[Losers R4M2] Venefica's Tier 7 Tourney: Accelerator vs Haruka

[VeneficaAuthor]

Original Tourney Thread
Tourney Bracket
Votes

Character	Key	Votes
Accelerator​	Post-Headshot	0
Haruka	Suppressed	0
Inconclusive		0

Welcome to the losers bracket! Whoever loses in the losers bracket will have NO remaining chances in the tourney. Good luck! Winner advances to face Cinner.

40 meters starting distance with equal speed.

Both at 7-A.

 

[ExSENNA]

Goddamn this tourney is still going?

It seems Haruka already lost to Cinner before according to Bracket. So if she is to win here, wouldn't she lose to Cinner again?

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Goddamn this tourney is still going?

It seems Haruka already lost to Cinner before according to Bracket. So if she is to win here, wouldn't she lose to Cinner again?

I mean, automatically assuming that she’ll beat accel beside, that match was actually highly contested and there were two voters who were staunch in their support of Cinner. If anything, if there’s a rematch we’ll be able to get a clear picture this time around and have another look at the arguments, hopefully while leaving everyone satisfied by the end.

Although it would’ve been nice to have all that cleared up the first time around, this is what we’re having to deal with because of the loser’s bracket and how it actually works when it comes to a tourney of fc/oc, since rematches aren’t anything like actual sport rematches

Also yes it is still going but there’s only three matches after this one is finished

 

[ExSENNA]

I mean, automatically assuming that she’ll beat accel beside, that match was actually highly contested and there were two voters who were staunch in their support of Cinner. If anything, if there’s a rematch we’ll be able to get a clear picture this time around and have another look at the arguments, hopefully while leaving everyone satisfied by the end.

Although it would’ve been nice to have all that cleared up the first time around, this is what we’re having to deal with because of the loser’s bracket and how it actually works when it comes to a tourney of fc/oc, since rematches aren’t anything like actual sport rematches

Also yes it is still going but there’s only three matches after this one is finished

Yeah, losers bracket in FCOC is a bit weird since they'll end up facing people they alread won/lost against. As you said this is not like an actual sports tournament where the same athletes can win or lose against one another since things can change since their first match and subsequent rematches. But here if a character won a match once, they'll probably win again with the same arguments, even if it's contested, unless people change their mind for whatever reason

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Yeah, losers bracket in FCOC is a bit weird since they'll end up facing people they alread won/lost against. As you said this is not like an actual sports tournament where the same athletes can win or lose against one another since things can change since their first match and subsequent rematches. But here if a character won a match once, they'll probably win again with the same arguments, even if it's contested, unless people change their mind for whatever reason

Yeah I agree but I feel like in this specific case the last one was so close it could be worth going back and checking to make absolutely sure, at least that way the next round wouldn’t be an absolute waste of time

But all of this does assume that Haruka wins this match, whereas the debate hasn’t begun yet

 

[ExSENNA]

But all of this does assume that Haruka wins this match, whereas the debate hasn’t begun yet

Haruka FRB

 

[Froggytron]

Haruka FRB

Poor Accel, just give him a shot, she still had a decent fight with Asuna

With which does Haruka start a fight against a dude standing on the ground in a gray/white strip shirt?

 

[MintyBoi1]

Let’s see what Accelerator can do here

 

[ShadeyD]

So what does Haruka start off with?

 

[Rayfire]

(Might take a while to respond, I’ve got some family stuff going on)

So what does Haruka start off with?

Judging from haruka’s fight with Shizu, she’d start off with ranged attacks to get an idea of what accelerator is capable of.

 

[ExSENNA]

Poor Accel, just give him a shot, she still had a decent fight with Asuna

joke
/dʒəʊk/
noun
a thing that someone says to cause amusement or laughter, especially a story with a funny punchline.
"she was in a mood to tell jokes"
Similar:
funny story
jest
witticism
quip
pleasantry
pun
play on words
shaggy-dog story
old chestnut
double entendre
in-joke
gag
wisecrack
crack
funny
one-liner
rib-tickler
killer
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boffola
blague
verb
make jokes; talk humorously or flippantly.
"she could laugh and joke with her colleagues"

 

[ShadeyD]

(Might take a while to respond, I’ve got some family stuff going on)

Judging from haruka’s fight with Shizu, she’d start off with ranged attacks to get an idea of what accelerator is capable of.

