Kirby General Discussion Thread (fun edition)

[Eficiente]

Disagree with that take. You missed the second part.
Prayers of the children of the stars can easily refer to them praying for salvation and considering it is followed by "preform with the sound of screams" seems to mock them, as in - your prayers are pointless, you can pray with your screams instead. I ain't fully sure about it but I don't think we can dismiss it. Additionally children of the stars seems way too close, gonna have to check the kanji and such.

Like the tranlator note says, "奏 means to play an instrument, the instrument here being the crumbling star" It can't be "your prayers are pointless, you can pray with your screams" The latter part has the subject playing with something, and we know for sure the subject is Void playing with a destroyed star. Which means the subjects are not the Starries. It's nonsense that those prayers would be seen as mocked here, they're clearly prayers of the worshippers of Void Termina.

 

[Eficiente]

User:StarPunch/Figures (Japanese) - WiKirby: it's a wiki, about Kirby!

wikirby.com

So they create paths, rather than reveal them. Ok.

And it's less clear if MK "sensed" Fecto Forgo, too bad.

In the Japanese version of "TWINKLING STAR SHOWERS", the Starries are referred to as "unwanted children".

Power of Miracles also didn't properly work on Void, neither did the friend hearts. Time out is the only option for these guys.

Which one is TWINKLING STAR SHOWERS?

Well, Kirby didn't have the Power of Miracles yet. That one's implied to Fecto Elfilis' power, or a power related to him, and it would make sense that Kirby would gain it when right when he gained Mouthful Mode, while adapting his body in one of those dimensions where Fecto has giant DNAs in the background. In other words, it would make less sense if Kirby had that power before it. Friend Hearts are implied to not work because just how much darkness VT is made of, or the path of his path being set now. That much makes perfect sense.

I know I'm the one who said that Kirby didn't use his Power of Miracles on Meteronefilis, but my real issue is the accumulation of issues in the writing. I'm sure Kirby doesn't actually know he has something called Power of Miracles that fixed Chaos Elfilis twice. But he has it, Kumazaki knows this, and Kirby could have used it on Elfilis' brother. Lord of Chaos Chaos Elfilis is also stronger than Meteronefilis, yet it worked on the former anyway. I could say 1000 battle scenarios in which Kirby's Power of Miracles should not work, bc it's so vague and we don't know how it works. But it's intuitive that it should work on Meteronefilis, and that's an issue to be listed on the writing of Star-Crossed World. Do we agree with this?

Here's a theory, not that I believe it but it's a theory: The meteor passing over the New World over and over may be an actual Jamba Heart or another type of vessel for Void, with this "new" meteor being Meteronefilis. In other words, the narrative was being a little tricky, wanting us to think the meteor passing over the New World was always the Star of Darkness, not saying how this is not confirmed to be the case, leaving room for other similar things to fill such unconfirmed role.

Kirby has automatic translation of sorts

That's already on everyone's profiles, everyone who can talk to Waddle Dees. We already use every translation there.

 

[Arceus0x]

Like the tranlator note says, "奏 means to play an instrument, the instrument here being the crumbling star" It can't be "your prayers are pointless, you can pray with your screams" The latter part has the subject playing with something, and we know for sure the subject is Void playing with a destroyed star. Which means the subjects are not the Starries. It's nonsense that those prayers would be seen as mocked here, they're clearly prayers of the worshippers of Void Termina.

I still think you're misinterpreting it. Void is playing with a destroyed star whilst starries preform with their screams. It can be metaphorical you know, in fact, it clearly is. I mean, how tf do you think Void performs with a star? Takes out some sticks and plays through fire and flames? Nah it's clearly not meant to be literal and same goes for starries. They pray as thei world, their star gets destroyed and they "preform" with their screams as they perish. This fits well, does it not? Fits the idea of a morbid fate at the hands of a world destroyer.

Also like, regardless of whether you like it or not, they very specifically use Children of the Stars. There's 2 instances where they're used and one is the song and the other is the description saying "they're also called the children of the stars". Seems very obvious.

 

[Eficiente]

It's not clear to me if you listened what I said based on that; the Starries are not performing, Void Termina is performing. I already know how it's metaphorical that Void Termina plays with a destroyed star, but that does not leave room for the "prayers of the children of the stars" part being portrayed as victims rather than allies of Void Termina in context. You are way too sure of yourself, too attached to the ideas you feel are true. Your argument was how based on those 2 sentences, the second gave context to the first one; I gave you the real context of the second, and your argument was the same, either bc you didn't understand what I said or bc you think the first sentence can mock the prayers by itself, but you now lack the reason you had before to back that up and it's the same for you.

