Ninjago Star Tiering and Possible New Value

[Lloydblitzed]

Created after what was discussed here

Spoiler: Quick things to know

Quick things to know for understanding the scaling:
Elemental Powers are a UES, which the Golden Weapons and Wu also scale to

Spoiler: Golden Weapons Feat

Golden Weapons Feat
The Golden Weapon in S2 destroyed the Mega Weapon and formed a Star (which is further shown here), only changing shape when landing in a comet. The Golden Master needed the GWs for his evil plans to become the GM (A being that surpass everyone in the verse besides the Source Dragons), so it wouldn't be quite logical to say it was destroyed. We also have on screen proof it retained its power as it vaporized the Nindroids out of existence, which the GWs could previously do as well (The GWs kills anyone too weak to handle their power).

Here is a blog going further into details against counter arguments (which I think should be added to the main verse page too)

Reasons characters would upscales to the main cast:
The Ninjas can tank a blow from it, and that would upscale to the cast being able to harm them
Lloyd possess its power, and that would upscale to the cast scaling reletive to him
Garmadon is strong enough to wield their power without being killed, like what happened to weaker beings here, here and here, and the cast would scale to Garmadon by clashing with him on many occassions

Spoiler: Wu's Pocket Dimension Feat

So there's the infamous Star GW feat that would scale the cast to Star lvl, but there's also another feat
Wu's Pocket Reality feat
Previously, that rating was added on Wu's profile due to his Reality Warping Dimensions feat being accepted here, but I want it to get it accepted as an AP feat just to be sure

Created an entire reality warped dimension with its own Sun

Reasons why this was considered a Reality Warping feat:

• Here, he clearly shows that he designed those missions, implying these locations didn't already exist
• His dimension is only accessible throught portals, inciting its not an illusion

This would by default be a 4-C Feat
This would further support the Star level rating and make it consistant (A reminder this would scale to his AP due to having a UES as explained earlier), and would upscale the cast higher into 4-C

Spoiler: Main Arguments/Counter Arguments Summary

Main Arguments and Counter Arguments Summary:

Counter Arguments:

I will link to my main counter-arguments throughout the thread here for convenience.
Outlier argument, response, another response, more responses, anti-feats to support it being an outlier, scaling contradiction, anti-feats matter because star level is much higher than any other feat that the base ninja could scale to.

To get a better idea you could also start reading from the first post i linked here because there are many more responses.

And this response, as well as this

Arguments:
Tier 4 tiering is supported by other Stellar feats done by other mid tiers in the verse, such as:

Gahrann the Dream created, rules and have full control over a Dream Dimension with Stars and Planets

Nadakhan recreated his own version of Ninjago City, which is implied to be illuminated by the Sun just like the real Ninjago
(He already has pocket reality manip accepted on his profile for that too)
Mindaro, a talented magician, is capable of creating dimensions with their own Sun by making his paintings come to life

• His dimensions are only accessible throught magical portal or BFR, proving it isn't just an illusion
• Mindaro is also capable of physically channeling his own magic
• Mindaro also created a monster called the Chroma, who is as powerful as he is

Peri, another magician, can also paint dimensions with its own Sun, just like her father Mindaro, who are only accessible throught magical portals as well, proving they aren't illusions
Mindaro also made a dimension with a starry sky with his magical painting skills


Garmadon and Wu scale to this over their feat of harming Chroma, who is as powerful as Mindaro, who created entire dimensions with their own Sun
Why Magic Users like Nadakhan, Mindaro, Periwrinkle and Arrakore upscales from a UES:

All explained here and in more details here

Here are also other responses from counter Argument:

This
Response to the Anti Feats
Response to a Staff counter arguments
Responses to sum Garmadon counter arguments here and here
Other issues are answered in the blog previously linked in the OP
Important response to the GWs blowing up
Very important response to the counter arguments and the Tier 7 calcs reliability
Another important response about UES debunk
Important reply about Tier 7 AP feats reliability

Agree: @TheOrangeGuy09 @DarkDragonMedeus (Agrees with the GW feat being Star lvl. Agree with Wu's Dimension feat) @REX9097 @Ben_10_Stick_Nodes @Spectral69420 @OrangeFR @Aolphl @Planck69 (Agrees with Wu's dimension feat scaling. Agree with GWs 4-C feat, but doesn't think it scales to the cast via the explosion feat. Agree with Mindaro's feat being used) @Theglassman12 (Agree with Dimension feat and the GWs feat but not on the Mindaro argument), @MasqueTLDF, @henryzx900ruly, @GarrixianXD (Agrees with 4-C Wu's Dimension feat and Low 4-C GWs scaling)
Disagree: @YmTheSuper @LephyrTheRevanchist
Neutral: @DavidTPPM (Didn't say he disagrees nor agrees). @ActuallySpaceMan42 (Agree with Wu's Pocket Dimension feat being 4-C and basically him scaling to the UES. Neutral on GWs feat) @Demon_Lord18

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

2-C scaling should also be included in the thread, as it's acceptance got in contention.

