Wuthering Waves: What is the multiverse level+!???

[SweetDao]

Could you show us the CN version of the Sonoro Sphere description? That’s Jue’s biggest feat so far; the rest are mostly just supporting evidence.

I'll go check it, I hope I can find it...

 

[SweetDao]

I found it.

Raw : 时序之寰岁主「角」的声之领域。此地晨昏相浊,四时无序,蕴聚着一切时序的元始与终形。

MTL :
“The Chronal Realm"
The Domain of Sound of the Year-Lord ‘Horn.’
Here, dawn and dusk intermingle, the four seasons are without order, and it gathers the original beginning and ultimate form of all time sequence.”

edit : here's the text in case maybe the text extractor got confused.

Edit 2 : It seems to match the description on the EN website ig?

 

[IStar0thh]

I found it.

edit : here's the text in case maybe the text extractor got confused.

The CN and EN versions are quite similar this time. I also checked other translations, and this is the result:

In this place, dawn and dusk are intermingled, the four seasons are without order, and it gathers within it the primordial origin and the final form of all temporal sequences.

I’m not fluent in Chinese, but the wording seems legitimate to me. Given this, my stance on the Sonoro Sphere being 2-B remains unchanged.

 

[SweetDao]

The CN and EN versions are quite similar this time. I also checked other translations, and this is the result:
“In this place, dawn and dusk are intermingled, the four seasons are without order,
and it gathers within it the primordial origin and the final form of all temporal sequences.”
I’m not fluent in Chinese, but the wording seems legitimate to me. Given this, my stance on the Sonoro Sphere being 2-B remains unchanged.

Yeah, it seems to go the trajectories of "it contain the beginning and end of everything", with the CN being a bit less ambiguous since it says "all time sequences".

I think the only real issue was with the infinite thing really

 

[Furina003]

Uhhh... well ill just quote these 2 justifications and then ask what the hell is the reasoning for 2-A.
First one is Jue

The first part is okay, low 2-C changing entire universe with time hax is literally blatant enough but the second part literally mentions "envisioning" which means this: imagine as a future possibility; visualize, nothing is 2-A here, literally imagining something isnt quantifiable feat unless its done via Subjective reality. and the profile explicitly list this part of justification as:

l2c is better, as far as I remember, because infinite possibilities do not always refer to tier 2, it should be explained that all possibilities are real simultaneously

Second one comes from Shorekeeper profile:


Much better justification at a glance, but none of the scans elaborates if the timelines outcomes and possibilites here are actual universe, or the planet of Solaris 3. it basically just drops vague means of "timelines" without further information.
I did read this crt where i guess the tier 2-A was proposed, and this is the only part that mentions universe being affected when possibilites are in question, and the effect is just swirling starry sky
I will point out that im not against tier 2 in general, since what Jue does by changing the entire universe with temporal mandate is bread and butter tier 2. but other than this i dont see anything warrating tier 2-A outside cosmology in general which is fine.
If theres any other genuine proof their power reaches across entire cosmology you can keep the rating but justifications itself HAVE to be better than this.

I suggest to delete this 2A, because the Tethys system is not a real world, the infinite possibilities in it are only possibilities and not real, where each of these possibilities can disappear and born, which explains that it is not present simultaneously which directly refutes 2A itself and this possibility is just data
, there is no further explanation if the Tethys system is a multiverse with a 2A scale

 

[Bsk_lyree]

that the possibilities, well they remain as possibilities, it's not actualized

If you mean Tethys then I disagree with this, because the possibility of Tethys is realized by its existence as a new universe with past, present, and future structures.

 

[Bsk_lyree]

because the Tethys system is not a real world

In explanation 2A itself there is no exception for the simulation world.

the infinite possibilities in it are only possibilities and not real

All of these possibilities were realized by Tethys into a world/universe with past, present, and future.

this possibility is just data

As before, the possibility is transformed into a universe that exists ontologically.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I think waiting for OP, Eldemade and Alipheese inputs is the good call, but at least changing 2-A into 2-B shouldn't be controversial, rest we can wait and see

I don't mind 2-B but I think it's better to wait for @AlipheeseXIV response since he is the one who upgraded it. If he has any other contention with it.

 

[Furina003]

In explanation 2A itself there is no exception for the simulation world.