You also make this strange note of how it's metaphorical for Void to play with stars w/o realizing I may already know that and how it doesn't advance your point, and you do this bc you know you're correct about the topic you're covering (It's metaphorical for Void to play with stars), so therefore the other guy doesn't know about it and it advances your point. If you debate long enough, you can find certain people doing the same general thing a lot, but you can make sure you never do it yourself, even when casual. I politely ask you to up your game.

 

[Arceus0x]

It's not clear to me if you listened what I said based on that; the Starries are not performing, Void Termina is performing. I already know how it's metaphorical that Void Termina plays with a destroyed star, but that does not leave room for the "prayers of the children of the stars" part being portrayed as victims rather than allies of Void Termina in context.

Except it does. The whole line "prayers of the children of the stars" by itself means nothing even with the context. It is mentioned, that's it, nothing says they are praying for void termina or against him. From context of a star dying and them praying as screams errupt and Void Termina has his way with the star, very much makes sense narratively. What is better - your belief that this is some weird contradiction and that for some reason HAL decided they need 2 children of the stars that are actually not the same despite being named the exact same? Or the more simple belief that Void is "preforming" with their screams and with the dying star? I'd say occam's razor points to latter.

You are way too sure of yourself, too attached to the ideas you feel are true.

Pot calling the kettle black. You yourself pretty much believe that anything you write is infallible, it has always been that way. That arrogant unchanging position hasn't done you good.

Your argument was how based on those 2 sentences, the second gave context to the first one; I gave you the real context of the second, and your argument was the same, either bc you didn't understand what I said or bc you think the first sentence can mock the prayers by itself, but you now lack the reason you had before to back that up and it's the same for you.

I do understand that they aren't preforming but Void is preforming. Problem is, it doesn't change much in the end since yet again, there's no suggestion that they are praying to VT rather than praying for safety. Nothing says they support him, and if there is, bring proof.

You also make this strange note of how it's metaphorical for Void to play with stars w/o realizing I may already know that and how it doesn't advance your point, and you do this bc you know you're correct about the topic you're covering (It's metaphorical for Void to play with stars), so therefore the other guy doesn't know about it and it advances your point.

You've done that strategy a thousand times, but here my point was specifically that using something metaphorical as evidence for a contradiciton or an existence of some other children of the stars is not a good idea.

If you debate long enough, you can find certain people doing the same general thing a lot, but you can make sure you never do it yourself, even when casual. I politely ask you to up your game.

And I politely ask you not to teach me. I consider you an ally in the kirby scaling scene but outside of that I do not trust you with any of it.

 

[Arceus0x]

btw

KatFL Perfect Support Guide

See my Translations Masterpost See my Forgotten Land Translations Pg 101-109 システム解説System Explanation 敵キャラクターEnemy Characters ワイルドなコスチュームにお色直ししたギガントエッジ。大きな剣を振り回し、カービィに襲いかかってくる。大きなシールドで守りも固いぞ。 Gigant Edge changed into a wild costume. Wielding a large sword, they attack Kirby. Their guard is...

docs.google.com

Fecto uses Another Dimension????
Like I thought Treasure road was like AD but different.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

btw

KatFL Perfect Support Guide

See my Translations Masterpost See my Forgotten Land Translations Pg 101-109 システム解説System Explanation 敵キャラクターEnemy Characters ワイルドなコスチュームにお色直ししたギガントエッジ。大きな剣を振り回し、カービィに襲いかかってくる。大きなシールドで守りも固いぞ。 Gigant Edge changed into a wild costume. Wielding a large sword, they attack Kirby. Their guard is...

docs.google.com

Fecto uses Another Dimension????
Like I thought Treasure road was like AD but different.

Mistranslation.

Kūkan kara zangai no katamari o yobiyoseru. Mazuwa yoko hōkō ni idō shi tsudzukete kaihi shiyou. Kyodaina katamari ga mietara, jimen ni kage ga dekite inai sayū no hashi no dochira ka ni isoide hinan suru koto.

It summons a mass of debris from space. First, keep moving sideways to avoid it. When you see a huge mass, quickly evacuate to either the left or right edge where there is no shadow on the ground.

 

[Eficiente]

Except it does. The whole line "prayers of the children of the stars" by itself means nothing even with the context. It is mentioned, that's it, nothing says they are praying for void termina or against him. From context of a star dying and them praying as screams errupt and Void Termina has his way with the star, very much makes sense narratively.

Or the more simple belief that Void is "preforming" with their screams and with the dying star? I'd say occam's razor points to latter.

There is no context giving that would imply the prayers of the children of the stars would be as victims, we see Void Termina's rampage being glorified in a prayer/song by followers, who give prayers to him time and again, simply saying "prayers of the children of the stars" just like that in a song therefore refers to the worshippers. It's very intuitive that Void Termina is only playing with the dying stars as sang before, rather doing so on top of victimizing the "prayers of the children of the stars" just mentioned, that's not what the song is saying, that has the agenda of making the children of the stars the Starries.

