Add a Dimensionality section to profiles.

[ImmortalDread]

Tier 1-B is primarily concerned with factors other than AP and durability. When discussing objects, we use tiering for better communication. For instance, we might say, "This character has 1-B HDE," but that doesn't imply a reference to AP.

 

[Greenshifter]

Yeah I'm aware of the advocacy for that, I just personally disagree with it.

Which do you think looks clearer of the 2?

 

[Deagonx]

Tier 1-B is primarily concerned with factors other than AP and durability

What? Can you show me a character that is Tier 1-B that has neither "Hyperverse level" AP or durability?

Which do you think looks clearer of the 2?

I don't think "clearness" is the foremost concern here. Any ability could be argued to be "clearer" if positioned more predominantly or as an independent stat, but that does not mean they should be. I am saying I do not believe dimensionality is significant enough to list as a stat rather than include in HDE description or AP/Dura

 

[Greenshifter]

I don't think "clearness" is the foremost concern here. Any ability could be argued to be "clearer" if positioned more predominantly or as an independent stat, but that does not mean they should be. I am saying I do not believe dimensionality is significant enough to list as a stat rather than include in HDE description or AP/Dura

Fair.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

What? Can you show me a character that is Tier 1-B that has neither "Hyperverse level" AP or durability?

Piece Rika can timeloop from up to a 1-B level due to a higher dimensional version of herself/hanyuu's powers
Immortality (Type 6, 8 and 9. Upon death, Hanyuu sends Rika's soul back in time to another Kakera/World, taking over another Rika. The death of her piece does not affect her Higher World form),

 

[Sisyphusx]

Imo we should remove the whole HDE stuff and add character's dimensionality instead in the format OP suggested (with maybe some changes)


Btw If this gets put in the AP section as per DT's suggestion then how would it be worded, can anyone give an example?

 

[Deagonx]

Piece Rika can timeloop from up to a 1-B level due to a higher dimensional version of herself/hanyuu's powers
Immortality (Type 6, 8 and 9. Upon death, Hanyuu sends Rika's soul back in time to another Kakera/World, taking over another Rika. The death of her piece does not affect her Higher World form),

Uh... but:

Can you show me a character that is Tier 1-B that has neither "Hyperverse level" AP or durability?

Rika:
AP: Complex Multiverse level (snip), likely Hyperverse level (snip)
Dura: Complex Multiverse level , likely Hyperverse level (She dwarfs Kakeras to the point they are tiny objects or pieces to her).

She has "likely hyperverse" AP and Dura.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Uh... but:

Can you show me a character that is Tier 1-B that has neither "Hyperverse level" AP or durability?

Rika:
AP: Complex Multiverse level (snip), likely Hyperverse level (snip)
Dura: Complex Multiverse level , likely Hyperverse level (She dwarfs Kakeras to the point they are tiny objects or pieces to her).

She has "likely hyperverse" AP and Dura.

Her piece self lacks 1-B ap or durability

 

[Greenshifter]

1-B is just used as a term for how big something is even when it shouldn't, this is just people being lazy. Dread argued that the OP was also lazy.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Uh... but:

Can you show me a character that is Tier 1-B that has neither "Hyperverse level" AP or durability?

Re-read my sentence. Splitting my sentence and not addressing the second that is related to first is not going to help.

And to answer your question, a character can be HDE 1-B while his AP is different. What?

 

[Deagonx]

Re-read my sentence. Splitting my sentence and not addressing the second that is related to first is not going to help.

I was replying to a different user.

And to answer your question, a character can be HDE 1-B while his AP is different. What?

But then his HDE wouldn't be "1-B" it would be (x dimensions) which isn't related to AP. So you could just list that in his HDE justification.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Deagonx idk if you are trying to be serious or not but here in the community we tend to use "tiers" to describe dimensions in the conversation

So when I say "high 1-B HDE" I meant infinite higher dimensional character.

Also, no since dimensionality is not solely focused on the HDE. I mentioned other factors.

They are not entirely "objective" but since the section can be arbitrary, we can add relevant factors to it and create guidelines for it.

I don't see any issue for not listing it. It is the same reasons why we moved keys up even though if I took your perspective, down or up would not matter.

 

[Deagonx]

I don't see any issue for not listing it

Okay, and I personally prefer to either list it in AP/Dura or under HDE.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I won't argue against your personal preference. Its a bit arbitrary to me.