Relevant staff: @Agnaa @Qawsedf234 @DarkDragonMedeus @Crabwhale @FinePoint

 

[Lloydblitzed]

2-C scaling should also be included in the thread, as it's acceptance got in contention.

Relevant staff: @Agnaa @Qawsedf234 @DarkDragonMedeus @Crabwhale @FinePoint

Me and other knowledgable members are planning on downgrading the feat, so idk if it should be included as well here or in a seperate thread

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Me and other knowledgable members are planning on downgrading the feat, so idk if it should be included as well here or in a seperate thread

I don't mind if we focus just on the 4-C feat, but since the topic was in contention as well, felt the need to mention it.

Still, I'll leave that decision to my fellow staff members if they want to discuss it here too. I will give my own thoughts later.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I don't mind if we focus just on the 4-C feat, but since the topic was in contention as well, felt the need to mention it.

Alright sure

Still, I'll leave that decision to my fellow staff members if they want to discuss it here too. I will give my own thoughts later.

noted

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I agree

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I agree

Counted

 

[DavidTPPM]

So here's a quick question. Having UES doesn't automatically mean any creation feat scales to AP. A very obvious example would be Naruto who had UES for quite a while without their star creation feats ever scaling to their stats.

So the question here is, why exactly would creation scale to stats here?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

So here's a quick question. Having UES doesn't automatically mean any creation feat scales to AP. A very obvious example would be Naruto who had UES for quite a while without their star creation feats ever scaling to their stats.

Naruto's case doesn't really work bc they don't qualify for UES

So the question here is, why exactly would creation scale to stats here?

They can physically channel their Elemental Powers. The very same power is used to create those Dimensions

 

[DavidTPPM]

Naruto's case doesn't really work bc they don't qualify for UES

Read what I said again. Naruto HAD UES for a long time and even then they didn't have tier 4 ratings.
Hell few days ago UchihaSlayer even said UES ≠ every feat scales to stats.

They can physically channel their Elemental Powers. The very same power is used to create those Dimensions

Do they channel the same amount of those "elemental power" as the star creation feats? Or rather is there any evidence they can and do so?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Do they channel the same amount of those "elemental power" as the star creation feats? Or rather is there any evidence they can and do so?

That's one example of their EP scaling to them physically at the same potency

This was shown when Lloyd transformed into his Ultimate Spinjitzu and easly defeated Overlord, something he couldn't do in base form

And

In order to qualify for a Universal Energy System and do scaling according to it, a character or the system they are using needs to fulfill all criteria for a Non-physical Energy System. Additionally, they have to demonstrate that they can channel their power through their own bodies in a way that quantifiably enhances them or otherwise allows scaling of their supernatural powers through their physicals

And

Elemental Masters powers and their body become one, so whatever feat they have physically scale to their blast as well. Those Star Creation feats are also produced by the same elemental powers, and Lloyd possess the GWs power who is one with his body as well

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Isn't Lloyd has power of TGW, so should be Lloyd scales to TGW's power

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Isn't Lloyd has power of TGW, so should be Lloyd scales to TGW's power

Yeah, its mentionned in the OP

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Yeah, its mentionned in the OP

Oh, ok

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

So here's a quick question. Having UES doesn't automatically mean any creation feat scales to AP. A very obvious example would be Naruto who had UES for quite a while without their star creation feats ever scaling to their stats.

So the question here is, why exactly would creation scale to stats here?

Stop with whataboutism please, unless you have a reason to why it didn’t scale, not just “it didn’t scale”.

