. Second scan.
http://The edges of the Realm of the Hindu Gods are connected with The Void.
https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net..._AUBc/s0-Ic42/RCO002.jpg?width=314&height=474
I hope I proved that the sphere of gods is 1-A but wait, there is more.
I heard that if you are above duality, you are baseline 1-A, which if it is true then that means the sphere of the gods is High 1-A.
https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net..._AUBc/s0-Ic42/RCO002.jpg?width=314&height=474
Because as you can see on the map, the sphere of gods is above the lords of order and chaos.
The lords of chaos and order created duality.
There is more proof of this but I think one is enough.
https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net..._AUBc/s0-Ic42/RCO002.jpg?width=314&height=474
Click to expand...
The godsphere can't be 1-A for the following reasons
The sphere of gods has shown measurements

Effects of gravity

Apokolips (a realm in the sphere of gods) is said to exist in it's own private dimension

Apokolips can be reached via extra-dimensional portals such as boomtube

Wonder Woman travels to the godsphere and can only interact with the shell of Tezcatlipoca due to his extra-dimensional nature

Darkseid's Omega Beams teleport people through time and space. With this in mind, Darkseid's omega beams sent Lex to Apokolips

The sphere of gods is a higher vibratory realm. DC follows M-theory in which vibrations are within dimensionality.

The mobius chair which rides the dimension winds of time and space can travel to Apokolips and new genesis

So they're not above all dimensional extensions which is the requirement to be 1-A.
 
Fihsouuhfosh3 said:
Oh, I did not know that. Can you post the page.


The sphere of god literally transcended a pan-dimensional plane. Hows that not 1-A? Also creating duality is 1-A and the sphere of gods transcend that so....
Click to expand...
That Pan-dimensional plane is the bleed

To be Pan-dimensional is to be across every dimension of reality


"We're looking into the bleed, the medium that surrounds and enfolds all the dimensions of reality"
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/799039387672903723/869268794932101130/RCO011_1583403554.jpg

They're pulled into the portal
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/799039387672903723/869268795364089936/RCO019_1583403554.jpg

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/799039387672903723/869268795829669938/RCO020_1583403554.jpg

And are sent from one dimension to another. Take into account that the dimension would be one of the many dimensions of reality within the bleed, the justifications for pan-dimensional because of the context

"I'm sorry. we've been pulled across dimensions."
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/799039387672903723/869268952113614888/RCO021_1583403554.jpg

This dimension is shown to be another universe
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/799039387672903723/869269124067496007/RCO007_1583624689.jpg

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/799039387672903723/869269124373700668/RCO009_1583624689.jpg

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/799039387672903723/869271277901320222/RCO022_1583624689.jpg

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/799039387672903723/869271278173966336/RCO003_1583976048.jpg

So the dimensions of reality that pan-dimensional is talking about in DC's context are universes not higher dimensions.
So the Bleed can't be 1-B

As for transduality There are different levels of transduality. Only type 3 and 4 are 1-A. And you haven't provided any evidence on why they're type 3 or 4
 
Tarang123 said:
It likely doesn't get it's own special tier, but it would usually, unless further context contradicts it, be a type 1 concept. On the tiering system, it's not 1A unless more context is given
Click to expand...
What tier is a type 1 Concept? What can make platonic concepts 1-A in this wiki?
 
Tarang123 said:
What 1A being was unable to affect it?

Again, transcending 1B structures isn't really 1A unless there's more context. Besides, it still wouldn't account to High 1A CAS
Click to expand...
The presence was stated by trigon sons to be unable to affect it. Since the only beings that can use/control the bleed are the monitors. (I will get the scan later)

Context like what?
 
iirc such concepts should not guarantee a specific tier.
 
Kyozen said:
Also are we going to address the fact that the Monitor sphere is a higher dimension therefore it can't be 1-A? Let alone High 1-A
Click to expand...
Well, higher dimensional statements can still grant a 1A rating if more context is given, but there's some evidence against 1A DC, but I'm not too sure about it cause I'm not the people making that massive revision, who are literally reading every DC comic.
 
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