What is better - your belief that this is some weird contradiction and that for some reason HAL decided they need 2 children of the stars that are actually not the same despite being named the exact same?

That's not what a contradiction is, you see it that way to justify your belief; if 2 different ideas/concepts are named the same way, then uses of these different names to refer to each idea is each narrative doing its own thing, not a contradiction. It would be a contradiction if they were already referring to the same concept, in a way that's proven. And in this case, we know without speculation that they refer to different ideas bc the Starries don't exist in the same universe, the song doesn't imply their victimization, and there is no proof they would pray when facing the end, with how single-minded they are, wasting much of their lives to act as a sealing against evil. In other words, you saw 2 different ideas named the same way as being unacceptable, so it necessarily had to be a contradiction.

Pot calling the kettle black. You yourself pretty much believe that anything you write is infallible, it has always been that way. That arrogant unchanging position hasn't done you good.

Reflecting can make you feel better but it won't fix your issues. I said what I said on the basis on a notable error you could have avoided, you say this about me on the basis of perceived reputation rather than anything present here. So you're making it more personal for no reason. I'm opened to debates so who knows what do you mean exactly. I have noticed that reputation to be based on very selective memory, even counting faults where there isn't any, and with people often times not counting their own faults around, I don't view it as something healthily perceived. If you were to exemplify this it would come to do some very specific links that I would be able to argue back against anyway, yet you say "it has always been that way." It's easy for me to believe you simply felt negatively about me, and that because you feel that way about me that must therefore be reality. We can continue this in a private conversation if you want to elaborate on that defamation.

I do understand that they aren't preforming but Void is preforming. Problem is, it doesn't change much in the end since yet again, there's no suggestion that they are praying to VT rather than praying for safety. Nothing says they support him, and if there is, bring proof.

Can you be more transparent? Your comment before said "Void is playing with a destroyed star whilst starries preform with their screams." So no, you didn't understand how Void was playing. Now you do. And this is what you mean with "I do understand that they aren't preforming but Void is preforming." Now, personally, I would have said something among the lines of "You're right, Void is performing, my bad. That said, it wouldn't matter bc [X]" Not that you need to do that, but it seems to me that maybe you understood now that Void is performing while forgetting how you argued otherwise, yet remembering the negative feeling of being told you did something wrong in an unaddressed way, given the stuff you say to me.

The rest is already covered before.

You've done that strategy a thousand times,

Well, I don't trust your memory, and I don't appreciate being defamed. Show me in private the last time I did it. Surely I won't be able to point how it matters to the debate.

but here my point was specifically that using something metaphorical as evidence for a contradiciton or an existence of some other children of the stars is not a good idea.

It wouldn't be related bc that part of the song is talking about its own thing. You say it has to refer to the prayers of the children of the stars as well, but you and me both know the "playing with a dying star" part is metaphorical, you're not countering me or anything. So do you recognize you were not covering a relevant point?

And I politely ask you not to teach me. I consider you an ally in the kirby scaling scene but outside of that I do not trust you with any of it.

Ok. You can reject my observations, but don't escalate them to personal defamation like you did. They can start and end at, I do an observation, you disagree/agree. They're not personal attacks.

 

[Eficiente]

Another example of different ideas covered by the same name is "paradise." Void Termina was going to destroy that, and later the Jambastion cult went on to find their own paradise, which is implied to be just a nice place where to hang out, not knowing where to find it yet, and a beach on Popstar serving as it. Hyness's enemies and the cult each can have their own paradise.

Void (3rd VT, 4rd phase) is also aiming to "surpass those stars" as in aiming to defeat his enemies, yet it's something of a double meaning with prior pause descriptions saying he would literally destroy stars.

 

[Jimmy.robinson.5099]

I find it kinda funny for how cozy and fun Kirby is, we can so easily get up in arms about the lore at play here.

 

[Eficiente]

The debate about the lore is the debate about the lore, what's inappropriate is getting defamed like that. If Arceus0x finds my observations over him inappropriate rather than simply disagreeable, he can explain himself.

On the topic of 2 different ideas/concepts being named the same way; That may sound just a little misleading. Hyness's cult and the Starries may both be children of the stars, in the sense that many more can also be children of the stars. It can be a way the series calls creatures born in space or related to the stars, making it not limited to the Starries. And the Jambastion people live in the artificial planet of Jambandra, parts of it having a constant view to the outer space outside.