As usual, Accel would reflect it, so what would she do afterwards?

 

[Rayfire]

As usual, Accel would reflect it, so what would she do afterwards?

Haruka would definitely know that accelerator has an ability that she hasn’t really encountered before (Full-On vector control)but she’d get the gist of what it is. In this case, I could see Haruka taking advantage of accelerators’ ego (He literally just stood there and took the attack) and use this:

• Power Nullification (Via “Negate” Skill. Can use this to prevent the usage of a skill that an opponent is currently using, such as using it to disable a forcefield, stop an attack from reaching her, etc. However, this has a cooldown, and cannot be spammed.)

Which can disable his vector manipulation altogether temporarily, seeing as vector manipulation specifically is mentioned as his main ability for how he performs most of the stuff he does. Haruka can only disable one ability at a time with this, especially since this isn’t her at her best, but the only thing she’d have to worry about is Accelerators’ Elemental manipulation, which she has plenty of experience with. Which would mean Haruka could probably go in for an early kill

( ^ I believe this was something that really helped Asuna as well against accelerator too, lol)

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Haruka would definitely know that accelerator has an ability that she hasn’t really encountered before (Full-On vector control)but she’d get the gist of what it is. In this case, I could see Haruka taking advantage of accelerators’ ego (He literally just stood there and took the attack) and use this:

• Power Nullification (Via “Negate” Skill. Can use this to prevent the usage of a skill that an opponent is currently using, such as using it to disable a forcefield, stop an attack from reaching her, etc. However, this has a cooldown, and cannot be spammed.)

Which can disable his vector manipulation altogether temporarily, seeing as vector manipulation specifically is mentioned as his main ability for how he performs most of the stuff he does. Haruka can only disable one ability at a time with this, especially since this isn’t her at her best, but the only thing she’d have to worry about is Accelerators’ Elemental manipulation, which she has plenty of experience with. Which would mean Haruka could probably go in for an early kill

( ^ I believe this was something that really helped Asuna as well against accelerator too, lol)

How many bakuhatsu characters have that skill?

 

[Rayfire]

How many bakuhatsu characters have that skill?

Well, Ones that have been shown so far, 3 (Haruka, Chidori, Shizu) And another that has the capability to use it (Asuna, who’s seen it twice and has been known to reverse-engineer her friends’ skills before)

 

[MintyBoi1]

Accelerator should find out quickly his Vector Control is disabled with his intelligence and fighting Touma whose whole thing is negating abilities. Though I’m not sure how he’ll survive if Haruka manages to turn off the vector control. Though I also wonder if she can deal with these

• BFR (Can launch objects into outer space),
• Paralysis Inducement (Can steal an object's kinetic energy and control nerves)

Just like how she can go for an early kill, Accelerator can do these to Haruka and her scythe. I think Froggy mentioned how he’s less arrogant after the headshot so he won’t be just standing there.

 

[ShadeyD]

Accelerator should find out quickly his Vector Control is disabled with his intelligence and fighting Touma whose whole thing is negating abilities. Though I’m not sure how he’ll survive if Haruka manages to turn off the vector control. Though I also wonder if she can deal with these

• BFR (Can launch objects into outer space),
• Paralysis Inducement (Can steal an object's kinetic energy and control nerves)

Just like how she can go for an early kill, Accelerator can do these to Haruka and her scythe. I think Froggy mentioned how he’s less arrogant after the headshot so he won’t be just standing there.

Yep, that's correct.
And I'd like to remind people that the first few range attacks fired will go straight back against their opponents.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Yep, that's correct.
And I'd like to remind people that the first few range attacks fired will go straight back against their opponents.

