Bionicle General Discussion Thread

[Lonkitt]

Questions.

Do you think the Mata Nui Robot should be considered straight 4-C? Teridax claimed multiple times that he could destroy entire universes, and WoG clarified that he could achieve this over time by systematically destroying planets and suns. Moreover, the planets within the Solis Magna system appear to be much larger than Earth, as Mata Nui is shown visiting several of them during his journey.

Yeah, I honestly think straight up 4-C wouldn't be controversial based on what you covered. It makes sense for him to just be 4-C

Should each Legendary Kanohi be rated as High 5-A, since the Prototype Mata Nui Robot used the power of the Ignika to restore Spherus Magna to its original state after the three planetary fragments were reunited, and because all Legendary Kanohi are considered to scale to one another?

If all Legendary Kanohi scale to each other, that would make sense

Should all Makuta be rated as 6-C, since they are at least equal to or stronger than beings such as Axonn and Brutaka, and because the Makuta of Karda Nui were holding back against the Toa Nuva, who, according to Onua, could have killed them if they had fought with actual killing attempts?

It might vary, given some Makuta are stronger than others, but I suppose that all Makuta would start at 6-C for that reasoning

That being said...can you send me the scan on the Makuta holding back in Karda Nui? I think that makes sense for Krika, but I don't think that makes sense for someone like Gorast

 

[Elizio33]

The Makuta of Karda Nui were holding back against the Toa Nuva, as they needed them to collect the Keystones required to activate the Codrex and awaken Mata Nui, which was the ultimate goal of their leader, Teridax. None of the Makuta actually fought with genuine intent to kill, except for Icarax, who defied Teridax’s plan and attempted to destroy the Toa Nuva by using his gravity powers to crush the Codrex they were inside. In addition, these Makuta were restricted, as many were either blind or limited in their powers.

 

[Lonkitt]

The Makuta of Karda Nui were holding back against the Toa Nuva, as they needed them to collect the Keystones required to activate the Codrex and awaken Mata Nui, which was the ultimate goal of their leader, Teridax. None of the Makuta actually fought with genuine intent to kill, except for Icarax, who defied Teridax’s plan and attempted to destroy the Toa Nuva by using his gravity powers to crush the Codrex they were inside. In addition, these Makuta were restricted, as many were either blind or limited in their powers.

This makes sense

 

[Elizio33]

That being said...can you send me the scan on the Makuta holding back in Karda Nui? I think that makes sense for Krika, but I don't think that makes sense for someone like Gorast

It's from one Bionicle book. I'll try to post the scan here.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

A possible upgrade for Bionicle ?

Okay, but we still haven’t done a CRT for the Toa Mahri calcs yet, and the GSR crt is in need of CPR!

 

[Lonkitt]

Okay, but we still haven’t done a CRT for the Toa Mahri calcs yet, and the GSR crt is in need of CPR!

The Mahri thing really isn't an issue. The Class M revision could go alongside the Country level upgrade for the Tova Nuva, Toa Inika/Mahri, Piraka, etc.

 

[Elizio33]

Yeah, I honestly think straight up 4-C wouldn't be controversial based on what you covered. It makes sense for him to just be 4-C




If all Legendary Kanohi scale to each other, that would make sense



It might vary, given some Makuta are stronger than others, but I suppose that all Makuta would start at 6-C for that reasoning

That being said...can you send me the scan on the Makuta holding back in Karda Nui? I think that makes sense for Krika, but I don't think that makes sense for someone like Gorast

"Doesn't make sense," said Onua,
summoning a wall of earth to block a
Makuta lightning bolt. 'The Brotherhood was here for days before we were, and they knew about the keystones. If they wanted in, they could have gotten in before we arrived. No, they have something else in mind, and I can prove it."

"How?"` asked Lewa.

Onua pointed to the six Makuta in the
air, each possessed with incredible
power far outclassing any Toa.

"Simple, we're not dead yet."

 

[Elizio33]

Many Bionicle characters would need a big revision.

 

[Lonkitt]

Perfect. Btw, I still couldn't find the statement about Kopaka stating he could freeze Karda Nui. Could you locate that please?

Many Bionicle characters would need a big revision.

Yeah. If the Country level and Class M feats get the thumbs up, we'll need to make a list of how many characters get affected

 

[Elizio33]

Perfect. Btw, I still couldn't find the statement about Kopaka stating he could freeze Karda Nui. Could you locate that please?



Yeah. If the Country level and Class M feats get the thumbs up, we'll need to make a list of how many characters get affected

I will try to find the scan.

I hope so, and Jaller's Nova Blast feat still needs to be calculated.

