Re:Creators CRT #3: Scaling and Tiering

[RM97]

So now we come to the final phase of the CRT for this verse, which will deal with the scaling, tiering, haxes, profile updates, etc. This particular thread will focus on the scaling and tiering of the characters as per the cosmology, while the next and final one will focus on haxes and profile updates. For reference, here are all my previous threads (which have been accepted) for the Verse's CRT:

1. Minor stats revision for the characters (7-C and Relativistic+)
2. CRT for abilities for the other characters
3. Storyworlds CRT (2-A)
4. Real World CRT (At least Low 1-C, Possibly Higher)
5. Infinite Abyss/Imaginative Force (Likely 1-A)

So now the question is, who scales to the what part of the cosmology? The answer is disappointing, as most of the characters do not scale to the cosmology at all. However, some characters will, either via range, hax, or ap, so let's find out.

Magane

Spoiler: Explanation

For Magane, her hax "Infinite Deception of Words" will be 5D as she was able to warp the cause and effect of the real world for her misdeeds and even changed the laws permanently so that Hangaku's attacks wouldn't affect her. Additionally, her range will be Low 1-C as she is able to summon the Hounds of Tindalos from the Storyworlds to the Real World.

Meteora

Spoiler: Explanation

Meteora doesn't have a profile here, but I will create one for her soon. She will have 3 different keys. First one is base, which scales to other creators like Alicetaria and Blitz, which will be High 8-C.

Second key will be Post-Revision where her powers were revised by the creators to make her magic stronger and as such, not only could she interfere with the laws of the Real World as well as the Storyworlds, but could also manifest/control the Birdcage, a Narrative Cage existing between Real World and Storyworlds, which not only initially fooled Altair into thinking its the Real World, but it was also capable of trapping Altair. So in this key she'll be Low 1-C via her haxes and also range.

The last key will be Human Meteora, who will have all her stats lowered to the average human level, as well as all her previous abilities removed, since the Restorative Power of the Real World nullified her abilities completely and turned her into a human. However, she'll gain the basic applications of the Imaginative Force as a naturalized human of the Real World (albeit through collective approval). So this key will have Human Level Physicals but 1-A hax via Imaginative Force.

Altair/Sirius

Spoiler: Explanation

And finally, we come to the main part of this thread, i.e., the scaling for Altair. There will be 2 Keys for Altair. The first being Pre-God Altair. This is the version of Altair that we see for the majority of the series, and this composites both Base Altair and Altair 2.0/Sirius Reborn because Altair was constantly growing in power and thus, there is no specific "Base" version. In this key, she will be 7-C Physically, at least Low 1-C via Holopsicon. The 7-C already exists in her current profile, but you may ask, why Low 1-C via Holopsicon? Well, here are the reasons:

• Holopsicon was stated in the series to be Omnipotent as well as being an Infinite Power, and having the power over all of creation.
• The Holopsicon is powerful enough to even create worlds, and this was before Altair got amped to God status.
• Altair, likely using this Holopsicon, was also able to break through the dimensional barrier separating the Story Worlds from the Real World and made the storyworlds collide with reality.
• Additionally, her powers were constantly increasing, due to which it was theorized by Meteora that Altair could break free from the Birdcage if she were to use her Holopsicon at fullpower and if she were to make a move, then all the worlds would collide and be destroyed.
• This is proven when Altair became Sirius Reborn/Altair 2.0, she stated that she would use her Holopsicon to make all the Storyworlds collide with the Real World, causing everything to return to oblivion.
• I have an entire sub-section in my blog dedicated to explaining Holopscion's power, but you get the gist of it.
• As such, Holopsicon will be At least Low 1-C for being able to affect both the Storyworlds and the Real World, while Altair will also get a Low 1-C range for traveling between both worlds and summoning/BFR'ing beings from these two worlds.