 

[DavidTPPM]

That's one example of their EP scaling to them physically at the same potency


And

And

I'm not denying they can amp their bodies with EPs. I'm asking for evidence they can amp their bodies with the same amount of energy as was produced in the star creation feat.
Why does the weapons AP scale to their creation feat and why do the ninja scale to the full power of those weapons physically? Simply having UES ≠ scaling to every creation feat

Those Star Creation feats are also produced by the same elemental powers,

Again not really answering my questionz.

and Lloyd possess the GWs power who is one with his body as well

Possessing the GWs power usually refers to him having the ability to use and control all 4 elements. It doesn't seem to imply he has their AP combined.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Stop with whataboutism please, unless you have a reason to why it didn’t scale, not just “it didn’t scale”.

This isn't whataboutism, this is me providing an example.
UES ≠ every feat scales to stats.
And as far as I'm aware noone Ninjago doesn't have a single DC feat that gets past tier 6, and nothing about those creation feats seems to be implying it's a reflection of their destructive power or AP. So I'm simply questioning the argument for them scaling as the only thing OP lists is UES

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Reasons characters would upscales to the main cast:
The Ninjas can tank a blow from it, and that would upscale to the cast being able to harm them
Lloyd possess its power, and that would upscale to the cast scaling reletive to him

They also upscale due to Kai being able to clash with Garmadon, as well as Wu and others, and Garmadon directly scales to it. Also, Cole could briefly take GWs without getting erased from existence.

Snip

They scale to GWs for reasons in blog, just check it, really. TL;DR: Cole and Garmadon can easily take MW, and you can’t touch it without getting erased from existence unless you’re strong enough for it.

 

[DavidTPPM]

you can’t touch it without getting erased from existence unless you’re strong enough for it.

What evidence is there that touching them requires the same energy as the star creation feat?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

This isn't whataboutism, this is me providing an example.
UES ≠ every feat scales to stats.

You did not provide a specific reason to why it doesn’t scale. JJK cannot use ^2.5 multiplier, so does it mean all multipliers cannot be used by default? No, because JJK was rejected due to being an insane outlier, etc.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

What evidence is there that touching them requires the same energy as the star creation feat?

Because GWs power is what created star, so in order to be as powerful as GWs, you have to scale to 4-C? Do basic 2+2, I don’t want to go over every single detail just because you want to hate on the verse without ever thinking and just questioning.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I'm not denying they can amp their bodies with EPs. I'm asking for evidence they can amp their bodies with the same amount of energy as was produced in the star creation feat.
Why does the weapons AP scale to their creation feat

Bc as I stated earlier, the Weapons AP = Their Elemental Power which is one with them physically, which leads to their AP = Weapons Durability, and EP was used to produce the Creation Feat?

and why do the ninja scale to the full power of those weapons physically? Simply having UES ≠ scaling to every creation feat

They can spar with each other after tanking the same GWs

Possessing the GWs power usually refers to him having the ability to use and control all 4 elements. It doesn't seem to imply he has their AP combined.

That power at the time referred to the power the Ninjas gained from the GWs

 

[DavidTPPM]

You did not provide a specific reason to why it doesn’t scale.

I don’t need to prove or reason why something isn't true if there isn't a reason for it to be true to begin with.
I'm not even denying the scaling I'm simply asking. You instantly started antagonizing me instead of answering which really furthers my doubt.

JJK cannot use ^2.5 multiplier, so does it mean all multipliers cannot be used by default? No, because JJK was rejected due to being an insane outlier, etc.

False equivalence.
This isn't a Naruto-specific issue this is just a general rule that UES ≠ all feats scale to stats.

Because GWs power is what created star, so in order to be as powerful as GWs, you have to scale to 4-C?

First of all, no you don't. Unless there is evidence the AP of the GWs scales to their creation feat you don't actually need to be 4-C to be as strong as them.
Second of all, where is the evidence that you need to be as strong as them to interact with them? You said strong enough not equally strong or stronger than the weapons.

Do basic 2+2, I don’t want to go over every single detail

You actually very much do. Especially if you're trying to upscale a verse without a single tier 6 feat to tier 4.

just because you want to hate on the verse without ever thinking and just questioning.

First of all, appeal to motive fallacy .
Second of all I don't hate the verse. I literally had like 200€ of Ninjago Legos when I was a kid and currently I frankly don't care about it.

You accusing me of hating the verse because I disagree that "uhh it's like energy or light or something, I dunno" is sufficient evidence that something is made out of light is just silly and unnecessarily toxic.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Bc as I stated earlier, the Weapons AP = Their Elemental Power which is one with them physically, which leads to their AP = Weapons Durability, and EP was used to produce the Creation Feat?