 

[Elizio33]

So, every Makuta should be rated 6-C. Their power levels are generally relative, with differences mainly in experience and knowledge of how to use their abilities, for example, Teridax is the most experienced Makuta, while Icarax is the most skilled fighter. Chirox can control his Shadow Hand while the other Makuta cannot.

 

[Lonkitt]

I hope so, and Jaller's Nova Blast feat still needs to be calculated.

I knew the others said it would've destroyed Metru Nui, but I doubt the blast would've stopped there

ATM, I know the Country level calc would affect the following:

• Toa Nuva
• Toa Inika/Toa Mahri
• Piraka
• Rahkshi
• Bohrok-Kal
• Multiple Makuta

I'm definitely forgetting some others

So, every Makuta should be rated 6-C. Their power levels are generally relative, with differences mainly in experience and knowledge of how to use their abilities, for example, Teridax is the most experienced Makuta, while Icarax is the most skilled fighter.

If the 6-B feat gets the thumbs up, then I'd assume several Makuta would get bumped to that level as well, likely upscaling it to different degrees depending on the members

 

[Elizio33]

I knew the others said it would've destroyed Metru Nui, but I doubt the blast would've stopped there

ATM, I know the Country level calc would affect the following:

• Toa Nuva
• Toa Inika/Toa Mahri
• Piraka
• Rahkshi
• Bohrok-Kal
• Multiple Makuta

I'm definitely forgetting some others



If the 6-B feat gets the thumbs up, then I'd assume several Makuta would get bumped to that level as well, likely upscaling it to different degrees depending on the members

Yes, and every Makuta should be ranked the same way as they are all relative in terms of raw power level.

 

[Elizio33]

Members of the Order of Mata Nui, particularly Axonn and Brutaka, are capable of giving a Brotherhood of Makuta member a serious fight.

 

[Lonkitt]

Members of the Order of Mata Nui, particularly Axonn and Brutaka, are capable of giving a Brotherhood of Makuta member a serious fight.

Axonn was also much stronger than Thok and Reidak (with the Piraka having just outright been able to fight and take down the Toa Nuva). I'd say it makes sense for Axonn and Brutaka to scale closer to Makuta tiers

 

[Elizio33]

Axonn was also much stronger than Thok and Reidak (with the Piraka having just outright been able to fight and take down the Toa Nuva). I'd say it makes sense for Axonn and Brutaka to scale closer to Makuta tiers

Yeah, Greg said they were closer to a Makuta in terms of power level, but a Makuta would still be more powerful.

 

[Elizio33]

It was possible to lose control of the Mask of Creation. Greg Farshtey compared this situation to the plot of the movie Forbidden Planet, in which one's dangerous subconscious thoughts are made real.

Limited Subjective Reality?

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

The Mahri thing really isn't an issue. The Class M revision could go alongside the Country level upgrade for the Tova Nuva, Toa Inika/Mahri, Piraka, etc.

We still need to complete the GSR crt because the acceleration value for the Class M calc relies on the Aqua Magna's size, and the current calc for the GSR is outdated and poorly done: https://vsbattles.com/threads/resizing-retiering-the-gsr.175098/

 

[Neutralino]

I will try to find the scan.

I hope so, and Jaller's Nova Blast feat still needs to be calculated.

I calced it here a few years ago.

Jaller vaporizes hundreds of miles of water with a nova blast

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Elizio33]

I calced it here a few years ago.

Jaller vaporizes hundreds of miles of water with a nova blast

vsbattles.fandom.com

Oh, okay, great. The calculations were accepted?

 

[Neutralino]

Oh, okay, great. The calculations were accepted?

It's currently in limbo.

Bionicle CRT: High 6-A from Jaller's Nova Blast

I've calculated a statement regarding Jaller's Nova Blast here. Basically, he can unleash a blast that vaporizes hundreds of miles of water, which is 10.74 petatons/High 6-A at minimum. Most, if not all characters that already upscale from Gali's much weaker Nova Blast should scale from this...

vsbattles.com

 

[Lonkitt]

Inika Hahli breaks out of a giant stone hand trying to restrain her (LS feat)

This is another good LS feat worth calculating IMO

 

[Elizio33]

It's currently in limbo.

Bionicle CRT: High 6-A from Jaller's Nova Blast

I've calculated a statement regarding Jaller's Nova Blast here. Basically, he can unleash a blast that vaporizes hundreds of miles of water, which is 10.74 petatons/High 6-A at minimum. Most, if not all characters that already upscale from Gali's much weaker Nova Blast should scale from this...

vsbattles.com

Okay, someone needs to start a new CRT.

 

[Elizio33]

We still need to complete the GSR crt because the acceleration value for the Class M calc relies on the Aqua Magna's size, and the current calc for the GSR is outdated and poorly done: https://vsbattles.com/threads/resizing-retiering-the-gsr.175098/

Why resize the Great Spirit Robot when its official size was explicitly stated in the story?

