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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

karo_senpaii said:
WDYM you know it is 2c but hard to prove? So how do you know it is 2c ?By faith?
Click to expand...
Well, you would have to prove that Kaguya was going to destroy her entire space-time rather than just the space. Thus, for some people, it might be more difficult to prove.
 
Samlex1234 said:
What is your rebuttal to Arc’s claim that the Kanji translate to just space and it can't be a Time-space destruction?
Click to expand...
There is a whole thread a real translator made refuting this particular claim, long story short, narrowing down to dictionary definitions does not allow for proper translation to english due to different words being interchangeable with each other depending on their context, this is the reason why the VIZ translators picked time space when publishing the english version of manga as it is more accurate than gooning the word space off of google translate

so it is in fact space time destruction in the end
 
Y'all do realize that even if it were time-space destruction/creation it still wouldn't be Low 2-C/2-C, right?
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Y'all do realize that even if it were time-space destruction/creation it still wouldn't be Low 2-C/2-C, right?
Click to expand...
I know that BUT is your reasoning for that claim made from the requirement of universal size? because that can be backed too (with solid stuff, none of that parallel dimension nonsense)


Apollonir.Scale said:
What are exponential expressions?
Click to expand...
I'm messing around with you, no such thing happened
Kido got 1000x faster than sai tier shinobi
and boruto era god tiers massively scale above sakura who could fight with him
 
Apollonir.Scale said:
Can someone explain how the characters got to FTL+? If the characters are FTL+ then just wait for the Prime Hiruzen FTL+ CRT 😏
Click to expand...
If a value is very close to a higher level (1.25* difference is acceptable iirc?) then a character who massively outscales that value can be upscaled to baseline next tier.

Although the way it's currently treated is extremely chaotic and poorly done in-universe
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
because that can be backed too
Click to expand...
Well, if you can, that would definitely change things. But given my own experience and knowledge, I doubt that you can.
This is not a knock on you personally. You seem like a smart guy. It's just that I genuinely don't believe that the information we have at the moment is enough to back up Kaguya's dimensions being universal in size.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Read our standards for these tiers and you'll understand. Those pages do a better job of explaining it than I ever could with the limited time I have ATM.
Click to expand...
I have read it numerous times that was why I asked to explain further if there is something written elsewhere I have no idea of.

Low 2-C: Universe level+​

Characters or objects whose power is uncountably infinitely greater than the prior tiers. That is to say, they can significantly affect, create and/or destroy higher-dimensional structures that exceed lesser objects by an uncountably infinite margin. An example of this being 4-dimensional spacetime continuums of universal size, but can be generalized to any 4-dimensional structure of a similar scope.

Thus Kaguya destroying and even recreating a 4D structure parallel to Naruto universe would be indeed low 2C
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Well, if you can, that would definitely change things. But given my own experience and knowledge, I doubt that you can.
This is not a knock on you personally. You seem like a smart guy. It's just that I genuinely don't believe that the information we have at the moment is enough to back up Kaguya's dimensions being universal in size.
Click to expand...
that's fair, Kishi sure don't make it easy to prove with the serious lack of star illustrations in his manga
 
Samlex1234 said:
I have read it numerous times that was why I asked to explain further if there is something written elsewhere I have no idea of.

Low 2-C: Universe level+​

Characters or objects whose power is uncountably infinitely greater than the prior tiers. That is to say, they can significantly affect, create and/or destroy higher-dimensional structures that exceed lesser objects by an uncountably infinite margin. An example of this being 4-dimensional spacetime continuums of universal size, but can be generalized to any 4-dimensional structure of a similar scope.

Thus Kaguya destroying and even recreating a 4D structure parallel to Naruto universe would be indeed low 2C
Click to expand...
You would need to prove their timelines are independant and their sizes are universal and I doubt saying parallel is enough to qualify in anyone's book (but it is good supporting evidence)


for the timelines part you could make use of Isshiki and Momoshiki's dimension to try and argue since their times are frozen while konoha's time is freely moving it would mean the timelines are separate but I doubt that would work




btw, why's ETSO listed as 4C instead of 4B?
 
Any spacetime continuum of notable size would inherently possess more than an infinite amount of 3D snapshots of the 3D universe within it same way a 3D cube would be composed of more than an infinite amount of 2D square snapshots. Meaning something like a portal being referred to as "spacetime" would not be enough for L2C, but an entire dimension probably would.

Of course to scale to the feat you would have to prove a character is affecting the entertainment continuum and not just a single snapshot of the world.