The 2nd key will be God Altair. In this key, her tier is Likely 1-A, and the reasons are as follows:

• From the previous thread, we are able know that the true nature of all worlds is that they are all stories. This is because Altair, who understands everything and is infallible, refers to the Real World as a Story multiple times in the series, and even the Narrator of the series calls the Real World's events a "Story the Surpassed All Stories" even though the Real World has shown to have an R>F difference with the storyworlds and the series makes a distinction between Reality (Real World) and Fiction (Storyworlds) consistently. All of this is created and controlled as stories by the Imaginative Force within the Infinite Abyss, which exists qualitatively deeper and transcends the worlds, thereby establishing a difference in quality and perceiving all worlds equally as mere stories, irrespective of their size, structure, hierarchy, etc. Further supported by Altair's statements when describing Holopsicon's power as the power of reincarnation of the true reality (which is a flowery language used to mean her Holopsicon mimics the Imaginative Force), reinforcing the idea that Altair is aware of a True Reality, and it is not the Real World/Land of Gods (since she described the Real World as an Alternate Universe to the Storyworlds instead).
• At the End of the Series, when Altair was greatly amplified by the audience using the Imaginative Force, she became a God. Afterwards, we see that Altair also made Setsuna a God on the same level as her. Now, there is a thing about being "God" in the verse. As per Meteora, humans in the real world are not the "God" that everyone imagines. Humans in the real world can create other worlds, but they have limitations, and unlike an Actual God, they are neither immortal nor absolute. As such, a God is someone who does not have any limitations, is immortal, and is absolute. Altair and Setsuna, as absolute "Gods", are now able to create their own stories and worlds, and unlike the humans in the real world who require the collective approval of many people for something to manifest, Altair did not require any such thing when creating, erasing, and again recreating the world for Setsuna. This illustrates that Altair (and by extension Setsuna) is actually a legitimate God, with absolute power.
• From their conversation at the end of the series, we find that when Altair and Setsuna became Gods, they created an Alternate Timeline to the Real World, which they called a "Story", and even said they would create/control Infinite Stories/Worlds. Notice that she uses the words "World" and "Universe" synonymously with "Story" even if the World is on the same level as that of the Real World, which means that from Altair's perspective, all worlds are now the same, i.e., stories that can be created and controlled as such. Therefore, this implies that the Imaginative Force not only empowered both Altair and Setsuna to God levels, but also brought them to its own comparable existential level in the Abyss, from where all the Worlds are equally perceived as stories from EoS Altair's perspective.
• Importantly, Altair is not merely empowered by the Imaginative Force in the sense of channeling a higher power. Rather, her ascension is explicitly portrayed as a qualitative elevation of her existence, where she gains the same mode of being as the Infinite Abyss itself. This is evidenced by the fact that, after her ascension, she perceives, creates, and controls all worlds—including those previously designated as “Reality”—as stories in the same manner as the Imaginative Force, indicating ontological parity rather than external empowerment. Before Godhood, Altair distinguished between the Storyworlds and the Real World, but after her ascension, this distinction ceases entirely, and she uniformly refers to all such structures as “stories,” even when they exist on the same level as the former Real World. This permanent shift in perspective demonstrates that her existential position has changed entirely.
• There is also the fact that Imaginative Force/Infinite Abyss also set up the fates and destiny of everyone and all the chain of events that occurred in the series, as also explained in the novel. So in a sense, everything that happened in the series was already authored by it, and it willed everything into happening. So even the whole "non 1-A is using 1-A power to boost another non 1-A to 1-A levels" happened because the Imaginative Force fated it to happen.
• Now I know people will say that we see Altair and Setsuna physically existing in the Universe they created, and thus, it is a disqualifier for 1-A. Well, the answer to that is pretty simple, because that is not the actual form of Altair (or Setsuna, for that matter). In the entire series, the Altair we see exists as some form of Physical Image, which she used to interact with the Worlds, which is specifically why physical attacks and magic do not work on her, and her concept needs to be attacked to even hurt her. Now, her real/true self is an entire Story that is Infinite (and infallible), Eternal, and Unchanging/Immutable, and we know that when a Story is created, it exists independently outside the Real World without any Causal Relationship. Setsuna also exists similarly, and I have explained this here. Yet after their Ascension to Godhood, Setsuna's mere presence would warp and destroy the Alternate Timeline Altair created parallel to the Real World. This shows that even their physical avatars can passively affect Low 1-C structures. Moreover, at the end of the series, it is implied that their physical forms merged with the white void of Oblivion, showing that the physical bodies we saw of both Altair and Setsuna are not at all their real/true selves. Additionally, upon ascending to Godhood, erased the Birdcage that was becoming unstable and safely returned the characters to the real world, even though we never visually see her doing that in the anime.