That scan doesn't even remotely imply weapons AP = EP or that weapons creation = weapons AP.

They can spar with each other after tanking the same GWs

The video is restricted in my country but assuming it's the video of them clashing their weapons and getting blown away, that doesn't even remotely imply they're taking the same yield of energy as the weapon were outputting during the creation feat. The clash itself doesn't even break the ground under them iirc.

That power at the time referred to the power the Ninjas gained from the GWs

What? Could you expand on that? Because I remember some scenes of the ninjas saying Lloyd has "all 4 elemental powers" specifically to in reference to him being able to use all 4 elements, not having the combined power of all 4 EWs

 

[YmTheSuper]

Following. Gonna comment later

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

So here's a quick question. Having UES doesn't automatically mean any creation feat scales to AP. A very obvious example would be Naruto who had UES for quite a while without their star creation feats ever scaling to their stats.

So the question here is, why exactly would creation scale to stats here?

Just a minor note; the primary argument against Kaguya scaling from her tier 4 feat is that there is not specified timeframe for how long it took to create the realm. And more importantly, even if it did; there is little to no proof her casual powers and abilities would downscale.

Anyway, I agree with the Mega weapon being a 4-C feat, but I should mention durability feats involving it may be dependent on inverse square law. Though how does the cross sectional area of the blast work?

 

[DavidTPPM]

Just a minor note; the primary argument against Kaguya scaling from her tier 4 feat is that there is not specified timeframe for how long it took to create the realm. And more importantly, even if it did; there is little to no proof her casual powers and abilities would downscale.

I'm not saying Kaguya should be 4-C, I've been a tier 4 Naruto hater since star Naruto became a thing.
I'm simply pointing out that just creating a star doesn't inherently grant 4-C stats even with UES. Especially when the characters involved only get around tier 7 otherwise, meaning there needs to be sufficient evidence to suggest AP ~ creation.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

What evidence is there that touching them requires the same energy as the star creation feat?

Because GWs power is what created star, so in order to be as powerful as GWs, you have to scale to 4-C? Do basic 2+2, I don’t want to go over every single detail just because you want to hate on the verse without ever thinking and just questioning.

In order to apply to a character's capacity to harm other characters, that is their usual Attack Potency, their Creation has to be connected to their other abilities. Often that is due to a common energy system

The GWs Creation is done by Elemental Powers ---> Those Elemental Powers scale to them physically ---> Their Durability and Attack Potency scale to each other

Wu creates a Pocket Reality with Elemental Power ---> That Elemental Power scale to him physically ---> His Strength, Durability and Attack Potency scale to each other

(Also note that Wu's Elemental Power is Creation, which does allow him to create things which he channels in his body)

False equivalence.
This isn't a Naruto-specific issue this is just a general rule that UES ≠ all feats scale to stat

That's not what's written on the UES page

Second of all, where is the evidence that you need to be as strong as them to interact with them? You said strong enough not equally strong or stronger than the weapons.

Read the OP.

You actually very much do. Especially if you're trying to upscale a verse without a single tier 6 feat to tier 4.

The verse has many Low 1-C feats tho...

That scan doesn't even remotely imply weapons AP = EP or that weapons creation = weapons AP.

The GWs AP is litterally based on Elemental Powers. The Elemental Master statement applies to GWs bc they upscale from the same system. The Creation feat itself IS made Elemental Powers

The video is restricted in my country but assuming it's the video of them clashing their weapons and getting blown away, that doesn't even remotely imply they're taking the same yield of energy as the weapon were outputting during the creation feat. The clash itself doesn't even break the ground under them iirc.

The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack.

What? Could you expand on that? Because I remember some scenes of the ninjas saying Lloyd has "all 4 elemental powers" specifically to in reference to him being able to use all 4 elements, not having the combined power of all 4 EWs

The Ninjas specifically stated he has the power of the Golden Weapons bc he can use the 4 Elements (he still can)

 

[AigerTheKing]

Anyway, I agree with the Mega weapon being a 4-C feat, but I should mention durability feats involving it may be dependent on inverse square law. Though how does the cross sectional area of the blast work?

Wdym by Inverse Square Law?