Now I'm not sure if the exact size of the dimension matters. Purely logically speaking, it shouldn't but the wiki says this
An example of this being 4-dimensional spacetime continuums of universal size, but can be generalized to any 4-dimensional structure of a similar scope
Click to expand...
Which makes me unsure
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
You would need to prove their timelines are independant and their sizes are universal and I doubt saying parallel is enough to qualify in anyone's book (but it is good supporting evidence)


for the timelines part you could make use of Isshiki and Momoshiki's dimension to try and argue since their times are frozen while konoha's time is freely moving it would mean the timelines are separate but I doubt that would work




btw, why's ETSO listed as 4C instead of 4B?
Click to expand...
I would reply to this soon but, I slightly disagree with that notion.
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
btw, why's ETSO listed as 4C instead of 4B?
Click to expand...
As far as I understand, the current interpretation for ETSO is that it slowly grows until it engulfs the dimension rather than it exploding and obliterating the dimension.
As a result its only scaled to it recreating the star inside of the dimension, not the destruction
 
I think it is a useless effort, at least at this moment, to try to prove that the ETSB is 2-C, a huge effort is required, and in the end it will not change much.
 
NemesisZorX said:
I think it is a useless effort, at least at this moment, to try to prove that the ETSB is 2-C, a huge effort is required, and in the end it will not change much.
Click to expand...
Whew. No you don't actually need a huge effort. Though right now I don't have that energy to propose anything. I will make the arguments for you.
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
for the timelines part you could make use of Isshiki and Momoshiki's dimension to try and argue since their times are frozen while konoha's time is freely moving it would mean the timelines are separate but I doubt that would work
Click to expand...
If characters can't travel between them physically and need something like space-time portals, then it's enough as I know.
 
DavidTPPM said:
As far as I understand, the current interpretation for ETSO is that it slowly grows until it engulfs the dimension rather than it exploding and obliterating the dimension.
As a result its only scaled to it recreating the star inside of the dimension, not the destruction
Click to expand...
Oh now it makes sense 😭


gosh kishimoto why did you need to put so many holes in the final feat the whole verse relies on 💔
 
NemesisZorX said:
I think it is a useless effort, at least at this moment, to try to prove that the ETSB is 2-C, a huge effort is required, and in the end it will not change much.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone of us are hungry for upgrades, it sure as hell seems like it might never end up on their profiles, doesn't mean one can't have discussions around it


Floxy178 said:
If characters can't travel between them physically and need something like space-time portals, then it's enough as I know.
Click to expand...
Fr??
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
Fr??
Click to expand...
vsbattles.fandom.com

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
Oh now it makes sense 😭


gosh kishimoto why did you need to put so many holes in the final feat the whole verse relies on 💔
Click to expand...
Holess?. I think Kishimoto was very clear on that feat. The reason why we have so many holes is because we are not using the real feat. He was very clear when he said Alternate dimensions/parallel dimensions, different from the Naruto universe yet parallel or similar in dimension. It is either you use the feat or you don't. I have a more extensive reply but I'm at work.

But we don't no know the size?
Answer- yes we do it literally says parallel dimensions

But we don't know the amount of time it will take to destroy the dimension?
Answer- it is a parallel dimension

All the problem solved because we take the feat as it is.
 
Last edited:
MinatoSparkle said:
Yooooo
main-qimg-b6679b70c285db1f2540263e31d7ca65
Click to expand...

WE HAVE ENOUGH ITACHI CONTENT

DO ONE ABOUT HAGOROMO, OR HAMURA, OR ASURA AND INDRA, OR KAGUYA, OR THE BIJUU, OR LITERALLY ANY FAMOUS KAGE
 
this isnt aimed at anyone specifically but given its a topic thats brought up a lot over the years

i want you guys to know that even if the ETSB was 2-C, yall realize it wouldnt scale to anyone meaningfully for the same reason the ETSB doesnt right now, and all the boruto characters would be as they are.

getting the ETSO to 2-C and then scaling it to people individually are two entirely different metas , with each one being harder than the last. getting 2-C ETSO is a hurdle in itself but getting anyone to scale to it physically is an exponential increase in difficulty thats not only hampered by how isolated the ETSB scaling is but by the existence of significantly more internally consistent physical scaling post kaguya era metas.

This isnt meant to be an inherent dismisal of these kinds of metas, ive gone on record of saying that calling kaguya's dimension a universe isnt some outlandish interpretation but i think its important to make the distinction between what you think makes sense verus working within a system that has defined standards in how they handle things.

This is why a lot of newcomers end up getting butt hurt when their threads get significant push back, they end up coming here acting as if they discovered a new science that nobody else understands without doing the meaningful research to understand how we handle specific things, they want to have the satisfication of the wiki's rating without understanding how the wiki works. most outside forums are not beholden to any specific standard other than your own, this isnt applicable to the wiki.

so whenever you want to make a future CRT, keep that in mind. instead of trying fit a a square peg into a round hole, use the wiki's standards to strengthen your point and youll end up having a far better time creating CRT's
 
Last edited:
Speaking of the ETSO, we don’t scale it to Kaguya because it was created with the SA Chakra instead of her own, right?

