Shoto (MHA) vs Natsu (Fairy Tail)

[TheRustyOne]

Finally biting the bullet on this, MHA vs Fairy Tail.

This is X791 Natsu in Black Flame Dragon Mode and Final War Arc Shoto.

Shoto is 139.3 Gigatons, higher with Flashfire Fist and Flashfreeze Heatwave

Natsu is 129.6 Gigatons

Speed is Equalized.

Starting Range is 50 meters.

Who wins?

Shoto: (0)

Natsu: (0)

 

[Kingofwolves999]

This depends on how hot Natsu’s fire is in this key and whether Shoto’s Phosphor counts as fire.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I don't know how hot Natsu's fire is here, his feats on the page only talk about burning/melting metal.

I already checked that his vaporizing sand feat comes from a future key than the one I'm using here.

I'm uncertain how Natsu's ability would work against Shoto's cold fire thing. Which is kind of why I made this in the first place, I'm curious to see the opinions on it.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I think both of their flames scale to vaporising shit at this point since a weaker key than this Natsu already does that back in Tenrou before the first timeskip.

Anyway, BFDM let’s Natsu just absorb Shoto’s flames like Eclipse Leo was doing to Natsu and amping from it or Natsu just eats the flames himself and adds it to his own AP.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I think both of their flames scale to vaporising shit at this point since a weaker key than this Natsu already does that back in Tenrou before the first timeskip.

Anyway, BFDM let’s Natsu just absorb Shoto’s flames like Eclipse Leo was doing to Natsu and amping from it or Natsu just eats the flames himself and adds it to his own AP.

If they scale around the same then Shoto’s cold manip is superior, as Phosphor is designed to negate heat from Dabi, which is FAR stronger than his own Flashfire Fist attacks. So his Phosphor would legit overpower Natsu’s flames.

And that’s the question: does Shoto’s phosphor count as fire in the first place? It’s a strange mix of his hot and cold through his heart that produces a “cold fire” that has no heat and instead negates it.

His normal fire gets eaten for sure but he’ll just not use it then. His ice moves are free spam though.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Anyway, BFDM let’s Natsu just absorb Shoto’s flames like Eclipse Leo was doing to Natsu and amping from it or Natsu just eats the flames himself and adds it to his own AP.

Shoto isn't going to use his fire against someone who's going to shoot out massive bouts of fire. Since it'll be pretty obvious at that point that Natsu is highly resistant.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Shoto isn't going to use his fire against someone who's going to shoot out massive bouts of fire.

He did do that against Dabi but that was more a family thing so true.

He’s more likely to use massive ice attacks until he realizes Natsu has heat on par with him, and then he whips out Phosphor and starts blasting everything in a several kilometer radius.

I just need to know if Phosphor counts as fire at all considering it ACTS like fire but is actually just weird flowing cold.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

If they scale around the same then Shoto’s cold manip is superior, as Phosphor is designed to negate heat from Dabi, which is FAR stronger than his own Flashfire Fist attacks. So his Phosphor would legit overpower Natsu’s flames.

And that’s the question: does Shoto’s phosphor count as fire in the first place? It’s a strange mix of his hot and cold through his heart that produces a “cold fire” that has no heat and instead negates it.

His normal fire gets eaten for sure but he’ll just not use it then. His ice moves are free spam though.

Dunno if Phosphor would work. It might be able to negate Natsu’s own flames but the Black part of BFDM is Eclipse Leo’s Dark Regulus which is darkness manip and not actual fire. Anything that produces light is able to be absorbed by it so Phosphor should just get negged as a result.

How cold is Shoto’s ice?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Dunno if Phosphor would work. It might be able to negate Natsu’s own flames but the Black part of BFDM is Eclipse Leo’s Dark Regulus which is darkness manip and not actual fire. Anything that produces light is able to be absorbed by it so Phosphor should just get negged as a result.

How cold is Shoto’s ice?

I don’t see that on his profile? Idk if that’s for Dark Regulus but does Natsu have that too?

