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1-A threads (yet again...)

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I don't see why 1-A should differentiate from any other series of matches. The thing is, an equalization of verses has always happened in these threads (at least in my recent experience) where one can gauge the levels of power of these characters relative to what "level," of 1-A they stand at, as it is in DarkLK's system on ACF (Which possesses a separation between their Low 1-A and 1-A tiers, in that a Low 1-A transcends dimensions, whereas a 1-A transcends dimensions and levels of infinity, a la countably infinite and uncountably infinite cardinals in set theory) If one character is on a higher "level," of 1-A mathematically (similar to how we treat higher/lower tiers in our tiering system), I don't see why we must just simply ignore it. Quality should come before quantity in these cases, in that being above multiple 1-A's is not mathematically analagous to transcending a plateau or threshold of area/ability that a character beneath them does not. Take the Cthulhu Mythos for example; there are infinite levels of "outerversal," space before one reaches the Gate, which constitutes a conceptual barrier beyond which the parameters of everything before become less than nonexistent. Then there are infinite levels of that paradigm before you reach the Ultimate Gate, where even the faculties of existence and non-existence become invalid. These are clear distinctions we can make, apart from say those of High 1-A/0, where it all comes down to unclear semantics, regardless of whether or not A character is superior to B character. High 1-A by its nature transcends complexities and hierarchies, 1-A by its nature does not. Additionally, every 1-A match I have been in recently has been civil, and the most objective stance possible is usually taken, disregarding all in-verse terminologies and definitions for the more objective nature of the mathematical complexity of said characters' existences, as is with tiers. This goes back into my argument some time ago about why 1-A by its nature is not necessarily metaphysical, a stance which was supported, in that it to some degree is possible to quantify these characters, however a litmus test for doing so would be preferrable.
 
It's not necessarily the cosmologies that become/should become equalized, though cosmology can be broken down into its parts, regardless of semantics; it's the characters and the complexity of the nature of said characters in relation to the terms used to describe them. Something like how we don't take statements about omnipotence seriously unless it's a High 1-A/0. My point is that it's technically wholly possible to analyze the complexity of what area said character can affect if it's beneath High 1-A.
 
Yeah. I agree with you there. I just don't want the matches added to profiles and apparently so do others. Bad enough we have High 1-B matches that involve yet again misinformation (Living Tribunal vs. God Emperor for example).
 
Well, what if said matches are required to be analyzed for consistency by a verse's experts and experts on the tiering system as a whole to determine if they're valid or not? I understand where you and the others are coming from, I just think it feels a bit odd on a site made primarily for versus battles to split High 1-A and 0 from 1-A if it's all going to be treated the same way, and as others have stated, some 1-A's are vastly above several infinite hierarchies, whereas others are simply beyond dimensions and may retain physical aspects to some degree.
 
So how should we reword the rule, and is anybody willing to handle the edit?
 
I personally think there should be heavy restrictions, but not an outright ban. If characters/debates are too complex to review without becoming controversial, then they should not be allowed, but if they are not, then they should be allowed. Otherwise, I only see more question being put into the tier of 1-A itself.
 
We have previously agreed that people can discuss such matchups for fun, but not add them to the profiles. We just have to make this clearer to our members within the rules,
 
Some debates play out better than others, though. Sometimes a conclusion can be had very quickly due to conclusiveness between the respective characters' "power levels", which I believe warrants its own topic if there will be no debate about such a thing.

That being said, if you really want it to be incredibly specific, this should be what you use:

"Please note that while matches between 1-A characters are technically not forbidden, results from such matchups will not be added, as matches of this nature, more times than not, prove to be contentious and may not necessarily be conclusive, due to being unable to accurately compare levels of complexity between the cosmologies of respective fictional works."
 
Hmm. Maybe something similar to this, to make it somewhat more straightforward to understand?

