• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

2-A Precog and Fate hax revision

Status
Not open for further replies.
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Range isn't an absolute quantity as far as Battleboarding goes.

There are different types of range for different purposes measured in different methods and styles.

Whether it's straight linear travel distance for some physical phenomena, angular coverage of some attack, radius of an AoE attack, whether an attack is summoned or formed instantly in equidistant mannern inside a field or is it fired from origin point.
There's lateral distance of range for how many and how much volume of space you can see with any sort of observation hax or technique like info analytics or prediction, or maybe the range is also needed to be defined in temporal sense for much time backward you can use your psychometry or retrocognition. There's the resolution and finesse of your vision as well.
Your range can also be discreet and simultaneously be long range, like watching someone 100 Googleplex universes away on same spot and time you are standing in a parallel universe inside a multiverse, but otherwise being completely blind and oblivious to something that goes in next room from you.
There's higher dimensional aspect to consider if that exists.

Point is, is instead of standardising something of such variance that applications and cases of precognition or fate hax or any ethereal hax for that matter change significantly accross various pieces of fiction.
Why not just keep things case by case limited to CRTs of individual verses like we currently do. I have faith that most of the time any thread will have fair analysis and decision from members on any CRT to decide range and smurfness of precog and fate hax etc.
Click to expand...
I actually agree with all you are saying, but you missed the point of my thread, I am not trying to change the standards for range but rather
PrinceofPein said:
I have precognition, Someone is running towards me and I see 15 different ways in which he can strike me, does that mean a timeline is created for all those 15 times? does that grant me 2-C precog range now? since I could see 15 different futures that may happen.
Click to expand...
in Qawsedf words
just seeing singular actions with an infinite variable
Click to expand...
the point is seeing events that are about to happen and all the possible variables(directions) of that event is not a tier 2 range thing. but seeing different timelines/universes is certainly a tier 2 range thing, those two are different and there should be a distinction which is the point of this thread.
 
Tbh precog being 3D or 4D is a silly question.
That's like asking if time manip is a 3D or 4D hax. It's ultimately irrelevant.

And looking into multiple possibilities whether or not they exist physically or just intagible what-ifs is also irrelevant in same way. Same goes for how far into past or future your vision goes.
What you described can also just be really good analytical prediction and forecasting.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Tbh precog being 3D or 4D is a silly question.
Click to expand...
it becomes relevant the moment someone can get fate hax through it and also it is not the precog that is 3D or 4D but rather the range of the precog which is what this thread is about
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
And looking into multiple possibilities whether or not they exist physically or just intagible what-ifs is also irrelevant in same way.
Click to expand...
it is not, seeing variables and actually seeing timelines are two distinct things
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Same goes for how far into past or future your vision goes.
What you described can also just be really good analytical prediction and forecasting.
Click to expand...
Except the verses call it precognition and treats it as such, so we treat it the way the authors do.

I really do not even know your argument at this point.
Are you saying, if I see 10 variables for an event, then I have 2-C range?
cause if you are not saying that, then we are good
 
PrinceofPein said:
you should read my OP, this is blatantly 2-A, if the universes/timeline he is seeing are infinite in number.
Also if you are seeing the futures of infinite universes, that will be 2-A, where did I say that will not be 2-A?
please do not strawmann me, it is getting extremely annoying at this point.
this is for verses where there is a single universe and we know that, and then a character is said to be able to see infinite possible futures and but this futures are simple infinite different actions that can happen in a few moments time.
Click to expand...
Even if you are seeing infinite futures of only 1 universe, thats still 2-A, thats how the fourth dimension (time) works
Normally, precog would be what is going to happen, not every possibility of what could happen
 
Marshadow29 said:
Even if you are seeing infinite futures of only 1 universe, thats still 2-A, thats how the fourth dimension (time) works
Click to expand...
One of the revisions for Tier 2 is the following
Two universes A and B are spatio-temporally separate if and only if there are no points in space or time that are in both A and B. Under this definition, timelines that branch off of each other are not, by default, separate spacetimes. Such timelines clearly share not just a single point, but an entire interval of time, that being the timeline that existed before the moment at which they diverged., which would mean branching timelines will not qualify for higher levels of tier 2, as those branches are not big enough to qualify for tier 2 to begin with.
Click to expand...
To get 2-A you have to view infinite separate instances, not one instance with infinite variation.
 
to explain it more properly, dimensions have coordinates ( even though time isnt a spatial dimension, it still has coordinates) Even the slightest variation is a different coordinate, thus a different placing on the space/time axis. I think you can see where im going with this one
 
Qawsedf234 said:
No, because they share an entire temporal segment before the split. Ao they're spawned from the same event. To be 2-A you would need to witness infinite separate events.
Click to expand...
I see, so just witnessing "different infinite instances" not infinite variation of same event (like a doctor strange case(?)) But what if the character is basically describing his precog as "I look through the future of infinite timelines" and that future is basically just few instances ahead and timelines are "branched". He is not looking at variation of same event but maybe looking at entirely different events unrelated to the current events of main timeline. Would that qualify?
 
Reiner said:
But what if the character is basically describing his precog as "I look through the future of infinite timelines" and that future is basically just few instances ahead and timelines are "branched". He is not looking at variation of same event but maybe looking at entirely different events unrelated to the current events of main timeline. Would that qualify?
Click to expand...
Afaik, yes. If thr person can see the future of separate events through infinite timelines It's 2-A, but seeing one event through infinite variations it isn't.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
No, because they share an entire temporal segment before the split. Ao they're spawned from the same event. To be 2-A you would need to witness infinite separate events.
Click to expand...
you saying split implies that they are now separate. Also that last sentence is contradicted by a lot of fiction, which furthers my case that it should be a case by case basis.
 