His base cold can freeze to the bone and shatter limbs in seconds. His actual Phosphor cold is enough to Flashfreeze several thousand degrees Celsius temperatures. With it he completely negged a level of heat that was going to explode and vaporize everything in a 5km radius (albeit with a little help), from Dabi, who was getting hotter and hotter every second after ALREADY negating the cold of his previous Phosphor.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

How hot are Natsu’s flames in this key?

 

[Maitreya12]

How hot are Natsu’s flames in this key?

I’m pretty sure one of his earlier feats in the series is just straight up melting glass lol

which after a quick google search comes out to at least 1500-1700C

So that’s a starting base I suppose.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I’m pretty sure one of his earlier feats in the series is just straight up melting glass lol

which after a quick google search comes out to at least 1500-1700C

So that’s a starting base I suppose.

Endeavor did that same feat with his Flashfire Fist (though in the manga he actually turned the glass to ash which I dont think is even possible). It wasn’t even a named Flashfire Fist move, he just flexed and did that.

Shoto is equal to Endeavor with Flashfire Fist moves, and then Dabi (who was a literal 13 year old with barely any training or understanding) could reach temperature exceeding 2000 degrees Celsius. So he then trains and amps his firepower for 10+ years, on top of gaining Flashfire Fist so his flames are even hotter. Shoto in this key has grown strong enough to clash with Dabi’s fire equally, but is overwhelmed by his Flashfire Fist.

Shoto’s Phosphor, however, negs Dabi’s level of heat easily, even after Dabi amps further with rage and even copies Shoto’s Phosphor technique, growing in heat so much that he’s going to literally explode.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Found some feats of my own.

Melting a metal axe with just his body heat, appears to turn those stones into ash, and melting metal railroad tracks from due to his rage.

He also super heated these metal bars, though this one isn't as impressive.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I don’t see that on his profile? Idk if that’s for Dark Regulus but does Natsu have that too?

Yeah. Natsu ate Dark Regulus and added it to his own flames like Laxus’ lightning and LFDM.

From Natsu’s profile

Darkness Manipulation(Via Black Fire Dragon Mode), Status Effect Inducement (Via Black Fire Dragon Mode. Long exposure to Dark Regulus can cause someone to develop a fever that weakens them)

From Loke/Leo’s profile

Absorption (His Dark Regulus is capable of absorbing all light. All Mages passively absorb Ethernano from the atmosphere to regenerate their Magic Power)

My only guess for why the absorption for BFDM isn’t on Natsu’s profile is cuz it is technically already accounted for earlier in the profile where he can absorb fire, lightning, ethernano, all of the elements that make up Etherion etc.

His base cold can freeze to the bone and shatter limbs in seconds. His actual Phosphor cold is enough to Flashfreeze several thousand degrees Celsius temperatures. With it he completely negged a level of heat that was going to explode and vaporize everything in a 5km radius (albeit with a little help), from Dabi, who was getting hotter and hotter every second after ALREADY negating the cold of his previous Phosphor.

BFDM > Base Second Origin >>> Key of Starry Heavens > X784 Zancrow = vaporising rock = 3000 C

For cold resistance, this Natsu is chilling in the middle of a Mt. Hakobe blizzard which is cold enough to the point of his flames being incapable of melting snow right next to it or being in direct contact with Natsu’s body.

Happy also considers these flames (while nerfed by the cold) hot even though not long after this, he is in the centre of Jackal’s explosion and comes back just fine beyond fuzzy hair and some soot. Temperatures at the centre of explosions seem to be around 3000 K according to a quick search.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Yeah. Natsu ate Dark Regulus and added it to his own flames like Laxus’ lightning and LFDM.

From Natsu’s profile


From Loke/Leo’s profile


My only guess for why the absorption for BFDM isn’t on Natsu’s profile is cuz it is technically already accounted for earlier in the profile where he can absorb fire, lightning, ethernano, all of the elements that make up Etherion etc.

