• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

(Complete Saint Seiya verse Overhaul Part 1) - Perhaps one of the top 10 most ambitious overhauls to a verse in vswiki history?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Georredannea15 said:
The problem is that the scan doesn't say that, the scan only says it has moved to the higher dimension beyond the membrane.

Membrane= N-D (?)
minds and souls/ higher dimension= N+1.

But, it is not specified how many dimensions the membrane have or that they cover the universe. Membrane would be 3D at best.
Click to expand...
I don't think that makes any sense at all
 
Georre. Asmita is inside the Universe. That’s a 4D location. The membrane separates it from the higher dimensional plane, where the dead are. How can a 3D membrane separate a 4D and 5D location.
 
StekFence said:
Georre. Asmita is inside the Universe. That’s a 4D location. The membrane separates it from the higher dimensional plane, where the dead are. How can a 3D membrane separate a 4D and 5D location.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, the fact that its universe is in it does not make it 4D. We are 3D, but we are in a 4D universe.
 
the Membrane is outside the spacetime. It’s the wall between the spacetime and the Higher dimension. How is that at all comparable to a human.
 
I only mentioned Asmita was in the Universe and that Illias is in the higher dimension to establish the separation of 4D from 5D. I’m not arguing the membrane is in the universe, that would be stupid.
 
Along with the differences already there, the descriptions in those scenes with Asmita sound vehemently unfaithful to what the 8th sense was in canon. LC shouldn’t be cross scaled.
 
StekFence said:
I’m fairly sure Low 2-C is considered a 4d tier via affecting an entire spacetime.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's exactly as you said. But in 3 spatial + 1 temporal way. So being inside the universe is not a 4D location. It's 3D

However, it doesn't make much difference. If the membrane covers the whole multiverse, being higher dimensional than that is already 5D
 
StekFence said:
Could you be more specific? Cos as I recall, dohko doesn’t explain it much
Click to expand...
The fact that they can't resurrect in LC like Golds did in canon, or whatever this is supposed to be.
It’s…..almost as if something separated from me. Almost as if I knew the workings of the world from the beginning. I, who understand what I am, my thoughts transcend space as well as time. Indeed, I will never be lost…
Click to expand...
Where was anything like this hinted at in canon?
Hasty12345 said:
Classic just says it allows one to enter the UW alive, LC explains the mechanism.

There's 0 contradiction.
Click to expand...
In LC they aren't alive.
 
SSJGeminiJJ said:
In LC they aren't alive.
Click to expand...
In tlc, they never enter the underworld(or at least, we never see it), why would this matter.
SSJGeminiJJ said:
The fact that they can't resurrect in LC like Golds did in canon, or whatever this is supposed to be.
Click to expand...
That’s like saying ND is non canon because the golds didn’t resurrect themselves.
SSJGeminiJJ said:
Where was anything like this hinted at in canon?
Click to expand...
This presupposes it’s not canon, but it’s certainly canon to TLC. You’d have to argue about TLC canonicity as a whole. And besides, what would be the point of writing a new story if you can add anything new
 
Georredannea15 said:
However, the fact that the membrane is in the universe does not mean that it is 4-dimensional like space-time.
Click to expand...
It’s not IN the universe. it’s a MEMBRANE. Those cover things, meaning they are OUTSIDE it. A cell membrane exists around a cell, seperating it from the outside world. the universes membrane exists around it, separating it from the higher dimension the dead go to.
 
Ko and Cho Jigen do mean higher dimension but the statement varies depending on the context it's not auto tier 1
In this case I think 5-D makes sense since it specificies in one scan that entering said state makes the individual free from the universe and it's membranes which shouldn't be a thing if the state was bound by or only encompasses space and time
There's alot to go over in the CRT and I'm not really qualified to evaluate that so i'll leave the rest to staff and the supporters

Also cheers for the CRT Unshakeable took a while but it's here at last
 
StekFence said:
It’s not IN the universe. it’s a MEMBRANE. Those cover things, meaning they are OUTSIDE it. A cell membrane exists around a cell, seperating it from the outside world. the universes membrane exists around it, separating it from the higher dimension the dead go to.
Click to expand...
But the scan doesn't say that.
 
I don't think any discussion about a membrane is really necessary here. What Asmita is talking about is that it feels that between his level of existence and the higher dimension above it, there's a membrane he can't penetrate. It's just a way of saying that he can't reach that level because it exists in a higher dimension, so the "membrane" is just a descriptor to say that he can't reach there unless he pierces that membrane, by rising the dimensionality of his own soul and becomes detached of the limits of time and space.

貴方のいる高次元がまるで突破できぬ薄い膜の向こうにあるようだった
It feels as if the higher dimension you were in was beyond an impenetrable thin membrane

I don't think this is meant to mean something that is literal, but rather a representation of someone from a dimension below not being able to access a higher dimension, as if there was a barrier that separated the two levels of existence. This is not something strange to think about, I have seen this same description used in other places as well and it's mostly as a metaphor to explain the difference between the two levels of existence.