 

[Arceus0x]

There is no context giving that would imply the prayers of the children of the stars would be as victims, we see Void Termina's rampage being glorified in a prayer/song by followers, who give prayers to him time and again, simply saying "prayers of the children of the stars" just like that in a song therefore refers to the worshippers. It's very intuitive that Void Termina is only playing with the dying stars as sang before, rather doing so on top of victimizing the "prayers of the children of the stars" just mentioned, that's not what the song is saying, that has the agenda of making the children of the stars the Starries.

yes, it has, and I am in fact very much insinuating that they are Starries. The sentence was disconnected from the whole thing. It fits the most that they are praying because the literal thing that births them is being destroyed. Also, agenda? "Children of the stars" being "children of the stars" isn't an agenda, it is a blatant thing they call the starries and we find it within the song. It is clearly intentional.

That's not what a contradiction is, you see it that way to justify your belief; if 2 different ideas/concepts are named the same way, then uses of these different names to refer to each idea is each narrative doing its own thing, not a contradiction.

didn't say it was a contradiction, i was saying that it would either be a contradiction or it would mean there are two different children of the stars. Since it wouldn't make sense for that and the narrative fits the idea that they're the same, once you look at it from the right angle, then it will in fact fit. Instead you're going with the weird route of thinking there's 2 different children of the stars, one of whom never get touched upon again whilst the other ones are. It is extremely weird for that to be the case, that's why I disagree. There's no clear objectivity here, but one thing for sure is that your idea isn't objective at all.

And in this case, we know without speculation that they refer to different ideas bc the Starries don't exist in the same universe, the song doesn't imply their victimization, and there is no proof they would pray when facing the end, with how single-minded they are, wasting much of their lives to act as a sealing against evil. In other words, you saw 2 different ideas named the same way as being unacceptable, so it necessarily had to be a contradiction.

This is a far bigger assumption than the one I was making. Starries explore space, we know they sealed GK and if I remember correctly there was something with their dimensional travel too. Prayers are always symbolic, they are the hope of someone that something will save them. If your home is being torn apart by an apocalyptic titan you'd be "praying", no matter how simple-minded you are. Also, simple-minded? Really? The things that can understand that they need to seal evil away and do so out of the goodness of their heart? Such creatures wouldn't be able to hope, pray? Wasting much of their lives? They are protecting countless planets as much as they can, the only reason the New World didn't sink to the bottom of the ocean on impact of the meteor is because of them.
This isn't a me being obtuse issue, this is you trying to form an objective fact out of a metaphorical song and an assumption, an actual assumption that these are just some random unrelated children of the stars. I call bull.

I said what I said on the basis on a notable error you could have avoided, you say this about me on the basis of perceived reputation rather than anything present here.

Yes, I am going off the basis of having known you for approximately 5 years or more and knowing that you will get some idea and you will not stop stonewalling it until a staff member comes in and says they actually disagree with you and you get outvoted. That's how it has always been, that's why I am seeing less and less point in arguing about this topic since you aren't gonna change your mind no matter how hard I try to argue.

So you're making it more personal for no reason. I'm opened to debates so who knows what do you mean exactly. I have noticed that reputation to be based on very selective memory, even counting faults where there isn't any, and with people often times not counting their own faults around, I don't view it as something healthily perceived.

selective memory? The same memory that got you demoted? That's a lot of selective memories.

If you were to exemplify this it would come to do some very specific links that I would be able to argue back against anyway, yet you say "it has always been that way." It's easy for me to believe you simply felt negatively about me, and that because you feel that way about me that must therefore be reality. We can continue this in a private conversation if you want to elaborate on that defamation.

defamation isn't defamation. No matter what argument I've gotten into with you, no matter how small, it has always ended up getting stonewalled. I am going off of very clear-cut experience, not some dellusion.

Can you be more transparent? Your comment before said "Void is playing with a destroyed star whilst starries preform with their screams." So no, you didn't understand how Void was playing. Now you do. And this is what you mean with "I do understand that they aren't preforming but Void is preforming." Now, personally, I would have said something among the lines of "You're right, Void is performing, my bad. That said, it wouldn't matter bc [X]" Not that you need to do that, but it seems to me that maybe you understood now that Void is performing while forgetting how you argued otherwise, yet remembering the negative feeling of being told you did something wrong in an unaddressed way, given the stuff you say to me.

I don't care what you would've said. I got the gist of what you're saying, I reworked my argument. It is as simple as that.

Well, I don't trust your memory, and I don't appreciate being defamed. Show me in private the last time I did it. Surely I won't be able to point how it matters to the debate.

When I tried to downgrade Kirby to see if it holds up whilst simultaneously upgrading the 2-C value you very much acted that way during the overall debate. I ain't gonna go back and pick apart every single little word to prove this to you.

It wouldn't be related bc that part of the song is talking about its own thing. You say it has to refer to the prayers of the children of the stars as well, but you and me both know the "playing with a dying star" part is metaphorical, you're not countering me or anything. So do you recognize you were not covering a relevant point?

