Why the Source ≠ Overvoid

[Antvasima]

I have unlocked them.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I have unlocked them.

Thanks!

 

[Antvasima]

No problem.

 

[Antvasima]

@Elizio33

Tell us here when you are done please.

 

[Antvasima]

@Elizio33

Were all of these significant changes by @Re5yh that I undid fully acceptable or not?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/The_Presence?diff=9229958&oldid=9229778

 

[Antvasima]

Or did they break our rules by making them?

 

[Re5yh]

@Elizio33

Were all of these significant changes by @Re5yh that I undid fully acceptable or not?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/The_Presence?diff=9229958&oldid=9229778

I was just trying to update the profile, but after seeing this, I think I was sorry for doing this

 

[Elizio33]

I was just trying to update the profile, but after seeing this, I think I was sorry for doing this

Don't worry, it's okay, but next time you should create a Crt before adding stuffs on the profiles. @Antvasima I will add the new information in the selected profiles, I will tell you when I am finished.

 

[Elizio33]

I just finished updating the Overvoid, Source, and Presence profiles and I'm thinking about it, should we merge The Overvoid profiles with The Void (Vertigo) since they both symbolically represent the same exact thing?

I mean, "Overvoid" is just a name used by Grant Morrison to describe the Void outside Creation, and his idea about the Overvoid is pretty consistent with earlier interpretations of The Sandman and Lucifer suggesting that the Void is the true nature of God. Even Morrison's earlier stories suggested that the Void is the absolute consciousness and his Green Lantern series reffered to the Overvoid as a sublime non-dual omni-awareness. Additionally, Scott Snyder's depiction of the Overvoid aligns with Mike Carey’s depiction of the Void from which entire Creations rise and fall, mirroring what was depicted in Death Metal about the Hands creating and judging Multiverses in the Void or the Chronicler recording dying Multiverses traveling in the Overvoid.

 

[Firestorm808]

I just finished updating the Overvoid, Source, and Presence profiles and I'm thinking about it, should we merge The Overvoid profiles with The Void (Vertigo) since they both symbolically represent the same exact thing?

I mean, "Overvoid" is just a name used by Grant Morrison to describe the Void outside Creation, and his idea about the Overvoid is pretty consistent with earlier interpretations of The Sandman and Lucifer suggesting that the Void is the true nature of God. Even Morrison's earlier stories suggested that the Void is the absolute consciousness and his Green Lantern series reffered to the Overvoid as a sublime non-dual omni-awareness. Additionally, Scott Snyder's depiction of the Overvoid aligns with Mike Carey’s depiction of the Void from which entire Creations rise and fall, mirroring what was depicted in Death Metal about the Hands creating and judging Multiverses in the Void or the Chronicler recording dying Multiverses traveling in the Overvoid.

In the explanations you added, "the Overvoid is the true form of God," do you mean that the Overvoid is another name for the Divine Presence?

 

[Elizio33]

In the explanations you added, "the Overvoid is the true form of God," do you mean that the Overvoid is another name for the Divine Presence?

It is very likely, as multiple sources have directly tied the Void to God, both in Vertigo and DC’s mainstream continuity. This includes J.M. DeMatteis, who identified his “Divine Presence” as the “Void Beyond All Voids”, an infinite nothingness that contains and transcends everything and everyone, the cosmic emptiness beyond space, time, form, and thought, existing beyond the threshold of conscious limitation. In Sandman: Overture #4, the Monks of Klaa believe that the universe is a distraction within the mind of God, drifting through the Void. In Lucifer #75, Yahweh uses the tale of the Monkey King and Buddha to illustrate to Lucifer that no matter how far he tries to escape his Father’s grasp by entering the Void, he will always remain part of it. In Doom Patrol #41, God is associated with a state of pure consciousness that transcends individuality and duality, achieving complete union with itself. This description aligns with what Grant Morrison later developed through the concept of the Overvoid, which he described as pure consciousness or a non-dual, all-encompassing awareness.