Well Haruka has portals so maybe she could just use those since they start 40 meters apart. She managed to react to crazier things. Just what could a Vectorless Accel do here?

 

[Rayfire]

BFR (Can launch objects into outer space),

Haruka can use a shadow portal to escape that if she gets yeeted, so that won’t really do much other than buy accelerator a few seconds (Adventurers can also survive in space no problem if their XP is sufficient enough, at least in the next chapter)

Paralysis Inducement (Can steal an object's kinetic energy and control nerves)

Not exactly sure on first thoughts, but that’s gonna rely on Haruka getting in close, which she won’t do if she see’s accelerator can reflect her more conventional attacks.

 

[ShadeyD]

Haruka can use a shadow portal to escape that if she gets yeeted, so that won’t really do much other than buy accelerator a few seconds (Adventurers can also survive in space no problem if their XP is sufficient enough, at least in the next chapter)

Not exactly sure on first thoughts, but that’s gonna rely on Haruka getting in close, which she won’t do if she see’s accelerator can reflect her more conventional attacks.

Accelerator's Kinetic energy steal is of planetary range, as his Kinetic Energy steal was based off Accelerator stealing Earth's rotational energy.

 

[Rayfire]

Yep, that's correct.
And I'd like to remind people that the first few range attacks fired will go straight back against their opponents.

Attacks being reflected back at her shouldn’t be anything new to Haruka, considering that adventurers can do this:

• Attack Reflection, Damage Reduction, & Invulnerability (Via Blocking and parrying)

Accelerator doing it without blocking would certainly be a bit surprising to Haruka, but nothing she can’t adapt to or is screwed against. She’s reacted to much worse.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Haruka can use a shadow portal to escape that if she gets yeeted, so that won’t really do much other than buy accelerator a few seconds (Adventurers can also survive in space no problem if their XP is sufficient enough, at least in the next chapter)

Not exactly sure on first thoughts, but that’s gonna rely on Haruka getting in close, which she won’t do if she see’s accelerator can reflect her more conventional attacks.

I meant taking her scythe and throwing it where she can no longer use it, handicapping her options. Also you should add Self-Sustenance and maybe cold resistance in that case.

Accelerator's Kinetic energy steal is of planetary range, as his Kinetic Energy steal was based off Accelerator stealing Earth's rotational energy.

So can he use it even though the rotational energy is banned?

 

[Rayfire]

Accelerator's Kinetic energy steal is of planetary range, as his Kinetic Energy steal was based off Accelerator stealing Earth's rotational energy.

“Planetary diameter when using the Earth's energy and rotation;“

…Says on his profile he can only do that for the earth itself, not anything tens of thousands of kilometres away.

 

[Rayfire]

I meant taking her scythe and throwing it where she can no longer use it, handicapping her options. Also you should add Self-Sustenance and maybe cold resistance in that case.

Space survival hasn’t been shown yet (I said it was in the next chapter, which I’m close to finishing) but I was gonna do that, yeah

Haruka doesn’t need her scythe for most of her abilities, similair to how Asuna’s staff is mostly a swag factor and also to aid her in envisioning attacks better, like a sight on a gun. It’d probably stop her from using ultimate darkness strike, sure, but I don’t see why she couldn’t manage to make something similair without it. The paralysis thing also depends on Haruka getting in accelerators’ range where he’d want her, though, which Haruka wouldn’t risk doing.

 

[Javenplayz253]

Poor Accel, just give him a shot, she still had a decent fight with Asuna

I'm not letting him get away

 

[ShadeyD]

“Planetary diameter when using the Earth's energy and rotation;“

…Says on his profile he can only do that for the earth itself, not anything tens of thousands of kilometres away.

Let me explain, if Accelerator can steal Kinetic Energy from the entire planet itself, what's stopping him from stealing energy in a larger localized manner, his Kinetic Energy steal isn't something that's hard locked into manipulating Earth only.