What? Could you expand on that? Because I remember some scenes of the ninjas saying Lloyd has "all 4 elemental powers" specifically to in reference to him being able to use all 4 elements, not having the combined power of all 4 EWs

The Ninjas only had access to the Main 4 Elements throught the GWs at that point, so yeah they were talking about them

 

[AigerTheKing]

The video is restricted in my country but assuming it's the video of them clashing their weapons and getting blown away, that doesn't even remotely imply they're taking the same yield of energy as the weapon were outputting during the creation feat. The clash itself doesn't even break the ground under them iirc.

That reasoning is extremely flawed. Using that logically, a character breaking a Universe wouldn't scale to that feat bc all his attacks don't destroy the Universe

 

[DavidTPPM]

The GWs Creation is done by Elemental Powers ---> Those Elemental Powers scale to them physically ---> Their Durability and Attack Potency scale to each other

I feel like you're just repeating the same thing as before. Being able to use X amount of energy for creation doesn't mean you can inherently channel the exact same amount of energy for AP.
If the GWs can create 1 star with all of the energy they contain that wouldn't mean every single one of their strikes is 4-C. Only that a single strike containing all of their energy would be.

Wu creates a Pocket Reality with Elemental Power ---> That Elemental Power scale to him physically ---> His Strength, Durability and Attack Potency scale to each other

I'm not going to address the Wu stuff yet because I feel like going over it 1 at a time would be the best to avoid misunderstandings.

(Also note that Wu's Elemental Power is Creation, which does allow him to create things which he channels in his body)

That kinda implies it's a hax ability rather than something that scales to his stats but idrc rn.

That's not what's written on the UES page

If we're going strictly by the UES then EPs shouldn't even be UES to begin with, as Spinjitzu is specifically listed to scale above their physical stats.

The verse has many Low 1-C feats tho...

We're talking about the 4-Cs here. Characters that transcend them by literal orders of infinity having higher feats isn't exactly supportive evidence.

The GWs AP is litterally based on Elemental Powers. The Elemental Master statement applies to GWs bc they upscale from the same system.

No...? Why would it? And again I feel like this id all kinda irrelevant information to the topic. You'd have to specifically prove the star creation is a feat as casual as throwing a punch for it to scale to stuff like striking strength.

The Ninjas specifically stated he has the power of the Golden Weapons bc he can use the 4 Elements (he still can)

The power of the 4 elements = ice, fire, electricity, earth.
Why would the statement be comparing his punching strength to the amount of energy they can output while creating a star?

 

[DavidTPPM]

That reasoning is extremely flawed. Using that logically, a character breaking a Universe wouldn't scale to that feat bc all his attacks don't destroy the Universe

I'm not saying AP has to = DC. I'm saying there's no reason to believe a 9-B explosion made by the weapons touching each other is outputting the same amount of energy as the weapons creating a wholeass star.

I mean it's visibly a different action since a star didn't just spawn on their face lol

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I feel like you're just repeating the same thing as before. Being able to use X amount of energy for creation doesn't mean you can inherently channel the exact same amount of energy for AP.
If the GWs can create 1 star with all of the energy they contain that wouldn't mean every single one of their strikes is 4-C. Only that a single strike containing all of their energy would be.

This completly against the wiki Tiering System. The blog also clearly explains 1 GW ≠ All of them togheter

If we're going strictly by the UES then EPs shouldn't even be UES to begin with, as Spinjitzu is specifically listed to scale above their physical stats.

What?

On the contrary, upon gaining a increase in power with the Spinjitzu Burst, clearly channeling his element throught his body, Cole could easly defeat the Skull Sorcerer, something he couldn't do in his base form.

Hence there should be evidence that an increase in power / energy should correspond to a proportional increase in the potency of their physical statistics.

No...? Why would it? And again I feel like this id all kinda irrelevant information to the topic.

Are we really going to argue why the GWs possess Elemental Powers??????

You'd have to specifically prove the star creation is a feat as casual as throwing a punch for it to scale to stuff like striking strength.

Its the only GW feat when combined togheter

The power of the 4 elements = ice, fire, electricity, earth.
Why would the statement be comparing his punching strength to the amount of energy they can output while creating a star?

The combined power of the 4 Elements = the power of the combined GWs

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Anyway, I agree with the Mega weapon being a 4-C feat, but I should mention durability feats involving it may be dependent on inverse square law. Though how does the cross sectional area of the blast work?

Well, this explosion caused by all Golden Weapons was very close to them, and although you could still argue they is far enough, they just laughed it off like it was NBD, so it should still solidify other arguments, with these being them being able to take each others attacks and etc. durability scaling via UES, so I think durability is good.