TL;DR

• Magane:
  • 5D/Low 1-C Hax and Range (Magane's ability could warp the cause and effect of the Real World and even permanently bend its laws. Magane can also summon beings from the Storyworlds to the Real World)
• Meteora:
  • High 8-C in first key (Comparable to other creations like Blitz Talker, Alicetaria February, etc)
  • Low 1-C Hax and Range in the second key (Post-Revisions, her magic became powerful enough to interfere with the laws of the Real World as well as the Storyworlds, and could also manifest/control the Birdcage to trap Altair in)
  • 10-B Physically, 1-A Hax via Imaginative Force (EoS she became nullified and naturalized as a normal human being of the Real World and therefore possesses the Power of Creation as the other humans, but still it requires collective approval to manifest something)
• Altair:
  • 7-C Physically, at least Low 1-C via Holopsicon in Pre-God key (Altair is physically stronger than all the other creations, as she can physically overpower Vogelchevalier, who can cut down Gigasmachina. Easily executed Mamika Kirameki with her swords, even though Mamika could tank her own Magical Splash Flare attack while impaled and weakened. The Holopsicon is portrayed as an omnipotent, infinite power over all creation, capable of creating worlds and breaking the barrier between the created worlds and the real world to connect them together. When Altair gained more power as Sirius Reborn, she was going to use Holopsicon to collide all worlds, threatening total annihilation and a return to Oblivion)
  • 1-A in God key (After ascending into Godhood through the Imaginative Force, Altair became an immortal, absolute, and limitless God capable of freely creating, erasing, and controlling infinite worlds and stories without constraints, even elevating others to Godhood as she did with Setsuna. She was elevated to an existential state comparable to that of the Infinite Abyss, the true reality existing qualitatively deeper beyond all worlds, from which all realities are perceived, created, and controlled equally as mere stories in their true nature, regardless of hierarchy, scale, or whether they are regarded as Reality or Fiction)

Agree: 22 (@Celestial_Pegasus, @DarkDragonMedeus, @SomebodyData, @Dereck03, @Reiner04 , @BoastJr, @Hecky2222, @Nissa_Ushiromiya , @DeMarigny'sClock , @Rakih_Elyan , @Vesxpura, @Cipher72 , @Zanesucksatlife, @Maniaunavailable, @AlipheeseXIV, @Iiliminal, @ZillionZeutron, @NothingToDebateWith , @Child_of_destiny , @shinnKazals, @Apex_Predator_GX, @Enter_Bluey)
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[BoastJr]

I agree, infact I was waiting for this

I love Plothax woman

 

[RM97]

I love Plothax woman

Incredibly based statement

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Looks good.

Another character i made somehow reaching 1-A

 

[Hecky2222]

I agree, infact I was waiting for this

I love Plothax woman

Cheap copy of Vergil bro

Anyway not knowledgeable about verse, but seems good by reading CRT , I agree

 

[BoastJr]

Can't wait to use this in Versus matches

Epilogue gg

 

[Cipher72]

Firstly I wanna say that this is a rlly good thread so good job and I agree with everything except this

The 2nd key will be God Altair. In this key, her tier is Likely 1-A, and the reasons are as follows:

In your previous thread you said and I am quoting;

That would be the Oblivion.
The transcendence of the Real World over the Story Worlds still rely on stacking of data. However, Oblivion is devoid of this data as the emptiness. Yet all of these are transcended by the Abyss.

An analogy would be the Worlds being Stories irrespective of hierarchy, the Oblivion being the Blank Canvas/Background on which the stories are written, and the Imaginative Force as the Author who writes these stories.

Alright, sounds good then. Who scales to Oblivion inverse?

Don't think anyone does lol.

I have to ask what made you change your mind unless you are planning on upgrading Abyss deeper into 1-A?

Importantly, Altair is not merely empowered by the Imaginative Force in the sense of channeling a higher power. Rather, her ascension is explicitly portrayed as a qualitative elevation of her existence, where she gains the same mode of being as the Infinite Abyss itself.

Notice that she uses the words "World" and "Universe" synonymously with "Story" even if the World is on the same level as that of the Real World, which means that from Altair's perspective, all worlds are now the same, i.e., stories that can be created and controlled as such. Therefore, this implies that the Imaginative Force not only empowered both Altair and Setsuna to God levels, but also brought them to its own comparable existential level in the Abyss, from where all the Worlds are equally perceived as stories from EoS Altair's perspective.

I have to say I find the whole idea of being empowered by non 1-A's using a 1-A power to ascend to 1-A is interesting. I would say L1-A makes more sense.