BFDM > Base Second Origin >>> Key of Starry Heavens > X784 Zancrow = vaporising rock = 3000 C

For cold resistance, this Natsu is chilling in the middle of a Mt. Hakobe blizzard which is cold enough to the point of his flames being incapable of melting snow right next to it or being in direct contact with Natsu’s body.

Happy also considers these flames (while nerfed by the cold) hot even though not long after this, he is in the centre of Jackal’s explosion and comes back just fine beyond fuzzy hair and some soot. Temperatures at the centre of explosions seem to be around 3000 K according to a quick search.

I mean, that just says it absorbs light? That doesn’t mean he could just absorb a Kamehameha because he can suck up light. The actual attacks should not be affected unless Shoto’s Phosphor is purely light based, which it isn’t, it just kinda gives off pale light. So a description like “capable of absorbing light” should not mean “anything that produces light gets immediately negged.” I’m gonna need more context on what it actually does.

Where did vaporizing rock come from? And if that’s how hot it is, it’s really not impressive. Dabi was going to burn away, to literal nothing, 5km worth of area that included rocks, but Shoto shut him down. Like I said, baby Dabi was already throwing around 2000 degrees Celsius without any flashfire fist.

Also I completely forgot Dabi’s second best temp feat: he turned Best Jeanist’s carbon fiber wires to ash.

Shoto’s Final Phosphor > Dabi right before he goes Supernova (temperature VASTLY increasing every single second until he would explode) >>>Dabi’s Initial Phosphor > Shoto’s Phosphor > Named Flashfire Fist Moves > Dabi’s Flashfire Fist Aura = vaporized/turned to ash Carbon Fiber = 4000 degrees Celsius.

There’s also Endeavor’s Prominence Burn feat where he destroyed superheated Plasma clones, with Plasma reaching temperatures of 6000 degrees Celsius. Which Dabi would massively scale over.

IDK what explosion you’re seeing that is 3000K at the epicenter, explosions vary a ton. And 3000 Kelvin isn’t even impressive, that’s like less than 3000 celsius

 

[Maitreya12]

Well I mean…Natus’s flames are literally charged with lightning which is 20,000 degrees Celsius so I’m pretty sure he’s gonna have the temperature advantage regardless.

Like if Natsu can eat something as hot as lightning Dabi’s flames aren’t gonna be too special in comparison.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Well I mean…Natus’s flames are literally charged with lightning which is 20,000 degrees Celsius so I’m pretty sure he’s gonna have the temperature advantage regardless.

Like if Natsu can eat something as hot as lightning Dabi’s flames aren’t gonna be too special in comparison.

Well thanks for the reminder, Dabi could slightly burn Deku. Deku tanked a lightning bolt while in the air with nothing grounding him (hence his electricity resistance) with no burns on his skin. So Dabi has scaling to lightning too, just weaker, which doesn’t matter cause he got massive temperature buffs every second after getting Phosphor + his rage amps.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Well I mean…Natus’s flames are literally charged with lightning which is 20,000 degrees Celsius so I’m pretty sure he’s gonna have the temperature advantage regardless.

I don't know if his flames are being charged by lightning in this key. This is his Black Flame Dragon Mode. I admit that I could be wrong here.

Izuku was able to withstand a cloud to ground lightning strike for several seconds while in the air. Dabi's flames are hot enough to hurt him despite not directly hitting him with a blast, though Izuku already had heavy injuries at that point. Not certain how much this helps, but I believe it could be something.

Edit: Slightly ninja'd.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Deku was similarly hurt when he got hit with lightning, except the lightning didn’t knock him unconscious. He was pierced through the chest with lasers, had multiple broken bones (not self-inflicted that time) and couldn’t even move anymore, so pretty similar conditions.

Dabi’s heat alone KO’d him while the force and heat of the lightning bolt didn’t. This is also Dabi before he unlocks Phosphor + his rage amps + his self-destruction move which Shoto negged.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I’m actually curious if Dabi’s self-destruction temperature could be calced? Cause that would be the level of Shoto’s Phosphor since he blasted him right when he was about to go boom. His family helped cool Dabi down a bit, but they only slowed the rate of it down, he was still increasing in heat.