Of course, sometimes there are in-between realms (Like in Platonism there's the Khôra between the physical and the metaphysical realms), but unless there's a proper explanation about those in-between realms, I don't think there's much to be discussed.

The content we already have about 8th sense users becoming unlimited by space-time and being able to percieve multiple dimensions at once is already enough to show that it's a transcendence that has physisical implications.
 
Or just that the 8th sense is a higher power and I'm not saying anything literal there, because I see this happening all the time in works, it's a kind of hyperbole to say that being superior in power
 
“Death is never final in nature, but a change of state, an elevation/ascension of the dimensionality of the soul”. in what way does it even imply the 8th sense is powerful in this scan.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Or just that the 8th sense is a higher power and I'm not saying anything literal there, because I see this happening all the time in works, it's a kind of hyperbole to say that being superior in power
Click to expand...
What are you talking about. Asmita is literally just describing how Ilias is hard to reach.
 
Executor_N0 said:
I don't think any discussion about a membrane is really necessary here. What Asmita is talking about is that it feels that between his level of existence and the higher dimension above it, there's a membrane he can't penetrate. It's just a way of saying that he can't reach that level because it exists in a higher dimension, so the "membrane" is just a descriptor to say that he can't reach there unless he pierces that membrane, by rising the dimensionality of his own soul and becomes detached of the limits of time and space.

貴方のいる高次元がまるで突破できぬ薄い膜の向こうにあるようだった
It feels as if the higher dimension you were in was beyond an impenetrable thin membrane

I don't think this is meant to mean something that is literal, but rather a representation of someone from a dimension below not being able to access a higher dimension, as if there was a barrier that separated the two levels of existence. This is not something strange to think about, I have seen this same description used in other places as well and it's mostly as a metaphor to explain the difference between the two levels of existence.

Of course, sometimes there are in-between realms (Like in Platonism there's the Khôra between the physical and the metaphysical realms), but unless there's a proper explanation about those in-between realms, I don't think there's much to be discussed.

The content we already have about 8th sense users becoming unlimited by space-time and being able to percieve multiple dimensions at once is already enough to show that it's a transcendence that has physisical implications.
Click to expand...
I don't think so, I haven't seen any qualitative transcendence anywhere except the membrane here.
 
Georredannea15 said:
I don't think so, I haven't seen any qualitative transcendence anywhere except the membrane here.
Click to expand...
e64.gif
 
StekFence said:
In tlc, they never enter the underworld(or at least, we never see it), why would this matter.
Click to expand...
There was that whole little arc with Ahimsa where he went to Hell and Asmita as a soul coming to his aid (where Asmita was noted to be the one of the only ones capable of traveling between worlds which is most definitely what that multiple dimensions scan is talking about as opposed to any higher dimensional whatever).

The whole "go the Underworld alive to not be under Hades' rule" criteria from Dohko in canon seems to have been completely discarded by TLC, considering Ahimsa does so awakening the 8th sense yet not being alive by any means.
StekFence said:
That’s like saying ND is non canon because the golds didn’t resurrect themselves.

This presupposes it’s not canon, but it’s certainly canon to TLC. You’d have to argue about TLC canonicity as a whole. And besides, what would be the point of writing a new story if you can add anything new
Click to expand...
It's not the same because Kurumada has clearly shown them with the power to regenerate. Asmita and Ahimsa (8th sense users) establish that in TLC they can't.

The issue isn't creating new concepts as much as it is these new concepts being unfaithful to canon creating inconsistencies and making cross-scaling incompatible. The 8th sense (canon) never came with anything like nigh omniscience like implied in that scan.
 
Agree with the OP.

Very nice work Unshakeable, you should be proud. I have some questions but they're irrelevant to this thread mostly. I'll ask you on your wall sometime.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Reiner04
Saint Seiya; Low 1-C thread.
2 3
Replies
85
Views
5K
Reiner04
Reiner04
Hasty12345
  • Locked
Saint Seiya Verse-Wide Revision pt. 1
2 3
Replies
116
Views
8K
Antvasima
Antvasima
Hasty12345
Saint Seiya Verse-Wide Revision pt. 1.5: Key Restructuring
2
Replies
54
Views
4K
Danny33wise
Danny33wise
StekFence
Low 1-C Saint Seiya(Toei)
3 4 5
Replies
179
Views
11K
Huesito88
Huesito88
TheUnshakableOne
  • Locked
Solidifying Manga Saint Seiya a 2-A Cosmology (Quick and easy)
2
Replies
69
Views
4K
TheUnshakableOne
TheUnshakableOne
Back
Top