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Ultima_Reality

Ultima_Reality

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  • LazyMortician
    Suppose it is stated that a verse has limitless planes of existence. Later, it was stated that the verse has infinite dimensions and that all dimensions are boundless. What does it give to be qualitatively superior to these dimensions?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    If you're qualitatively superior to the spacetime of those dimensions, that's Low 1-C (Assuming "dimensions" are just planes that is)
    Phsccarvalho
    Eseseso
    Hey, quick question for ya since you know more about Gutter Space's cosmology in Marvel than anyone else:

    When Gwenpool in The Unbelievable Gwenpool #23 sent Doctor Doom (or rather, an incarnation of Doctor Doom that is literally his pre-Secret Wars evil self, so no different in power from his normal villain self) to Gutter Space, which is the white void outside of the comic's panels that asides from being outside the Marvel Multiverse is also unaffected by retcons and from which all of Marvel's continuity is accessible (and Gwenpool had even claimed that she had erased Doom from Marvel's existence), Doom managed to easily escape this dimension and return to the normal one, despite Gwenpool essentially removing him from the plot.

    In fact, he was unaffected by being in Gutter Space at a point where he was looking down at the plot as a narrative.

    Since Doctor Doom had no issue returning from Gutter Space, would this give him resistance to Plot Manipulation and/or resistance to BFR? Would he get some type of Acausality or resistance to Causality Manipulation? Resistance to EE based on Gwenpool's statement? Resistance to Space-Time Manipulation and/or Void Manipulation?


    In addition, since he had no issue traveling from this dimension back to the normal Marvel multiverse, and as support the Infamous Iron Man (aka Doom with Iron Man's armor but the same magic and stuff as standard Doom) could easily go here as well, does that increase the range of Doom to the scope of Marvel's multiverse with portals?

    Something like "XXX with portals"?
    • Like
    Reactions: Huesito88
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Honestly? I'd consider Doom coming back from Gutterspace to be moreso the result of the properties of the realm itself, since it, first and foremost, is a mode of perception that in principle anyone may access. There's plenty of occasions where Doom couldn't come back after being BFR'd to lesser things, after all.
    Eseseso
    Eseseso
    Ok, thank you.

    Damn, was really hoping this would give Doom some nice resistances, like resistance to Existence Erasure, Fate Manipulation, Causality Manipulation, and/or to Plot Manipulation. Oh well.
    Zer00Negativo
    Ei mano eu tava dando uma olhada na pagina do sistema de tier e não entendi uma coisa, como algo que transcede o conceito de dimensão/espaço-tempo ainda ser limitado por dimensões? Isso não faz sentido, uma coisa e transceder dimensões e ai tudo bem, outra coisa é transceder o próprio conceito se o conceito é uma ideia, a propria definição em si, ou seja tudo aquilo que nós conseguimos entender, imaginar, teorizar, pensar ou atribuir um significado, tudo isso ta dentro do conceito então não acho que isso tem haver com quantas dimensões o verso possui, digamos que exista um verso onde só existe um universo 4D porém algo como por exemplo um reino de Deus ou o mundo das formas seja diretamente citado como transcedendo o conceito de dimensão não tem ele ser classificado como 5D, 6D e etc pq tudo isso ainda esta no conceito dimensão, por exemplo a geometria euclidiana (finito) e o espaço de hilbert (infinitos) são duas teorias opostas porém ainda sim trabalham com a ideia de dimensões ou seja esta contido no conceito então algo q ta além do conceito não pode ser definido por algo finito ou infinito.

    Isso não tem haver com nenhum verso em específico, ou só li a pagina do sistema e não entendi muito bem pois da a entender q um verso precisa necessariamente uma cosmologia high 1-B pra se qualificar pra 1-A, e também o fato de eu ter percebido q o pessoal confunde um pouco estar além de x coisa com estar além do conceito de x coisa
    PrinceStories
    Hello ultima sorry to bother you, I wanted to ask if you think Owen reece is much stronger than Oblivion?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    If you take Oblivion to be just the Far Shore, then, Owen is indeed far above him, yes.
    I have a question about a low 1c example

    Say you have a set of 10 universes, each separate space times

    They are contained in a space, that separates them, that space also contains numerous other stars and debris within its space, and time abilities work there



    1) would it be a higher spatial dimension than the universes?
    2) would time related abilities working signify that it has its own temporal axis separate from the universes (basically 3d+2d)?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    1) Yes.