No, the worlds have to be real and each one is l2c in size, then can get 2A

All of these possibilities were realized by Tethys into a world/universe with past, present, and future.
As before, the possibility is transformed into a universe that exists ontologically.

it's just a possibility based on data, every choice will affect the possibilities and other possibilities will disappear, that's why it is said that possibilities can be born and disappear

 

[Bsk_lyree]

No, the worlds have to be real

Uh, after I read it, I haven't found that it has to be real world. If you want, you can send the proof here too.

every choice will affect the possibilities and other possibilities will disappear, that's why it is said that possibilities can be born and disappear

“Born and fading away” describes a shift in focus or actualization, not a statement that other possibilities are ontologically destroyed and "fades" is not a synonym for the word destroyed/erased

And camellya also said:
"The matrix showed me several different iterations of my past. Looks like even the smallest deviations can lead to entirely different outcomes."
Evidence that the MWI applies to the Tethys and Verse Wuthering Waves

 

[SweetDao]

“Born and fading away” describes a shift in focus or actualization, not a statement that other possibilities are ontologically destroyed and "fades" is not a synonym for the word destroyed/erased

And camellya also said:
"The matrix showed me several different iterations of my past. Looks like even the smallest deviations can lead to entirely different outcomes."
Evidence that the MWI applies to the Tethys and Verse Wuthering Waves

I don't think it works like this. Those are merely "possibilities" derived from a set of data. Like for example, we could compile all of your life as code and then, Tethys would create different set of data that could (or could not) change what happened in your life. The data itself has no physicality unless something happens with the Data Space of Tethys and even when that happen, it was never as groundbreaking as bringing up massive objects or something like that.

Similarly, (unless it refers to something else) we know that some Stellar Matrices (where the data/different outcomes are stored) may not have universal size:

Actually, upon digging further and further, I found this. I'm not sure if "pseudo-star" is too ambiguous, but, well, could work ig?

 

[Bsk_lyree]

Those are merely "possibilities" derived from a set of data

Yes, it's not wrong, Tethys does create possibilities from data and creates a new timeline or even a universe like Camellia said earlier and if it's based on data, it's not a problem because this possibility is actualized into something physical that can be felt and interacted with, With the example of a rover interacting with camellia in this possibility/what if world (You can skip to minute 45:47)

we know that some Stellar Matrices (where the data/different outcomes are stored) may not have universal size

Tbh. I don't understand why you brought this up, can you explain?

 

[Furina003]

Uh, after I read it, I haven't found that it has to be real world. If you want, you can send the proof here too.

“Born and fading away” describes a shift in focus or actualization, not a statement that other possibilities are ontologically destroyed and "fades" is not a synonym for the word destroyed/erased

And camellya also said:
"The matrix showed me several different iterations of my past. Looks like even the smallest deviations can lead to entirely different outcomes."
Evidence that the MWI applies to the Tethys and Verse Wuthering Waves

What do you mean?. When we talk about tiers, our benchmark is attack potency. Attack potency is the amount of "physical" energy a character can unleash, while what this system creates is simply a probability based on data. And this probability is only based on data, meaning it's not something real or physical. So how can we say it's a real multiverse? It's just data.

Regardless, the data is only particular data. This data only records data from Solaris, not the entire universe. Furthermore, this probability can disappear, meaning it can't be called a 2A-scale multiverse because at 2A scale, all L2C universes must exist simultaneously. So, there's not a single scan that shows it's a 2A-scale multiverse. I still disagree with this scaling. Although my vote isn't important, that's my opinion. So, let's wait for the staff to evaluate it.

Oh yeah one more, the change can cause some changes, that is normal, and has nothing to do with 2A.

 

[SweetDao]

Yes, it's not wrong, Tethys does create possibilities from data and creates a new timeline or even a universe like Camellia said earlier and if it's based on data, it's not a problem because this possibility is actualized into something physical that can be felt and interacted with, With the example of a rover interacting with camellia in this possibility/what if world (You can skip to minute 45:47)

it's because the stellar matrix got instantiated into reality through a Sonoro Sphere and Camellya/Rover got inside. Otherwise it wouldn't be "real". This is like Tethys created a temporary dungeon to be simple.

Similarly, you can clearly see the limit of said instantation here (look further into the background, you can clearly see the delimitations).

Tbh. I don't understand why you brought this up, can you explain?

