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Kirby General Discussion Thread (fun edition)

Eficiente said:
Well, it's not like they kidnap them. They eat them, which is better. I think you can see them putting them in their mouths. They gain more than Copy Abilities.
Click to expand...
Didn't see them put it in their mouth. MK juat realeases a suck up thing from his hand and the enemy disappears. Maybe a airmanip+transmutation+powermimicry combo?
 
I think the games's out already?

Parastella Crystallis(That's his title) Genwel Meteonelfilis (What is that name. I don't think I spelt that correctly) is apparently Elfilis' older brother who arrived at the Forgotten Land because Elfilis failed to conquer it. Also the new arena Final Boss is Chaos Elfilis again but with a different title(Lord of Chaos) and different moves (Didnt he fail already?) and the same cutscenes as the original what is going on with these final arena bosses? Did he absorb his older brother?
 
Ret_of_Guys said:
I think the games's out already?

Parastella Crystallis(That's his title) Genwel Meteonelfilis (What is that name. I don't think I spelt that correctly) is apparently Elfilis' older brother who arrived at the Forgotten Land because Elfilis failed to conquer it. Also the new arena Final Boss is Chaos Elfilis again but with a different title(Lord of Chaos) and different moves (Didnt he fail already?) and the same cutscenes as the original what is going on with these final arena bosses? Did he absorb his older brother?
Click to expand...
It releases tomorrow 😭🙏
 
There's nothing new for powerscaling outside of forms and a few abilities but there is a lot of stuff for lore
 
So lore is insane. I will go over things in spoilers. DO NOT OPEN IF YOU DON'T WANNA BE SPOILED. THERE'S MAJOR IMPLICATIONS.
-Elfelis has a brother, Meteonelfelis
-Meteo saw him get his ass handed to him and headed over
-Starries are the children of the stars
-They seal away evil in hear-shaped crystals
-They sealed away the Strongest who could Destroy the galaxy according to JP translations
-The spear of Meteon is called Ares and Elfelis' Antares
-Elfelis becomes the Lord of Chaos by taking both spears BUT in the JP translation he is the GOD of Chaos
-Meteon has a Void-Termina-like thing
-NEW WORLD ships were prototypes of the Lor (same exact circle structure)
-NW ships travelled the galaxy and Lor travelled the universe
-Neichel, the singer that sung the main song of SCW during the kirby concert event is a canon character in the universe, she literally sang it.
-Neichel had prophetic dreams that made the songs
-Neichel remained on the planet in the end
-Her songs were used as a soothing system in the ships and somehow the wondaria park was in there too?
-Neichel's last song, an unfinished song, pretty blatantly sings from the perspective of Lor Starcutter and about Dreamland
-Neichel might be Lor, somehow.
-The beeping that replaces the song and the beeping at the end of the song are both that of Lor in RTDL

-FL is probably Earth, THE earth.
 
Commentador Waddle Dee: "What's this? Is this a final battle with the planet at risk?"~

Also Commentador Waddle Dee: "Kirby you did nothing less than to save all of existence!"

Is he... guessing Lord of Chaos Chaos Elfilis was going to leave that pocket space and destroy the multiverse? Just like that? Don't get me wrong, that sounds like something a God of Chaos would do, and they do have a power amp, but hopefully I'm missing something, otherwise it's kinda dumb.

That's not to say he's necessarily lying, he was shown sensing Leongar's powers, so that's something.

Well people, if this is in the Jap. version, the thread I will do about it will have this new, amped Chaos Elfilis, Kirby, Bandana Dee, and Elfilin's durability & possible AP as higher into possibly 2-C. Outright higher into 2-C is this ends up being supported.

And after my own revisions I'm planning for the future, it will become even higher into 2-C and possibly 2-A.

Don't get your hopes too high tho, the villains were mostly aliens who just wanted to eat and grow in power, multiversal destruccion is many steps above that. It's hard-carried by "God of Chaos" meaning who knows what, the vague narrative of an end of the things, and the big range of Starries'powers and Meteonefilis' "I can suck the setting around, and the background but not ready" move having such a big range, unlike anything else these villains show.
 