 

[Nissa_Ushiromiya]

I already agreed with Tier 1-A, having already made my own considerations. So i simply agree with Tier 1-A.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good.

 

[RM97]

I have to ask what made you change your mind ?

Well if you look at the thread OP, I made it pretty clear about what Oblivion is. It is just the blank canvas devoid data and all, on which these worlds exists as stories without any difference. It can be the Real World, it's alternate timeline, the 4D world of hounds of tindalos, the 2-D world of pixels, etc. All simply are stories in the oblivion.

I have to say I find the whole idea of being empowered by non 1-A's using a 1-A power to ascend to 1-A is interesting. I would say L1-A makes more sense.

Non 1-As are not "using" the power like you think. The power responds to the collective will or wishes of the people. So in essence it is simply just a 1-A making a non-1-A ascend to its level because people are wishing for this to happen.

 

[BoastJr]

A Higher Entity doing stuff based on the wishes of the majority sounds similar to some Nasu Verse stuff

 

[RM97]

A Higher Entity doing stuff based on the wishes of the majority sounds similar to some Nasu Verse stuff

I mean, the author, Rei Hiroe, has collaborated and worked with Nasu, so.....

 

[DeMarigny'sClock]

Looks great, agreed

 

[Nissa_Ushiromiya]

I mean, the author, Rei Hiroe, has collaborated and worked with Nasu, so.....

There are all the conditions to connect Altair to the root then...

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Just scaling then, agree.

 

[Cipher72]

Well if you look at the thread OP, I made it pretty clear about what Oblivion is. It is just the blank canvas devoid data and all, on which these worlds exists as stories without any difference. It can be the Real World, it's alternate timeline, the 4D world of hounds of tindalos, the 2-D world of pixels, etc. All simply are stories in the oblivion.

I understand that which is why I find it to be very intriguing that a character can ascend beyond that canvas.

Non 1-As are not "using" the power like you think. The power responds to the collective will or wishes of the people. So in essence it is simply just a 1-A making a non-1-A ascend to its level because people are wishing for this to happen.

That's just phrasing it differently,
The 1-A power amps said non 1-A because of the non 1-A people wishing for the non 1-A to be amped which is still a case of non 1-A's amping another non 1-A with a 1-A's power that's why I think that L1-A seems more fitting that's all.

 

[RM97]

That's just phrasing it differently,
The 1-A power amps said non 1-A because of the non 1-A people wishing for the non 1-A to be amped which is still a case of non 1-A's amping another non 1-A with a 1-A's power that's why I think that L1-A seems more fitting that's all.

Its not exactly a disqualifier or weird tbf. The involvement of non 1-A's does not change the result since a 1-A can make a non 1-A into another 1-A.

As a precedent, there are verses like SMT/Persona that do the whole Non 1-A using 1-A to do stuff with 1-A or boosting Non 1-A powers to 1-A, afaik. But I digress.

 

[Vesxpura]

Fully Agree

 

[SomebodyData]

Agreed with the general scaling revisions proposed in the OP

Regarding the tier 1-A and non-tier 1-A shenanigans, I wasn’t there when Tier 1-A was significantly revised, but I will note that it almost feels like there are more exceptions to the 1-A requirements than actual adherents. But that would probably be a thread for another day.

 

[Vesxpura]

That's just phrasing it differently,
The 1-A power amps said non 1-A because of the non 1-A people wishing for the non 1-A to be amped which is still a case of non 1-A's amping another non 1-A with a 1-A's power that's why I think that L1-A seems more fitting that's all.

Not really, the non 1As have absolutely no power inherently. Imagination independently and passively actualizes their wishes, Otherwise thats like me asking someone to lift a large block, and according to you, rather than whoever lifted the block getting that feat, i got it instead. Outsourcing is completely fine in cases of tier 1

 

[Cipher72]

Its not exactly a disqualifier or weird tbf. The involvement of non 1-A's does not change the result since a 1-A can make a non 1-A into another 1-A.

As a precedent, there are verses like SMT/Persona that do the whole Non 1-A using 1-A to do stuff with 1-A or boosting Non 1-A powers to 1-A, afaik. But I digress.

I am not saying that it's a disqualifier, I am saying that it's weird that you can do that.