 

[AigerTheKing]

I'm not saying AP has to = DC. I'm saying there's no reason to believe a 9-B explosion made by the weapons touching each other is outputting the same amount of energy as the weapons creating a wholeass star.

I mean it's visibly a different action since a star didn't just spawn on their face lol

Should we downgrade every single characters with 4-B feats that don't break a solar system off a regular blast? That's what you are arguing atm, and Im telling you again its just wrong. Goku scale to a UES with a similar case to Elemental Powers (His Ki amplifying his body), should we downgrade him because he isn't shaking the Universe with normal attacks? This is exactly why we have a rule regarding the area of attack


Regarding Wu's feat, his Creation powers can be used offensively, and he can harm the Ninjas with both Creation Blasts and with physical blows in a similar amount of power, so the feat should scale to him. The same logic should apply to the GWs, possessing the power of Creation altogheter and channeling the main Elements individually already, scaling it to their durability and also implying you would indeed need Star lvl of Durability to wisthand such power. To be more precise:
Each Weapon channels a certain quantity of energy --> They altogheter channel a higher lvl of energy (Star lvl amount of it) --> It instantly vaporize whoever is too weak to handle that energy but those are strong enough to wield it don't (This is made clear with Garmadon wisthanding its power, while a human lvl fodder couldn't).

 

[YmTheSuper]

For many reasons I believe that the star level scaling completely contradicts the whole narrative of the series.

Spoiler: The feat

The feat in itself is extremely vague as it doesn't allow for any measurements (for all we know it could have created anything in-between brown dwarf or a large star) but we have verses that rely only on statements (Novels, Books...) but scaling every single character in the verse doesn't make sense and this will be further elaborated on in the next section.

Spoiler: Outlier

The star level feat is a massive outlier as it is used to scale the ninja in their base and every single character in the verse scales to them with some exceptions (like only 1 or 2 characters).
No other feat reaches even close to this level of strength for low and mid-tier characters in fact it is a very obvious outlier as the closest feat to it 6-A.
To further support this Lloyd believed that the ninja died from a subway tunnel collapsing on them (It is also portrayed that the only reason they survived is due to hiding inside of a abandoned train), also Harumi (Who doesn't have a profile but would scale to the ninja) dies from a building collapsing. (Confirmed in crystalized)I am not saying that they should be downgraded to wall level or building level or anything like that I am just saying that scaling every single character to a random statement that is very clearly an outlier makes no sense.
Now you might argue how can the star feat be an outlier when low 1-c and low 2-c feats exist in the first and this is why:

• low 1-c only applies to the god tiers of the verse (The Overlord, Source Dragons, FSM...) who are always portrayed as cosmic entities that can alter the balance and affect the 16 realms which are all accepted to be 5d structures. These feats are consistent and have no relation to other characters that don't directly scale to them.
• Low 2-c applies to characters from dragons rising (The sequel series to Ninjago) where the most prominent plot is the mergequakes causing the 16 realms to merge and coexist in one merged realm.

Scaling to the mergequakes is very consistent and makes sense as the ninja close such quakes on multiple occasions (Also the events of Dragons rising happen after crystallized where the ninja, although temporarily, take their dragon forms that directly scale to the god tiers of the verse so it wouldn't be absurd that their base form after the main series scale to the mergequakes)

Spoiler: Golden Weapons scaling

The only reason the ninja even scale to this feat is due to a comic relief scene that happens right at the end of the pilots where the golden weapons make contact while the ninja are holding them and it causes an explosion, I don't think this is enough evidence for the ninja to scale to star level as this is both an outlier as stated earlier and a comic relief scene.
But let's assume that the star creation feat isn't an outlier why can't we scale each ninja to his portion of the star (baseline star level/8 because the star is made of 8 golden weapons in total). Well the reason is because not only do the golden weapons grant a boost in base but they don't scale linearly. The most simple way to explain this is via Samukai who was able to use 3 Golden Weapons with no problem but the moment he used all 4 weapons together he got erased from existence and a portal through space and time was created. This proves that the 4 golden weapons together act in ways that are completely different from the weapons individual (Which makes me think thay samukai even scaling to the 6-A he has in profile is questionable). This is also consistent with the fact that it is mentioned many times that the golden weapons can't be handled at once (No one ever struggles to use 3 of them) which proves that the feats that scale to the 4 weapons shouldn't be used to scale to the weapons individually

In conclusion I believe that the Star level scaling should be removed from the profiles and replaced with another stat and I think the wu dimension creation feat is a better feat to scale the characters of but I still think it would be an outlier but be free to change my mind i could be convinced otherwise.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

For many reasons I believe that the star level scaling completely contradicts the whole narrative of the series.