How does Kirby even get into 2-A lol

Also this does seem kinda iffy like I don't think Meteonelfilis wants to destroy universes and stuff like that
 
I talked about it already, otherwise leave it to me.

Not Meteronefilis, the more powerful God of Chaos [Lord of Chaos in America] Chaos Elfilis. As I said, it will need to be supported, it could get info against it that would kill the idea, and I understand how they just wanted to conquer 1 planet at a time at first. I know. But they went deeper into Chaos now, with "Chaos" being evil in Kirby. Their brother is defeated. This Chaos Elfilis' goals and mindset are unknown. As such, their more simple prior goals are not anti-feats.

There is also a vague narrative around of some villain being able to end things, with the scale of it not being known.
 
Eficiente said:
But they went deeper into Chaos now, with "Chaos" being evil in Kirby.
Click to expand...
Remember Void Termina, who was going to destroy the universe over time? He was made of so much darkness inside his soul that it turned into Chaos.

Also something minor, Void Termina may not even be a real God, yet this God of Chaos is called God by narration itself. That's the second real god in the series after Landia.
 
Chianli said:
Is Ultimate Cup Z EX even canon?
Click to expand...
Yes. The Colosseum holds supernatural tournaments that never made any sense if not seen as supernatural in nature, but all referenced by the people in town. Same town where the more traditional parts of the story happens, and the tournaments happen in between. This time around, the reason it changed was due to the meteor and Chaos Elfilis having absorbed Meteonelfilis' spear. Meteonelfilis, in turn, absorbed Starries with mysterious, implied time and causality powers, doing things like:
  • Revealing pathways (not creating presently, revealing as if already there) for Kirby to follow his adventure time and again, somehow knowing Kirby would walk in those sections of the planet, that they would fall in that planet, and in which the areas they fell.
  • Revealing a bridge and elevator for Kirby to go into the final battle inside the island that raised when the meteor fell.
  • Such ability was even able to create ice-like pillars when Lord of Chaos Chaos Elfilis uses their sun-like attack, "coincidentally," as if helping Kirby from the past.
It's all nonsense if you don't accept retroactive, supernatural elements going on here.

..The writing is still mid tho. Kirby falls into a cave while needing to save lives 'cause he forgot how to fly, being used not as a thinking character, but a tool the writing needed to show the lore implications of the New World people having been in that island, and the "epic arrival" to the final battle. Takes me out of the story. I don't care about the latter 2 things if it comes out of that cost, I just think it's pretentious. Just have the villain smash Kirby into that cave, I'm tired of Kumazaki doing this, it was fine at first but I had enough now that I know for sure he will do it again in a future game.
 
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I mean the less they remind people Kirby can just fly infinitely normally, the less weird the gameplay is not letting you is weird to people.
 
I could explain how that's not a good reason, but I will leave it at that.

They also don't let you enter the area where the Star of Darkness is before you seal it, and if they had done so, players would just attack & shoot it (which would do nothing) and ask themselves "wait can't I just kill this thing before it becomes a threat? And then the idea would pop up in their minds as he revives. So yes, it would have been wise to destroy it prematurely, it's weaker, it's present here unlike with the Jamba Heart situation. You tell the Starries and then that's it, they no longer need to waste their life sealing that being after it's annihilated.

(Now sure, you can argue the characters are dumb, but that's an excuse, the point is that the story should have been written in such a way that the dumb characters' actions form part of events that make sense without such a clear, easier alternative. You wanna say "go get them [X dumb character]," without the understanding that this isn't the best course of action, imagine that story that does that vs a story that doesn't do that.)

I think they want to revive Meteonelfilis good like with Void, but, not really, they just want to seal it. So why was it they were talking about reviving him good? Am I missing something? Was it a misdirection so that we wouldn't think about destroying him prematurely?

Bc of this, my headcanon is that you could enter the area where the Star of Darkness was at first, and then they removed it bc they understood the issue it brings, yet didn't fix the issue. You can try to enter the place before the end of the story, which will make you see the issue, and there is an animation of you entering, but the game prevents you from being there.

