Nullflowerblush
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That, and the Ultra Divine Water draws out its drinker's hidden power, which is how transformations work.
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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
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Killerdrone123
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Killerdrone123
He/Him- 1,680
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Killerdrone123
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Underlining stuff is fun
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Isn’t it also said in one scan to bring out the potential/power of an Oozaru in a scan?
Nullflowerblush
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Draws out "any and all" hidden strength + "stimulates the memory of the super-powered Great Ape that lies dormant inside Goku".
I only hope that'll be enough.
I only hope that'll be enough.
- Had they continued fighting, Tien Shinhan would have defeated Master Roshi. >29.6 Exatons (5-C)
- (180) Surpasses the likes of Raditz Saga Yamcha (177), who, himself, surpassed Roshi by the time of the Piccolo Jr. Saga.
- Using the Four Witches Technique, Tien doubles his "attack power" (攻撃力, Kōgekiryoku). >59.2 Exatons
- Old King Piccolo floored Goku and no-sold a Kamehameha without exerting even half strength. >118.4 Exatons
- By drinking the Ultra Divine Water, Goku's hidden power, including that of the Great Ape, is drawn out to its limits. >1.184 Zettatons (Low 5-B)
- After training under Kami and Mr. Popo, Goku's strength nearly doubled. >~2.368 Zettatons
I've never heard of this, actually. I'll have to look into it.
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he should for other reasons........but not this one alone, it wouldn't be enough
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Doesn't this just refer to him having double the number of arms rather than say his Ki or his Attack Potency being multiplied?
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i wouldn't say "predicting 0.5 seconds into the future" would count as doing several mental calculations to accurately predict the future, that sounds more like normal Analitical Prediction than anything, specially when the feat is not even hit going to the future, but him time stopping
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Yeah that's the nonsensical part (along with Hit only doing 1 punch)
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The problem here, in my opinion, is that Hit’s power improves and he can vary his use. For example, while predicting .1 seconds can be “easy,” predicting .2, .3, a whole second, and then several seconds are just demonstrably harder to do. We also know Hit doesn’t “just punch.” He takes several actions within Skipped Time, meaning Goku has to predict each one, and as Time Skip grows, so too does the complexity of the prediction because Hit simply has more actions to take. This is especially tricky when Hit can simply elect not to use the full power of Time Skip and vary how much time he Skips. Sure, his limit can be 5 seconds, but we know he can use as low as .01 anyway despite his 5 second window.
That means Goku has to accurately predict not just the standard limit, but if Hit will go under. And as Time Skip increases passively, over. (So for example: Limit is 5 Seconds.
5 Second Skip -> 2 Second Skip -> 1 Second Skip -> 6 Second Skip -> 3 Second Skip -> 5 Second Skip -> 7 Second Skip.
(This is very clearly seen when Hit goes from minor increases into a massive time jump that allows him to utterly wreck Goku.)
Annnnd this is also ignoring Hit’s movements are purposely hidden via Baki Hand Pocket logic, making him impossible to be read, so this prediction Set is made progressively harder. Hit in the Anime also changes stances to best utilize his new stats and powers, which means Goku also had to analyze whatever differences there are that bolster Hit and compensate to account for that in his prediction/calculation. On top of that, Goku has to literally account for the unaccounted, such as if Hit had secretly been withholding projectiles to use, or any stance changes Mid-Skip, etc. Countless variables.
It’s still definitely Analytical Prediction, but it’s a high level of predictive skill that has to keep getting better in order to compensate for Hit’s passive developmental abilities.
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its either stupid high analytical prediction or just passive RE or something else entirely
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Nullflowerblush
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Given he "concentrates power" (力を込め, chikara o kome), like a super move, and how its sister Multi-Form Technique functions,—splitting Tien's body and strength by fourths,—odds are the technique increases his Attack Potency. That, and he attacks with twice the number of arms simultaneously.
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in the case of the initial 0.1 time skip, he only did a punch, as for the later times...
his limit is not 5 seconds, it is 0.5 seconds, aka merely 1/50 of a second, that is the max he shows using, and when he reached that point Goku was unable to predict him in any way, only overpowering him once he reached Kaioken + Blue to break through his Time Skip
passively? from what i remember in the fight, it got better only after Hit did a "powered up himself" like pose
also..........he never does a full second time skip, at max he says stuff like 0.5, it is always fractions and not full seconds, also........hit never said to have done this? but it has been a while since i saw the fight admittedly, could you show me this?
which Goku is unable to predict in any capacity
Which Goku fails to do later on in the fight, also, i don't remember an exact statement for the hidden movement part, could you show me?