 

[MrOMG]

Haruka would definitely know that accelerator has an ability that she hasn’t really encountered before (Full-On vector control)but she’d get the gist of what it is. In this case, I could see Haruka taking advantage of accelerators’ ego (He literally just stood there and took the attack) and use this:

• Power Nullification (Via “Negate” Skill. Can use this to prevent the usage of a skill that an opponent is currently using, such as using it to disable a forcefield, stop an attack from reaching her, etc. However, this has a cooldown, and cannot be spammed.)

Which can disable his vector manipulation altogether temporarily, seeing as vector manipulation specifically is mentioned as his main ability for how he performs most of the stuff he does. Haruka can only disable one ability at a time with this, especially since this isn’t her at her best, but the only thing she’d have to worry about is Accelerators’ Elemental manipulation, which she has plenty of experience with. Which would mean Haruka could probably go in for an early kill

( ^ I believe this was something that really helped Asuna as well against accelerator too, lol)

This version of Accel will no longer stand in one place and take hits, but will attack the opponent with everything he has, knowing that there are people in the world capable of defeating him (at least Touma, since the timeline is unknown). So how fast is she, will she be able to react to Accel? And what prevents Accel from analyzing the nature of her ability and gaining conceptual immunity?

 

[Rayfire]

Let me explain, if Accelerator can steal Kinetic Energy from the entire planet itself, what's stopping him from stealing energy in a larger localized manner, his Kinetic Energy steal isn't something that's hard locked into manipulating Earth only.

Well, I think that’d be because he’s in contact with the earth itself, like you and I are right now. If accelerator’s vector manipulation was this insane, he’d have killed everyone he encountered. In fact, his profile also says this:

“Varies with what vector he comes in contact with;“

Since he can draw energy from the kinetic energy of the earth itself, that’s what grants him planetary range.

 

[ShadeyD]

So can he use it even though the rotational energy is banned?

He should be able to use a lower form of it in a localized manner.

 

[MintyBoi1]

This version of Accel will no longer stand in one place and take hits, but will attack the opponent with everything he has, knowing that there are people in the world capable of defeating him (at least Touma, since the timeline is unknown). So how fast is she, will she be able to react to Accel? And what prevents Accel from analyzing the nature of her ability and gaining conceptual immunity?

Speed is equalized

 

[Rayfire]

This version of Accel will no longer stand in one place and take hits, but will attack the opponent with everything he has, knowing that there are people in the world capable of defeating him (at least Touma, since the timeline is unknown). So how fast is she, will she be able to react to Accel? And what prevents Accel from analyzing the nature of her ability and gaining conceptual immunity?

Haruka is easily Faster than light in base But obviously this is speed equalised. Even then, Haruka is no stranger to fast-paced fights, as made evident with her fight against Shizu.

 

[Rayfire]

Also, even if accelerators’ range is planetary for sum reason, and she gets paralyzed, magic is dependent on the mind, not physical movements. So, Haruka should still be able to nullify the vectors manipulation.

 

[Rayfire]

And what prevents Accel from analyzing the nature of her ability and gaining conceptual immunity?

Magic in Bakuhatsu is extremely variable, (Basically Imagination manifestation, just with a couple of limitations) so even if accelerator gains immunity to one skill, there’s a bajillion more he’d have to do that for that Haruka would have in her arsenal. This is suppressed Haruka too, so she’s not even going all out, meaning she canonically has plenty more to show given her experience

 

[MrOMG]

Magic in Bakuhatsu is extremely variable, (Basically Imagination manifestation, just with a couple of limitations) so even if accelerator gains immunity to one skill, there’s a bajillion more he’d have to do that for that Haruka would have in her arsenal. This is suppressed Haruka too, so she’s not even going all out

Accel analyzes the essence of the law/core. The same Dark Matter he analyzed to the very essence, so any variation of Dark Matter (even though Dark Matter can change into infinite variations, and each variation will have its own unique laws that fundamentally contradict the laws of physics) will not be able to overcome Vector Control. Accel said he doesn't even need to deepen his understanding of the world of their laws/theories. Accel can adapt to the very nature of the ability, and none of those billions of abilities would work on him.