"Please note that although matches between 1-A characters are technically not forbidden, results from such matchups will not be added to the character profiles. Due to the unfathomably high gaps of power between characters within this category, and how hard it is to accurately compare levels of complexity between the cosmologies of different fictional works, these threads should not be discussed for anything beyond casual entertainment."
 
I think that would work better for what is being discussed here, yes.

However, I still think that it should be discussed as to whether or not lower-bound 1-A's should be allowed to have their results added, but that's just my perspective based on what I explained above.
 
No 1-A character should be allowed to have their results added.
 
As someone who legit used to think it would be better to have 1-A matches, after looking around at the VS threads involving these characters in general...

I legit changed my mind.

With Sera/the OP on this one. Should probably be banned.
 
@Ant

So then should we remove the "Others," section from all profiles where 1-A is the only key?

I still think that a total ban may open up a can of worms.
 
Again, we already had a ban for adding such matchups to the profiles. We just worded it poorly.

People can still argue for fun about them though.
 
My only point is for when said matches go relatively smoothly, which has happened relatively recently.

That being said, should the "Others," section be removed?

And I would be willing to apply the edit if I am allowed (to the Discussion Rules page, as I'm assuming that's where the current rendition of the rule lay)
 
I can perform the edit, if my suggested wording is acceptable.

It would require quite a lot of work to revise all of the others sections in the 1-A pages, so I am not sure that it is necessary.
 
There's nothing wrong with these threads, if they involve people who understand what they're talking about. The problem is that there are only a few such people here. Of course, we could create a special group and special rules for putting the results in these matches, but I do not think that someone will do it.
 
Aeyu said:
My only point is for when said matches go relatively smoothly, which has happened relatively recently.
Click to expand...

The problem presented in the OP is that the overall result of said matches can turn out to be relatively poor or outright wrong due to the parties involved not generally knowing the mechanics, characters, cosmology, complexity, etc of both verses involved, so we end up with false results based on either A. Wrong assumptions B. Lack of generalknowledge about both sides involved. C. Wrong associations and comparisons being made which all lead to a end "result" that is, with all due respect, utterly mistaken. Far from what the match would actually turn out to be if people were concerned about KNOWING well enough what they are debating rather than jumping to conclusions based on that.

...I could give examples, but that is the can of worms that *I'm* not touching. Hence why I simply voiced that I'm in agreements with the OP view on this matter.
 
@Ant, regarding the definition I think it is acceptable; it is very specific and to the point.
 
As for the person above who said "misunderstandings" regarding the complexity of a character or the full extent of its abilities happen in tiers that are waaaaaaaaayy below 1-A. Remind me again why that person thought that was a point against banning said matches rather than in favor of?

If people make mistakes and flamewars when analyzing something as simple as "A cake being eaten will not be erased from existence", pretty sure the mistakes they can make when they are analyzing characters that transcend pretty much every dimensional notion are ridiculously bigger if they're not very much aware of what they are debating and both sides of the coin.

Which sadly, but true, it turns out to not be the case very, very frequently. More frequently than close for comfort.
 
DarkLK said:
There's nothing wrong with these threads, if they involve people who understand what they're talking about. The problem is that there are only a few such people here. Of course, we could create a special group and special rules for putting the results in these matches, but I do not think that someone will do it.
Click to expand...
This.
 
I agree with Sera and Dark. If individuals are knowledgeable about such a topic, I do not see why it could not be addressed in a serious fashion.
 
@Fate

I certainly hope that that isn't anything directed toward myself. That being said, that is why only those who are extremely familiar with the circumstances and how to rationally and mathematically scale such characters should participate in said threads in the first place.
 
No worries, Aeyu. The ban I speak of (which I agree with) is the one with not adding said matches, which was generally admitted to be happening despite there actually being a rule not to.

Was just adding my points to the matter.
 
Well, I don't see an issue with discussing them in any sense; my whole position is that if individuals can intelligently come to a rational conclusion. while addressing mathematical complexities and the like, that I don't see why they shouldn't ever be added.
 
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