Bower has Extrasensory Perception and Clairvoyance and can see invisible peps.
Can he come back after Bowers BFR's him, transmutes him, or shrinks him to cellular size?
Well, damn. Got a feat in just the last game, eh?
Shrinking is irrelevant. It's a black hole. Its singularity is already shrunken.
Remember that equal LS is at a distance, though. A black hole increases its gravity with the inverse square of the distance, up to infinite at its center. So if Bowser gets close, Wally's LS should outclass his.
Actually, coming back to this, that's not his base form, so I guess Bowser actually has no feats for sensing Fabre.
A. Not on the profile(increasing LS from existing at any rate)
Bowser's shenanigans historically only takes one arm or a gesture to pull off IIRC
Yeah that is the point of me using Kaido as my example
a) That's kinda part of the black hole creation ability. As the ability page says black holes have infinite gravity in their center. And black holes have the gravitational pull determined by mass, so that as well is just a natural part of any black hole ability. Heck, technically everything increases its gravity by mass. Bowser inhaling things technically increases his gravity due to gaining mass. You are basically arguing that I need to list that physics applies.
No idea where that's coming from. Also, looking at the feat, can Bowser actually use that sealing in central park? According to what Toad says about the Sealing he used stars to create the pocket dimensions he sealed people in. He doesn't have those and in central park there wouldn't even be readily available paintings or anything.
Thing is, Kaido has no resistance against Wally. Not even against his radiation, which due to stats equal is dangerous now.
Yeah. You do. If you list a character at Class G that is assumed to be their limit. They could be a Black Hole the size of a universe and if they're listed at Class K that is their limit.
Well, DT, in stats equal, ALL stats are equal, this means AP, LS, Speed, Durability, Stamina, literally everything but flat out straight to the point Intelligence/skill.
I'm pretty sure he can
Oh Fabre sticks Bowser with the needle... and then does what? Bowser isn't slow on reacting after being hit, and Insecticide isn't lethal to humans, let alone 10 foot tall lizard things.
Wait a minute. This is speed equal and speed equal usually equalizes to the slower character.
So... is everybody immobile due to equalizing to Wally?
That would be hilarious to me honestly, but would also lead to kind of a third and more funny reason for Wally getting out of the tournamentWait a minute. This is speed equal and speed equal usually equalizes to the slower character.
So... is everybody immobile due to equalizing to Wally?
So every black hole creator in your opinion needs "up to infinite LS via black holes as the center has infinity gravity" added to their profile? (given that black hole creation says explicitly that black holes have that feature) A brave proposal. Please go ahead and make a CRT on the topic to see if that gets approved. If you do not, drop the point, as current practice is clearly the way the profile does it too.
That would imply that, as range is equal, Wally's durability negation from things coming into contact with his singularity in the center now also has equal range. Not all stats are equal, but base stats, which is explicitly what the OP says.
You sure?
People don't even notice when Fabre stabs them and his insecticide is lethal. So with Bowser having no resistance he's dead.
Not a godly hax at all. The pull is not lethal. Only touching Wally is. You can't honestly think Wally is overpowered in this tournament.
Straight up lie, there are references.
Stat equal, so irrelevant. If you have a problem with it do a CRT. Everything else is derailing this debate. Do not derail debates.
"This is what Black Holes do"
I'm asking for a comprehensive profile DT, not for you to list Class G and just assume that it being a Black Hole is sufficient proof that infinite LS is acclible despite not being stated on the profile's section for explaining how much it can lift/push/pull.
Which is only Several Centimeters in range... okay so both just sit around and let Kaido beat Fabre to death because Wally's max range is less then either one of their fingers and he doesn't have growing in size on his profile
Pretty sure, like I said "IIRC"
And who did Fabre stab that this happened to
Name a single character in this entire tournament that can interact with a Black Hole in order to win, and even then get past the infinite LS Black Hole in the first place.
Yes, references that do not point me in the direction of "why is this absorbing Plot Manipulation and Reality Warping". At all. I would like to, ya know read why such a massive claim as Plot Manipulation is there.
