• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

HST Showdown Continued - (Round 7 - Prodigies)

Messages
11,638
Reaction score
21,057
==Introduction==
After a long wait, I decided to continue my "HST Showdown" series of threads. I recently remembered them, so I decided to check them out again. I saw the discussions they created, the debates that occurred in them. They were healthy and fun to participate in, and I miss those days. So, that's why I am continuing them.

It will be different than before in some ways. The requisite point total of five will now be increased to eight, to allow more debate to occur in future threads. Everything else, though, will remain the same. I will be open to changes, if necessary or helpful to the continued flourishing of the threads.

Additionally, as this is a continuation of a series of ongoing threads, it will continue where the previous thread left off.

For prior threads, see here.

==Central Theme==
The "central theme" of this thread is about Prodigies. A person who naturally excels at attaining mastery over a particular set of interest, beyond the rate in which normal individuals can hope to achieve. All three characters here are described as Prodigies and will be pitted against one another to see who the better prodigy of them is.

==Rules==
Since the rules have remained mostly the same, I will just take what I explained before and use it here.
Because of the large stat and hax discrepancy between all three verses, every single match will have stats equalized and Reiatsu Crush/Invisibility/Invulnerability for Souls within Bleach will be restricted for debate-sake, because If I didn’t then literally every single thread will be “Reiatsu Crush GG 🤓” and I don’t want that, I want actual debates. General Soul Manipulation through Zanpakutos are allowed, however.

Amps are usable, but Amps which provide "oneshot level" amps, as in amps which allow people to oneshot, tank, speedblitz etc. Something on that exact level isn't allowed and is restricted for fairness.

For further context on what "oneshot level" amps are, they're amplifications which increase a certain stat to the point that characters previously comparable to the character who used the amp, are completely and utterly incapable of tanking, damaging or reacting to that character. So, for an example; amps which amplify an attack by 10x wouldn't be allowed in these threads since a 7.5x differential between AP and Durability is considered a oneshot on the wiki.

Furthermore, an inconclusive ending to the thread will result in the decided verses each getting a point. So, for example, if a character from One Piece and Naruto have equal votes at the end of the thread, a point will be given to One Piece and Naruto respectively.

Location: Standard SBA Location - New York City, Central Park.

Distance: Standard SBA Distance - 4KM from each other.

==Forms and Mindset==
  • Tōshirō Hitsugaya - Post Training--starts in base but has access to Shikai and Bankai--his Adult Form is restricted, however.
  • Portgas D. Ace - Adult
  • Minato Namikaze - Alive Hokage Minato--starts in base but has access to Sage Mode.
All three characters are in-character, but willing to kill, basically bog-standard SBA rules.
==Art==
__hitsugaya_toushirou_hyourinmaru_and_hyourinmaru_bleach_drawn_by_satsuki_kei__sample-eec97d0d370a1346ac7ca24f96a9def9.jpg

__portgas_d_ace_one_piece_drawn_by_tsuyomaru__sample-3d03477afddb9367b18628272dd72b25.jpg

e5do3lsjv4ua1.jpg

==Voting and Profile Links==

Icy Child Genius:
Fiery Child Genius:
Light-Like Child Genius:
 
Last edited:
==Introduction==
After a long wait, I decided to continue my "HST Showdown" series of threads. I recently remembered them, so I decided to check them out again. I saw the discussions they created, the debates that occurred in them. They were healthy and fun to participate in, and I miss those days. So, that's why I am continuing them.

It will be different than before in some ways. The requisite point total of five will now be increased to eight, to allow more debate to occur in future threads. Everything else, though, will remain the same. I will be open to changes, if necessary or helpful to the continued flourishing of the threads.

Additionally, as this is a continuation of a series of ongoing threads, it will continue where the previous thread left off.

For prior threads, see here.

==Central Theme==
The "central theme" of this thread is about Prodigies. A person who naturally excels at attaining mastery over a particular set of interest, beyond the rate in which normal individuals can hope to achieve. All three characters here are described as Prodigies and will be pitted against one another to see who the better prodigy of them is.