And then Meteonelfilis revives anyway while fully sealed again, I have issues with this as well. It's not like the heroes did something wrong or the villain outplayed them, this is the lamer option. Imagine you collect X to prevent X on a villain, and you see the villain, you imagine something's going to go wrong but don't know what. You collect all of X, the villain just overpowers whatever you were doing and it was all for nothing... Really? That's it? Say, remember when Hyness couldn't 100% fill the Jamba Heart 'cause we stopped him in time, so he sacrificed his generals and himself to fill the little that was left? That was great, this is lame. I don't care how the Star of Darkness gets to have "Resistance to Sealing" with 2 examples present in-game.

The Star of Darkness was falling on this world already breaking away from the sealing, stood in one place doing nothing, got re-sealed again over time, and then broke free and revived, so... was it already able to break free and was only charging power to revive? I imagine it cannot move as the Star of Darkness, otherwise why stay where they're sealing you, yet it can break free of the sealing and create creatures to fight Kirby. That comes off as convenient; he can do this & that but not move, and of course it can't 'cause if it could we would see it try to escape and kill it. The villain relies on the Starries being dumb and not telling the heroes, "Hey, this guy broke free from our sealing once, let's do something to fortify it once we re-seal him again. Otherwise he might just break free again, imagine that."

Meteonelfilis is the lamest modern Kirby main antagonist, all his actions are basic within his own abilities. Everyone else is better than him, they're either way smarter or have better written reasons to be dumb or act via simple actions: Magolor, Taranza, Sectonia, Susie, Haltmann, Star Dream, Dream Kingdom Taranza, Dark Taranza, King D-Mind, the Mage-Sisters, Hyness, Void Termina, Parallel Nightmare, Galacta Knight, Fecto Elfilis, and the Master Crown. Meteonelfilis only has spectacle and his connection to Elfilis.
 
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I got the Jap. text from that stuff I said:

エクストラないぎょうのたっせい･･･
おめでとうございますっ!! = "You achieved an extraordinarily high level of success... Congratulations!!"

本当に、生きてあの空間からかえって来るなんて･･･ まさしくあなたは星のヒーローだっ! = "To think you truly returned from that dimension alive... You truly are a hero of the stars!"

すべてをすくった、しんのえいゆうに、 このほうしゅうをおわたしします!! = "To the true hero who saved everything, I humbly present this reward!!"

So it was mistranslated. Very well then, it's better that way.
 
Eficiente said:
I got the Jap. text from that stuff I said:

エクストラないぎょうのたっせい･･･
おめでとうございますっ!! = "You achieved an extraordinarily high level of success... Congratulations!!"

本当に、生きてあの空間からかえって来るなんて･･･ まさしくあなたは星のヒーローだっ! = "To think you truly returned from that dimension alive... You truly are a hero of the stars!"

すべてをすくった、しんのえいゆうに、 このほうしゅうをおわたしします!! = "To the true hero who saved everything, I humbly present this reward!!"

So it was mistranslated. Very well then, it's better that way.
Click to expand...
So... all of existence wasn't at stake?

However, it does seem chaos elfilis is fought in their own dimension?

Also "saved everything" would be enough to scale to cosmology if this was sonic scaling /j
 
Well there's a direct galactic destruction statement for... someone. Might be Galacta Knight, but it's vague enough.

This new villain is like a combo of Cooler and Elder Princess Shroob (with a hint of Deoxys) which is cool in concept but the execution is a little weird. I wonder if they always planned this or if they had to create this character recently to justify the additional content.
 
Eficiente said:
I got the Jap. text from that stuff I said:

エクストラないぎょうのたっせい･･･
おめでとうございますっ!! = "You achieved an extraordinarily high level of success... Congratulations!!"

本当に、生きてあの空間からかえって来るなんて･･･ まさしくあなたは星のヒーローだっ! = "To think you truly returned from that dimension alive... You truly are a hero of the stars!"

すべてをすくった、しんのえいゆうに、 このほうしゅうをおわたしします!! = "To the true hero who saved everything, I humbly present this reward!!"