 

[Reiner04]

We will not include it in the AP justification because there is no connection between the two.
(Despite mentioning this multiple times, I still don't understand why people keep bringing it up)

Instead, we will have a separate section that will only impact individuals who deviate from the default assumption in terms of being higher or lower.

How should we assess it? We will base the evaluation on HDE/BDE and the specified range.

Why are we doing this? We made the decision to move the keys up primarily to address issues of inaccessibility and improve clarity.

Anyway, this is the stuff, and to be clear it's more on preference and easiness readers will get when looking at a profile (well it's mostly either for Tier, speed,dura or Dimensionality when comes to battlebording brains).

 

[Antvasima]

I would prefer it just be annotated in their HDE ability section rather than be given a stat unto itself. It doesn't make sense to have a stat that isn't listed on most profiles. Or at the very least, it breaks our current conventions.

That solution makes better sense to me as well. It seems far more practical.

We can simply add instructions about this to the following page:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Higher-Dimensional_Existence

 

[Antvasima]

Dimensionality in which sense?

In terms of power we can write this into the AP justification. And in terms of mathematical dimensionality this belongs into the justification of HDE.

In any case, I feel like one can add such details within the existing format.

Yes. Agreed.

 

[Testarossa002]

Imo it can just be like this

Attack Potency: Hyperversal (created a 9D Structure)
Dimensionality: 9D (Exists as a [inserts maths terms])

The reason I'm suggesting have dimensionality listed out plainly is because it doesn't necessarily need to be 1:1 with AP

Myx from arrowverse is an example

 

[Antvasima]

Why not simply something like this instead? It is much more easily applied and works just as well.

Attack Potency: Complex Multiverse level (Created a 9-Dimensional structure.)

Powers and Abilities: Higher-Dimensional Existence (9-Dimensional. Explanation text and references.)

 

[ImmortalDread]

Dimensionality do involve other factors such as smurf range, HDE, BDE, specific smurf abilities and way more.

It is entirely arbitrary, we don't disagree with it but it is sake for simplicity, clarity and readability (specially for characters who got tons of abilities/keys)

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Why not simply something like this instead? It is much more easily applied and works just as well.

Attack Potency: Complex Multiverse level (Created a 9-Dimensional structure.)

Powers and Abilities: Higher-Dimensional Existence (9-Dimensional. Explanation text and references.)

I still believe that adding it at the top of the page would be better both functionally and aesthetically, but that's a good alternative.

 

[Lewis]

I propose that the dimension be at the front of Ap in the character profile

example

Attack Potency: Low Complex Multiverse level (5D): ......

Finally, use the Ap page

I was proposing that their stats, and smurf abilities be listed in a Dimensionality: just as the OP did, as it's simpilier.

This is unnecessary, if everything can just be summed up in a Dimensionality section. Plus going through a profile and adding that to statistics and abilities, is more work in comparison.

Nahhhh,I told you that mine looks good ,bro

 

[Lewis]

*High Hyperverse level * : infinity dimension

Low Outerverse level : aleph1 & uncountable number dimension

Outerverse level:
Aleph2,...etc dimension

Outerverse level+ :
Aleph-omega~zfc+

High Outerverse level : worldly cardinal and up

Boundless level :
Complete V and up

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Why not simply something like this instead? It is much more easily applied and works just as well.

Attack Potency: Complex Multiverse level (Created a 9-Dimensional structure.)

Powers and Abilities: Higher-Dimensional Existence (9-Dimensional. Explanation text and references.)

I agree with this

Though this has to be a requirement and not just a suggestion for every profile with HDE or BDE

Also the profiles affected is not "Thousands of pages"

It is exactly 1258 profiles and that includes smurfs

The ones with HDE number 663 profiles

267 for Beyond BDE

So this is nowhere near a wiki wide revision

 

[Lewis]

*High Hyperverse level * : infinity dimension

Low Outerverse level : aleph1 & uncountable number dimension

Outerverse level:
Aleph2,...etc dimension

Outerverse level+ :
Aleph-omega~zfc+

High Outerverse level : worldly cardinal and up

Boundless level :
Complete V and up

@Cat275 help

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

*High Hyperverse level * : infinity dimension

Low Outerverse level : aleph1 & uncountable number dimension

Outerverse level:
Aleph2,...etc dimension

Outerverse level+ :
Aleph-omega~zfc+

High Outerverse level : worldly cardinal and up

Boundless level :
Complete V and up

If this goes through get ready to help revise a shit ton of profiles

Especially 1-A+

 

[PrinceofPein]

It is exactly 1258 profiles and that includes smurfs

The ones with HDE number 663 profiles

267 for Beyond BDE

So this is nowhere near a wiki wide revision

Add tier 2 profiles too and also all tier 1 profiles.
Since tier 2 half of them are 4D, and tier 1 is all of them have a certain 5D and above ability that needs to be mentioned, so yes it is indeed thousands

 

[Crabwhale]

Just use the relevant P&A and Tier sections, bruh. This doesn't need a whole ass segment.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Just use the relevant P&A and Tier sections, bruh. This doesn't need a whole ass segment.