    2) Not really, no. By our standards, two or more universes can be separate spacetimes even if they share the same temporal dimension, after all.
    ArcaneAbyss
    Thank you very much, but what if that space that separates them is also under a timeline...would the timeline then be low 1c too?
    Sasukesama0492
    Hi, I have a question: "would a universe with nonlinear time still be 4-dimensional?". I came across 2 definitions of nonlinear time:
    1. Time is not divided into past, present and future. Everything happens at the same time, so there is only 1 moment (I think in this sense the universe should not be low 2c)
    2.The progression of time is not uniform or predictable in the traditional sense, so it does not follow a linear sequence. That is, in linear time, events occur in chronological order, one after the other, without any deviation or change in the flow of time. But in a non-linear time frame, time can exhibit irregularities, loops or variations that deviate from the traditional linear order.(but I think this is still enough for the universe to be low 2c)

    If we just know that time is non-linear without extra context which of these two should we use?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    I don't believe we would assume either scenario without extra context elaborating on what exactly the "non-linear time" is.

    That said: The first option would indeed still allow for the universe to be Low 2-C, provided you mean that "past, present and future" don't exist in the same that the universe is one huge monolith where no actual progression of events exists. All that is, was and will be just existing as different parts of that "block," so to speak.

    Really, the only way you'd be able to make a universe in its entirety not be Low 2-C would be if the verse followed Presentism. That is to say, there is no actual past or future which you can travel to, only an everchanging flow of events.
    Tdjwo
    Hello Ultima.

    A while ago, I requested your opinion regarding a crt talking about a High 1B universe in which you responded that you agreed with the statement being High 1B but weren't fully convinced on it applying to the universe. Newerand concrete arguments have been made to solidify the High 1B statement applying to the universe such as this and this but it seems you haven't seen them. Can I know where your stance is right now at this point? Are you still leaning towards of it being just an High 1B statement or do you now believe that the High 1B statement applies to the universe? I would appreciate if you could input your response in this crt.
    Thanks.
    PrinceStories
    Hi, I wanted to ask you about Thread Revising Marvel's Abstracts part 2 you create, did you scale Oblivion above Eternity Eight Cosmos?
    Quantu
    Hello, I heard you were planning on doing revisions on The Big Lez show in the future. Was wondering if 1-A Sassy will stay/and or get bumped up, and if you have any blog/sandbox currently regarding the cosmology?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Sassy's 1-A is staying, yeah. I don't have anything written as of yet, but I should get to it soon enough. Not like it's that long of an endeavor.
    • Like
    Reactions: Quantu
    Quantu
    Quantu
    No worries. It was just something that crossed my mind recently, thinking about how the infinite dimensions within the box, the seemingly infinite recursion of Paint and all fit in with the newer stuff, like the "ultra mega multiverses" and the plane of existence of Sassy's true form etc.
    Muchacho_mrm
    Hey, if you're interested this thread exists which is basically whether or not the wiki draws the line on paradoxical (transdual) states at r>f/not-r>f. Both in tiering and in paradoxical states.
    Eseseso
    Btw, in Secret Wars #10 (the 1984 one), it's stated that Mephisto's realm is extra-dimensional. Not sure if that improves Hell-Lord scaling what with all these upcoming Marvel upgrades but worth noting.
    View previous comments…
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Molecule Man is pretty variable, tier-wise. Most likely he'll be something like "Varies. High 1-B to Low 1-A depending on his mental state."
    Eseseso
    Eseseso
    For pre-Secret Wars? That makes sense.

    Thank you!
    Eseseso
    Eseseso
    I was just asking since Reed Richards's mind resistance (and possession resistance) scale to Molecule Man, whose P&A potency scales to his AP due to the way his powers work.
    Excellence616
    Hello!
    Really need your help in this thread.
    vsbattles.com

    Low 1-C neutral space dbs

    Hello all, this thread we are going to be going over the neutral space, which made its first appearance in dragon ball super. Introduction. First off, we need to go over what the neutral space even is. The neutral zone is a space that surrounds all of the 12 universes. This space was used for...
    vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
    They are using your arguments as a justification.

    Please 🙏, we need you to check if they are right.
    Eseseso
    Donatien
    Hello. I was wondering something about what you said in this thread. How come another axis is necessary to simultaneously encompass a space and comprise an area external to it? I suppose this would be true if the space is "external" to the other space in the sense that they have no overlap. In that case, an additional axis would be necessary to separate the two (like how a second dimensional axis would be necessary to separate parallel lines). However, neither space would necessary have an extra dimension. Only the space that contains the two would need another dimension. This doesn't scale anywhere according to our standards since destroying an infinite 4-D multiverse is still considered 2-A despite needing a 5th axis to separate the spacetime continuums within it.

    Thank you for the "long line" example. I do think there are other ways to separate the spaces without an additional axis though.
    • Like
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    View previous comments…
    Donatien
    Donatien
    What I don't get is how it being observed as an external force makes a difference, requiring an extra dimensional axis. Wouldn't part of an encompassing space already be observed as an "external force" by default and by definition?

    Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "external force." Is the realm entirely external as opposed to being partially external? And why is another axis necessary?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    It wouldn't be, no. For example, compare the real line to the long line: If you start as the former, and then extend into the latter, you're not really reaching outside of the axis that already exists, just "stretching" it a bit (For lack of a better reason). To get truly outside of that space, you would need to not be in any of the coordinate points laid out over that single axis, and for that you require a second dimension.
    Donatien
    Donatien
    I still think there's ways for that area to not scale to Low 1-C, and even a way for that area to be separated without having an additional axis.