Not really, the non 1As have absolutely no power inherently. Imagination independently and passively actualizes their wishes

I never said that the non 1-A should get the feat though ? I feel like you aren't understanding what I am saying. I am saying that the inverse mechanism of a group of non 1-A being able to let's say call upon a 1-A to amp a non 1-A into a 1-A is weird considering said 1-A is unable to do anything by itself and can only do something when the group of non 1-A decides upon doing something.

Otherwise thats like me asking someone to lift a large block, and according to you, rather than whoever lifted the block getting that feat, i got it instead.

Not really, it's more accurate to say that a bunch of fictional characters told the author to make another fictional character non fictional (in comparison to them) and the author did that. Or better it's like if a group of humans were passively in control of a God's power and could utilise said power to fulfill their wishes unconsciously and the God can't do anything by itself. I just find the whole thing weird (not be confused with me arguing that it doesn't work) especially when non 1-A are transcending Oblivion i.e the Blank Canvas itself upon which all stories are written.

Outsourcing is completely fine in cases of tier 1

Never said it wasn't

 

[Vesxpura]

I am saying that it's weird that you can do that.

i literally just explained how its not weird

 

[RM97]

1-A is unable to do anything by itself and can only do something when the group of non 1-A decides upon doing something

Not true. It was responsible for creating the Real World when nothing existed.

 

[Cipher72]

i literally just explained how its not weird

Do I have to explain why your analogy doesn't work ? I feel like I already did that.

Not true. It was responsible for creating the Real World when nothing existed.

True but afaik that's the only thing it did by it's own will which is why I said that's it's weird that a 1-A passively acts upon the collective desires of non 1-A again I am not saying that it doesn't work or isn't applicable or is a disqualifier just that it's kinda weird.

 

[RM97]

True but afaik that's the only thing it did by it's own will which is why I said that's it's weird that a 1-A passively acts upon the collective desires of non 1-A again I am not saying that it doesn't work or isn't applicable or is a disqualifier just that it's kinda weird.

Its not the only thing it did. It also set up the fates and destiny of everyone and all the chain of events that occurred in the series.
So in a sense, everything that happened in the series was already authored by it, and it willed everything into happening. So even the whole "non 1-A is using 1-A power to boost another non 1-A to 1-A levels" happened because the Imaginative Force fated it to happen.

 

[Cipher72]

Its not the only thing it did. It also set up the fates and destiny of everyone and all the chain of events that occurred in the series.
So in a sense, everything that happened in the series was already authored by it, and it willed everything into happening. So even the whole "non 1-A is using 1-A power to boost another non 1-A to 1-A levels" happened because the Imaginative Force fated it to happen.

I don't remember the last scan ? Where's it from ? Most of these are just normal stuff without actual backing, but if this is true then it makes sense so I am fine with it.

 

[RM97]

I don't remember the last scan ? Where's it from ? Most of these are just normal stuff without actual backing, but if this is true then it makes sense so I am fine with it.

It is from Episode 16, right when Meteora gives a motivational speech to the team in the bathhouse. Even the novel says the same thing.

 

[Dereck03]

The Queen is back. Agree​

 

[Vesxpura]

Do I have to explain why your analogy doesn't work ? I feel like I already did that.

You literally just reiterated the same idea but with different terminology.

non 1-A are transcending Oblivion i.e the Blank Canvas itself upon which all stories are written.

Thats not possible

 

[Vesxpura]

The Queen is back. Agree​

literally my wallpaper

 

[Cipher72]

It is from Episode 16, right when Meteora gives a motivational speech to the team in the bathhouse. Even the novel says the same thing.

Then I am fine with it.

Thats not possible

Wdym

 

[BoastJr]

The Queen is back. Agree​

Plot Hax Woman vs Plot Hax Woman when

 

[Dereck03]

Plot Hax Woman vs Plot Hax Woman when

Altair is immune to plot hax

 

[Cipher72]

It is from Episode 16, right when Meteora gives a motivational speech to the team in the bathhouse. Even the novel says the same thing.

On a side note you should add this to the OP or somewhere because this is a good point imo.

 

[Cipher72]

Altair is immune to plot hax

Time to bring back H1-A

 

[BoastJr]

Altair will struggle against LOTM

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Agree (were finally getting plot queen back)

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Huh, wasn't the previous crt like 1 year in length lmao. At least thus one is getting the attention

 

[Dereck03]

Huh, wasn't the previous crt like 1 year in length lmao.

I had to step in.

Beating all the non-wankers is my duty.

 

[Vesxpura]

This thread is literally js slandering other characters cuz it was accepted (im all for it)