Spoiler: The feat

The feat in itself is extremely vague as it doesn't allow for any measurements (for all we know it could have created anything in-between brown dwarf or a large star) but we have verses that rely only on statements (Novels, Books...) but scaling every single character in the verse doesn't make sense and this will be further elaborated on in the next section.

Spoiler: Outlier

The star level feat is a massive outlier as it is used to scale the ninja in their base and every single character in the verse scales to them with some exceptions (like only 1 or 2 characters).
No other feat reaches even close to this level of strength for low and mid-tier characters in fact it is a very obvious outlier as the closest feat to it 6-A.
To further support this Lloyd believed that the ninja died from a subway tunnel collapsing on them (It is also portrayed that the only reason they survived is due to hiding inside of a abandoned train), also Harumi (Who doesn't have a profile but would scale to the ninja) dies from a building collapsing. (Confirmed in crystalized)I am not saying that they should be downgraded to wall level or building level or anything like that I am just saying that scaling every single character to a random statement that is very clearly an outlier makes no sense.
Now you might argue how can the star feat be an outlier when low 1-c and low 2-c feats exist in the first and this is why:

• low 1-c only applies to the god tiers of the verse (The Overlord, Source Dragons, FSM...) who are always portrayed as cosmic entities that can alter the balance and affect the 16 realms which are all accepted to be 5d structures. These feats are consistent and have no relation to other characters that don't directly scale to them.
• Low 2-c applies to characters from dragons rising (The sequel series to Ninjago) where the most prominent plot is the mergequakes causing the 16 realms to merge and coexist in one merged realm.

Scaling to the mergequakes is very consistent and makes sense as the ninja close such quakes on multiple occasions (Also the events of Dragons rising happen after crystallized where the ninja, although temporarily, take their dragon forms that directly scale to the god tiers of the verse so it wouldn't be absurd that their base form after the main series scale to the mergequakes)

Spoiler: Golden Weapons scaling

The only reason the ninja even scale to this feat is due to a comic relief scene that happens right at the end of the pilots where the golden weapons make contact while the ninja are holding them and it causes an explosion, I don't think this is enough evidence for the ninja to scale to star level as this is both an outlier as stated earlier and a comic relief scene.
But let's assume that the star creation feat isn't an outlier why can't we scale each ninja to his portion of the star (baseline star level/8 because the star is made of 8 golden weapons in total). Well the reason is because not only do the golden weapons grant a boost in base but they don't scale linearly. The most simple way to explain this is via Samukai who was able to use 3 Golden Weapons with no problem but the moment he used all 4 weapons together he got erased from existence and a portal through space and time was created. This proves that the 4 golden weapons together act in ways that are completely different from the weapons individual (Which makes me think thay samukai even scaling to the 6-A he has in profile is questionable). This is also consistent with the fact that it is mentioned many times that the golden weapons can't be handled at once (No one ever struggles to use 3 of them) which proves that the feats that scale to the 4 weapons shouldn't be used to scale to the weapons individually

In conclusion I believe that the Star level scaling should be removed from the profiles and replaced with another stat and I think the wu dimension creation feat is a better feat to scale the characters of but I still think it would be an outlier but be free to change my mind i could be convinced otherwise.

I will reply to this later but note that nobody is arguing the individual GWs are 4-C

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The feat in itself is extremely vague as it doesn't allow for any measurements (for all we know it could have created anything in-between brown dwarf or a large star) but we have verses that rely only on statements (Novels, Books...)

It is not only on statements, we literally see a star in the show, LOL

but scaling every single character in the verse doesn't make sense and this will be further elaborated on in the next section.

Hmmm let’s see it

The star level feat is a massive outlier as it is used to scale the ninja in their base and every single character in the verse scales to them with some exceptions (like only 1 or 2 characters).

Actually we see in Crystalized that some major villains can take GWs explosion as well, and the others scale via scaling to Ninjas

No other feat reaches even close to this level of strength for low and mid-tier characters in fact it is a very obvious outlier as the closest feat to it 6-A.

