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Person's True Speed= (Object's true speed/Object's Apparent Speed) * Person's Apparent SpeedWhat is the slo-mo formula?
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Person's True Speed= (Object's true speed/Object's Apparent Speed) * Person's Apparent SpeedWhat is the slo-mo formula?
So, if both of them were, let's say baseline Subsonic+, the numbers for those would get multiplied?Person's True Speed= (Object's true speed/Object's Apparent Speed) * Person's Apparent Speed
Wtf do you mean? We are not using "instant" as literal at any time, we are just using what happens in the feat. You act as if people don't know things and then state the obvious"Instant" is generally lowballed to "1 second", rather than a literal interpretation of "0 seconds".
It is not taken to mean something in the middle like "As if the other character was frozen" (which would put all of those feats at minimum at Supersonic).
I was just about to write this."Instant" can mean anything within 1 to 0 seconds in 90% of cases. If a person or character is shown to be frozen within those "instante" then Clover's method can be used to calculate the feat
Within this thread I have not seen any person using "instant" as an excuse for the method.
Yeah because Mash has Cut the Water, but the Water is on the same position. if we cut the waterfall the water will still fall, except in slow motion, the same applies to Domina's water.I'm not really seeing that, the spears of water and the water in the surrounding area look different across those pages. But I could just be blind, maybe we should wait for other people to chime in.
In the first Page The water was just about to be fired, and in the scene on the same page, you can see the water being launched towards Mash, of course there is a larger flow of water, as we saw after Mash cut the water. What I mean is that after Mash cuts off the water, the water stays upright in position.I don't think so.
Here's a video where I lined up the panels and flickered back and forth, you can try that yourself. There seems to be waves of water underneath which have gone from being in the middle of shooting out, to having settled on the floor.
(I think it's worth noting that, even if this were accepted, I would still disagree with the calc due to the calc stacking concerns outlined in the OP)
No, the main character with the credited speed has to be viewed as frozen, someone powerscaling to that character being viewed as frozen wouldn't work. It'd dilute the system too much.Again, I dont remember anything stating that Mash saw stuff as frozen. But Domina was seeing Mash as frozen, as if he weren't moving, because Mash was scooping up Poseidon dumping him off the edge and then moving back into place once in a while, which is why he wasn't able to see Mash doing his bucket brigade. It was only until he focused really hard that he was able to see Mash doing his movements.
Honestly, is there any calculations where someone sees an opponent froze because said opponent is doing multiple actions and going back into place every once in a while? Because if so, couldn't it be used as a reference?
Not how it works.So, if both of them were, let's say baseline Subsonic+, the numbers for those would get multiplied?
Sorry, my brain went and shut down. Wouldn't be able to understand it anyways.Not how it works.
Sorry, I'm having a hard time understanding this. So Mash is the main character. He was viewed as frozen by Domina, the one he was technically blitzing, as frozen. Not because Domina was too fast, but because Mash was too fast while repeating his actions before standing in place every few moments to make it seem like he wasn't moving. Is there any calc out there similar to this description?No, the main character with the credited speed has to be viewed as frozen, someone powerscaling to that character being viewed as frozen wouldn't work. It'd dilute the system too much.
Is Mash the one with the stated speed? Is he going all out here? Is he being viewed as frozen mid-movement? Is there a statement saying that he is being viewed as frozen?Sorry, I'm having a hard time understanding this. So Mash is the main character. He was viewed as frozen by Domina, the one he was technically blitzing, as frozen. Not because Domina was too fast, but because Mash was too fast while repeating his actions before standing in place every few moments to make it seem like he wasn't moving. Is there any calc out there similar to this description?
No, there are practically no stated speeds for Mash. His opponents are usually the one with stated speeds, such as Margaret being the speed of sound and having sound based magic. And Levis with his mach 8 railgun, which as we've been discussing in this thread, is kinda sus scaling Domina's reactions to it. So if we were to pick the best reaction speed for Domina, it would be baseline Subsonic+ for calcs, am I getting this right? Because Domina scales to a base Mash at his limits, when last arc, Mash was barely keeping up but still slower than a transonic character.Is Mash the one with the stated speed?