I was covering a very relevant point. I originally though those two things may be related yes, but now I don't. Problem is, if you agree that it is metaphorical and unrelated, then there's no more evidence that the praying children of the stars are actually praying to void or that they aren't starries. Either one goes or the other.

Ok. You can reject my observations, but don't escalate them to personal defamation like you did. They can start and end at, I do an observation, you disagree/agree. They're not personal attacks.

It's not defamation to say that you stonewall arguments constantly with various methods.

I'll go back to dealing with my own thing now. If I see sth kirby related I'll send it here.

 

[Eficiente]

At this point I just agree to disagree, but many of the things you say don't sit right with me beyond that.

Starries explore space, we know they sealed GK

It's possible they sealed Galacta Knight but we don't know that for sure, the narrative doesn't confirm it.

Yes, I am going off the basis of having known you for approximately 5 years or more and knowing that you will get some idea and you will not stop stonewalling it until a staff member comes in and says they actually disagree with you and you get outvoted. That's how it has always been, that's why I am seeing less and less point in arguing about this topic since you aren't gonna change your mind no matter how hard I try to argue.

selective memory? The same memory that got you demoted? That's a lot of selective memories.

I told you to not make it personal and now I need to reply to this sh*t, wonderful. You got some very specific examples to go off, yet you portrayed it as much more wide than that, and I can disagree with the accuracy of most of those examples, which you don't care about it, that I was seen as wrong and to use them as examples to show off is all that matters to you.

When talking about my demotion I was told most of the examples presented as violations were not actually violations, then I was given a relatively shorter list of things accepted as violations. So which one is it when you say "a lot of selective memories"? Everything presented or the actual list accepted I was given? Because in context with how present you think my issues are, I believe you think it's the former, which would be in line with the point I was making. If it's the latter then you should know these issues you bring up are not as present as you imply.

Even then, I was debating my first violation listed, I argued it wouldn't be a violation anywhere else and that I could source a book on psychology to claim that it would be unhealthy to disallow me to say what I said in the violation, and I was told the wiki makes its rules its own way. And then the talk got stucked when I asked them to clarify such intolerance in their rules. You can champion the wiki's decisions, I can argue some of those are not correct, but that would only matter if you wanted to do more than to leave things at "making me look bad." As a whole, saying "selective memory? The same memory that got you demoted? That's a lot of selective memories." sounds like you think you're in a rap battle with me and it's your turn to dish me.

Talk me in private about it or don't talk about it.

defamation isn't defamation. No matter what argument I've gotten into with you, no matter how small, it has always ended up getting stonewalled. I am going off of very clear-cut experience, not some dellusion.

No, you're exaggerating, what you say is based on a perception of things you refuse to put to a debate or to continue in private. It is defamation, and you feel entitled to it based on how wronged you feel here.

I don't care what you would've said. I got the gist of what you're saying, I reworked my argument. It is as simple as that.

Well, part of what you were saying to me before may have been different if you had admitted that you were wrong there, since the portrayal of your stance makes everything seem super obvious and always in the right.

When I tried to downgrade Kirby to see if it holds up whilst simultaneously upgrading the 2-C value you very much acted that way during the overall debate. I ain't gonna go back and pick apart every single little word to prove this to you.

1. I said "Show me in private." 2. Like I said, I don't trust you memory, I want to see 1 example, not a generalization. I remember you badly in that thread but I'm not going to elaborate on it.

It's not defamation to say that you stonewall arguments constantly with various methods.

"Defamation is a statement that injures a third party's reputation." You need to keep it on the topics at hand, not bring up other things I may disagree with that I can't cover too much of bc the thread is not about it. And bc I can't cover such topics here, you can't bring them here. The reason you do this is to undermine me based on the info you bring, and to feel better about the stuff I say, but it's not your position to do something about that info. Feeling entitled to doing this anyway on the premise that the info you bring is correct is petty for not respecting the stuff said before. Do this 1 more time and I will report you.

 

[Eseseso]

Both of you please calm down.

 

[Galactidot]

Both of you please calm down.

They're putting the
"(fun edition)"
in the

"Kirby General Discussion Thread (fun edition)"​

 

[Galactidot]

I know I'm the one who said that Kirby didn't use his Power of Miracles on Meteronefilis, but my real issue is the accumulation of issues in the writing. I'm sure Kirby doesn't actually know he has something called Power of Miracles that fixed Chaos Elfilis twice. But he has it, Kumazaki knows this, and Kirby could have used it on Elfilis' brother. Lord of Chaos Chaos Elfilis is also stronger than Meteronefilis, yet it worked on the former anyway. I could say 1000 battle scenarios in which Kirby's Power of Miracles should not work, bc it's so vague and we don't know how it works. But it's intuitive that it should work on Meteronefilis, and that's an issue to be listed on the writing of Star-Crossed World. Do we agree with this?