Or "optional explanation". Correct. Anyone who is smurf, simply list it under the section if staff members who "personally" are not fine with changing an arbitary standard.

 

[Crabwhale]

Call it whatever you wish, this is a useless change that does nothing except increase our workload for little gain.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Add tier 2 profiles too and also all tier 1 profiles.
Since tier 2 half of them are 4D, and tier 1 is all of them have a certain 5D and above ability that needs to be mentioned, so yes it is indeed thousands

Tier 2 profiles don't need it as literally there are only two possible dimensionalities that they could be in that tier

4th dimensional or 3 dimensional

Compare that to Tier 1 which can vary multiple infinities over and you start to see the problem

So yes it'd be 1258 profiles which is alot but not an unbelievable amount

And it'd only require them to list the number of dimension/ Cardinals in the HDE or BDE section

The payoff being literally everyone on the wiki now knows what they scale to and who they can make matches with

 

[ImmortalDread]

Call it whatever you wish, this is a useless change that does nothing except increase our workload for little gain.

The optional explanation is already a thing in the standard. I don't see how is it useless wha

 

[PrinceofPein]

Tier 2 profiles don't need it as literally there are only two possible dimensionalities that they could be in that tier

4th dimensional or 3 dimensional

You still need to add it for tier 2 regardless so yes it is thousands of pages, stop trying to beautify it.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

You still need to add it for tier 2 regardless so yes it is thousands of pages, stop trying to beautify it.

HDE without any specified dimensions is 4th dimensional

There, just did all the Tier 2 pages

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Call it whatever you wish, this is a useless change that does nothing except increase our workload for little gain.

Kind of weird to call something useless when a bunch of people are advocating for it. Especially sed people are the ones who are using VSBattle in the first place. Literally just users telling you what they would like added and you calling their idea useless.

 

[Crabwhale]

Let me clarify then.

The existence of a properly expanded and explained P&A section, alongside any other bonus information that may exist on the page pertaining to the topic (such as Notes at the bottom, explanation blogs, etc.) would make such an addition useless. And if said properly expanded and explained P&A section does not exist, then the effort should be put in to make it so, because if what this thread suggests would be implemented, it would not simply erase the necessity of a properly-developed and thorough explanation of the page. In all scenarios, its existence is invalidated.

Also, and I fully admit this be personal preference, but the proposed way of implementing it just...doesn't look good. "Dimensionality: Ex" seems awful as written on a page, frankly.

 

[KingTempest]

This is such a waste of energy below tier 2

 

[ImmortalDread]

At least you admit.. it is personal preference

 

[Crabwhale]

The second part of my message is. The first part definitely isn't. If anything I can argue this addition is outright counterproductive, since people will be reading a page and saying "yep both 16-D time to make VS thread" without getting into any of the finer nuance of the page itself.

Like, I need you to understand this WILL happen if this passes. It's not a matter of if, but of when and how many times. So in conclusion, aside from the useless extra work, I'm now further against this revision as it will lead to a lot of wasted time on that front as well.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Let me clarify then.

The existence of a properly expanded and explained P&A section, alongside any other bonus information that may exist on the page pertaining to the topic (such as Notes at the bottom, explanation blogs, etc.) would make such an addition useless. And if said properly expanded and explained P&A section does not exist, then the effort should be put in to make it so, because if what this thread suggests would be implemented, it would not simply erase the necessity of a properly-developed and thorough explanation of the page. In all scenarios, its existence is invalidated.

Also, and I fully admit this be personal preference, but the proposed way of implementing it just...doesn't look good. "Dimensionality: Ex" seems awful as written on a page, frankly.

Then what about simply requiring you to put what dimension or cardinal they scale to in the Powers and Abilities section?

This is such a waste of energy below tier 2

Fixed by doing what I said above

Tier 2 encompasses 3rd and 4th dimensions

HDE without any further context would just mean 4th dimensional