So it was mistranslated. Very well then, it's better that way.
Click to expand...
Lowkey feels close enough to me
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
Well there's a direct galactic destruction statement for... someone. Might be Galacta Knight, but it's vague enough.
Click to expand...
かつては銀河を滅ぼしかねない 最強の敵さえも結晶化させ、封印に成功したことがあるという

It is said that in the past, they have succeeded in crystallizing and sealing away even the most powerful enemy, one that could destroy the galaxy.

I think its pretty clear it is GK. Even in the novels his whole thing was that he could destroy the galaxy.
 
Galactidot said:
However, it does seem chaos elfilis is fought in their own dimension?
Click to expand...
Well, we knew that already. I'm glad he said that though.
Galactidot said:
Also "saved everything" would be enough to scale to cosmology if this was sonic scaling /j
Click to expand...
There are many things I don't agree with that verse but won't do CRTs bc I know how it's going to go, that is one. If we know it's not enough here, I will thank you all for not giving me a hard time. I would argue things like, how do you define "universe" if everything already means the whole multiverse? What happened to the "smallest assumption being the more likely"?

Btw, in Kirby, Magolor Soul, Galacta Knight, Void Termina and even Fecto Elfilis could already destroy everything.
Foxthefox1000 said:
I wonder if they always planned this or if they had to create this character recently to justify the additional content.
Click to expand...
The latter.
  • The story makes little sense as pointed out before. This is clearly the result of reworking on a pre-existing game setting, not passion.
  • HAL is lazy at animating and many of the things present here are edited versions of things present before, and there are new things but those often times aren't too complex. Put them on a list and see it for yourself.
  • Elfilin even absorbs his other half a second time, in the same manner as with the first time, which is nonsense, and it would be like if you went to the kitchen, made yourself a sandwich, and ate them, and then another day did the same with the exact same body movements.
  • Kirby used his Power of Miracles to redeem Efilis twice yet his brother remains evil.
  • The Beast Pack does nothing in this new story aside from descriptions talking about them. Lazy.
  • Meta Knight and Dedede do nothing in this new story aside from descriptions talking about them. Meta Knight is even in the spot he's in when protecting the town when the town is no longer in danger. Super lazy.
  • The regular enemies of the Beast Pack attack you after they became friends with you across the Stages evn tho they are not mind-controlled.
  • Elfilin, as well as Clawraline, Meta Knight and Dedede, should have been playable via player 2. I saw an official manga where he helped the cast with his portals by making them skip a whole Level and going right into the main enemy, and in a short battle royale between main characters, Elfilin at least put an angry face and redirected away an energy laser shot at him, pretty cool if you ask me. The guy should be no mere commentator, nothing less than a player is underwhelming now that he "became one" after years of being fractured.
No way in hell this was planned out. The lore elements? Some of them sure.

Lastly, next to what we got, I say it would have been far better if the evil heart had been this universe's Void. Hopefully it's clear that I don't say that just bc I wanted that to be the case.
 
