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Wuthering Waves Jiyan Feat

AlipheeseXIV said:
Ok, then I am asking specifically how do you propose we do that? Because that is not clear in the slightest, what formation of cloud? Exactly where in the video time stamp? Should it be calced via dispersal, destruction, or disintegration? You haven't offered any of this information, yet you're critiquing the existing calc for these exact points.
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Idrc if you're so single mindedly focused on this downgrade to the point of not replying to counter arguments, but you at least have to actually reply to this so we can actually make a calc for said downgrade if it does get accepted.
 
AlipheeseXIV said:
Idrc if you're so single mindedly focused on this downgrade to the point of not replying to counter arguments, but you at least have to actually reply to this so we can actually make a calc for said downgrade if it does get accepted.
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I already suggested alternatives and said the feat isn't Jiyan's doing at all. And I've responded to you guys enough to know where you stand on the matter, there's nothing to respond to more because I don't think the discussion will be productive and would rather wait for mods to come and only have to read 1 page.
Arkenis said:
Alternatives:

The only alternative I can see is someone calcing the formation of the cloud and scaling everyone off that.
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Arkenis said:
My proposal is to drop the idea he did anything to the clouds and find another feat to scale them off like calc the fields creation of the clouds or calc the ke of the clouds being made and if people can scale to fields then make that the calc they scale to.
Click to expand...
Basically, like the other user brought up, in 0:30 we see the clouds move, whatever timeframe is decent can be used to find their speed of expansion and get ke or the entire cloud's formation can also be calced through the CAPE method.
 
Arkenis said:
I already suggested alternatives and said the feat isn't Jiyan's doing at all. And I've responded to you guys enough to know where you stand on the matter, there's nothing to respond to more because I don't think the discussion will be productive and would rather wait for mods to come and only have to read 1 page.


Basically, like the other user brought up, in 0:30 we see the clouds move, whatever timeframe is decent can be used to find their speed of expansion and get ke or the entire cloud's formation can also be calced through the CAPE method.
Click to expand...
Alright, well at least this is smth.
 
I've been asked to evaluate between the two calculations. Currently, I am leaning more towards the high-end of the new method.

This is heavily dependent on context. If we see Jiyan physically parting the clouds, the original calculation can stay but if the clouds disappear instead, Arkenis' would be more correct
 
Naito-desu said:
I've been asked to evaluate between the two calculations. Currently, I am leaning more towards the high-end of the new method.

This is heavily dependent on context. If we see Jiyan physically parting the clouds, the original calculation can stay but if the clouds disappear instead, Arkenis' would be more correct
Click to expand...
It is very clear Jiyan's not effecting the clouds via some shockwave or through his own energy. I'd also like to know your opinion on the KE aspect of the feat and how it isn't demonstrative of tier 6 destruction.
Arkenis said:
2. The KE gotten from this calc does not show destruction comparable to the tier and thus should fall under the same scrutiny other KE feats have. For clarification if this is not understood: Jiyan's calc asserts he pushed the clouds, if you watch the video Jiyan does not attack the clouds, he attacks the discord on the ground and releases a shockwave from it. This shockwave, if it truly was capable of causing clouds hundreds of km wide to be pushed at mhs speeds, we'd see more than just wind being blown away, but we do not.
Click to expand...
 
Naito-desu said:
I've been asked to evaluate between the two calculations. Currently, I am leaning more towards the high-end of the new method.

This is heavily dependent on context. If we see Jiyan physically parting the clouds, the original calculation can stay but if the clouds disappear instead, Arkenis' would be more correct
Click to expand...
What kind of further context would you like? Because it is just evidently clear and irrefutable that he pushes away the clouds and destroys the tacet field as a result of his attack which creates a very blatant shockwave, Arkenis is arguing that it this isn't the case but is something more like disintegration or something which I'm not sure abt. He also argued that the completely fodder and random enemy (called a Tacet Discord or TD) was the cause of the Tacet Field but this completely goes against the lore as it is literally physically impossible for such a fodder enemy to make a Tacet Field. If you need some kinda different lore context or whatever, let me know.
 
