SHINZA IS BACK!!!!!

[Rakih_Elyan]

Well it was team work, at least the scans was from everyone, none of the scans used in the blog was from me and the blog too was well a bit of the team work, no one in the server disagrees with it in general to my knowledge.

I mean, everyone that knowledgeable in Masadaverse to avoid this.

 

[Tarang123]

Satanael already started doing that, it's how Mercurius arrived and how Satanael became God.

If it was just this, Satanael would be the one who revolutionized things. Mercurius arrived from another timeline and expanded Throne's influence.

No? Where’d you get that from? What happened to Satanael was the equivalent of karma. Mercurius was born a god, essentially, and changed the throne from something hat manipulates good and evil to something that messed with the time axis and added in the concept of possibilities, allowing for a multiverse. There is a big difference

 

[Reizen23]

No? Where’d you get that from? What happened to Satanael was the quibble that of karma. Mercurius was born a god, essentially, and changed the throne from something hat manipulates good and evil to something that messed with the time axis and added in the concept of possibilities, allowing for a multiverse. There is a big difference

the problem is that the whole thing started back in paradise lost where Satanael mentioned his 3rd heaven as parallel to the 2nd

then in pantheon prologue this is confirmed,there were multiple universes with multiple thrones and Mercurius(or rather the unknown that affected Lament) came from another realm outside Nerose's domain(another universe explicitly),Nerose caused all of this and Merc just extended the throne's domain

 

[Tarang123]

then in pantheon prologue this is confirmed,there were multiple universes with multiple thrones and Mercurius(or rather the unknown that affected Lament) came from another realm outside Nerose's domain(another universe explicitly),Nerose caused all of this and Merc just extended the throne's domain

He extended the throne’s domain by changing the system. It can be thought of like this. Mercurius made it so that the picture could have bigger scale

 

[Reizen23]

He extended the throne’s domain by changing the system. It can be thought of like this. Mercurius made it so that the picture could have bigger scale

This is basically what I said

 

[PrinceofPein]

Good, now please you can take the discussion to the shinza discussion thread

 

[Tarang123]

Good, now please you can take the discussion to the shinza discussion thread

But I mean...it's important for the tiers, though

 

[Kyozen]

Add me as a Shinza supporter

 

[Kyozen]

Also there's so much things wrong with this thread but for now I'll just address the cosmology stuff.

Paralost stuff:
the dimensions in the Sefirot tree are not spatial dimensions so we have no reason to rate it as 10-D. The original cosmological model says they're spiritual dimensions and you can enter these higher dimensions in Paradise Lost by being clean of sin not only that but the Throne is supposed to be one of these dimensions despite the fact Dies Irae says the Throne is devoid of space in the JP text and both translations say it lacks the concept of time. Even if they were spatial dimensions the number wouldn't be 10-D because the lowest dimension (Malkuth) is supposed to be the entire universe so it would be more on the 1-B ranges rather than 1-C.
They also do not upscale the universe because like I said earlier, the universe itself is just one of the realms.

Throne:
No, the Throne is not affected by changes within the cosmos. The throne system was, the throne system means the process of a god taking over the world after another one according to Pantheon which of course it would change because it's now Infinite worlds meaning now the next god will take over the multiverse. It really doesn't say anything about the Throne's power or any god really, it just changes the range of the manifestation of said god's laws. This can be seen with Briah users transcending the law of foreknowledge within the universe but still be bound by the law of foreknowledge which governs over the entire multiverse.

 

[Tarang123]

The original cosmological model says they're spiritual dimensions

Have the scan or text for this? Would definitely be helpful. Unless it's in the blog already

 

[Hasty12345]

So what tier are we currently thinking? Looks to be in the 2-C to 2-A maybe low 1-C ranges?

 

[Tarang123]

So what tier are we currently thinking? Looks to be in the 2-C to 2-A maybe low 1-C ranges?

It's not lower than like Low 1C. Where'd you even get 2C or 2A? Literally nobody argued that. The arguments range between 1C and 1A. It's one or the other

 

[Chasekilleen]

I'm happy with a Tier 10 for Reinhard and Tier 11 for the rest since everything within Shinza are just Reinhard's imagination.