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@Eficiente Hehehe I'm the Kirby Loredumper. Lemme clear some things up!
Eficiente said:
  • The story makes little sense as pointed out before. This is clearly the result of reworking on a pre-existing game setting, not passion.
Click to expand...
Absolutely expanding a story, but I can see passion. It actually does explain some things, but mostly relating to Magolor, Neichel, and The Ancients of all characters.
Eficiente said:
  • HAL is lazy at animating and many of the things present here are edited versions of things present before, and there are new things but those often times aren't too complex. Put them on a list and see it for yourself.
Click to expand...
Whenever Elfilin is onscreen, they will re-use his cutscenes - Ode to HAL Laboratory
Eficiente said:
  • Elfilin even absorbs his other half a second time, in the same manner as with the first time, which is nonsense, and it would be like if you went to the kitchen, made yourself a sandwich, and ate them, and then another day did the same with the exact same body movements.
Click to expand...
I cannot explain Elfilin here, my man's on his own. Albeit, it's possible Elfilis just doesn't give up and had to be subdued a second time. (Or this can be a retcon)
Eficiente said:
Click to expand...
Elfilis? They didn't remain evil, and neither did Meteo. Meteo was stated to have been sealed away, and Elfilin muses about him returning in another time and being a "Dream Friend".
Eficiente said:
The Beast Pack does nothing in this new story aside from descriptions talking about them. Lazy.
Click to expand...
Inexcusable animals, fr tho, the DLC can be played before completing the main story, so omitting them was likely to prioritize consistency and avoid contradictions, even if it meant not using characters.
Eficiente said:
  • Meta Knight and Dedede do nothing in this new story aside from descriptions talking about them. Meta Knight is even in the spot he's in when protecting the town when the town is no longer in danger. Super lazy.
Click to expand...
Similar reason for the above, but new dialogue would've been fire in both of these circumstances if you've beaten the game.
Eficiente said:
  • The regular enemies of the Beast Pack attack you after they became friends with you across the Stages evn tho they are not mind-controlled.
Click to expand...
Same reason for above, these fellas ain't the Mantis Tribe.
Eficiente said:
  • Elfilin, as well as Clawraline, Meta Knight and Dedede, should have been playable via player 2. I saw an official manga where he helped the cast with his portals by making them skip a whole Level and going right into the main enemy, and in a short battle royale between main characters, Elfilin at least put an angry face and redirected away an energy laser shot at him, pretty cool if you ask me. The guy should be no mere commentator, nothing less than a player is underwhelming now that he "became one" after years of being fractured.
Click to expand...
That would've ruled, but that's sort of wishful thinking. To boot, while the manga is official, it's not exactly canon (though it can present canon ideas)
This one does hit like a dream game concept ngl
Eficiente said:
Lastly, next to what we got, I say it would have been far better if the evil heart had been this universe's Void. Hopefully it's clear that I don't say that just bc I wanted that to be the case.
Click to expand...
Bold of you to assume Meteo is not this universe's Void. Will take some time before I'm certain, but don't write it off just yet. In fact, I'd say it's more likely than not.
 
Eficiente said:
And after my own revisions I'm planning for the future, it will become even higher into 2-C and possibly 2-A.
Click to expand...
Eficiente said:
Btw, in Kirby, Magolor Soul, Galacta Knight, Void Termina and even Fecto Elfilis could already destroy everything.
Click to expand...
iu
 
Galactidot said:
Absolutely expanding a story, but I can see passion. It actually does explain some things, but mostly relating to Magolor, Neichel, and The Ancients of all characters.
Click to expand...
The good doesn't remove the bad, and the bad is quite notable here. Take it as more so hyperbolic the thing about it having no passion though.
Galactidot said:
I cannot explain Elfilin here, my man's on his own. Albeit, it's possible Elfilis just doesn't give up and had to be subdued a second time. (Or this can be a retcon)
Click to expand...
It's not retconned, bc saying so would based on feelings rather than info going against itself. Chaos Elfilis' upgrate makes sense from 2 angles; the Starries' retroactive / mysterious powers, Elfilis' implied relationship with the Power of Miracles. Heck maybe his brother has the same and he used it to make Elfilis have this.

Yeah the scene repeats itself, and that sucks, but that's an L we have to take.
Galactidot said:
Elfilis? They didn't remain evil, and neither did Meteo. Meteo was stated to have been sealed away, and Elfilin muses about him returning in another time and being a "Dream Friend".
Click to expand...
That's what I said. "Redeem Efilis"="They didn't remain evil." Meteo remains evil unless the unknown conditions to not make him evil can be met, which means we failed in that regard. We have the means to turn him good outside of those unknown conditions, we have the means to not make it someone else's problem. It's not going too deep into things; game states Kirby can punch Elfilis into good, then I want that option accounted for when his evil brother leaves the world still capable of evil.
Galactidot said:
Inexcusable animals, fr tho, the DLC can be played before completing the main story, so omitting them was likely to prioritize consistency and avoid contradictions, even if it meant not using characters.