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From what I see, the video does show the clouds being pushed away, and there are already clouds above, so these could easily be low-lying clouds. So, these are my remarks so far for both sides of the argument:

For the last segment of the video, I do agree with Arkenis' assessment that these tacet fields disappearing don't really match being physically pushed apart that is being posited. It does seem like, on the other hand, that them simply dissipating is a strong argument, taking this into account.

However, Jiyan's attack did seem to legitimately push open the clouds in the video itself, but I wouldn't personally equate the last part of the video with this, since the original calculation seems to associate the speed of their dissipation with the speed of the clouds being pushed apart. I would need proof from Arkenis that the enemy is sustaining these clouds themselves before I accept that it invalidates the idea that it physically happened.

I'm still on the fence because it feels like what's happening after Jiyan's attack and what happens in the planet shot are so different that it'd be hard to compare them together.

Arkenis' method fits the latter while Jamesthetaker's method fits the former
 
Naito-desu said:
However, Jiyan's attack did seem to legitimately push open the clouds in the video itself, but I wouldn't personally equate the last part of the video with this, since the original calculation seems to associate the speed of their dissipation with the speed of the clouds being pushed apart. I would need proof from Arkenis that the enemy is sustaining these clouds themselves before I accept that it invalidates the idea that it physically happened.

I'm still on the fence because it feels like what's happening after Jiyan's attack and what happens in the planet shot are so different that it'd be hard to compare them together.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, I mean it is an impliciation based off the info in that trailer tbf. I've said this before, but it'd just be pretty weird for those fields to have gone away for no reason even though that only happens after his attack which implies it is due to him. However yeah this is a fair point.
Naito-desu said:
Arkenis' method fits the latter while Jamesthetaker's method fits the former
Click to expand...
Well let me know which method you plan to use after Arkenis makes their reply, I don't think they are going to be capable of finding proof that the Tacet Discord shown in that video is the cause for the field (I myself as the sole knowledgeable member of the verse at the moment would be hard pressed to find you such information)
 
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Naito-desu said:
However, Jiyan's attack did seem to legitimately push open the clouds in the video itself, but I wouldn't personally equate the last part of the video with this, since the original calculation seems to associate the speed of their dissipation with the speed of the clouds being pushed apart. I would need proof from Arkenis that the enemy is sustaining these clouds themselves before I accept that it invalidates the idea that it physically happened.

I'm still on the fence because it feels like what's happening after Jiyan's attack and what happens in the planet shot are so different that it'd be hard to compare them together.

Arkenis' method fits the latter while Jamesthetaker's method fits the former
Click to expand...
I don't think there's proof for it as of now, but this seems like a pretty irrelevant point. I only offered it up as an alternative since the feats vague in general. The feat's still inconsistent with it's destruction and alongside the dissipation, should be evidence KE is not an appropriate method.
 
My opinion is that there should be a recalculation regardless, because the original method is measuring two separate things that occurred in succession as the same thing happening.

CAPE method is valid for the latter part of the video, but I highly recommend Jiyan High 6-C calc would have to be redone according to what was visible from the ground, and not assumed from what was seen at the end of the video. So in short, still leaning toward Arkenis' method unless there's an effort to recalculate Jiyan's method according to the parameters described.
 
Naito-desu said:
My opinion is that there should be a recalculation regardless, because the original method is measuring two separate things that occurred in succession as the same thing happening.

CAPE method is valid for the latter part of the video, but I highly recommend Jiyan High 6-C calc would have to be redone according to what was visible from the ground, and not assumed from what was seen at the end of the video. So in short, still leaning toward Arkenis' method unless there's an effort to recalculate Jiyan's method according to the parameters described.
Click to expand...
What method would have to be used for the H6C calc to be viable?
 
I think he means the initial cloud moving seen from ground is to be measured not the space view?
 
If you want a more concrete conclusion, Arkenis' is the one I'm more partial towards over the High 6-C one (until my recommendations are implemented)
 
This and only this part, nothing from space.
yt6Ryhs.jpeg
 
If Naito's fine with that, I'm fine with it. Follows the rule for lowest end for cloud calcs, debatably Jiyan's powers and is directly the cloud he'd be affecting.
 
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