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Rule Against Verses With Slurs In Name

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Agnaa

Agnaa

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Given recent events in the RVT, I suggest a rule along the lines of:
Don't make any profiles for series or characters whose names include heavily offensive slurs, even if they are censored or purposefully substituted for similar words
Click to expand...
Be added to the Editing Rules page, to codify the opinion shown there.
 
If a verse is perfectly acceptable in every sense except their name, just use a workaround. Acronym, tag it out, makes 0 sense to me to complete snuff out the chances at possible verses becuse they have “****” or “shit”.

Verses with more “hardcore” swearwords like a certain manga about a dog whose coincidentally a black person im fine with not being on here. Most of the times series with those type of namings are designed to be purposefully inflammatory under the guise of comedy or just outeight bigotry.
 
If a verse is perfectly acceptable in every sense except their name, just use a workaround. Acronym, tag it out, makes 0 sense to me to complete snuff out the chances at possible verses becuse they have “****” or “shit”.

Verses with more “hardcore” swearwords like a certain manga about a dog whose coincidentally a black person im fine with not being on here. Most of the times series with those type of namings are designed to be purposefully inflammatory under the guise of comedy or just outeight bigotry.

I used "heavily offensive slurs" in the suggested text to try and only target the latter kind of verse, which you seem fine with not allowing. Is there any other wording you'd suggest?
 
Jibz said:
If a verse is perfectly acceptable in every sense except their name, just use a workaround. Acronym, tag it out, makes 0 sense to me to complete snuff out the chances at possible verses becuse they have “****” or “shit”.
Click to expand...
Those are not slur words that are prohibited by Fandom.
Jibz said:
Verses with more “hardcore” swearwords like a certain manga about a dog whose coincidentally a black person im fine with not being on here. Most of the times series with those type of namings are designed to be purposefully inflammatory under the guise of comedy or just outeight bigotry.
Click to expand...
We obviously cannot allow titles with actual slurs in them, including the n-word. Fandom does not allow that and neither should we.
 
Didn't fandom give a list of what slurs are prohibited with an explanation in place of the actual slur? Featuring that might be good
 
I have long since placed them all in our automatic censor-filter both in the wiki and here in our forum, and it is rather likely that Fandom staff members would demand a ban if I post a screenshotted image featuring all of them.
 
Never mind. I misread. I suppose that explaining each slur in a comparatively inoffensive manner might work, yes, but it would take considerable time, and I am not sure how to properly explain all of them.

However, if somebody knows something to clearly be a slur word, it is safest to not use it.
 
Doesn't Fandom have a page for it?

About the rule, it should be technically fine, but maybe we should devise ways to circumvent the issue if some verses are good by themselves, but have a troublesome title for whatever reason.
 
SamanPatou said:
Doesn't Fandom have a page for it?
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I just used Google and DuckDuckGo, and could not find it.
SamanPatou said:
About the rule, it should be technically fine, but maybe we should devise ways to circumvent the issue if some verses are good by themselves, but have a troublesome title for whatever reason.
Click to expand...
That may be a good idea, yes.
 
Agree with Agnaa.

But if that's the case, what about a character who has great potential but has a controversial name? is it still not allowed?
 
SamanPatou said:
About the rule, it should be technically fine, but maybe we should devise ways to circumvent the issue if some verses are good by themselves, but have a troublesome title for whatever reason.
Click to expand...
If we're willing to circumvent it if the series/character doesn't violate other rules, then the rule shouldn't be a thing, imo.
 
It'll probably be affected as well if the premise of the CRT gets a pass or similar.
 
If the verse has an alternative name, can’t we just use that?

Like one of the examples listed above and the primary reason for this thread, it is given the alias “Dog Ningen” instead of… yeah…
 
It'll probably be affected as well if the premise of the CRT gets a pass or similar.

As I already said back in this post, from the very start I suggested the wording of "heavily offensive slurs". **** is not heavily offensive, and it is not a slur. If you have alternate wording you'd suggest to get that idea across better, I'd be glad to hear it.

If the verse has an alternative name, can’t we just use that?