 

[Firestorm808]

It is very likely, as multiple sources have directly tied the Void to God, both in Vertigo and DC’s mainstream continuity. This includes J.M. DeMatteis, who identified his “Divine Presence” as the “Void Beyond All Voids”, an infinite nothingness that contains and transcends everything and everyone, the cosmic emptiness beyond space, time, form, and thought, existing beyond the threshold of conscious limitation. In Sandman: Overture #4, the Monks of Klaa believe that the universe is a distraction within the mind of God, drifting through the Void. In Lucifer #75, Yahweh uses the tale of the Monkey King and Buddha to illustrate to Lucifer that no matter how far he tries to escape his Father’s grasp by entering the Void, he will always remain part of it. In Doom Patrol #41, God is associated with a state of pure consciousness that transcends individuality and duality, achieving complete union with itself. This description aligns with what Grant Morrison later developed through the concept of the Overvoid, which he described as pure consciousness or a non-dual, all-encompassing awareness.

How would you recommend revising the Keys of the Overvoid profile?

 

[Elizio33]

How would you recommend revising the Keys of the Overvoid profile?

The Overvoid doesn't have multiple Keys on its profiles?

 

[Firestorm808]

The Overvoid doesn't have multiple Keys on its profiles?

Shouldn't it based on what you said about the different portrayals?

 

[Elizio33]

Shouldn't it based on what you said about the different portrayals?

I personally don't think the Overvoid really needs multiple keys.

The reason is that the different portrayals, like DeMatteis's "Divine Presence" and the "Void beyond all Voids," Gaiman’s "God" and the "Void outside Creation," and Morrison's "Overvoid" and the "Unknowable," aren't separate forms. They're all interpretations of the absolute, filtered through different creative lenses. Each writer used their own terminology or school of thought to explore the same idea: a non-dual, immutable consciousness that underlies everything and is the very source of creation, whether it’s called God, the Divine Presence, the Void, or the Overvoid. Each interpretation is consistent with the other and, for the most part, all describe a God who is one with the Void.

 

[Firestorm808]

I personally don't think the Overvoid really needs multiple keys.

The reason is that the different portrayals, like DeMatteis's "Divine Presence" and the "Void beyond all Voids," Gaiman’s "God" and the "Void outside Creation," and Morrison's "Overvoid" and the "Unknowable," aren't separate forms. They're all interpretations of the absolute, filtered through different creative lenses. Each writer used their own terminology or school of thought to explore the same idea: a non-dual, immutable consciousness that underlies everything and is the very source of creation, whether it’s called God, the Divine Presence, the Void, or the Overvoid. Each interpretation is consistent with the other and, for the most part, all describe a God who is one with the Void.

I see. So, is the Overvoid still High 1-A or the same rating as the other True Faces of God?

Also, it's description still says this:

"The Overvoid, also known as "The Monitor-Mind The Overvoid", and "The Light of Creation" and "The Light", is the timeless, conscious void beyond the Multiverse and the Source Wall, serving as the canvas of Creation where all Multiverses within the Greater Omniverse grew and died. Once an immaculate perfection whiteness without flaws, the Overvoid became an integral part of the first narrative through its interactions with the Great Darkness."

 

[Elizio33]

The tier would be handled elsewhere, but it should have the same tier as the other faces of God. I'll change the description.

 

[Blaze167]

I just finished updating the Overvoid, Source, and Presence profiles and I'm thinking about it, should we merge The Overvoid profiles with The Void (Vertigo) since they both symbolically represent the same exact thing?

I mean, "Overvoid" is just a name used by Grant Morrison to describe the Void outside Creation, and his idea about the Overvoid is pretty consistent with earlier interpretations of The Sandman and Lucifer suggesting that the Void is the true nature of God. Even Morrison's earlier stories suggested that the Void is the absolute consciousness and his Green Lantern series reffered to the Overvoid as a sublime non-dual omni-awareness. Additionally, Scott Snyder's depiction of the Overvoid aligns with Mike Carey’s depiction of the Void from which entire Creations rise and fall, mirroring what was depicted in Death Metal about the Hands creating and judging Multiverses in the Void or the Chronicler recording dying Multiverses traveling in the Overvoid.

I am confused, if the Overvoid is the true form of god, shouldn't it have a higher tier? Or does the Divine Presence cover this as well?

 

[Firestorm808]

The tier would be handled elsewhere, but it should have the same tier as the other faces of God. I'll change the description.

Shall we conclude this thread, then?

 

[Elizio33]

I am confused, if the Overvoid is the true form of god, shouldn't it have a higher tier? Or does the Divine Presence cover this as well?

Yes, but the tiers would he handled in another thread.

 

[Elizio33]

Shall we conclude this thread, then?

Yes, this thread is done. Many thanks to everyone who contributed!