If you're referring to Mash, no, he is quite literally clowning on Domina because he's so fast.Is he going all out here?
Domina was seeing Mash as frozen because Mash was purposefully standing in pace for a moment or so to make it look like he had never left his place to Domina's vision. While Mash was doing his bucket brigade, he was scooping up Poseidon's, Domina's Thirds summon, attacks and itself before dumping them off a ledge. Because of this, Domoma had no idea why Poseidon's attacks were gone and why it was shrinking. And as I said before, it was only until Domina focused really hard that he saw what was happening.Is he being viewed as frozen mid-movement?
Again, if you're referring to Domina, read above.Is there a statement saying that he is being viewed as frozen?
Then nah, I don't think we can use it like this.No, there are practically no stated speeds for Mash. His opponents are usually the one with stated speeds, such as Margaret being the speed of sound and having sound based magic. And Levis with his mach 8 railgun, which as we've been discussing in this thread, is kinda sus scaling Domina's reactions to it.
Also a no to usability then. Because this doesn't give us much of an idea to confirm whether he was moving faster than railgun rounds here.If you're referring to Mash, no, he is quite literally clowning on Domina because he's so fast.
If you're referring to Domina, yes, this was him going all out in his Thirds state. Though it is wise to note that Domina stole the Wand of Begginings during this fight, and was amped up while also using a higher form that focused on speed and attack. Yet Mash was still clowning on him...
Yeah no, that can't be counted as movement, you need to be seen as frozen mid-movement, if you're just literally standing still there you're not even moving at all.Domina was seeing Mash as frozen because Mash was purposefully standing in pace for a moment or so to make it look like he had never left his place to Domina's vision. While Mash was doing his bucket brigade, he was scooping up Poseidon's, Domina's Thirds summon, attacks and itself before dumping them off a ledge. Because of this, Domoma had no idea why Poseidon's attacks were gone and why it was shrinking. And as I said before, it was only until Domina focused really hard that he saw what was happening.
Standing still unfortunately disqualifies the feat from being usable (Since there's no usable apparent speed for the object to begin with, and we can't use timeframes for the slow-mo formula), that and you're not directly dodging the projectile with the stated speed.As to whether this means Mash saw Domina as a statue, idk.
Again, if you're referring to Domina, read above.
If you're referring to Mash, no.
I mean this isnt about the railgun itself but Domina's reactions scaling to it die to Levis viewing Domina as top dog, but I think I get itThen nah, I don't think we can use it like this.
To qualify, Mash would have to view the Railgun as slow and then outpace its rounds by his afterimage thingy, which I am afraid is not the case here.
You explicitly have to dodge the object itself that has the stated speed, you can't use someone else as proxy here even if they have a history of being faster than those railgun rounds unless statements for those exist as well.
Well the railgun itself isn't important here, because Levi's is another character that Mash fought, before Mash moved onto Domina. And Domina shouldn't be physically faster than the Railgun, only his reactions? I guess? Since Mash was the one to react to said railgun rounds, calculate the time he'd have to hit said rounds, and then wack them.Also a no to usability then. Because this doesn't give us much of an idea to confirm whether he was moving faster than railgun rounds here.
Not only that, as per my first point, Mash is not blitzing the railgun, he's shown to "blitz" someone who can supposedly outpace the railgun rounds.
I guess that makes sense, but even I'm starting to get confusedYeah no, that can't be counted as movement, you need to be seen as frozen mid-movement, if you're just literally standing still there you're not even moving at all.
If I were to understand this point, I'm pretty sure Mash was still doing all his actions. He does his actions, scooping up Poseidon and it's attacks. But for a few moments while doing this, he stays in place to trick Domina into thinking that he had never moved. So while Mash was doing his bucket brigade, he had to travel the distance and back so fast where Domina didn't notice or see Mash, while Mash himself stays in place for a moment or two at times to make it look like he had never moved an inch.Standing still unfortunately disqualifies the feat from being usable (Since there's no usable apparent speed for the object to begin with, and we can't use timeframes for the slow-mo formula), that and you're not directly dodging the projectile with the stated speed.