 

[Zackra1799]

As far as this natsu's temp and heat resistance is concerned, a weaker natsu was able to ride on the back of atlas flames, who's body is made of flames that casually burned away laxus's lightning, without even breaking a sweat and was completely unaffected by the heat. Natsu also wasn't using his flames of emotion at the time which also drastically increases his flames temp and power.

 

[Maitreya12]

Well thanks for the reminder, Dabi could slightly burn Deku. Deku tanked a lightning bolt while in the air with nothing grounding him (hence his electricity resistance) with no burns on his skin. So Dabi has scaling to lightning too, just weaker, which doesn’t matter cause he got massive temperature buffs every second after getting Phosphor + his rage amps.

Well couple differences here, one is that Deku was nearly knocked out from said lightning bolt, while Natsu eats the lightning itself. Meaning something as hot as Dabi’s or Endeavor’s flames wouldn’t hurt Natsu at all while Natsu’s flames would hurt Shoto.

Natsu also gets rage and heat amps as well for his flames.

 

[Maitreya12]

Dabi’s heat alone KO’d him while the force and heat of the lightning bolt didn’t. This is also Dabi before he unlocks Phosphor + his rage amps + his self-destruction move which Shoto negged.

You’re kind of leaving out the context that Deku was massively injured when he faced Dabi already and he wasn’t even immediately knocked out by him either. Same with Nine after getting hit with the lightning all he could do was crawl.

 

[Nierre]

Following

 

[TheRustyOne]

I never once thought Todoroki would be immune to Natsu's fire.

But shouldn't his normal heat resistance + ice + Phosphor make it so he can take/defend from his fire attacks?

However, the big question is how Natsu reacts to Phosphor. This move is where Shoto circulates both halves of his Quirk throughout his body, merging the fire and ice into one ability. He creates a "fire" that doesn't burn but instead nullifies fire/heat and freezes at the same time.

I don't believe Shoto's Phosphor would negate Natsu's fire by 100% or anything, but it should lower the heat of his flames by a good amount. Enough for his natural heat resistance to withstand his blast without instantly melting his skin off or whatever. Can increase his chances even more with a shield of ice as well.

This also isn't taking into account the physical force that both of their attacks possess. Shoto isn't going to use normal fire against Natsu, but his Phosphor and ice attacks are still going to hit with 139 Gigatons of force, which is physical damage. There's also the speed boost Shoto gets from propelling himself as well.

Both of them have some scaling to lightning temperatures, though Natsu's is higher. But I don't see anything to suggest one shotting levels of heat or something.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I mean, that just says it absorbs light? That doesn’t mean he could just absorb a Kamehameha because he can suck up light. The actual attacks should not be affected unless Shoto’s Phosphor is purely light based, which it isn’t, it just kinda gives off pale light. So a description like “capable of absorbing light” should not mean “anything that produces light gets immediately negged.” I’m gonna need more context on what it actually does.

Dark Regulus is expanded upon on Loke’s page.

Dark Regulus has shown the capability to absorb "light", such as Natsu's flames, in order to nullify his foe's attacks while using the absorbed Magic for himself.

Where did vaporizing rock come from? And if that’s how hot it is, it’s really not impressive. Dabi was going to burn away, to literal nothing, 5km worth of area that included rocks, but Shoto shut him down. Like I said, baby Dabi was already throwing around 2000 degrees Celsius without any flashfire fist.

From Zancrow who is far weaker than Natsu at this point. That’s not even Zancrow’s best heat scaling tbh. More magic = higher temperature, and Natsu’s base at this point = Franmalth + Hades + LFDM > Initial LFDM > Tenrou Laxus > pre-SO LFDM > FDGM Natsu > Zancrow who could burn Tenrou Natsu when a weaker Natsu wasn’t burned by lightning from Fantasia Laxus = lightning temperature.

Also I completely forgot Dabi’s second best temp feat: he turned Best Jeanist’s carbon fiber wires to ash.

I … do not know what temp that is.