This is faulty imo because it ignores a valuable piece of information. When Kaguya was FIRST reborn via BZ absorbing IT Chakra, it was stated that he was absorbing Chakra from “Those trapped in IT”. Unlike the Databook statement of Chakra being absorbed solely from Shinobi trapped in IT, this was a statement of Generality, meaning it can be taken as meaning she absorbed some Chakra from everyone in the world.

If the ETSO is created using Chakra from JUST Shinobi, then Resurrected Kaguya is stronger than the ETSO by virtue of having Absorbed Chakra from the World vs just Shinobi.

The only arguments against this is if you think the remaining Shinobi not killed are collectively > The Entire World Collectively (Which is false, especially because they are included) or you somehow try to twist the generality statement as meaning the Shinobi and no one else for which there is no statement or context supporting that.

World IT Chakra (Incl. Shinobi) > Shinobi IT Chakra = ETSO
 
AnimesFreak2 said:
WE HAVE ENOUGH ITACHI CONTENT

DO ONE ABOUT HAGOROMO, OR HAMURA, OR ASURA AND INDRA, OR KAGUYA, OR THE BIJUU, OR LITERALLY ANY FAMOUS KAGE
Click to expand...
Hagoromo and the Otsutsuki were very poorly placed, the third oneshot will be of Sakura, for Hagoromo and the others maybe he will make a footnote (God how I hate the Naruto fandom).
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
this isnt aimed at anyone specifically but given its a topic thats brought up a lot over the years

i want you guys to know that even if the ETSB was 2-C, yall realize it wouldnt scale to anyone meaningfully for the same reason the ETSB doesnt right now, and all the boruto characters would be as they are.

getting the ETSO to 2-C and then scaling it to people individually are two entirely different metas , with each one being harder than the last. getting 2-C ETSO is a hurdle in itself but getting anyone to scale to it physically is an exponential increase in difficulty thats not only hampered by how isolated the ETSB scaling is but by the existence of significantly more internally consistent physical scaling post kaguya era metas.

This isnt meant to be an inherent dismisal of these kinds of metas, ive gone on record of saying that calling kaguya's dimension a universe isnt some outlandish interpretation but i think its important to make the distinction between what you think makes sense verus working within a system that has defined standards in how they handle things.

This is why a lot of newcomers end up getting butt hurt when their threads get significant push back, they end up coming here acting as if they discovered a new science that nobody else understands without doing the meaningful research to understand how we handle specific things, they want to have the satisfication of the wiki's rating without understanding how the wiki works. most outside forums are not beholden to any specific standard other than your own, this isnt applicable to the wiki.

so whenever you want to make a future CRT, keep that in mind. instead of trying fit a a square peg into a round hole, use the wiki's standards to strengthen your point and youll end up having a far better time creating CRT's
Click to expand...
I understand that Kaguya's ETSO (Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb) wouldn't scale directly to any character, including Kaguya herself. However, it's more accurate to rate her as 2-C with the ETSO rather than dismissing it as an unquantifiable feat.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
this isnt aimed at anyone specifically but given its a topic thats brought up a lot over the years

i want you guys to know that even if the ETSB was 2-C, yall realize it wouldnt scale to anyone meaningfully for the same reason the ETSB doesnt right now, and all the boruto characters would be as they are.

getting the ETSO to 2-C and then scaling it to people individually are two entirely different metas , with each one being harder than the last. getting 2-C ETSO is a hurdle in itself but getting anyone to scale to it physically is an exponential increase in difficulty thats not only hampered by how isolated the ETSB scaling is but by the existence of significantly more internally consistent physical scaling post kaguya era metas.

This isnt meant to be an inherent dismisal of these kinds of metas, ive gone on record of saying that calling kaguya's dimension a universe isnt some outlandish interpretation but i think its important to make the distinction between what you think makes sense verus working within a system that has defined standards in how they handle things.

This is why a lot of newcomers end up getting butt hurt when their threads get significant push back, they end up coming here acting as if they discovered a new science that nobody else understands without doing the meaningful research to understand how we handle specific things, they want to have the satisfication of the wiki's rating without understanding how the wiki works. most outside forums are not beholden to any specific standard other than your own, this isnt applicable to the wiki.

so whenever you want to make a future CRT, keep that in mind. instead of trying fit a a square peg into a round hole, use the wiki's standards to strengthen your point and youll end up having a far better time creating CRT's
Click to expand...


Hi Shadow, my CRT has been accepted! Could you assist me in closing it? Also, I need the Kaguya account to be opened so I can make the necessary updates. Thank you for your help!

vsbattles.com

Revising the Kaguya ETSO note for Accuracy and Updating.

Note- This is not an argument for Kaguya to scale to ETSB but to change the reason behind her not scaling. Do not derail. Can we remove this note as it is outdated and inconsistent? “The attempts to make Kaguya scale to her Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball (ETSB) were rejected many times before...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
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