So what tier are we currently thinking? Looks to be in the 2-C to 2-A maybe low 1-C ranges?

 

[Hasty12345]

It's not lower than like Low 1C. Where'd you even get 2C or 2A? Literally nobody argued that. The arguments range between 1C and 1A. It's one or the other

Because the 10D stuff looks kind of horrible tbh and 1-A is probably less likely.

 

[Tarang123]

Because the 10D stuff looks kind of horrible tbh and 1-A is probably less likely.

Either way, it's Low 1C at minimum due to the blatant R>F content in the verse. As for 1A, I've already asked Ultima for his input, so that's something

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

@Tony_di_bugalu Your favorite PFP

Bitch

 

[Tarang123]

Bitch

Kek

 

[KLOL506]

Bitch

COPE

 

[Vasco]

Because the 10D stuff looks kind of horrible tbh and 1-A is probably less likely.

Yeah it's iffy and haven't seen any statement the 10 dimensions are qualitatively superior than one another.

 

[Tarang123]

Yeah it's iffy and haven't seen any statement the 10 dimensions are qualitatively superior than one another.

They're a hierarchy from the universe to the throne, which transcends everything. That being said, I do think them being spiritual dimensions puts into question whether they'd really qualify for 1C or whatever, or even whether it'd be a counterpoint to 1A to begin with

 

[LuciferX]

Low 1-C Shinza seems legit due to painter > painting analogy.

 

[Tarang123]

This went from arguing 1A to Low 1C. What a downfall. 1A to High 1A to 1A to 1B to Low 1C. Oof

 

[PrinceofPein]

Can you guys stop the derailing?
That said.

Also there's so much things wrong with this thread but for now I'll just address the cosmology stuff.

Paralost stuff:
the dimensions in the Sefirot tree are not spatial dimensions so we have no reason to rate it as 10-D.

no one said it is and no one is rating it as 10D
Check the summary of the blog

The original cosmological model says they're spiritual dimensions and you can enter these higher dimensions in Paradise Lost by being clean of sin not only that but the Throne is supposed to be one of these dimensions despite the fact Dies Irae says the Throne is devoid of space in the JP text and both translations say it lacks the concept of time.

The throne stand at the top and it's part of the cosmological model, but being free of sin does not mean you can access it as being who have no sin still cannot access it, that said the DI stuff is called recon

Even if they were spatial dimensions the number wouldn't be 10-D because the lowest dimension (Malkuth) is supposed to be the entire universe so it would be more on the 1-B ranges rather than 1-C.
They also do not upscale the universe because like I said earlier, the universe itself is just one of the realms.

Again check the blog.

Throne:
No, the Throne is not affected by changes within the cosmos. The throne system was, the throne system means the process of a god taking over the world after another one according to Pantheon which of course it would change because it's now Infinite worlds meaning now the next god will take over the multiverse. It really doesn't say anything about the Throne's power or any god really, it just changes the range of the manifestation of said god's laws. This can be seen with Briah users transcending the law of foreknowledge within the universe but still be bound by the law of foreknowledge which governs over the entire multiverse.

Okay good, we are on the same page on this

 

[LuciferX]

This went from arguing 1A to Low 1C. What a downfall. 1A to High 1A to 1A to 1B to Low 1C. Oof

2-A is better.

 

[Tarang123]

2-A is better.

It's not

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

This went from arguing 1A to Low 1C. What a downfall. 1A to High 1A to 1A to 1B to Low 1C. Oof

Just bring up the damn singularity already. It is a literal infinite hierarchy of R/F difference

 

[Ovy7]

Wut

 

[PrinceofPein]

Honestly, the derailing needs to stop.
Also let DT read the blog itself

 

[Darksmash]

Just bring up the damn singularity already. It is a literal infinite hierarchy of R/F difference

Hold up.
Let him cook.

 

[Reizen23]

Low 1-C Shinza seems legit due to painter > painting analogy.

Fiction is just 2D

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Just bring up the damn singularity already. It is a literal infinite hierarchy of R/F difference

Enough

 

[Antvasima]

Can everybody here who have been derailing immediately stop doing so please?

