Lifting Strength Vs Punching Strength (Tatsumaki vs Broly | 22 - 37 - 1)

[Baken384]

LS Meta getting love…

 

[Kachon123]

Danmaku has never been an issue for Tatsumaki. She could deal with this while bleeding out.

Also, with the LS difference, what's stopping her from doing these to any of Broly's attacks?

 

[Hecky2222]

Tatsumaki got my LoTM Atoms blessings

Sorry not sorry

 

[BoastJr]

NEVER FORGET THE POWER OF LIFTING STRENGTH ! WITHOUT LS EVEN AP BECOMES MEANINGLESS IN TIER 2 ! LIFTING STRENGTH DESTROYS

Jotaro... tatsumaki.. spiderman.. all the best users of LS

 

[Dalesean027]

LS does it again, Tats FRA

 

[MrTayman616]

This is fun and all but it also feels wrong.

 

[IDK3465]

THE LS META NEVER DIES. MAY ALL FALL BENEATH THE POWER OF FORCE
TATSUMAKI FRA

 

[DemonicDude]

This one would end in a date

 

[Cipher72]

Voting @Phoenks FRA. LS meta strikes again

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

This is fun and all but it also feels wrong.

Nah, I feel like the first few times it was quite fun but now it’s getting quite repetitive. We already got the hint, under the current standards LS is typically more favoured compared to some brute or AP dominant character. The way this MU has been shaped makes it so that Tatsumaki wins more times than not. This could’ve been any other character who has ways around her psychokinesis and can at least outmanoeuvre her IC.

That said I still don’t see why Broly’s pressure wouldn’t kill her.

It can be accessible to all ki users, such as how Ki blast is. We're talking about what Broly will do here, though. Him being able to do so doesn't mean he will. Let alone immediately, which is what he must do in order to have the slightiest chance to win.

AFAIK this was said before bloodlusting Broly but since bloodlusting is applicable to Broly now I think it’s well within character to do so. If Tatsumaki tries flying away wouldn’t that just anger Broly? He’s fixated on trying to pulverise and kill his enemy, he’s pretty much an apex predator trying to eradicate his target. Why couldn’t Broly’s aura or Ki expand as far as 4D ranges? Isn’t that what Ki does by default at a certain level? BoG is quite literally a blatant tell. I should also note that it’s bloodlusting on top of the anger Super Saiyan which by virtue thrives on rage.

If Tatsumaki stops being flinched before Broly attacks her, he binds him in place.

If his aura is the problem, she can fly away or push Broly back at higher speed her aura approaches at (if we allow her possibly Rel+ rating) and evade the attack, then push him back into space.

Pushing Broly back is probably a valid means of separating the two but it would only anger Broly more. I don’t see why Broly at this point wouldn’t just use AOE attacks. I’m not saying he’s going to blow up the multiverse just that he’ll use attacks Tatsumaki physically cannot evade. She’d have to deal with projectiles coming from all directions and the aura which is going to inevitably affect her possibly even kill her.

You answered the comment where I was talking about that, not Broly's aura attacking Tatsumaki. Flinching because of SI happens regardless of your AP, btw.

Isn’t SI in DB noted as it only taking effect if your opponent or yourself shows superior Ki? It also involves sensing power level OR just being within their range. I’m aware flinching can happen regardless of AP but with how it’s treated in Dragon Ball, AP is usually the norm for SI’ing weaker characters. Goku’s case of overwhelming pressure or SI is unconventional and if you’re trying to say AP in this context wouldn’t matter it would considering Broly’s aura is exuding 2-C amounts of AP and he can in theory explode himself which is nothing new. Goku has done it before Broly can too. He doesn’t care. He wants to kill Tatsumaki.

That’s just my opinion not like it matters since people are voting more in favour of Tatsumaki so it’s probably just best to let this be concluded

 

[Kachon123]

Pushing Broly back is probably a valid means of separating the two but it would only anger Broly more. I don’t see why Broly at this point wouldn’t just use AOE attacks. I’m not saying he’s going to blow up the multiverse just that he’ll use attacks Tatsumaki physically cannot evade. She’d have to deal with projectiles coming from all directions and the aura which is going to inevitably affect her possibly even kill her.

Tatsumaki would just send Broly to space. Broly's projectiles are irrelevant FRA.

Broly's aura/pressure is also a non-factor

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

Tatsumaki would just send Broly to space. Broly's projectiles are irrelevant FRA.

Broly's aura/pressure is also a non-factor

Could I have a scan of Tatsumaki sending someone to space? Also, if Tatsumaki isn’t stabilising Broly from space then why couldn’t he just fly back down and continue as normal? Broly technically doesn’t even need to fly back down he could act from a distance, at the stratosphere or upper atmosphere. Are you trying to say that she would shrink his aura into nothing or his projectiles? Does she having any means of sensing energy? Ki doesn’t need to be visibly shown to instil effects in questions. Why would it be a non factor assuming your GIF has no involvement with aura?