I prefer to be debating a complete profile, DT.
You are arguing against the practised standard of that being a thing that comes implicitly with black hole creation. What are arguing is not an issue with just this character, but every black hole creator. If you want to change the practiced standard make a CRT to change it. Arguing that it just doesn't apply for this thread alone is disingenuous.
I will quote you the black hole creation page.
It's explicitly a part of the ability that the tidal forces approach infinite towards the center. Again, if you think every black hole creator should have that added as a stat, instead of implicitly coming with the ability, you are arguing against the practised standard. Make a CRT to change the practised standard so that it is added to all profiles or accept that the ability works as stated on its ability page just like it's assumed for all other black hole profiles.
I assume range is equalized in some reasonable manner. Range equalization is always an issue.
Well, for the protocol, I officially question whether that is correct.
Other superhuman characters from his series... like, want me to look up which name they had?
It's only infinite LS in the center. You're the only one who wants to equalize it so weird.
Then look at the comic pages the references lead to?
I don't care what you prefer. Make a CRT if you think the profile needs change and don't derail the debate with your complaints. I prefer to debate changes to profiles in CRTs, as that's the only places changes are allowed to be made and where they are supposed to be debated.
This character is a Black Hole DT. You listed Class G as the sole LS instead of listing as something like "Infinite at Center, Class G at range" or something.
Yes, it comes with the ability, except, again, this character, Wally, is a Black Hole, you did not put the practised standard you preach on the dang profile.
And you're fair in doing so.
Yeah, actually.
If it is infinite in the center that is still an LS value to be equalized.
Ainz is not going to attempt to use an instant death spell on a sodding black hole, also he has no feats of interacting with a Black Hole.
That would require Hel to actually do so, and assuming that WQ can interact with a Black Hole.
has he ever shown to interact with a Black Hole in order to erase one?
why would she think he has a soul? And how would she interact with the Black Hole?
second verse, same as the first with Ainz.
Why would the portal BFR a black hole, let alone one that's just absorb it because, hello hello, it can absorb plot Manipulation
DT. Mate. I am not throwing money at the problem, and I'm not risking getting a Virus to go to onto some random website to do it either.
I would like to say something: you hold some of the highest authority on the entire wiki when it comes to profiles, your profiles should hold a high standard of quality, whatever way you choose to do them... and your reaction to your profile having guesswork on it is this.
We also add LS strength from abilities, such as "x via telekinesis". So no, if you think black hole LS needs a separate listing to clarify that black hole properties apply to it, then every other black hole creator would need the stat for LS via their black hole creation ability.
Weird, but ok.
Which, again, would be a weird as hell way to equalize it, as it effectively nerves his range to 0. It is the way to equalize it that is making the character function the least like it would in a regular battle.
I don't see a reason he wouldn't once he figures out it's sentient. And I don't see why his instant death would need feats against a living black hole in particular. It has already demonstrated killing things not conventionally alive.
She would and the WQ can, so...
You don't need specific feats to interact with black holes. The ability to erase its matter/energy is pretty much enough. So yes, Saiki has access to hax that can do that.
Because it's alive and because she can sense souls.
And similar answer. Vile can absorb souls / lifeforce in range of his technique to cause instant death. Wally is without a doubt in range of his technique.
Let's assume it couldn't. We are still talking about Rick. He would have 0 problem launching it into space or some other nonsense. If you seen the show, it's pretty clear that black hole is 0 challenge to the guy.
If you are not willing to look at the comics official and free website then that's your problem. I have no obligation to commit piracy for you.
Yes, my reaction is to remind you that you can do a CRT to express any concerns you have at any time, but that discussing it in a thread that is unrelated is derailing it. CRTs are the way to propose changes you desire to profiles for you as for anyone else.
How close do they start to each other? I would suggest just making all abilities have range equal to the starting range, maybe.
What do you guys think would be a good compromise?
This one, I mean.