Anyway, @PrinceofPein , what do our staff and knowledgeable members need to evaluate here?

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Enough

k

 

[Antvasima]

An explanation post would be appreciated.

Also, is any staff member here willing to delete all of the derailing posts in this thread please?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Can everybody here who have been derailing immediately stop doing so please?

I think we should start doling out thread bans for those who will not heed the warning

Anyway, @PrinceofPein , what do our staff and knowledgeable members need to evaluate here?

DT said he will check the blog when he has time, Ultima said that too, so I guess we are waiting for them

 

[Hasty12345]

I’m quite genuinely confused as to what is being called derailing? Tier discussions are very relevant, I don’t think a single verse added to the wiki is put at 1-C/1-B without a CRT, I don’t think republishing pages should be an exception. ESPECIALLY a verse notorious for its mistranslations and rampant misinformation (not accusing you of anything here btw).

so outside of frankly the joke posts, of which there aren’t many, I’m not sure what’s being called derailing here?

 

[PrinceofPein]

I’m quite genuinely confused as to what is being called derailing? Tier discussions are very relevant, I don’t think a single verse added to the wiki is put at 1-C/1-B without a CRT, I don’t think republishing pages should be an exception. ESPECIALLY a verse notorious for its mistranslations and rampant misinformation (not accusing you of anything here btw).

so outside of frankly the joke posts, of which there aren’t many, I’m not sure what’s being called derailing here?

Literally all posts that are not arguments relevant to the current blog is derailing, talks about merc is also derailing, so there is a lot of derailing going on since no one is bring arguments about the blog.
That said we are waiting for DT and Ultima

 

[Ovy7]

Ok, I'll probably go through the blog this weekend and give my input, even tho I probably already know what the blog is about (DI reader and I've been kinda following Shinza for quite a while).

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for helping out, Ovy7.

 

[Tarang123]

The blog needs some correction when it comes to the wording. I'll just paste one section that bothers me for numerous reasons:

The multiverse also contains infinite concepts, All governed by the laws of creation. Also Gladsheim aka Reinhard's castle is so big that the realm upon which the Multiverse rests is but a mere chessboard into a single room,the castle is also infinite in size,containing "endless battlefields". It is also consistently referred to as a multiverse,outside the multiverse(Referred to as the mortal realm)between reality(the multiverse) and unreality(the singularity). Once a God is killed,he is erased from existence,this realm is beyond the concept of time and once Marie took the throne at the end of Rea route,she could bring back people from there. Once a God reaches the throne and challenges the God himself,the throne becomes a blank state,as a singularity is created and threatens the God's existence,this makes the throne chainable to the opponent's domain. Once Marie took the throne,Mercurius' multiverse was just one out of all the infinite multiverses that Marie brought. To reach the throne,you must be equal to the throne God as implied when it was said that Mercurius was finally on the same stage as Reinhard and Ren, and when it was said that they were on equal grounds. When a throne God or the challenger kills the opponent,the loser's corpse can be the foundation and base of the new world. Throne Gods cannot enter creation as they are boundless in comparison to everything below,thus using shadows to enter creation and the singularity, These shades are mere mirages,illusions of the throne God,this since they are mere fragments of the fantasy of the throne God,being a mere "illustration" of the throne God,implying that it is just a drawing of God that can never reach the level of the actual God. The throne God governs the whole of the singularity. If any God dies into the singularity,nothing will happen to those related to him/her,even the world is killed,everything,even the God's copy,this if the God dies outside of the singularity.

So...there's a few things wrong this.

1. I don't really think that one scan is saying that the castle is infinite like you have said it does, but that the spear has infinite mass.
2. The whole loser's corpse thing is figurative. It's just saying that Reinhard's and Mercurius' deaths would push their agendas. The new world.
3. Also, why did you say the throne was the blank canvas where they make the new world. That doesn't seem right.

There are a few other things. My issue comes with the fact that there's a lot of mention of Gladsheim, which doesn't have much to do with the overall cosmology of the verse. It's also really disconnected tbh. It goes into all kinds of different directions. I think it should have an organization to it