Shoto’s Final Phosphor > Dabi right before he goes Supernova (temperature VASTLY increasing every single second until he would explode) >>>Dabi’s Initial Phosphor > Shoto’s Phosphor > Named Flashfire Fist Moves > Dabi’s Flashfire Fist Aura = vaporized/turned to ash Carbon Fiber = 4000 degrees Celsius.

That’s nice? Unless you are arguing Shoto can bypass Natsu’s resistance, I don’t see the point in this. Besides, Dark Regulus just absorbs Phosphor and his flames anyway.

There’s also Endeavor’s Prominence Burn feat where he destroyed superheated Plasma clones, with Plasma reaching temperatures of 6000 degrees Celsius. Which Dabi would massively scale over.

Zancrow’s heat > early Natsu’s heat resist > lightning temperatures

IDK what explosion you’re seeing that is 3000K at the epicenter, explosions vary a ton.

This has 4 out of 5 recorded explosion temps at just over 3000 K.

And 3000 Kelvin isn’t even impressive, that’s like less than 3000 celsius

The point was that Natsu’s flames being nerfed to the point of being unable to melt snow is still casually > something that is > the highest temp presented for Shoto at that point in the thread.

 

[TheRustyOne]

The point was that Natsu’s flames being nerfed to the point of being unable to melt snow is still casually > something that is > the highest temp presented for Shoto at that point in the thread.

Out of context this sounds really funny to me. Not even snow melting level, that's fire colder than 1 degrees Celsius.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Out of context this sounds really funny to me. Not even snow melting level, that's fire colder than 1 degrees Celsius.

Man purposely ignored the “nerfed” part. Reading comprehension like that will have people mistake you for a Bleach fan

 

[TheRustyOne]

I was just joking... I found the sentence funny out of context from what you were talking about. I'm sorry for making you think otherwise, that wasn't my intention.

IDK what I'm suppose to do at this point, I'll just stop trying to make jokes. I hope I didn't annoy you.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Hmmm … not sure if this is another joke in and of itself but I was just memeing around myself lol.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Hmmm … not sure if this is another joke in and of itself but I was just memeing around myself lol.

How else am I suppose to respond at the thought of being mistaken for a bleach fan?

Okay that's enough derailing from my end, sorry for that, seriously.

 

[Kaio1277999]

Why RustyOne ? Why you did this to my boy Shoto ?

 

[Eseseso]

Well, Natsu eats fire, negating 1/2 of Shoto's arsenal, and he has experience with very skilled ice users such as Gray the Stripper.

Not voting, just saying.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Snip

Shoto isn't going to use fire in the first place against someone who's blasting it out like that. He always starts with ice and will quickly see Natsu's fire resistance.

Grey and Shoto fight with ice completely differently, so beyond the ice/cold resistance, that experience won't help all that much. Not that Natsu needs it in this fight.

Also I just realized that Natsu's flames will probably heat up Shoto's body, which means he can use more ice than normal without worrying about frostbite.

Though the big question is how Natsu interacts with Phosphor. The answer to this will give me an idea on how this fight will go down.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Natsu eats or resists everything Shoto has

Then wrecks him with far superior CQC

 

[SuperStar]

What about Phosphor?

 

[speedster352]

Wouldn't cold fire counter Natsu?

 

[Eseseso]

Why not just use X791 End of Tartaros Natsu?

That way Natsu can actually amp himself like Shoto can, making this fairer.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Natsu eats or resists everything Shoto has

Then wrecks him with far superior CQC

Can he eat Phosphor?

I don't think he can eat ice, and Shoto is a ranged fighter.

End of Tartaros Arc Natsu is even stronger and has a 4X AP and Speed amp. I don't see how Shoto stands any chance in that case.

Assuming he stands one now.

 

[Zackra1799]

How long can Shoto maintain Phosphor? Because without it I don't see a way for Shoto to put Natsu down, but even with Natsu's fire having reduced potency due to it he's still a really good h2h fighter and can use his fire in other ways such as boosters on the back of his limbs to enhance his physicals and has the stamina and willpower to last a long ass time, especially when he resists most of their kit.