6-A via?.. Also, no, it is consistent with Wu’s feat

To further support this Lloyd believed that the ninja died from a subway tunnel collapsing on them (It is also portrayed that the only reason they survived is due to hiding inside of a abandoned train)

They also believe that Cole died from a fall, although he took it just fine, lol. It’s just that fiction overestimates such moments, by that logic tons of fiction should be Tier 10-9

also Harumi (Who doesn't have a profile but would scale to the ninja) dies from a building collapsing.

She is a fodder that does not scale to 4-C, lol, she even lacks profile

a random statement that is very clearly an outlier makes no sense.

It is shown + very consistently stated how is it random. And again, supported by Wu’s feat

• Low 2-c applies to characters from dragons rising (The sequel series to Ninjago) where the most prominent plot is the mergequakes causing the 16 realms to merge and coexist in one merged realm.

Scaling to the mergequakes is very consistent and makes sense as the ninja close such quakes on multiple occasions

This will be downgraded

(Also the events of Dragons rising happen after crystallized where the ninja, although temporarily, take their dragon forms that directly scale to the god tiers of the verse so it wouldn't be absurd that their base form after the main series scale to the mergequakes)

They lost their Dragon Forms (and powers) in the very next episode after they gained it

The only reason the ninja even scale to this feat is due to a comic relief scene that happens right at the end of the pilots where the golden weapons make contact while the ninja are holding them and it causes an explosion, I don't think this is enough evidence for the ninja to scale to star level as this is both an outlier as stated earlier and a comic relief scene.

No?? They scale due to being comparable to Garmadon and Cole, as well as via UES

But let's assume that the star creation feat isn't an outlier why can't we scale each ninja to his portion of the star (baseline star level/8 because the star is made of 8 golden weapons in total). Well the reason is because not only do the golden weapons grant a boost in base but they don't scale linearly. The most simple way to explain this is via Samukai who was able to use 3 Golden Weapons with no problem but the moment he used all 4 weapons together he got erased from existence and a portal through space and time was created. This proves that the 4 golden weapons together act in ways that are completely different from the weapons individual (Which makes me think thay samukai even scaling to the 6-A he has in profile is questionable). This is also consistent with the fact that it is mentioned many times that the golden weapons can't be handled at once (No one ever struggles to use 3 of them) which proves that the feats that scale to the 4 weapons shouldn't be used to scale to the weapons individuallyz

In conclusion I believe that the Star level scaling should be removed from the profiles and replaced with another stat and I think the wu dimension creation feat is a better feat to scale the characters of but I still think it would be an outlier but be free to change my mind i could be convinced otherwise.

I have a feeling that you never checked my blog mentioned in the OP, since you addressed none of it and pretended as if it does not exist. Your last portion, as well as almost everything else to what I responded, is addressed there.

 

[Scarletjet]

I kinda of started all this despite being a recently accepted member of the wiki. I watched Ninjago on television and just stumbled on this website. I was never against the 4-C being used and sincerily I thought the tier 4 was accepted what I questioned if 4-C being used for casual attacks was accepted because it really makes no sense for base ninjas to just outright scale to 4-C.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Spoiler: Golden Weapons scaling

The only reason the ninja even scale to this feat is due to a comic relief scene that happens right at the end of the pilots where the golden weapons make contact while the ninja are holding them and it causes an explosion, I don't think this is enough evidence for the ninja to scale to star level as this is both an outlier as stated earlier and a comic relief scene.
But let's assume that the star creation feat isn't an outlier why can't we scale each ninja to his portion of the star (baseline star level/8 because the star is made of 8 golden weapons in total). Well the reason is because not only do the golden weapons grant a boost in base but they don't scale linearly. The most simple way to explain this is via Samukai who was able to use 3 Golden Weapons with no problem but the moment he used all 4 weapons together he got erased from existence and a portal through space and time was created. This proves that the 4 golden weapons together act in ways that are completely different from the weapons individual (Which makes me think thay samukai even scaling to the 6-A he has in profile is questionable). This is also consistent with the fact that it is mentioned many times that the golden weapons can't be handled at once (No one ever struggles to use 3 of them) which proves that the feats that scale to the 4 weapons shouldn't be used to scale to the weapons individually

This guy, does not know that Ninja (S1/2) was fought on par with Garmadon, who stated to equal to The Golden Weapons, and he mentioned that he was able to carry them without being erasure him, and Cole himself was able to touch them without even being erase him, and let's not forget that Lloyd himself has the power of TGW.