Kind of is because the idea here is to reduce proxies as much as possible.Well the railgun itself isn't important here, because Levi's is another character that Mash fought, before Mash moved onto Domina. And Domina shouldn't be physically faster than the Railgun, only his reactions? I guess? Since Mash was the one to react to said railgun rounds, calculate the time he'd have to hit said rounds, and then wack them.
I mean, think about it.I guess that makes sense, but even I'm starting to get confused
Yeah but Domina still doesn't lunge in to attack and just stays standing there. Since no distance is moved, an "Object's apparent speed" ultimately cannot be calculated.If I were to understand this point, I'm pretty sure Mash was still doing all his actions. He does his actions, scooping up Poseidon and it's attacks. But for a few moments while doing this, he stays in place to trick Domina into thinking that he had never moved. So while Mash was doing his bucket brigade, he had to travel the distance and back so fast where Domina didn't notice or see Mash, while Mash himself stays in place for a moment or two at times to make it look like he had never moved an inch.
K.I'm going to be honest, even I'm confused at this time. Maybe it's best if I posted the chapter itself so that it can be read? Now this isnt me making fun of you and I'm hoping it isnt seen that way, I'm just suggesting this option because the manga might explain the situation better. And it's also a chance to shill.
Not too sure, the images don't exactly leave much to interpretation.Also also, there is a way better option to determine the distance between Poseidon and Mash at the end of the hall.
Oh ok that makes a whole lot more sense reading everything above this. Anyways, is that a yes for the chapter?
I mean, using that one shot where mash is close to Domina to scale his height, then using a shot where Domina is right by Poseidon to get his height, and then finally angsizing the distance between Poseidon and Mash during the bucket brigade would get a good distance, right?Not too sure, the images don't exactly leave much to interpretation.
Ye, gimme the chapter link and I'll see what goes where.Oh ok that makes a whole lot more sense reading everything above this. Anyways, is that a yes for the chapter?
Can you link the image?I mean, using that one shot where mash is close to Domina to scale his height, then using a shot where Domina is right by Poseidon to get his height, and then finally angsizing the distance between Poseidon and Mash during the bucket brigade would get a good distance, right?
Read chapters 96 and 97Ye, gimme the chapter link and I'll see what goes where.
Can you link the image?
Fair Enough.I will try to do a recalculation later and make a argument. For now I'm busy.
@WrongIdea21; By the way, I prefer that for now we discuss only the Timeframe and not the distance, I don't want to complicate this too much
As @AnAverageUsername says, Mash has no real statement about his speed, or to be more exact, no "real" one. In chapter 59 the characters believe that Mash is able to break the sound barrier through sheer speed, however, it's later revealed that he is actually slower than sound. This already gives us a notion of what Mash's speed is capable of being, something at least subsonic+ at worst. And to support him being at least subsonic+ is when it is shown that he is able to react to attacks that move at the speed of sound 3 times in a single chapter. Also, I want to state again, Mash's speed already varies by nature, but he increases and decreases according to the opponent's level. Therefore, maybe we can use the reaction speed at the subsonic+ level for the calculation as a massive low-end, since the difference in level between Mash from chapter 59 and Domina is the same as an ant and an elephantIs Mash the one with the stated speed?
Is he going all out here?
Okay, I guess you don't understand or AnAverange is wrongAlso a no to usability then. Because this doesn't give us much of an idea to confirm whether he was moving faster than railgun rounds here.
Now things get complicatedIs he being viewed as frozen mid-movement? Is there a statement saying that he is being viewed as frozen?