 

[Kachon123]

Could I have a scan of Tatsumaki sending someone to space?

Also, if Tatsumaki isn’t stabilising Broly from space then why couldn’t he just fly back down and continue as normal?

With that LS difference, Broly will get flung uncontrollably for far too long.

Broly technically doesn’t even need to fly back down he could act from a distance, at the stratosphere or upper atmosphere.

Outer space is beyond the stratosphere or upper atomsphere.

Are you trying to say that she would shrink his aura into nothing or his projectiles?

She could do it to both actually.

Does she having any means of sensing energy? Ki doesn’t need to be visibly shown to instil effects in questions

Yes Tatsumaki can sense energy.

 

[Killerdrone123]

Danmaku @Killerdrone123 purposed is a better option, though again we're seeing those blasts too condensated because the distance between Goku and Broly is really small there. Here we're at 100m of difference. At that distance, Tatsumaki would have far easier evading them, and she doesn't need to get near Broly, just push him into space like she tried with Saitama.

I am talking about when broly was cornered by Goku and Vegeta ssjb and he just fired a very large amount of ki blasts in every direction those went for more than 100m

Also I am more so looking at the fact how would Broly's RE react to tatsumaki tk like he could just RE through it just like he did with Goku like he would RE to the ability itself is making him be unaffected by it regardless of potency

Also no tatsumaki isn't nullifying any of broly ki attacks given she has never shown to just fade away an attack of tier 2 potency and energy not to mention they would just explode and it takes a single attack to pulverize tatsumaki not to mention he can just explode his aura(2.21)

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

Yes Tatsumaki can sense energy.

I’ve been told Ki and whatever energy she senses can’t be equalised so she cannot sense Ki. The only way she’d know energy distribution is present is if Broly does an action which requires him to reveal his Ki.

She could do it to both actually.

She’d need to sense his aura first if it’s in an invisible state otherwise she has no way of knowing. I’m not sure if prior knowledge accounts for that or not. If it doesn’t she would be equally affected and would face the consequences.

Outer space is beyond the stratosphere or upper atomsphere.

Broly should be able to stop himself from going that far. Is it pushing him to space with TK or is it physically lifting him there all while restricting movement? If it’s just pushing him I don’t see how this is any different to Kiai. Plus this;



I sincerely don’t see this working and if we’re going to specifics there’s also just Z vanishing. Yeah Z vanishing is capable moving yourself from harms way but that’s something that happens in XV2 with instant rise which is fundamentally the same as Z vanishing. I don’t know if we can equalise the two since XV2 is non canon but the description given is pretty much akin to how Z vanishing is presented.

There’s this too;



I’m pretty sure Ki users in general should have self momentum too which just casually puts this TK thing to a halt.

 

[Epiccheev]

This one would end in a date

The greenest couple after Hulk and the grinch

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

Also I am more so looking at the fact how would Broly's RE react to tatsumaki tk like he could just RE through it just like he did with Goku like he would RE to the ability itself is making him be unaffected by it regardless of potency

This is a good argument actually. From the GIF he sent the TK seems to distribute energy or psychokinesis energy I think it was? If they’re connected to Tatsumaki just like how Goku’s Ki was connecting to Broly’s it’s very likely that Broly’s aura would envelope her. I’m unsure of whether she’d be stabilised like with Goku’s example but the Ki should in theory automatically diff her.

 

[Kachon123]

I’ve been told Ki and whatever energy she senses can’t be equalised so she cannot sense Ki. The only way she’d know energy distribution is present is if Broly does an action which requires him to reveal his Ki.

She’d need to sense his aura first if it’s in an invisible state otherwise she has no way of knowing. I’m not sure if prior knowledge accounts for that or not. If it doesn’t she would be equally affected and would face the consequences.

It doesn't matter if the specific energies can be equalized or not. Broly is very strong and OPM characters (Tatsumaki included) can sense that power as an aura.

Broly should be able to stop himself from going that far. Is it pushing him to space with TK or is it physically lifting him there all while restricting movement? If it’s just pushing him I don’t see how this is any different to Kiai. Plus this;



I sincerely don’t see this working and if we’re going to specifics there’s also just Z vanishing. Yeah Z vanishing is capable moving yourself from harms way but that’s something that happens in XV2 with instant rise which is fundamentally the same as Z vanishing. I don’t know if we can equalise the two since XV2 is non canon but the description given is pretty much akin to how Z vanishing is presented.

There’s this too;



I’m pretty sure Ki users in general should have self momentum too which just casually puts this TK thing to a halt.

