• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

When The Discussion Cries - New Forum

Dinoanime7 said:
Question shouldn’t Featherine’s true form intelligence be Omniscient? I remember there’s a statement in Memoirs of the ΛΔ, that Lamb referred to them as “omniscient and almighty” unless that’s a mistranslation.
Click to expand...
its not a mistranslation. In the raws it says:
運命を生み出すのが、 神々。 そして造物主。 全知全能で、全てを 生み出す。
Raw Scan Here.
Click to expand...
The kanji “全知” directly refers to omniscience. In any case, iirc the reason why we had her at Nigh-Omniscient was because of our “The Creator” page having omniscience, and feath inherently needing to scale below that. She should be omniscient now though, yes.
 
Ovy7 said:
Still disagree with her being a Creator
Click to expand...
Why?
catzlaflame said:
its not a mistranslation. In the raws it says:

The kanji “全知” directly refers to omniscience. In any case, iirc the reason why we had her at Nigh-Omniscient was because of our “The Creator” page having omniscience, and feath inherently needing to scale below that. She should be omniscient now though, yes.
Click to expand...
I’ll make a thread later today then.
 
Ovy7 said:
Yes, Last Note specifies that she's the closest Witch to Creator lvl, meaning that she ain't one.
Click to expand...

image0.jpg

This?
 
That's not related to the Creators stuff, she still transcends the entirety of the Witch Domain and its structure is just fiction to her
 
Guardian_Doge said:
Because just like the other witches in their conceptual form exist throughout everything as what they embody.
Click to expand...
I don't understand how an explanation like this can be omnipresent. What's the difference between this and regular Ae1?
(Madoka also has an explanation in her profile like this???)

Anyone can give an in-depth explanation of this?

*Edit 1 as 2nd question
I also wanna know why Battler's speed in Ep5 from this feat is Immeasurable? How is it related to time? Isn't it infinite?

*Edit 2 as 3rd question
Tbh, I don't understand why Meta being speed is Immeasurable (maybe I don't know where an proper explanation or scan is in the thread) so my question

"As you get closer to the world of gods, the concept of time becomes increasingly vague. Six years can become a thousand, and a thousand years can be nothing more than a quick nap. One can fit an eternity long enough to be deserving of the title 'one hundred year old witch' in a mere two weeks..."

(imo) getting closer to the world of gods = higher layer/dimension closer to the creator domain that makes each layer also has time itself and a character is still bounded by the time on current layer.
it means they aren't transcended the time of the current layer and shouldn't get Immeasurable speed?
 
Last edited:
@Nekobako
I don't understand how an explanation like this can be omnipresent.
Click to expand...

Territory Lords' conceptual forms exist everywhere in their territories, while Voyagers' conceptual forms exist everywhere in the entire world.

*Edit 1 as 2nd question
I also wanna know why Battler's speed in Ep5 from this feat is Immeasurable? How is it related to time? Isn't it infinite?
Click to expand...

*Edit 2 as 3rd question
Tbh, I don't understand why Meta being speed is Immeasurable (maybe I don't know where an proper explanation or scan is in the thread) so my question
Click to expand...

The link no longer works, but I know which scene it is. To answer your question, the immeasurable speed of Umineko's characters comes not from this scene but from the transcendence of the upper layers over the lower ones. Each kakera contains not only space but also the time of the lower world, and from outside a kakera you can see time in a non-linear way.

(imo) getting closer to the world of gods = higher layer/dimension closer to the creator domain that makes each layer also has time itself and a character is still bounded by the time on current layer.
it means they aren't transcended the time of the current layer and shouldn't get Immeasurable speed?
Click to expand...

A character can have immeasurable speed even if they don't transcend the time of their own higher layer, we have characters like the Beyonders who are directly described as temporally linear on their own plane but are still faster than characters who have immeasurable speed on the lower plane.
 
EndlessWords said:
A character can have immeasurable speed even if they don't transcend the time of their own higher layer, we have characters like the Beyonders who are directly described as temporally linear on their own plane but are still faster than characters who have immeasurable speed on the lower plane.
Click to expand...
Can I say that a character in higher dimension/ladder/layer should be faster than the lower one as Immeasurable above baseline and above based on the number of ladder?
(According to the statement about the concept of time which I sent before)

Because a witch in higher ladder also view the lower ladder as a Fragment.
 
Last edited:
Nekobako said:
Can I say that a character in higher dimension/ladder/layer should be faster than the lower one as Immeasurable above baseline and above based on the number of ladder?
(According to the statement about the concept of time which I sent before)

Because a witch in higher ladder also view the lower ladder as a Fragment.
Click to expand...

I think so, and I think the wiki considers it so too.

Time in a kakera seems fictitious to a being outside the kakera, for example we see Lambdadelta in episode 5 being able to manipulate the kakera containing the lower world to replay her events from the beginning, of course she manipulates the kakera to do so but this scene proves that each higher layer has a spatial but also a temporal transcendence over each lower layer, time passing linearly is in fact just an illusion for beings on the higher planes.

Moreover, it seems to me that Bernkastel saw Willard as a completely immobile chess piece from his higher dimension, even though Willard is fast enough to render the concept of distance meaningless on his own layer.
 
I wonder why Red Truth is Cm1

From the profile
Destroying the concept of a hidden door (type 3 concept) is just Cm3?

(Because destroying the concept of hidden door makes all human cannot recognize the existence of hidden door anymore)
 
Nekobako said:
I wonder why Red Truth is Cm1
Click to expand...
Cause it wasn't changed since 2021.