That is my preferred route, but a few staff members do disagree with that.
 
Bobsican said:
It'll probably be affected as well if the premise of the CRT gets a pass or similar.
Click to expand...
Not really.

F*ck is your average slang, it should be fine

The restriction covers things which would greatly offend people, such as the N-Word, the F-word (The slur for gay people), The K word (The slur for Jewish people), etc
 
Alright, a couple of thoughts, starting from the most relevant and trailing off to random asides:

1). The series that appears to have started this discussion has a perfectly fine censored title that is used on other websites (Good Reads doesn't even censor the name). I think the only thing that would make me, personally uncomfortable with platforming this manga is the writer being explicitly racist or something.

2). How many series that we would actually want on the wiki (besides this one) will the rule affect? Outside of NSFW titles, I can't think of many other series this would apply to. The rule overall could end up being functionally symbolic. It may be worth compiling a potential list to see how much damage this rule would cause if it outright banned verses.

3). If you make this rule, you'll have to open a can of worms around what slurs/highly offensive things are ok, and which aren't. You should ask yourself if you really want to open that can of worms, considering the international nature of this forum.

Edit: not sure if this is meant to be staff only.
 
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@KatBoi69
  1. While I pretty much agree with that, the prevailing opinion in the RVT seemed to be "Don't allow verses like this at all"; which I figured should get codified into a rule. If it turns out that with more people voicing their view, they're fine with allowing these verses, I think this suggestion could be culled or heavily reworded to whatever the new consensus is.
  2. I can think of one more that would possibly qualify, but that's about it.
  3. Fandom has already opened that can of worms and drawn their own lines, which we have to abide by. I expect our standards would be exactly whatever those lines are.
 
Agnaa said:
@KatBoi69
  1. While I pretty much agree with that, the prevailing opinion in the RVT seemed to be "Don't allow verses like this at all"; which I figured should get codified into a rule. If it turns out that with more people voicing their view, they're fine with allowing these verses, I think this suggestion could be culled or heavily reworded to whatever the new consensus is.
  2. I can think of one more that would possibly qualify, but that's about it.
  3. Fandom has already opened that can of worms and drawn their own lines, which we have to abide by. I expect our standards would be exactly whatever those lines are.
Click to expand...
So from what I've read of this series, it has about as much artistic merit as any other piece of small fiction we index. If this rule is only here to abide by Fandom/Wikia rules, a censored or alternate name does the same thing without erasing or barring entire verses.

Overall though, it sounds like the rule will disproportionately and unfairly target two verses and have little other effect.
 
I agree with this.
Jibz said:
If a verse is perfectly acceptable in every sense except their name, just use a workaround. Acronym, tag it out, makes 0 sense to me to complete snuff out the chances at possible verses becuse they have “****” or “shit”.
Click to expand...
Well, we do have a profile for a character who's literally named *******. And the word "****" isn't even a slur word, it's just a general swear word. Slur word by definition is any word that is officially Groupist (Racist, Sexist, Ableist, Ageist, Sanist, Classist, ect.) or Xenophobic (Homophobic, Transphobic, Islamophobic, Christophobic, Hinduphobic, ect.) by nature. Given actual RL names like Jack Schitt or Fred Fuchs exist, those aren't deletion worthy.

But anyway, having verses or characters with slur words in their names should not be allowed here yeah given Fandom's TOS.
 
The Dog manga thingey's alternate title is blatantly the original word with minor changes, like, you're not fooling people, this kinda shit suggested is the equivalent of saying "fizzlesticks" instead of ****, which, no one's on the wiki is five, they understand what you're attempting to say.

If the alternate title is not just minor letter changes within the same word, and instead is notably distinct, then it's fine to list.

I think Agnaa actually has a screenshot as well, of a person just saying the core word with an "n" instead of an "r" (which zoomed out just looks immensely unfortunate lol), having the verse on the wiki only gives people more opportunities to accidentally say the slurs, or be OOC'd as racist or attempting bypass slur filter, and in general it's just uncomfortable for people, if what is blatantly a stand-in for a slur is getting casually passed across the forums, there is only an arbitrary distinction between it and the real word.