 

[Rayfire]

Accel analyzes the essence of the law/core. The same Dark Matter he analyzed to the very essence, so any variation of Dark Matter (even though Dark Matter can change into infinite variations, and each variation will have its own unique laws that fundamentally contradict the laws of physics) will not be able to overcome Vector Control. Accel said he doesn't even need to deepen his understanding of the world of their laws/theories. Accel can adapt to the very nature of the ability, and none of those billions of abilities would work on him.

How does that work? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think that accelerator in this key can use those. Closest thing I see is limited law manipulation, which Haruka also has Not all of haruka’s attacks are “Dark” in essence either. I don’t see any resistances to power nullification or extreme levels of adaptation like you say in this key either. Nullify will still turn off accelerators’ vectors.

 

[Rayfire]

Accel analyzes the essence of the law/core. The same Dark Matter he analyzed to the very essence, so any variation of Dark Matter (even though Dark Matter can change into infinite variations, and each variation will have its own unique laws that fundamentally contradict the laws of physics) will not be able to overcome Vector Control. Accel said he doesn't even need to deepen his understanding of the world of their laws/theories. Accel can adapt to the very nature of the ability, and none of those billions of abilities would work on him.

• Limited Law Manipulation: Esper powers work based on the espers personal reality. As this is their subjective view of the world the rules underlying their abilities are based mostly on what they believe them to be. For example, Kuroyoru Umidori can fire nitrogen lances from her hands, but can also fire them from robot hands she controls as in her mind those count as her hands. The laws an esper ability works on can even ignore the usual laws of physics as demonstrated by Kakine Teitoku, who is able to create a type of matter that can't exist within the constraints of normal physics. However, espers are not able to change the laws their abilities follow at will. It should be noted that esper abilities are nonetheless viewed as fundamentally scientific, meaning that they likely obey a generalized set of physical laws.

How can accelerator contradict the laws of physics if this literally says that they still obey general laws of physics according to the esper power page?

 

[ShadeyD]

Well, I think that’d be because he’s in contact with the earth itself, like you and I are right now. If accelerator’s vector manipulation was this insane, he’d have killed everyone he encountered. In fact, his profile also says this:

“Varies with what vector he comes in contact with;“

Since he can draw energy from the kinetic energy of the earth itself, that’s what grants him planetary range.

Well yeah, something like this would kill everyone due to the immense destruction slowing the Earth's rotation by 4 minutes would cause

OT13 Chapter 8 Part 8

Accelerator stuck his hand into a nearby concrete wall. He manipulated the vectors so his arm sank in as easily as if the wall was made of tofu. Accelerator shouted so loud blood came from his throat and he moved his arm complexly around in the wall.

He took control of all of the vectors.

A great roar exploded out.

In that instant, earth’s rotation slowed by about 5 minutes for September 30.

His arm took the massive energy of the planet’s rotation and used his vector control to transform it into a demonic strike.

The concrete wall he forcibly gouged out was thrown with frightening speed. Accelerator stood in an alley surrounded by buildings, but the several buildings between him and his target were torn through like paper.

But since Accelerator can steal Kinetic Energy from Earth because he's in contact with it, what's stopping him from the same logic when he's in contact with the ground itself?, we know Accel can extend his powers through flat surfaces.

In a similar manner, Accelerator has access to several Kilometers away away with his air manip just because Air is making contact with his hands (though, only the safe amount is allowed due to it's filter system, but since that said Air is connected to other air particles, he's able to manipulate it freely), and to add on to this, Accelerator's can create giant ravines with his Earth Manipulation.