Nekobako said:
From the profile
Destroying the concept of a hidden door (type 3 concept) is just Cm3?

(Because destroying the concept of hidden door makes all human cannot recognize the existence of hidden door anymore)
Click to expand...
Pretty sure that's CM 2, not 3. Might even qualify for CM 1, but not 100% sure.

It also didn't make humans any longer recognize the existence of hidden doors (and the other concepts Dlanor destroyed), but wholly removed those from the past, present, and future of that universe as a concept. Humans in that universe (Kakera) would never be able to create hidden doors or other devices like that because that concept doesn't even exist in the first place.
 
Ovy7 said:
Cause it wasn't changed since 2021.


Pretty sure that's CM 2, not 3. Might even qualify for CM 1, but not 100% sure.

It also didn't make humans any longer recognize the existence of hidden doors (and the other concepts Dlanor destroyed), but wholly removed those from the past, present, and future of that universe as a concept. Humans in that universe (Kakera) would never be able to create hidden doors or other devices like that because that concept doesn't even exist in the first place.
Click to expand...
Ok, i just wonder how it affects to reality
but I still have more question about that

iirc, Ep5 Gameboard was created based on Mystery genre and Knox's Decalogue.
It means there is no hidden door and passage (as an object) at the beginning of the game???
because if they exist, Red Truth for denying hidden door cannot be used.


if yes, how type 2 concept can exist without the object of concept?

*(Cm2/Concept type 2 manipulation but dependent concept needs an object/Reality to exist while there is no any hidden door in the gameboard because of the setting of the gameboard so the Red Truth is able to deny the existence of hidden door due to the setting. If affecting the concept of hidden door also affect the reality without the existence of reality, It's should be independent concept/Cm1 instead????)
 
Last edited:
Ovy7 said:
so didn't make humans any longer recognize the existence of hidden doors (and the other concepts Dlanor destroyed), but wholly removed those from the past, present, and future of that universe as a concept. Humans in that universe (Kakera) would never be able to create hidden doors or other devices like that because that concept doesn't even exist in the first place.
Click to expand...
Wait, It didn't only the present and future???


(1) Therefore, from now until the end of time, I will not allow for such technology to EXIST. It is not PERMITTED.

(2) Because denials of concepts conform to verdict procedures dictated by the Great Court, all future concepts that disobey them will be denied immediately.
 
I have a question

Why fantasy creatures (as a piece) in a gameboard don't have Nep1 instead of Incorporeality since they never exist in a first place?

That's why Red Truth is able to deny them (in Ep3) because Red Truth can't be used to deny them if they are really exist.

Similar to the hidden door in the gameboard as an object is nonexistent while the concept of it exists.

//In short, fantasy creatures need to be nonexistent as a condition to use the Red Truth to deny them.
 
Last edited:
What do you guys think about this?
vsbattles.com

On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System

Or, "Why did I make this system? Am I stupid?" This thread has certainly been a long time coming. And though its placement in the general discussion board makes this clear already, it is probably best that I say it explicitly: I don't actually have any interest in bringing any changes to the...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Last edited:
Railgun said:
What do you guys think about this?
vsbattles.com

On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System

Or, "Why did I make this system? Am I stupid?" This thread has certainly been a long time coming. And though its placement in the general discussion board makes this clear already, it is probably best that I say it explicitly: I don't actually have any interest in bringing any changes to the...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Click to expand...
I agree, and... Tier 0 Umineko?
 
Well, r>f is gonna become 1A, so 1A Human Domain because it has r>f layers
 
Ovy7 said:
Well, r>f is gonna become 1A, so 1A Human Domain because it has r>f layers
Click to expand...
I've seen a few scans from Higurashi Mei. In these scans, it was mentioned that the lower worlds were false and the upper worlds were real. Do you think we should use these scans as additional evidence?
 
Yeah, it should completely support it

Btw, does anyone know any good instant-screen translator? I've wanted to play Higurashi Mei for so long but can't because I don't know japanese
 
Not all R>F layers will qualify for 1-A. In the worst case, the entire cosmology could peak at High 1-B.
But if both hierarchies R>F are accepted, then the cosmology will be High 1-A/0. So prepare the dice.
 
Ovy7 said:
Well, r>f is gonna become 1A, so 1A Human Domain because it has r>f layers
Click to expand...
Could it be argued Meta-World is High 1-A due to the fact all Human Domain is equally fictional to it, so it is beyond the qualitative superiority of R>F the same way R>F is beyond quantitative superiority?
 
Lynieryz said:
I only remember that it was in the manga, I don't remember the chapter.
Click to expand...
I have some knowledge about the manga and I don't remember it, I only remember that Beatrice's Catbox generates infinite worlds and that Bernkastel's Catbox is large enough to contain Beatrice's Catbox :unsure:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Gonzalo
Beatrice minor addition
Replies
2
Views
899
Gonzalo
Gonzalo
AizenSosuke
07th expansion Nep
Replies
12
Views
3K
KntolRicat
KntolRicat
07th Expansion
Replies
35
Views
4K
Iiliminal
Iiliminal
Pepsiman25th
  • Locked
07th Discussion Thread
Replies
2
Views
2K
Pepsiman25th
Pepsiman25th
Nekobako
Umineko Witch domain revision
Replies
14
Views
4K
AKUTO123
AKUTO123
Back
Top