==Rules==
Since the rules have remained mostly the same, I will just take what I explained before and use it here.
Because of the large stat and hax discrepancy between all three verses, every single match will have stats equalized and Reiatsu Crush/Invisibility/Invulnerability for Souls within Bleach will be restricted for debate-sake, because If I didn’t then literally every single thread will be “Reiatsu Crush GG 🤓” and I don’t want that, I want actual debates. General Soul Manipulation through Zanpakutos are allowed, however.

Amps are usable, but Amps which provide "oneshot level" amps, as in amps which allow people to oneshot, tank, speedblitz etc. Something on that exact level isn't allowed and is restricted for fairness.

For further context on what "oneshot level" amps are, they're amplifications which increase a certain stat to the point that characters previously comparable to the character who used the amp, are completely and utterly incapable of tanking, damaging or reacting to that character. So, for an example; amps which amplify an attack by 10x wouldn't be allowed in these threads since a 7.5x differential between AP and Durability is considered a oneshot on the wiki.

Furthermore, an inconclusive ending to the thread will result in the decided verses each getting a point. So, for example, if a character from One Piece and Naruto have equal votes at the end of the thread, a point will be given to One Piece and Naruto respectively.

Location: Standard SBA Location - New York City, Central Park.

Distance: Standard SBA Distance - 4KM from each other.

==Forms and Mindset==
  • Tōshirō Hitsugaya - Post Training--starts in base but has access to Shikai and Bankai--his Adult Form is restricted, however.
  • Portgas D. Ace - Adult
  • Minato Namikaze - Alive Hokage Minato--starts in base but has access to Sage Mode and KCM forms.
All three characters are in-character, but willing to kill, basically bog-standard SBA rules.
==Art==
__hitsugaya_toushirou_hyourinmaru_and_hyourinmaru_bleach_drawn_by_satsuki_kei__sample-eec97d0d370a1346ac7ca24f96a9def9.jpg

__portgas_d_ace_one_piece_drawn_by_tsuyomaru__sample-3d03477afddb9367b18628272dd72b25.jpg

e5do3lsjv4ua1.jpg

==Voting and Profile Links==

Icy Child Genius:
Fiery Child Genius:
Light-Like Child Genius:
Chakra crush ggs🤓
 
I guess to start out with, what are the win conditions for Minato and Ace?
 
Truly two responses of all time.

We start off with Ace since both of you are more knowledgeable on him compared to Minato--how hot is Ace's fire?
 
Shouldn't this be in Fun & Games?

Following too

And Ace's Flame-Flame Fruit hard counters Toshiro's Hyorinmaru…
 
Last edited:
Probably somewhere around lightning heat tier since he can burn WB through his haki defense or something
Aint WB heat resistance scaled to the passive heat from akainu (vaping swords an stuff) or that is lower than lighting/ not aplicable?
 
???
Toshiro manipulate all water in the atmosphere. If anything, he hard counter ace.
Yeah… his Zanpakuto Needs moisture in the air to work….
And even then nothing, you said proves that he counters Ace's Flame-Flame Fruit. That makes No sense at all.

In fact, it says in his profile Ace can literally turn a cold blizzard into a clear hot sunny day…
 
Last edited:
Ace's profile causes me so much pain its so outdated and messy and rife with spelling errors....

In any case does Minato have anything that'd let him get around Ace's Logia intangibility? Toshiro can through his Bankai but I don't see something similar for Minato at a glance

From what I'm seeing their individual wincons go:

Toshiro: Big Bankai to just Absolute Zero freeze at huge range gg
Ace: Big Fire Fist to just burn inside out at huge range gg
Minato: Sealing and Flying Raijin combo? Reaper Death Seal could also work but it'd kill Minato so Incon for him? Minato is an EG so maybe bro uses his strategy can be viable here

Range I think is a pretty big factor here tbh, both Toshiro through Bankai and Ace through his fruit can outrange Minato and between Toshiro vs Ace, Ace can Haki-diff most of his stuff while directly countering Toshiro's Bankai mechanism since he can just burn up the moisture in the atmosphere (they both have similar ranges on their profile). Minato with Flying Raijin can circumvent this but it ultimately depends on what his winning moves would be on each opponent and he can only do 1 at a time, leaving him open to the other just doing a huge AOE attack