God Chaos Elfilis is certainly stronger than Meteo, but Meteo being a Void would prevent the Power of Miracles from working just as Friends Hearts didn't work on Void.
We should note here that God Chaos Elfilis didn't absorb Meteo, but rather Starries. They would not have the same immunities as a Void.

Meteo and Chaos God Elfilis are both worth looking into for their own reasons:

Meteo has many connections to Void.

Beyond the visible connections, the Void orb, and the body vanishing in the same fashion Star Allies' Void did...


"It repeats a thousandfold as time passes by.
Tonight, darkness or light, whose birthday will it be?"
Lyrics from the Japanese version of TWINKLING STAR SHOWERS, these sing of... well...

"No telling if it's true, but according to the ancient scrolls, Void Termina may rise again in other forms depending on whether positive or negative energy is gathered. It seems this being of darkness will wander the galaxy until one day he is reborn into a new existence. When he returns, hopefully it will be as...a friend."
A being rebirthed into a new form, effectively quoting the rules on Voids. Better yet, Elfilin restates this:

"Meteonelfilis may be wrapped in crystal, but his power is still terrifying. But if we traverse space with the Starries and our hearts connect, I'm sure we can befriend him when he awakens again."
Yet again, we see the same thing. It gets better when we learn that Meteo also creates life --- unwanted life in the form of the Starries.

"The voices of the stars pray to be heard.
Reflected in your eyes—that planet.
The song of your unwanted children weaves the future."
Above all else, "Panspermia, Caller of Ruin"
God of Chaos Elfilis and the Starries
We can see that the Starries:

"traveled across the galaxy beyond time and space"

In order to seal away Meteo. We also see that Starries do indeed wait for others to guide them:

"They fell across the land of this planet and turned into crystal, waiting for someone to guide them"

Which does admittedly line up with @Arceus0x 's idea of magic ancients using Starries for sealing.

Chaos Elfilis absorbed Starries withing Meteo's spear in order to become a god. Would they now scale to that beyond time and space statement?

This is honestly the sort of stuff we should be talking about...

 

[Eficiente]

God Chaos Elfilis is certainly stronger than Meteo, but Meteo being a Void would prevent the Power of Miracles from working just as Friends Hearts didn't work on Void.
We should note here that God Chaos Elfilis didn't absorb Meteo, but rather Starries. They would not have the same immunities as a Void.

Well I already gave a reason as to why Meteo wouldn't be able to be a Void before:

Also how can he be Void and have a brother when Void is the original ancenstor from which all other life forms descend?

For Meteor to have a brother, he and the brother need an originator in their kind (not necessarily a traditional female mother, we can get weird like that), which is not possible for Void. Void is the first in everyone's family trees per universe, and then his reincarnations come from vessels with no relatives.

Kirby didn't use the Power of Miracles on Void, bc again, Kirby didn't have that power at the time. It's not the sort of thing we can say he uses on others aside from when the writing says he does, or if we ever see him turn others into a small light, which means he didn't use it on Meteo.

Beyond the visible connections, the Void orb,

To note, a lot of Kirby final bosses are orbs, and anyone who isn't Void inherited unknown powers and things from the originator Void, such as having an orb-like body.

and the body vanishing in the same fashion Star Allies' Void did...

It's similar but the effects are not the same, and the body turns darker before it happens, which Void Termina's body doesn't do. Otherwise sure.

"It repeats a thousandfold as time passes by.
Tonight, darkness or light, whose birthday will it be?"
Lyrics from the Japanese version of TWINKLING STAR SHOWERS, these sing of... well...

"No telling if it's true, but according to the ancient scrolls, Void Termina may rise again in other forms depending on whether positive or negative energy is gathered. It seems this being of darkness will wander the galaxy until one day he is reborn into a new existence. When he returns, hopefully it will be as...a friend."

That's the mistranslated English version of Void's rules. In truth, Void isn't either "positive" or "negative," he has infinite posibilities in terms of his morality. Yes we only focus on if he's good or evil but that's as far as the similarity goes.

A being rebirthed into a new form, effectively quoting the rules on Voids.

About that, Meteo and Elfilis affect their own forms and minds based on what they absorb; As Chaos Elfilis, with the souls of Morpho Knight absorbed, it was said that "They no longer have much emotion left, acting only on destructive impulses." And likewise Meteo was not dead in the same way Void was, as Meteo still revives with the memories he had before dying, having a brother. Void fully resets who he is and starts a new life with a new name.