    A fifth axis could exist, but the two spaces would be separated by an infinitesimal distance along the 5th dimensional axis. The space would be 5th dimensional, but the 5th dimension could simply be compactified.

    Alternatively, the external space could be separated from the encompassed space by quantum decoherence. Despite still being in the same 4D spacetime, the external space would be separated by quantum decoherence, thus making it separate and external due to not being able to interact with each other. Hopefully I'm not misunderstanding how MWI and quantum decoherence work.
    Eseseso
    Hey Ultima, I was rereading the 1984 Secret Wars and I was wondering: How can Galactus be High 1-B via chain-scaling above the Cosmic Cubes (via Mad Celestial Scaling) when the Beyonder, who is a Cosmic Cube, in Secret Wars 1984 utterly dwarfed him in power and stomped both him and a Doctor Doom who had stolen Galactus's power?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Galactus canonically heavily varies in power based on how well-fed he is. So he can go from being weaker than a failed Cosmic Cube to Celestial level on a dime.

    He has other High 1-B feats, anyway. He fought Agamotto to a stalemate one time, so he certainly gets scaling from Slorioth. And he, of course, is evenly matched with Odin in his hungrier states.
    Eseseso
    Eseseso
    That all makes sense, especially the Agamotto part.

    Tbh, I am curious as to how the Odin-lvl people scale to High 1-B. I don't recall the skyfathers having any infinite-dimensional scaling.
    Eseseso
    Eseseso
    Also, what will starving Galactus scale to? Even if moderately fed Galactus scales to High 1-B, will starving Galactus still be 2-C?
    Tdjwo
    Hello Ultima. Do you know what tier a character that's able to destroy "all space which contains all logical coordinates using an ability that evokes non-euclidean geometry?
    LazyMortician
    Hello and good day, Ultima. I have a question for you.

    For example, the cosmology of a verse was presented to us in 6D. But later it was noted that it is included in infinite layers. In this verse, does the QS between one layer prove the QS between all the other layers? The QS example is this: One has nothing but physical realms, but the other has abstract realms/spaces that transcend physical realms. Do you think it is enough for QS?
    Gasper
    Do you have any plans for Cthulhu mythos? Their profiles are pretty garbo and outdated at this point.
    Yagooo
    Are u brazillian? Se for, olá.
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Sou.
    Yagooo
    Yagooo
    Me dizeram que foi você que criou o Tiering System. Na verdade, a criação do mesmo leva créditos ao Galaxy Pyron, certo?
    Eseseso
    Hi!

    I just heard that you are planning an upgrade for Marvel's Thor.

    Would it be possible to get some more info on that?
    DaReaperMan
    Somehow I feel letting this be settled by democracy is not the most prudent road to take, but, if that's what everyone ie fine with, then it's how it be. (Although your use of the word "decree" makes me laugh a bit)
    Click to expand...

    Palpatine would not approve of this message
    Gasper
    Hi, sorry to bother you but do you plan on making any revisions on WOD?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    I'd like to, yeah.
    • Like
    Reactions: Gasper
    Gasper
    Gasper
    Do you have any scaling in mind?

    Some of the profiles are very outdated too.
    Gasper
    Hi i would just want to ask, will you make a separate profile for those who sit above in shadow or will they merge with beyonders?
    ThanatosX
    Hi, I'm sorry to bother you, but I would have a question for you. I am discussing with someone about our standards for being above baseline, and we disagree with something. Basically, a character is able to destroy an infinite amount of 6-D structures, and they say that this makes the character infinitely above baseline 6-D both in Range and AP. However, I don't agree with this notion since a 6-D realm would already be a bigger infinite, so multiplying it for an infinite amount would still make it the same infinite that makes our baseline for 6-D, at least from my limited knowledge of this kind of stuff. Would you be able to tell me if destroying an infinite amount of 6-D structures would actually qualify for "infinite above baseline 6-D" in AP and Range or not?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Depends on the specifics of the 6-D things being destroyed. A 6-dimensional structure isn't necessarily Low 1-C, so the feat being High 3-A for example is a feasible scenario.

    Now, suppose that the verse defines higher-dimensional objects as all being infinitely higher in power. If each 6-D structure being destroyed is finitely large (i.e Its 6-D volume is finite, not its 3-D volume), then, yeah, destroying them all would be "infinitely above baseline Low 1-C."

    If the 6-D structures all have infinite 6-D volume, though, then if the above condition holds, destroying even a single one already makes you infinitely above "baseline" Low 1-C. Destroying more doesn't add to that, though, no.
    ThanatosX
    ThanatosX
    This is interesting, I didn't knew that that's how it works. Thank you very much for the answer!
    The_Yellow_Topaz
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