If the "timelines/possibilities/whatever" aren't at least universal in size, it just can't be tier 2 unless very specific explanations or attributes.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I’m not gonna be responding to this thread much because I don’t like using mobile for VSB, but the Tethys system’s data can invade reality. So clearly it’s not a “fake” thing, especially when the core area is literally an open world section you can physically explore and is a Sonoro Sphere. I also have no idea where SweetDao got the idea that Sonoro Spheres have fake skies and stars??? I don’t know where this was ever stated or shown outside of some very random or inconspicuous Sonoro. I have all the evidence in the CRT not really looking to repeat myself too much, especially when accessing the scans is a hassle without my PC. So I’ll just leave it here and as I already said, I’m not really gonna argue particularly hard about the tier, but Qaw has alr said that multiverse is fine, whatever the vote comes down to in the end is what it comes down to I dnrc.

 

[Bsk_lyree]

What do you mean?. When we talk about tiers, our benchmark is attack potency. Attack potency is the amount of "physical" energy

In the explanation of VSB itself for 2A it is said:

Characters or objects that can significantly affect, create and/or destroy a countably infinite number of separate space-time continuums

I think it's clear, not everything has to be measured in joules, especially for tier 2 and above.

So how can we say it's a real multiverse? It's just data.

I have explained this earlier that Tethys actualizes the data into a universe, stellar matrix

this probability can disappear, meaning it can't be called a 2A-scale

I've already answered this one, maybe you can read it again.

all L2C universes must exist simultaneously. So, there's not a single scan that shows it's a 2A-scale multiverse.

You misinterpreted 2A itself, 2A is Countable infinite/aleph-0 while what you said is aleph-1 has entered the realm of tier 1 because it leads to simultaneous existence in infinite

Although my vote isn't important, that's my opinion. So, let's wait for the staff to evaluate it.

Your opinion is important for evaluation, everyone is free to discuss here nd yes I respect your opinion and arguments

 

[SweetDao]

I’m not gonna be responding to this thread much because I don’t like using mobile for VSB, but the Tethys system’s data can invade reality. So clearly it’s not a “fake” thing, especially when the core area is literally an open world section you can physically explore and is a Sonoro Sphere. I also have no idea where SweetDao got the idea that Sonoro Spheres have fake skies and stars??? I don’t know where this was ever stated or shown outside of some very random or inconspicuous Sonoro. I have all the evidence in the CRT not really looking to repeat myself too much, especially when accessing the scans is a hassle without my PC. So I’ll just leave it here and as I already said, I’m not really gonna argue particularly hard about the tier, but Qaw has alr said that multiverse is fine, whatever the vote comes down to in the end is what it comes down to I dnrc.

That much is unimportant for now, are you at least fine with 2-A being replaced by 2-B?

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Sure

 

[PedjaTarzan]

bump

 

[Vietthai96]

Yeah no, born and fading away doesn't make possibilities legitimately low 2-c for each. There is also another requirement of space-time need to be universe-sized too

 

[Furina003]

Yeah no, born and fading away doesn't make possibilities legitimately low 2-c for each. There is also another requirement of space-time need to be universe-sized too

So, to be sure, do you agree with removing 2A? or keeping it?

 

[Bsk_lyree]

another requirement of space-time need to be universe-sized too

It has been explained that all possibilities encompass changes as big as the universe, including the past, present, and future.

 

[Vietthai96]

It has been explained that all possibilities encompass changes as big as the universe, including the past, present, and future.

All the possibilities in the universe change within this swirling starry sky

Idk how you can come into such conclusion but nothing in the scan say anything about possibility is independent universe-sized timeline

So, to be sure, do you agree with removing 2A? or keeping it?

If the possibility isn't physically existing possibility then yeah, no 2-A to me

 

[Bsk_lyree]

Idk how you can come into such conclusion but nothing in the scan say anything about possibility is independent universe-sized timeline

It is clearly stated that the Tethys system uses the MWI system.
This
And in the previous text it was said that the changes covered past, present, and future, which are the standard space-time continuum.

 

[SweetDao]

It is clearly stated that the Tethys system uses the MWI system.
This
And in the previous text it was said that the changes covered past, present, and future, which are the standard space-time continuum.

Sure, if you wish, the main issue is that those possibilities (different worlds) aren't instantiated into reality unless they open/generate said stellar matrix. Until they do that, it's just a bunch of codes in the sky acting as a star. Maybe you could scale the fact that the data would be enormous, idk.