Better yet, Elfilin restates this:

"Meteonelfilis may be wrapped in crystal, but his power is still terrifying. But if we traverse space with the Starries and our hearts connect, I'm sure we can befriend him when he awakens again."

Sure it is similar than with Void, but it can also be due to Kirby's Power of Miracles you discarded. And it was discarded on the premise that Meteo is a Void, but this is part of the proof that he is. Again, this is similar than what Void has going on, but we don't know anything for sure because it's vague.

Yet again, we see the same thing. It gets better when we learn that Meteo also creates life --- unwanted life in the form of the Starries.

"The voices of the stars pray to be heard.
Reflected in your eyes—that planet.
The song of your unwanted children weaves the future."
Above all else, "Panspermia, Caller of Ruin"

Ok.

We can see that the Starries:

"traveled across the galaxy beyond time and space"

In order to seal away Meteo.

Ok, but that doesn't really work in favor of your point. If he's not from that universe or not, it doesn't bring him any closer to being a Void.

We also see that Starries do indeed wait for others to guide them:

"They fell across the land of this planet and turned into crystal, waiting for someone to guide them"

Which does admittedly line up with @Arceus0x 's idea of magic ancients using Starries for sealing.

Maybe, are you sure it's not something they did this time rather than something they always do? Not saying others like the ancients couldn't use Starries anyway, I like the idea. Just saying, it's a common thing in Kirby to see a line say "character does X" and react to it as if it's their very nature to always do it like that.

So we're not talking about Meteo being Void anymore? If so then forget my prior point.

Chaos Elfilis absorbed Starries withing Meteo's spear in order to become a god. Would they now scale to that beyond time and space statement?

What do you mean? That's similar to how the series refers to Another Dimension. Sure Chaos Elfilis may now be able go there, if he wasn't able to do it before. It's also possible the Starries got help from the humans to get there at the time rather than by their own abilities -- I mean you said they work by getting guided. I find likely they can travel across dimensions and time by themselves tho, and that God of Chaos Chaos Elfilis of Chaos scales to those abilities.

 

[Galactidot]

For Meteor to have a brother, he and the brother need an originator in their kind (not necessarily a traditional female mother, we can get weird like that), which is not possible for Void. Void is the first in everyone's family trees per universe, and then his reincarnations come from vessels with no relatives.

King Olly

 

[Eficiente]

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. I can imagine, but please put it in your own words.

 

[Galactidot]

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. I can imagine, but please put it in your own words.

Sorry, It was late and I responded to that like a text, what i was referring to is a trope where an older sibling creates younger ones. I used King Olly from Paper Mario the Origami King as an example, he created Olivia, yet is her older brother.

 

[Eficiente]

Well, that's the exception, by definition that's not what brothers or sisters on one's kind are. And you can call it a trope but doing anything outside the norm is a trope bc it's fun, it doesn't mean anything. It would be different if it was a more common thing understood to defy itself it, like a hyperbole or a statement meant to be challenged. In this case this needs to necessarily be understood by how it works in reality rather than speculating things like that behind the scenes.

We can speculate that maybe Meteo and Elfilis are direct sons of a Void, whereas everyone else are great great great great (and so on) grandsons of a Void. And at that point no argument would deny this idea.

 

[Eficiente]

Say, I have this old blog called "Kirby: Implied power hierarchy + Proof of how top-tiers don't hold back." I never liked the name. It's meant to show the hierarchy in stats beyond just calc'd feats, and how "Kirby level" characters don't hold back (except on the rare cases when they do). Not a lot of effort went into it since it was self-explanatory, but I plan to restructure it a little.

How should I name the thing, giving across the idea of what it's meant to show? I can't really separate both topics as it's far more practical to show them both in 1 blog.

 

[OrangeFR]

I was wondering, is there any concrete statements about the 1000 years thing between Amazing Mirror and Triple Deluxe? I checked on Wikirby and its translations were along the lines of the Dreamstalk having data from creatures for 1000 years or something.

 

[OrangeFR]

Say, I have this old blog called "Kirby: Implied power hierarchy + Proof of how top-tiers don't hold back." I never liked the name. It's meant to show the hierarchy in stats beyond just calc'd feats, and how "Kirby level" characters don't hold back (except on the rare cases when they do). Not a lot of effort went into it since it was self-explanatory, but I plan to restructure it a little.

How should I name the thing, giving across the idea of what it's meant to show? I can't really separate both topics as it's far more practical to show them both in 1 blog.

ADVERTISEMENT

Honestly the name sounds fine to me, I can’t think of anything different

 

[Eficiente]

I was wondering, is there any concrete statements about the 1000 years thing between Amazing Mirror and Triple Deluxe? I checked on Wikirby and its translations were along the lines of the Dreamstalk having data from creatures for 1000 years or something.