The issue is that Tatsumaki simply has far greater LS. Broly would be able to stop himself if the amount of force he's being launched with is within the amount he can handle, but since it's not, he'd just continue getting ragdolled

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

It doesn't matter if the specific energies can be equalized or not. Broly is very strong and OPM characters (Tatsumaki included) can sense that power as an aura.

Fair enough but I’m not buying how she’ll know if it’s not in a state of being flexed. Broly would have to be charging up like how Saitama was. Broly can obviously do that considering he’s bloodlusted and his gimmick is getting beat up and AD come into play but that isn’t what this is. He’ll go for the kill, he’s already powered up.

Edit: just realised the immense Ki scan. How does Ki work in OPM?

The issue is that Tatsumaki simply has far greater LS. Broly would be able to stop himself if the amount of force he's being launched with is within the amount he can handle, but since it's not, he'd just continue getting ragdolled

I forgot Broly is in FPSS so he actually doesn’t need RE. He already has reverse God Bind which would just induce paralysis on Tatsumaki. I don’t think TK and paralysis inducement can be equalised and unless she resists the latter she isn’t getting out of it. Even if we argue she does Broly would just lead with a punch or even worse just output enough Ki to kill her (she’d already be dead since his Ki alone is infinities superior). While it’s not passive the inducement of paralysis happened when Broly decided to reveal his aura. The aura acted as tendrils to reach Goku and keep him in place. The same would happen with Tatsumaki and from the example shown I believe Tatsumaki requires gestures to TK no? Broly responds accordingly to her trying to TK him to space IMO.

 

[Kachon123]

Fair enough but I’m not buying how she’ll know if it’s not in a state of being flexed. Broly would have to be charging up like how Saitama was. Broly can obviously do that considering he’s bloodlusted and his gimmick is getting beat up and AD come into play but that isn’t what this is. He’ll go for the kill, he’s already powered up.

When Ki is flared an energy that can be sensed is released

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

@Tatsumi504- I mean Tatsumaki FRA.

 

[Kachon123]

I forgot Broly is in FPSS so he actually doesn’t need RE. He already has reverse God Bind which would just induce paralysis on Tatsumaki. I don’t think TK and paralysis inducement can be equalised and unless she resists the latter she isn’t getting out of it. Even if we argue she does Broly would just lead with a punch or even worse just output enough Ki to kill her (she’d already be dead since his Ki alone is infinities superior). While it’s not passive the inducement of paralysis happened when Broly decided to reveal his aura. The aura acted as tendrils to reach Goku and keep him in place. The same would happen with Tatsumaki and from the example shown I believe Tatsumaki requires gestures to TK no? Broly responds accordingly to her trying to TK him to space IMO.

Tatsumaki doesn't require a gesture for her TK.

Reverse God Bind wouldn't work. She also has a barrier that would repel it back onto him

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

When Ki is flared an energy that can be sensed is released

How does Ki function in OPM and iirc these arguments weren’t valid in previous threads. DB and OPM both possessing Ki doesn’t make them equal. If OPM can sense life energy then they should in theory be able to sense Ki. But with this video I don’t see anything suggesting they can sense life energy. Just Ki which can’t be defaulted to DB’s.

Tatsumaki doesn't require a gesture for her TK.

Reverse God Bind wouldn't work. She also has a barrier that would repel it back onto him

She isn’t given preparation time but prior knowledge. “Precaution” here implies she needed time to plan it out and that it isn’t instant. Again, I’ve got no knowledge on OPM so I’d need to know. In one scan it shows her using it and in the other it’s implying she had to set it up. Either way it’s not repelling Broly’s 2-C energy. That’s just straight up NLF. Even if it does he’s very much capable of moving while exuding paralysis inducement and he can shatter that barrier along with Tatsumaki into oblivion. Eh Broly can also ignore the barrier and target internal structures but it’s not something he does IC or at all but on second thoughts he is bloodlusted so it’s likely. Even if he doesn’t target internal structures he’d just punch through the barrier and kill Tatsumaki altogether. Space Time destruction shenanigans (DOSL and DBS Broly). He doesn’t even really need that even a flick would kill her but yeah it’ll be overkill.

 

[Kachon123]

How does Ki function in OPM and iirc these arguments weren’t valid in previous threads. DB and OPM both possessing Ki doesn’t make them equal. If OPM can sense life energy then they should in theory be able to sense Ki. But with this video I don’t see anything suggesting they can sense life energy. Just Ki which can’t be defaulted to DB’s.

I don't think I've seen a DB vs OPM thread before so I don't know what you mean by this not being valid. I never claimed that DB and OPM Ki are the same. The simple fact that flared strength is manifested as an aura that Tatsumaki and other OPM characters can sense means that she'd be aware of Broly's power.