I doubt it's enough of an amp to oneshot someone with priorly equal stats in all honesty. Or blitz for that matter. From what I remember of the Kaido fights there were no feats of that. Gear 5 Luffy and maybe Big Mom were pretty much the only ones that were stat wise truly equal to him to begin with IMO.
I'm fairly sure Bowser isn't quite consistent for what he can be beaten by. I can see him surviving, but on the other hand can he be K.O.ed by just getting hit and stuff.
Haki is a pretty major amp honestly? But It doesn't quite matter if he one-shots him outright, it's going to do significant damage.
Base Luffy, who is relative in speed to Hybrid Kaido, was unable to fully evade base Thunder Bagua despite having future sight that allowed him to read several seconds into the future. Trafalgar Law someone who can react to both Hybrid Kaido and Big Mom was also completely blitzed (second image)
Not really. As mentioned characters relative to Kaido haven't been able to fully defend themselves against it. Fabre, with no prior knowledge or predictions, is just gonna get hit.
If Kaido can't reach him with his club he could easily just nuke him, and the entire general area for that matter, with a Bolo Breath just by going into Hybrid. Or simply swing his club and launch an equally powerful shockwave with stuff like "Kongo Kabura". He has ways to fairly easily keep the pressure up even if his movements are restricted.
I mean true he isn't consistent over his dozens of appearances ig. It could incap him for a bit?
Well, you made me look it up.
Stat equal a big AoE attack won't deal enough damage to really change anything. Remember that explosions decrease in power with the square of the distance.
Apparently, he can indeed choose what to pull in and what not, yes.
Base Luffy had the advantage of being able to somewhat react to it though with his future sight, it was only a glancing blow on his end. While Fabre would be forced to take it head-on.
Bolo Breath is his starting move in Dragon Form. I assumed here he'd start in base, in which case he'd more than likely try any of his club-based moves. Notice that the moment he got into base form, his FIRST attack against Luffy was Thunder Bagua for the one shot. it's his go-to move when he wants to take out an opponent quickly, which he'd definitely want to do when facing an invisible opponent.
It's not really the force of the explosion that's the main factor here, truthfully. It's the HEAT.
ooooh, alright then.
Is it actually shown to be a glancing blow?
No, in chapter 1000 in base form his first move was a regular swing of his club. He only used Thunder Bagua in chapter 1001 after Luffy hit him once with Gear Third Red Rock, damaging him.
The heat also decreases with the square (if not cube) of the distance.
Ah, yes, the good old heat is separate of durability argument.
Kaido explicitly notes it didn't hit him head-on.
Was referring to his initial encounter with Luffy. Where, the moment he went into base form, his starting move was indeed immediately slugging him with Thunder Bagua. He basically used it the moment he decided to take the fight seriously. Which is...pretty much what he did on the rooftop too. That no-named club-swing wasn't portrayed as him taking Luffy particularly seriously.
...why would heat not be separate from durability? It's not just force alone, Fabre, someone WITHOUT any form of heat resistance, would still be suffering the negative impacts of being exposed to absurdly high temperatures. That's not even factoring in the fact that the needle he's carrying, assuming it's on his person, would also be exposed to the heat. Which would likely melt the material outright, if not evaporate the insecticide within.
I mean if Kaido notices some invisible person sneaking around the battlefield, I doubt he'd just...leave him alone. Why would he decide not to intercept a clear threat sneaking past him?
Stat equal. The Hawking radiation is equalized to be equal in power to the other characters, so it is useful now.
I think that might be an issue of different translations. In the one I am using he just says "You're putting up a decent fight this time around" unless I'm missing some passage.
Well, this fight isn't bloodlusted, so what makes you think he would take Fabre any more seriously?
Because a) fiction usually portrays it as such and b) heat resistance is dependent on the strength of molecular bounds, just like impact resistance. It's not equal, due to factors like arrangement, but you also can't have a material with the molecular binding strength of wax endure a 7-B attack, regardless of which molecular structure it has. There is a limit on how big the gap can be.
Because a much clearer and for him vastly more threatening threat is currently trying to absorb him and is bombing him with radiation.