 

[ShadeyD]

• Limited Law Manipulation: Esper powers work based on the espers personal reality. As this is their subjective view of the world the rules underlying their abilities are based mostly on what they believe them to be. For example, Kuroyoru Umidori can fire nitrogen lances from her hands, but can also fire them from robot hands she controls as in her mind those count as her hands. The laws an esper ability works on can even ignore the usual laws of physics as demonstrated by Kakine Teitoku, who is able to create a type of matter that can't exist within the constraints of normal physics. However, espers are not able to change the laws their abilities follow at will. It should be noted that esper abilities are nonetheless viewed as fundamentally scientific, meaning that they likely obey a generalized set of physical laws.

How can accelerator contradict the laws of physics if this literally says that they still obey general laws of physics according to the esper power page?

Kakine Teitoku's powers is an ability called "Dark Matter"
That is referring to them being unable to warp reality freely, as they're locked into one power only.

However Kakine Teitoku's Dark Matter is technically a single ability, with a variety of uses, which involve breaking the laws of physics.

"Elementary particles are things even tinier than molecules and atoms. We know that there exist gauge bosons, leptons, and quarks. There are also hadrons which are made when antiparticles or quarks gather, but, well, they're all divided into a few general categories. These elementary particles make up the world.”

“However,” said Kakine in a soft voice, “That kind of common knowledge does not apply to my Dark Matter!”

Boom! Accompanying gale winds, the six wings behind Kakine instantly recovered their forms.

“The Dark Matter I create is matter that does not exist in this world. It’s not matter that hasn’t yet been discovered, nor matter that theoretically exists, but rather matter which undeniably does not exist.”

A material made by an esper ability that could not be classified by science.

Faced by these white wings that seemed to have come from a different world and defy the laws of physics, Accelerator’s will was not shaken.

[…]

“… Go back and study up on physics, you idiot. No matter how you diffract sunlight it doesn’t change the nature of it into something like a beam of light that kills.”

“Hm, that is indeed the case with the normal physics of this world.”

Kakine’s six wings curled up and gathered strength.

“But! My Dark Matter is matter that does not exist in this world! It completely disobeys the laws of physics of this world. Sunlight that gets diffracted by the Dark Matter will also have its own set of laws! Foreign bodies are like this: by just mixing in a little bit, the world will completely change!”

 

[Rayfire]

But since Accelerator can steal Kinetic Energy from Earth because he's in contact with it, what's stopping him from the same logic when he's in contact with the ground itself?, we know Accel can extend his powers through flat surfaces.

In a similar manner, Accelerator has access to several Kilometers away away with his air manip just because Air is making contact with his hands (though, only the safe amount is allowed due to it's filter system, but since that said Air is connected to other air particles, he's able to manipulate it freely), and to add on to this, Accelerator's can create giant ravines with his Earth Manipulation

Haruka, like many adventurers, have dealt with this sort of stuff before. Air magic and earth magic are very common, and sometimes even monsters that have killed enough humans, like Kedron, can also use them as well. I don’t think accelerator using this will be a problem, and this also seems to be IF Haruka for some reason doesn’t turn off his vector manipulation via nullify and go for a kill right away.

That’s true, but due to the tourney rules, Accelerator is still limited to Mountain Level-Large Mountain level, so he can’t take much of it. Haruka will have no problem taking that hit and healing from it given her experience, supernatural willpower. Immense pain tolerance, and also healing. Haruka can also avoid that altogether if she just flies straight up

 

[Rayfire]

Kakine Teitoku's powers is an ability called "Dark Matter", that is referring to them being unable to warp reality freely, as they're locked into one power only.

However Kakine Teitoku's Dark Matter is technically a single ability, with a variety of uses, which involve breaking the laws of physics.

I see. But like I’ve said before, not all of haruka’s abilities are dark-based. On top of that, Dark matter, scientifically, is also very different from literal magic, even if both power systems can break the laws of physics. Even if accelerator could gain a resistance to haruka’s magic super fast (Although I don’t see any Reactive evolution or any of that on his profile, at least in the Post-Headshot version of him) He still doesn’t have a resistance to power nullification. So, once accelerators’ vectors are gone, his options are very limited, and he’s not winning without his vectors (7-A striking strength >>>>> 9-B Durability)