Which Goku was completely unable to do once Hit advanced his Time Skip, the only way he was able to beat it once hit advanced was with Kaioken making him ignore the time stop in the first place
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it is.........only looking fractions of seconds into the future tho? like......yeah it is good, but i don't how it is much better than the norm
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its very clearly an immeasurable speed feat for Kaioken X10 Goku but the wiki aint ready for that yet
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Killerdrone123
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I thought you were making a joke dude
No, that isn't what it means, it could be 20D time even, it literally doesn't matter, you're confusing dimensionality with the actual quantifiable passage of time.
The ToP, uses earth minutes, explicitly, time that is both quantifiable and understandable, and yet, even while fighting at an alleged imm speed form, time passes. This should not occur, he should be fighting at such a speed that no time passes, none, zero, nothing. He's demonstrably not even infinite let alone imm. It being 5D time, doesn't magically mean Goku gets slower, or that time passes anyway.
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nah 5D time would ensure that there is a "higher temporal" dimension that Goku cant exactly navigate like he can the 4D temporal dimension with his alleged immeasurable speed. This is why verses with 5D (or higher) immeasurable speed > verses with 4D immeasurable speedI thought you were making a joke dude
No, that isn't what it means, it could be 20D time even, it literally doesn't matter, you're confusing dimensionality with the actual quantifiable passage of time.
The ToP, uses earth minutes, explicitly, time that is both quantifiable and understandable, and yet, even while fighting at an alleged imm speed form, time passes. This should not occur, he should be fighting at such a speed that no time passes, none, zero, nothing. He's demonstrably not even infinite let alone imm. It being 5D time, doesn't magically mean Goku gets slower, or that passes anyway.
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also I'm pretty sure this is why DBH's immeasurable speed is above every 4D verse now
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Literally no.
That not only isn't how it works, you realize the fact ANY time at all passes, at all, even 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 second, at all, while fighting, means imm Goku is bullshit and demonstrably false.
5D time doesn't change the fact that literal quantifiable A to B seconds pass. We're talking about speed dude, you're basically saying it being 5D time would make it ok if it took Goku a year to run 10m, a below human feat, but he'd be imm still because it took place in 5D time (never stated btw). That quite simply isn't how it works.
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you don't understand how immeasurable speed works. immeasurable speed treats time as just another "spatial" dimension that the traveler can fly through normally. This is how every character with immeasurable speed works. however when you have 5D time, this then adds another "dimension" that you cant access or fly through normally (unless you prove you can) like you can with the "lower" temporal dimension. that's why that temporal dimension can affect you normally with you not being able to traverse through it. again this is literally why verses with higher dimensional immeasurable speeds are far faster than those that are 4D at best.
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I hope no one is arguing that Goku has immeasurable speed.
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I'm not. i'm just showing why the ToP isnt the "aha!" that he thinks it is
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I mean you could say Goku feats against Hit are immeasurable, now whether you think that's a outliner or not is a different story.
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looking at the thread's previous conversations about it, it is decidedly an immeasurable speed feat but its just such a huge outlier its not used. Still a good feat though for when someone tries to wank a character against Goku
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Are you really trying to argue speed standards with me? None of this even tackles the blatant and demonstrable contradiction that is the ToP all while misunderstanding Imm speed yourself.
Everything you just said, is simply a byproduct of said speed, the speed itself is still fast and all that other funny stuff. If it wasn't, it'd just be simple time travel and dimensional range. You're conflating Imm speed being a byproduct of time travel, when really, time travel is just a byproduct of having imm speed. As such, when the apparent Imm Goku consistently shows that time, earth time explicitly because they note that in particular, still moves on, wether it's 5D or 500D, windows of reference are given when said windows shouldn't have happened at the alleged speed.
Notwithstanding Goku very, very, blatantly doesn't treat time as another movement axis anyway.
I mean, yeah it is a feat, and yeah that fight is technically Imm in a vacuum. But it's contradicted to hell and back. I hate calling stuff outliers, but this is definitely one such time it would be, it'd be like if Kid Goku blew up a universe, and then got his ass beat by an 8-C, and then DB plays out normally where Goku gets mogged by 8-Bs, 7-Cs, and more and then uni stuff comes back in again at Beerus.
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I'm not even gonna try to read any of that but i came up with something else that does contradict the 5D/hypertime argument way better than whatever you probably said. Goku countered Hit's timeskip in the neutral zone which shouldn't have ANY temporal dimension other than the timeline's higher temporal dimension itself, which means that Goku moves through that dimension. however the fact that time still affects him in stronger forms suggests that it probably was just an outlier even if I make the hypertime argument
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Technically the DBH lads also had the TOP timer thing
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