I wanna hear more about Minato's wincons before voting though

EDIT: I reread OP and saw it's not adult Toshi so he'd lose his Absolute Zero and Elemental NPI against Ace. IG he could potentially try for a Sealing and hope to like. make Ace drown himself? Outside of that though Ace's Fire should be hotter since he can clash with Aokiji's Ice which does have Absolute Zero
 
Last edited:
Probably somewhere around lightning heat tier since he can burn WB through his haki defense or something
I see. Yeah, since Toshiro doesn't have a specific and accepted value for his Ice Manipulation, outside of his Adult Form, I don't see him being able to freeze Ace.

Like, some arguments could be made for it being possible. But it isn't accepted currently, and I don't desire to introduce unaccepted values to this thread. So, until a value is proposed and accepted, I am fine with saying Ace would be able to bypass the Ice Manipulation.

I'll wait until more discussion happens before stating my opinion on who wins here. I like to see the Naruto side provide arguments; I think Minato has a better case (for now) of beating Ace compared to Toshiro.
 
I'd argue that Ace's Haki gives him a resistance to most of Minato's abilities, so he'd have to rely on his intelligence to pull off a win
 
Technically, I don't think anyone can interact with Ace's Logia Intangibility which is Elemental.

Toshiro as a Soul Reaper only has NPI of Intangibility (Immaterial), due to being able to ofc make contact with Pluses (intangible souls).

I guess you can argue Toshiro can try freezing him... But well Ace with his Flame-Flame Fruit has insane Heat and Temp, including it being Passive with Aura.
 
and ice (cancels each other out),
Not too sure about this. Ace cancelled out Kuzan's ice by evaporating it into steam, not the other way around. We've never seen ice counter fire before.
A lot of natural counters, unless you think I can't splash this mf Ace with a bottle of water
Ignoring the fact that water is a counter to all fruit users, I'd imagine that the water would evaporate rather than it being a Crocodile type of situation.
 
More than 1. Natural counter is both smoke (cancels each other out) and ice (cancels each other out), then magma ***** on em.

A lot of natural counters, unless you think I can't splash this mf Ace with a bottle of water
Smoke and Ice could counter out Ace's Fire in an equal blast but neither Smoker or Aokiji were able to hurt Ace solely through interacting with their elements, so while Toshi could technically interact with Ace via his Ice that wouldn't really capable of hurting Ace or putting him down. Without his Adult key abilities to actually hurt Ace, Toshi's best option would be trying to seal him with his ice, but even then Ace has equally clashed and countered out Aokiji's Ice which, at least compared to this base Toshi key, was much colder, so I don't think sealing would help Toshi here

erhm he could just haki diff a water bottle??? smh my head
Toshi's water manip wouldn't exactly help him here since it's from his Bankai's ability to manipulate the moisture in the atmosphere to make Ice, and since Ace was just capable of stopping Drum Island's blizzard just from being in it, I don't see why it couldn't be a similar counter here
 
Minato doesn't have access to KCM in this key.
I know, it was decided back in the day to ignore that fact and just give to him anyway. But thinking about it more, it's best to remove that. If I don't believe we can appeal to unaccepted values, I also shouldn't be fine with giving forms that technically aren't applicable here.
 
that man only got kcm when he dead and when he dead he immortal
 
Minato summons Gamabunta or another to spit water on Ace for the GG.

And then he just Rasengans Toshiro to death.
 
Even then, it has to be water from the Sea...
It can be any type of water, but he has to be submerged and held submerged underwater, so just dousing him wouldn't really do anything aside from like the stats of giant glob of water hitting him, only Crocodile has the specific logia weakness of becoming tangible when wet due to his specific element

And yeah there's nothing stopping him from just vaporizing it on contact or prior to hitting him

EDIT: Actually, Minato (nor any of them) don't have prior knowledge either so like would that even be his opening move?
 
Back
Top