Marshadow29 said:
you saying split implies that they are now separate. Also that last sentence is contradicted by a lot of fiction, which furthers my case that it should be a case by case basis.
Click to expand...
He is saying that variation of same events or probability related future of same timeline wouldn't be 2A, incase character is literally seeing futures of all infinite Timelines then it can qualify (as there will always be a timeline whose events are entirely independent of present events of the main Timeline).
 
Reiner said:
He is saying that variation of same events or probability related future of same timeline wouldn't be 2A, incase character is literally seeing futures of all infinite Timelines then it can qualify (as there will always be a timeline whose events are entirely independent of present events of the main Timeline).
Click to expand...
If theres truly an infinite amount of timelines, there can be an infinite amount of timelines that are the exact same, weird but thats how infinities work, similar to an infinite amount of numbers that are between 1 and 2
 
Marshadow29 said:
If theres truly an infinite amount of timelines, there can be an infinite amount of timelines that are the exact same, weird but thats how infinities work, similar to an infinite amount of numbers that are between 1 and 2
Click to expand...
While true we're talking about different infinities. One involves infinity of a singular space-time continuum that's split vs seeing an infinite amount of different space-time continuums at once.

The former isn't 2-A afaik, but the latter would be.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
While true we're talking about different infinities. One involves infinity of a singular space-time continuum that's split vs seeing an infinite amount of different space-time continuums at once.

The former isn't 2-A afaik, but the latter would be.
Click to expand...
It splitting would mean the creation of new space-time continuums, instead of it being one. Saying otherwise would make it a paradox
 
If i'm understanding everything correctly.

Infinite possible futures which aren't expanded upon to be separate space-time continuums will be assumed just to be infinite branches from the exact same space-time continuum, so seeing an infinite amount of possible futures within that context would be at best Low 2-C since you're only seeing an infinite amount of futures within the exact same space-time continuum, while the other situation would be 2-A since you're peering through an infinite amount of space-time continuums which are separate from each other.

If that's the case, then i'm currently fine with this, basically my opinion's largely the same as Qawsedf's.
 
Deceived3596 said:
If i'm understanding everything correctly.

Infinite possible futures which aren't expanded upon to be separate space-time continuums will be assumed just to be infinite branches from the exact same space-time continuum, so seeing an infinite amount of possible futures within that context would be at best Low 2-C since you're only seeing an infinite amount of futures within the exact same space-time continuum, while the other situation would be 2-A since you're peering through an infinite amount of space-time continuums which are separate from each other.

If that's the case, then i'm currently fine with this, basically my opinion's largely the same as Qawsedf's.
Click to expand...
You cant view separate futures without them being separate, it really makes no sense.
 
I mean the future of one timeline can still qualify for 2A (because in the end most of timelines are branched) but they shouldn't be necessarily be a future of present event of concerned timeline but of all branched timelines (they can be independent of present event of concerned timeline entirely). Means different variation future for same concerned present is not 2A.
 
omegabronic said:
yes you can, the future of one timeline is not a fixed one, there are numerous possibilities for the future of one timeline
Click to expand...
They branch out infinitely, meaning different space-times for each of these differences. if they differ in any way, they're no longer the same. A nice way of summarizing what in trying to say is how db handles timetravel. Any variation creates a new "time ring" and thus a new space time.
 
Marshadow29 said:
They branch out infinitely, meaning different space-times for each of these differences. if they differ in any way, they're no longer the same. A nice way of summarizing what in trying to say is how db handles timetravel. Any variation creates a new "time ring" and thus a new space time.
Click to expand...
They're futures of same concerned present, the user here in this case doesn't have 2A range to cover all of timelines and see their future but just L2C range for seeing futures of same present in the same timeline, it's just will be seen as extraordinary precog that can see all the possible outcomes of same present, it doesn't matter if those possibilities branch into another Timeline or not, both will be same, but if a character can cover all of timelines and see their futures, then regardless even if future is bit same or entirely, it'll be 2A range.
 
Reio35 said:
The futures that Yhwach sees are stated to be isolated from one another like countless grains of sand. Which yhwach can see and control so that means their separated timelines. Tsukishkima who has similar power can also control the timelines of each person or object. Only difference is yhwach can see and control countless timelines at once
Click to expand...
this thread is not about bleach, it doesn't even have a bleach tag, why are you talking about it?
 
PrinceofPein said:
I do not want to be forward, but based on your reply, you agree with the premise of the thread?

Aside from the fact that the possibilities of alternate futures are not separate space-times, the user cannot see each alternate future infinitely, but a few moments in them, so yes there is no need for prove, this is simple logic, to have 2-A range, you should be able to see a baseline 2-A structure, and to have low 2-C range you should be able to see a baseline low 2-C structure
Click to expand...
Can we apply what has been accepted?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

LordGriffin1000
  • Locked
Danny Phantom - 2-A Ghost Zone Size Upgrade (Not Tier 1)
Replies
21
Views
1K
LordGriffin1000
LordGriffin1000
Kaiou1991
  • Locked
Saint Seiya High 1-B Upgrade (Manga)
5 6 7
Replies
254
Views
10K
Mr. Bambu
Mr. Bambu
Fwyzzverse
Lucius has 4D precognition/retrocognition multiversal and Asta has precognition resistance Divination
2 3 4
Replies
125
Views
10K
Fwyzzverse
Fwyzzverse
Strife304
Granblue Fantasy - 3-A/2-A and Infinite Speed Upgrade
Replies
6
Views
1K
Unqver
Unqver
Hagane_no_Saiyajin
  • Locked
2-A Almighty for Yhwach
Replies
38
Views
4K
Duedate8898
Duedate8898
Back
Top