She isn’t given preparation time but prior knowledge. “Precaution” here implies she needed time to plan it out and that it isn’t instant. Again, I’ve got no knowledge on OPM so I’d need to know. In one scan it shows her using it and in the other it’s implying she had to set it up

What? There's no set up. Tatsumaki was fighting Psykos, who previously used hax to reverse her barrier to deal damage. After seeing that, Tatsumaki came up with double layered barriers, which is what she started to spam from that point onwards.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Tatsu FRA

 

[Raiden38]

Let's remember that Tatsumaki can easily just look at the opponent to activate his psychokinesis, he doesn't need any movement

 

[Nonynho]

Aint no way ass LS is that ass bro

yeah, ass LS is that ass lmfao

 

[MannyQ361]

Broly could try propelling himself with ki blasts if he's being blasted toward space. If restrained, maybe releasing energy from his body or glaring are something he could go for.

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

I don't think I've seen a DB vs OPM thread before so I don't know what you mean by this not being valid. I never claimed that DB and OPM Ki are the same. The simple fact that flared strength is manifested as an aura that Tatsumaki and other OPM characters can sense means that she'd be aware of Broly's power.

After some thinking fair enough I guess. But it doesn’t really change much since she’s being chased by a bull. My opinion still remains unchanged. If she’s within his vicinity Broly kills her ease. I also don’t buy the TK dispelling 2-C Ki arguments and even if it was shrunk which takes time in the GIF you sent, even a minuscule amount of Ki that lands cleanly would kill her granted the unquantifiable difference in strength. It’s not even as if the TK is passive either, it’s something she needs to keep doing and Broly can do it all day long AFAIK, he has great stamina and since his Ki exertion isn’t actually being negated, he can keep flaring his aura as much as he needs to.

What? There's no set up. Tatsumaki was fighting Psykos, who previously used hax to reverse her barrier to deal damage. After seeing that, Tatsumaki came up with double layered barriers, which is what she started to spam from that point onwards.

In one of the scans you sent it seemed as if it was something had actually required some preparation but I guess not. Like before, doesn’t change anything. Layered barrier isn’t stopping 2-C energy from reaching her. It’s even worse since if Broly’s paralysis inducing aura or just his ideal aura reaches her barrier he’s screwed. That’s kind of the whole point of the reverse God Bind. Its tendrils reach you, encompass you and then induce paralysis. Inducing paralysis on the barrier wouldn’t do much but what would do much is using the very same aura to detonate an explosion. I’m guessing the barrier relies on Psychokinesis energy and while it is theoretical I don’t really see this being entirely different from Broly’s RE’ing feat. Ki would just override her Psychokinetic energy and she’d be vulnerable.

 

[BoastJr]

Lemme know if I missed any votes or not.

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

Lemme know if I missed any votes or not.

I don't know if it changes much but so far it should be me, @TiltedFN and @Eden_Warlock99 afaik

 

[AmonInChains]

LS meta solos that fodder

 

[Qawsedf234]

Class Z LS vs 2C AP...

Lets settle LS Versus AP once and for all

Broly is Bloodlusted

A single AoE shockwave from Broly kills Tornado. The only things she's capable of doing is moving Broly and maybe choking him, which is a far slower win con then him just firing an AoE blast that is infinity times stronger than her durability.

 

[AthelChan]

 

[TegamiBachi25]

yeah, ass LS is that ass lmfao

Dragon Ball LS is so ass that Viltrumites can literally tear them bro

 

[Qawsedf234]

Dragon Ball LS is so ass that Viltrumites can literally tear them bro

Viltrumites cannot damage most Dragon Ball characters

Lifting Strength is the amount of physical force a character can output, but it is not always proportional to Striking Strength or Attack Potency. Sometimes a character has lifting feats vastly disproportionate to their general physical output, such as a character having extremely impressive Attack Potency feats but no Lifting Strength showings beyond Peak Human levels. In a VS Match Attack Potency is still required to overcome the opponent's Durability. Even if a character seriously outmatches their opponent in Lifting Strength, if their Attack Potency is too low for them to affect the other's Durability in such a fashion they will be unable to crush or sever body parts, break bones or dislocate joints. They will still be capable of restraining, grappling and potentially choking the other character, though such strategies may prove unfeasible with a massive statistical disparity.

The most Thragg could do against Broly is put him in a headlock and then die instantly when Broly pokes him as an example.

 

[Killerdrone123]

Anyway i realise i didn't vote so broly for reasons i mentioned

 

[BoastJr]

I don't know if it changes much but so far it should be me, @TiltedFN and @Eden_Warlock99 afaik

Added. Sorry I was asleep.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Broly FRA

 

[AthelChan]

Broly via Qaws reasoning