 

[Elizio33]

Perfect. Btw, I still couldn't find the statement about Kopaka stating he could freeze Karda Nui. Could you locate that please?

 

[Lonkitt]

Perfect. Thank you

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Why resize the Great Spirit Robot when its official size was explicitly stated in the story?

You read the original OP right? The thread was never concluded either. Also the current calc is outdated, this is the calc that uses the better method: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Hagane_no_Saiyajin/Great_Spirit_Robot_and_Spherus_Magna_"Canon"_size

Edit: Also, doesn't basic geometry overrule written statements about the GSR's size?

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Nuva Cube Disperses Cloud

character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com

I did do a calc of it on a different site, I'll see about copying it over and hopefully getting it approved. Even if only the lower end gets accepted I think it would be a good replacement or supporting calc for the current calc the nuva scale to, since that uses pixel scaling on a map that is confirmed to be not to scale.

The only problem with this calc is that it uses the smaller island size that would essentially make the island of Mata Nui only cover the nose

 

[Tankirbmon]

The only problem with this calc is that it uses the smaller island size that would essentially make the island of Mata Nui only cover the nose

Honestly I'd say that's more of an issue on the Greg's GSR's stated size vs Faber's

But yeah the inconsistency in the canon size of the island of mata nui & the GSR is a problem, I'm of the opinion we should go with Faber's GSR size but that'd lead to downgrades which I'm sure isn't popular

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I'm of the opinion we should go with Faber's GSR size but that'd lead to downgrades which I'm sure isn't popular

I’d rather we downgrade an be consistent with than not change anything and be inconsistent

 

[Lonkitt]

Honestly I'd say that's more of an issue on the Greg's GSR's stated size vs Faber's

But yeah the inconsistency in the canon size of the island of mata nui & the GSR is a problem, I'm of the opinion we should go with Faber's GSR size but that'd lead to downgrades which I'm sure isn't popular

We’re more than likely upgrading Mata Nui to straight up solid 4-C anyways, so keep that in mind

 

[Elizio33]

And the Toa would possibly be upgraded to 6-B based on the Nuva Cube and Jailer's Nova Blast. If the calculations are accepted of course.

 

[Tankirbmon]

Nuva Symbol Disperses Cloud

vsbattles.fandom.com

The Dispersal KE & Vaporization ends of the calc have been evaluated and accepted.

Unfortunately I made a mistake with my earlier calc accidentally increasing the result by 1000,

The calc is now High 6-C (large island level) for the KE & 7-B (City level+) for the vaporization end

Not as much of an upgrade as I expected but still a good upgrade

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Nuva Symbol Disperses Cloud

vsbattles.fandom.com

The Dispersal KE & Vaporization ends of the calc have been evaluated and accepted.

Unfortunately I made a mistake with my earlier calc accidentally increasing the result by 1000,

The calc is now High 6-C (large island level) for the KE & 7-B (City level+) for the vaporization end

Not as much of an upgrade as I expected but still a good upgrade

At least this can make for a good supporting feat: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Hagane_no_Saiyajin/Destruction_of_the_Cord

 

[Lonkitt]

The calc is now High 6-C (large island level) for the KE & 7-B (City level+) for the vaporization end

Not as much of an upgrade as I expected but still a good upgrade

If we use the High 6-C end, then it's quite the significant upgrade IMO

 

[Neutralino]

At least this can make for a good supporting feat: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Hagane_no_Saiyajin/Destruction_of_the_Cord

I'm not sure how breaking a tunnel apart at a specific area is tier 6. It's not like they destroyed the entire cord. Just a small section of it.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I'm not sure how breaking a tunnel apart at a specific area is tier 6. It's not like they destroyed the entire cord. Just a small section of it.

The video did show the cord being melted though

 

[Tankirbmon]

The video did show the cord being melted though

It kinda just looks like the coord is just filled with lava for some reason rather than them melting it. (And the game takes quite a while to accomplish this)

And the book describes it as tearing it in 2 rather than a complete shattering or melting of it.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

It kinda just looks like the coord is just filled with lava for some reason rather than them melting it. (And the game takes quite a while to accomplish this)

And the book describes it as tearing it in 2 rather than a complete shattering or melting of it.

This was what @DMUA said about it:

It does seem more like melting than anything else, though it's a little iffy. The actual text says it split in two, but the animation shows it falling into several pieces (after many missile barrages rather than 6 guys shooting at once)

At the very least it should be divided by 6 among the contributors

 

[Neutralino]

There's really no evidence that suggests the toa destroyed the entire cord by firing at a specific section of it. Their cordak blasters don't have the DC for that, and this calc ultimately relies on DC.