Finn: "Let's see... ‘According to the observations, the collision of the Stellar Matrices suggests the conflict and mutual exclusion between the logic of the computational models... The outer rings of the Matrices have overlapped, suggesting a code exchange and duplication between the two models... Each Matrix represents a vast and complete set of computing logic, and their orbital changes symbolize the execution of codes... In other words, the Stellar Matrices are observable high-dimensional codes’... It's neatly written. Are you a new Bloom Bearer?"

Rover: "What are you doing?"

Gliese: “Me? I'm picking a Stellar Matrix for the new recruits' training session, as the basis of projection.”

Rover: “Projection?”

Gliese: “Yes. It's what we do with the Infinite Reality Sandbox here at Black Shores. It projects data from the Stellar Matrix into reality. Using digital samples of the Tacet Discords, the Tethys System can analyze and predict their possible evolutionary models. But some of the models that evolved from errors are just too out-there to show. Can't have anything too hideous or messed up... It's challenging to choose a decent one…”

 

[GDS2]

Correct me if I am wrong here,

There are infinite timelines and each of these timelines are universe in size which is proven where, in one timeline showing our past with Camellya, we have earth/Solaris-3, sun (skip to 46:20), plus Camellya herself said that all universes (Skip to 1:29:30) where she and rover did not met, were all perished. Also, all these timelines where we see Camellya/Lady Flora's past and various what-ifs universes do exist simultaneously as Beatrice herself stated that we need to jump to a correct timeline (skip to 38:51) to find our Camellya and yes, these timelines are not just projection but also very real and can even invade the original universe.

All of these made Tethys 2-A.

The only debate now is whether the word Infinite were used as some other user pointed that the actual CN text uses countless rather than Infinite which constitute 2-B rating instead.

Also, Stellar Matrix is just a bunch of data stored as "stars" in Tethys Depth. Until Tethys actually made them into reality/Sonoro Sphere/Timelines or universes (as in the case of Camellya), Stellar Matrix are just that, a stored data.

 

[SweetDao]

we have earth/Solaris-3, sun (skip to 46:20),

The thing is, we clearly see the border of the simulation (the weird pixel wall in the background), sure, you could say it's just a gameplay limitation, but frankly, I wonder if there was really a need to "simulate a true sun light years away, alongside stars etc etc" just for a scene happening the black shore. One would think that Tethys system, being limited by his computing process, would not needlessly generate meaningless stuff. But, if you disagree, that is fine, I can accept that.

plus Camellya herself said that all universes (Skip to 1:29:30) where she and rover did not met, were all perished

I don't think it's really litteral. it's more so that they were fated, no matter the initial conditions, to always meet. Since those "universes" are mere data, Tethys probably computed that their encounter is a constant in "every universes" so only those universes remains. Especially since the only "universes" that Camellya experiment is inside the Stellar Matrix corresponding to her life.

Also, all these timelines where we see Camellya/Lady Flora's past and various what-ifs universes do exist simultaneously as Beatrice herself stated that we need to jump to a correct timeline (skip to 38:51) to find our Camellya and yes

This is fair enough, although I'd say the word "timeline" is never used in the CN.

these timelines are not just projection but also very real and can even invade the original universe.

Thing is, timelines are still data "unless" they become real/invade reality. Until they do, they have no "real" physicality (well technically code is physical but you get the idea...)

The only debate now is whether the word Infinite were used as some other user pointed that the actual CN text uses countless rather than Infinite which constitute 2-B rating instead.

Me, Eldemade, OP (I think?), and Alipheese were fine with 2-B, so yeah, we should change this.

 

[Bsk_lyree]

Sure, if you wish, the main issue is that those possibilities (different worlds) aren't instantiated into reality unless they open/generate said stellar matrix. Until they do that, it's just a bunch of codes in the sky acting as a star. Maybe you could scale the fact that the data would be enormous, idk.

Projection does not mean unreal in the text you gave, it is called "into reality" which means that the abstract data is manifested in real physical reality.

Each Matrix represents a vast and complete set of computing logic

Yes indeed, Tethys and Matrix are super computer systems so there is nothing wrong there.

 

[SweetDao]

Projection does not mean unreal in the text you gave, it is called "into reality" which means that the abstract data is manifested in real physical reality.

I mean, yeah, I'm saying that BEFORE it is projected (and you can enter, fight monsters...) it is only existing in the form of data.

Edit : In any case, that wasn't the main topic, so let's just change it to 2-B and be done with it.

 

[GDS2]

The fact that sun and other celestial object exist and that Camellya refers them are universes should be enough that these "timelines" that Tethys made are universal in size tbh.