The effort's just not worth additional policing and justifying, and imo is kinda community deteriorating in general. Not every word said on the forum is representing the wiki, but every page is, and this kinda shit we just shouldn't officiate
 
Agnaa said:
If we're willing to circumvent it if the series/character doesn't violate other rules, then the rule shouldn't be a thing, imo.
Click to expand...
Yes. That is true. Never mind my last post then.
 
Anyway, I agree with Impress' last post above.
 
The_Impress said:
The Dog manga thingey's alternate title is blatantly the original word with minor changes, like, you're not fooling people, this kinda shit suggested is the equivalent of saying "fizzlesticks" instead of ****, which, no one's on the wiki is five, they understand what you're attempting to say.

If the alternate title is not just minor letter changes within the same word, and instead is notably distinct, then it's fine to list.

I think Agnaa actually has a screenshot as well, of a person just saying the core word with an "n" instead of an "r" (which zoomed out just looks immensely unfortunate lol), having the verse on the wiki only gives people more opportunities to accidentally say the slurs, or be OOC'd as racist or attempting bypass slur filter, and in general it's just uncomfortable for people, if what is blatantly a stand-in for a slur is getting casually passed across the forums, there is only an arbitrary distinction between it and the real word.

The effort's just not worth additional policing and justifying, and imo is kinda community deteriorating in general. Not every word said on the forum is representing the wiki, but every page is, and this kinda shit we just shouldn't officiate
Click to expand...
I mean, isn't the word more of a neutral context to mean "friend"???

It's not like it's the version with the hard R.

Sure if troublemakers try to slip in an off color joke due to that verse that may be a problem, but the joke would get old and any problematic user would get punished.

We had other problematic pages like hentai stuff and F*ckwit (as mentioned above) and those stuff nobody made a big deal of. It's a relatively unimportant verse and most respecting users would not make a big deal of it
 
We do not allow hentai verses or ones with slur words in them. That's pretty much it. Curse words are not really a big problem.
 
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I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die said:
I mean, isn't the word more of a neutral context to mean "friend"???
Click to expand...
It's also an offensive context to humiliate someone for their past
I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die said:
It's not like it's the version with the hard R.
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We don't have little blurbs to instruct people on the context at its very mention
I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die said:
Sure if troublemakers try to slip in an off color joke due to that verse that may be a problem, but the joke would get old and any problematic user would get punished.
Click to expand...
I'm a Thread Mod, years of experience at this point, and let me tell you, forums have the most regressive unfunny sense of humor sometimes.
I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die said:
We had other problematic pages like hentai stuff
Click to expand...
That literally got deleted after a debate across 4 threads.
I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die said:
and F*ckwit (as mentioned above)
Click to expand...
**** isn't a slur. Don't ignore weight of the word in question.
I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die said:
It's a relatively unimportant verse and most respecting users would not make a big deal of it
Click to expand...
Wiki is 10% " respected users" only, let's get honest here.
 
Is Dog Ningen allowed? It had another title I can't say before the title was changed for the published volumes.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
Is Dog Ningen allowed? It had another title I can't say before the title was changed for the published volumes.
Click to expand...
People seem against that, due to it being a purposeful substitute of only two letters, seemingly designed in part to still resemble the original word.
 
I find it funny that we have to worry more about the profiles use of the n word than the actual insanely ****** up themes of the story. If its possible to have a substitute title and it isnt just ****** up **** and fetish crap (dont expect me to read and find out) eh, im not against it. Sounds funny to me.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
Who is "the people"?
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It is against Fandom's terms of use to post the n-word, period, including images with the n-word.

I had to remove a few scans that you uploaded in your linked thread that had this problem.
 
If it's mainly about Fandom/wikia rules, why not just refer to the series as, "Dog, by DH Animations", so it's searchable but avoids the controversial part of the title.

I do think, at the heart of this discussion, is an idea for a good rule, which would be along the lines of "Prohibit Series with Titles that Are Explicitly Meant to Shock or Offend", but I think the series about the dog-man that started this isn't really that.
 
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