There isn't. This is my updated version of the explanation, unlike the version we use right now. As you can see, "many, many years" happened, "countless years" per say. Although giving a simplified version would be a mistake for something like this.

That said, I could add an expandable, skippable tab like the one I have on the Master Crown feat. It explain things like how the devs "never explicitly state the timeline of the series," how "one of the joys of the 'Kirby' series is that there are parts that aren't obvious at first glance, and that the sense of mystery continues until the very end." and "elements that add depth are kept only as subsidiary aspects, carefully arranged so that they remain hidden in the background."

 

[Eficiente]

Btw, people, you all know I use translations that look like this, right? They used to be more simple, and I stylized them to look better, so that one could copy & paste the image to a video if they feel like it, and to remove the English text from the Imgur description, bc Imgur has a set limit, deleting any word beyond that.

Well, it turns out, I was told short ago off-wiki to no longer use "Jap." as an abbreviation for Japanese, as it is a slur. It's something that applies to most English-speaking contexts from what I have seen, and I didn't know that for years 'cause I'm from Argentina (It's not a slur from my side, I never saw any educational source depicting it as such, nor any media doing the same). Neither did anyone in the wiki ever told me. So I'm slowly incorporating "Jpn." as an abbreviation whenever possible to respect that, in case anyone notices the inconsistency, and all images created after that point in time have "Jpn." That said, I already have tons of Imgur images that use "Jap." as an abbreviation yet to be added on profiles, created before I was told that. So that sucks.

This will definitely be fully fixed eventually, but I will have to apply the stuff already created as to not work on more images again, to keep the flow of the edits so far, and bc I'm already late on the edits as they are. Not that this is ideal, if I could just snap my fingers and change all the images while keeping the links to those images the same, I would.

 

[Chianli]

 

[Galactidot]

HEAR YE HEAR YE

 

[Chianli]

HEAR YE HEAR YE

You gotta have to watch the whole direct because HOLY HELL, did it revealed a lot, like, big lore

 

[Galactidot]

You gotta have to watch the whole direct because HOLY HELL, did it revealed a lot, like, big lore

Yup, watched it live and my autistic ass cried after for 30 mins

 

[Chianli]

Yup, watched it live and my autistic ass cried after for 30 mins

I cant believe even in the poweescaling view, they are also eating good

 

[Galactidot]

I cant believe even in the poweescaling view, they are also eating good

What sort of things did you see in that regard?

 

[Eficiente]

Damn. So much stuff.

 

[Chianli]

What sort of things did you see in that regard?

Spoiler: This argument can be seateled at last.

Hyper realistic golactic nova, and it is damaged aswell, though, I wonder what this implies for canon, as I really dont think Kirby air riders is canon.

 

[Eficiente]

All games are canon, at worst happening in parallel worlds. Air Riders is as canon as Air Ride, which Kirby can put stickers of on his Robobot Armor during a mainline game. Not just in gameplay, but seen in cutscenes as well.

 

[Galactidot]

All games are canon, at worst happening in parallel worlds. Air Riders is as canon as Air Ride, which Kirby can put stickers of on his Robobot Armor during a mainline game. Not just in gameplay, but seen in cutscenes as well.

THANK YOU, Kirby Air Riders genuinely has lore that I find super interesting, like Marx being absent from the opening cutscene while his theme plays inside the Nova stage! That's all theories, but we'll see what this game brings!

(All games are canon... except Kirby's Avalanche, what the hell was that)

 

[Galactidot]

Holyyy shi

Does anyone else hear those Ancient Bells tolling, or is it just me?

 

[Eficiente]

When your regeneration misses the clock.

 

[Eficiente]

I finished writing these 2 things:

• A blog covering the Jambastion cult, mostly a character analysis but with many things to be used as proof on profiles in the future.
• Explanations on what the following is: "Substances," "substance of darkness," "substance of heart," "substance of dream," "substance of soul," "Chaos," "possibilities."

 

[Chianli]

I finished writing these 2 things:

• A blog covering the Jambastion cult, mostly a character analysis but with many things to be used as proof on profiles in the future.
• Explanations on what the following is: "Substances," "substance of darkness," "substance of heart," "substance of dream," "substance of soul," "Chaos," "possibilities."

About the ancients page, will you add recently suggested infor from the most current mainline game kirby game (& it's DLC)? considering how much lore it drops

Now that you pointed it out how weirdly characterized the characters were in star allies, I wonder they realized half way into developing the game or dlc of it & said to themselves "Hey, why WOULD kirby pardoned a literal cultist?" hopefully that was a one off thing, considering they did a major course correction with Fecto Forgo (& then again with its older brother, Fecto whatever the hell you pronounce itfilis), & the fact they portrayed magolor literally atoning for his misdeeds & sin, as he journeys through literal space-time paradox hell