Thing is, timelines are still data "unless" they become real/invade reality. Until they do, they have no "real" physicality (well technically code is physical but you get the idea...)

I am not sure what you mean here. The data are stored in the form of Stellar Matrix, when Matrix are realized and turned into Sonoro Sphere or Timelines, they are about as real as you can get without needing to breach into reality. Otherwise, if they are not real or have no physical form until breaching into real space, there wont be any worry that Rover might get hurt coming into these universes (Skip to 34:05).

There are statements about using Tethys to create projection, but those are specifically made to train recruits and the timelines that Tethys created to show Camellya's past are definitely not that.

Overall Rover can interact with them and everything in these timelines in turn can interact with Rover who come from real space, hence physical form even without needing to come real space. These timelines that Tethys created and everything in it are about as real as you can get them to be. I am not really sure what other proof are needed.

 

[SweetDao]

The fact that sun and other celestial object exist and that Camellya refers them are universes should be enough that these "timelines" that Tethys made are universal in size tbh.

Also, no, I checked everything related to this (Camellya story, Black shore story) and be it directly or indirectly, we have SK, Tethys and even Camellya admitting that the Tethys system only records Solaris. it's not because a character says "universe" that it necessiraly is, especially when that could just be a figure of speech.

I am not sure what you mean here. The data are stored in the form of Stellar Matrix, when Matrix are realized and turned into Sonoro Sphere or Timelines, they are about as real as you can get without needing to breach into reality. Otherwise, if they are not real until breaching into real space, there wont be any worry that Rover might get hurt coming into these universes (Skip to 34:05).

Yes? Look.

In a normal situation, a stellar matrix is only a star in the sky (which, while appearing like a star, is only codes upon codes inside). That much doesn't scale anywhere. I think we both agree on it.

It's only when someone wish to use, discover, enter...such a matrix, using the Sand Table/Sandbox, that it generate a corresponding space (through a Sonoro Sphere, like what happened with the Recruit/Camellya). Here, it might get a scaling, but that's about it.

There are statements about using Tethys to create projection, but those are specifically made to train recruits and the timelines that Tethys created to show Camellya's past are definitely not that.

It literally is tho, she used the same setup and needed the Sandbox to create a Sonoro Sphere and enter it, same with Rover.

 

[SweetDao]

But once again, this is not the topic, let's just wait for the 2-B to be accepted and move on, I feel like it will just end up in a back and forth and I have other stuff to do.

 

[GDS2]

But once again, this is not the topic, let's just wait for the 2-B to be accepted and move on, I feel like it will just end up in a back and forth and I have other stuff to do.

Agree. Also sorry, for derailing the thread.

 

[SweetDao]

Agree. Also sorry, for derailing the thread.

We can discuss in the general thread if you wish and my bad if it appeared rude, wasn't the intent.

 

[IStar0thh]

Idk how you can come into such conclusion but nothing in the scan say anything about possibility is independent universe-sized timeline

If the possibility isn't physically existing possibility then yeah, no 2-A to me

What’s your take on 2-B? Have you looked at the CN scan that mentions millions of universes, along with Jue’s Sonoro Sphere being described as containing the origin and end of all time sequences?

 

[Vietthai96]

that mentions millions of universes

can't find it, show probably you need to post it for me, sorry

 

[SweetDao]

can't find it, show probably you need to post it for me, sorry

(Ignore the "infinite" timelines)

 

[Vietthai96]

millions of possibilities

Why this translate into millions of universes?

 

[SweetDao]

Why this translate into millions of universes?

In the CN it's translated as such:

黑海岸花房中, 椿正靜靜凝望着無聲搖曳的植株們。星海深處,無數世界的可能性交織、分岔、中斷。命運盡頭,千萬個宇宙都走向同一種終局

MTL :
In the Black Coast Greenhouse, Tsubaki quietly gazes at the plants swaying silently.
In the depths of the starry sea, countless possibilities of innumerable worlds intertwine, diverge, and break apart.
At the end of fate, millions of universes all converge toward the same kind of end.

 

[IStar0thh]

Just realized upon finding the raw of that Camellya quest statement that it is indeed "countless" and not infinite.

With said quote being : 黑海岸花房中, 椿正靜靜凝望着無聲搖曳的植株們。星海深處,無數世界的可能性交織、分岔、中斷。命運盡頭,千萬個宇宙都走向同一種終局。

can't find it, show probably you need to post it for me, sorry