Similar reason for the above, but new dialogue would've been fire in both of these circumstances if you've beaten the game.
Click to expand...
Ok but that's just not enough. It's added context in which the world is in danger, it's reasonable wanting to see more of the big players already present in the setting. You can make reasons as to why it makes sense for them to not play a role but no one made them built the story that way. I would just move my complain at the writing rather than the logic in-universe. And players can still play the DLC after the main story, which causes the same issues as before.
Galactidot said:
Same reason for above, these fellas ain't the Mantis Tribe.
Click to expand...
As before, players can still play the DLC after the main story. It moves this from "it always doesn't make sense" to "it sometimes doesn't make sense."
Galactidot said:
That would've ruled, but that's sort of wishful thinking. To boot, while the manga is official, it's not exactly canon (though it can present canon ideas)
This one does hit like a dream game concept ngl
Click to expand...
I will change that as, they should have had an active role, with Elfilin's being higher than moral support. Just that. Not necessarily as playable characters.

Yes, that manga is its own canon.
Galactidot said:
Bold of you to assume Meteo is not this universe's Void. Will take some time before I'm certain, but don't write it off just yet. In fact, I'd say it's more likely than not.
Click to expand...
Well, there are
  • Definitive facts or things around 99% likely.
  • Likely facts that are less likely.
  • Probable facts that are less likely.
  • False facts.
  • And speculative facts.
Meteo being this universe's Void is the latter, it's not bold to assume he is not. It's just cool to assume he is.

Also how can he be Void and have a brother when Void is the original ancenstor from which all other life forms descend? I ask that like you couldn't just say "See, we need to assume he has a "brother" in a made up non-traditional sense. He just calls Elfilis "brother" but we need to 100% assume they don't actually have a shared originator" But that would just be wanting him to be Void so badly one alters information to make the idea fit.
 
Good thing not every similarly named concept and idea necessarily refer to the same, otherwise the Starries (Children of the stars) would be worshippers of Void Termina. Or maybe Hyness's prayer there refers to Void in general, but he wants it part of the evil goal he has he wants Void Termina to carry out, and why would such simple-minded creatures buy into that crazy cult anyway.

Goes to show to not take anything too seriously until confirmed.
 
Eficiente said:
Good thing not every similarly named concept and idea necessarily refer to the same, otherwise the Starries (Children of the stars) would be worshippers of Void Termina. Or maybe Hyness's prayer there refers to Void in general, but he wants it part of the evil goal he has he wants Void Termina to carry out, and why would such simple-minded creatures buy into that crazy cult anyway.

Goes to show to not take anything too seriously until confirmed.
Click to expand...
Disagree with that take. You missed the second part.
Prayers of the children of the stars can easily refer to them praying for salvation and considering it is followed by "preform with the sound of screams" seems to mock them, as in - your prayers are pointless, you can pray with your screams instead. I ain't fully sure about it but I don't think we can dismiss it. Additionally children of the stars seems way too close, gonna have to check the kanji and such.
 
taking from here (credit to baro on discord)

ふだんは宇宙を飛んで無邪気に遊ぶ、星の子ともよばれる、ジェムから生まれた精霊だ。

The VT thing uses 星の子 as well

In short, I think it is clearly the same thing. Perhaps there's something that is misunderstood, I suggest my opinion above - the prayer mocks the hopeless prayers of the starries and implies they should instead preform for VT with the sound of their screams.

They COULD be used for evil maybe? I mean we know that the magic side of the Ancients sealed away a galactic threat, which most believe is Galacta Knight cause basically any mention of galaxy-wide destruction or events have something to do with him. GK was blatantly sealed away using starries. This means that the magicians of the jamba cult or whomever they were before became fully corrupted, used starries as part of their magic.
 
Eficiente said:
Good thing not every similarly named concept and idea necessarily refer to the same, otherwise the Starries (Children of the stars) would be worshippers of Void Termina. Or maybe Hyness's prayer there refers to Void in general, but he wants it part of the evil goal he has he wants Void Termina to carry out, and why would such simple-minded creatures buy into that crazy cult anyway.

Goes to show to not take anything too seriously until confirmed.
Click to expand...
In the Japanese version of "TWINKLING STAR SHOWERS", the Starries are referred to as "unwanted children".

Power of Miracles also didn't properly work on Void, neither did the friend hearts. Time out is the only option for these guys.
 
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