That's... not enough to justify the end of Subsonic+ being used without other concrete statements (I remember a Kill La Kill calc being rejected because it used Mako as being Supersonic, because it did not have any statements supporting that speed despite Mako being shown to be legitimately faster than submachine gun bullets and requiring no calcs to be determined as such because she's so utterly casual and comedic with such feats and that they're nowhere near her best feats, allowing her to scale above the gun's muzzle velocity by default, and still the calc was rejected). At best you can just use a low-ball of 34.3 m/s as the baseline Subsonic.Okay, finally I have some time for this
As @AnAverageUsername says, Mash has no real statement about his speed, or to be more exact, no "real" one. In chapter 59 the characters believe that Mash is able to break the sound barrier through sheer speed, however, it's later revealed that he is actually slower than sound. This already gives us a notion of what Mash's speed is capable of being, something at least subsonic+ at worst. And to support him being at least subsonic+ is when it is shown that he is able to react to attacks that move at the speed of sound 3 times in a single chapter. Also, I want to state again, Mash's speed already varies by nature, but he increases and decreases according to the opponent's level. Therefore, maybe we can use the reaction speed at the subsonic+ level for the calculation as a massive low-end, since the difference in level between Mash from chapter 59 and Domina is the same as an ant and an elephant
I think that is way too many powerscaling chains to even consider this to be viable to use in the Slow-mo calc.Mash is NEVER serious or going with all out in ANY moment, fight, or anything within the series, this being something thanks to his subconscious to hold back regardless of how dangerous the situation is. So whether he is "going all out" or not is not relevant, what we have to look at is Mash's level between one fight and another to determine how strong he is from one fight to the next, and in the case between Domina and Lévis's Secondth, the difference is ridiculous big. To give you an idea, Lévis's Secondth (Raigun) is considered to be able to compare with visionaries, while Domina as a kid was able to defeat and destroy a visionary without difficulty, he is also called the most powerful enemy and was the first to make Mash remove his bracelets, which limit his strength. Also, I don't know why it is so difficult to consider Domina's Third Line to be faster than the Raigun. Like, for real
Mash vs Railgun
Mash vs Domina's Third Line
Hmmmmmm, the water sprouts seem a much more usable option, given they are indeed in motion whereas Domina is not.The son of a bitch is literally FTE and is too fast for Mash to predict. Besides Lévis HIMSELF calls Domina as invincible
Now things get complicated
Just to simplify things, i want you to understand that the tens of thousands of movements happen in the timeframe of these two panels:
Now
Is Domina frozen? YES
As we can clearly see, Domina begins his Waters Mad Lance in this position, and when his attack is erased from existence and we see Mash's perspective, Domina is in the EXACT same position. If Domina could really move some centimeter when Mash is doing his thousands of moves his arm or at least his hair would have minimally changed position, something that does not happen at any time. To give you a idea, it is even that the water surrounding Domina also did not move during all that happened
Of course, there is a slight difference, which is the amount of water, but we already know why.
Also, in the scene above you can noticeably see that the water jets are frozen in air, which obviously does not follow the laws of physics. If you "cut" the water it won't be cut like something physical (Btw, Domina's water is natural and not shown to break the physics).
It should be noted that the first thing Mash did before his thousands moves was to erase the attack, so even when he was doing all his stuff the spell was still "frozen" in perspective, as the water remains that way even after Domina starts to realize that strange things are happening.
The water jets end seems to be the most reasonable one, but you will need to do the following first:I can see four endings to this feat
- Consider that water jats was frozen in perspective
I don't mean to get up in your face about this, but that's a dudeDomina Gal
**** ME. The long hair and dark eyes fooled me.I don't mean to get up in your face about this, but that's a dude
I read Chapter 96 and the scans you sent, and I can kind of guess where you're coming from with this feat.Also, did you read those two chapters and see those images I posted?
You're not alone**** ME. The long hair and dark eyes fooled me.
Oh shit, that's a surpriseI read Chapter 96 and the scans you sent, and I can kind of guess where you're coming from with this feat.
Mash is definitely at full power here. Domina is...
actually wait
Domina does indeed make a direct comparison between the 8000 kmh projectile, himself and the Visionaries in actual speech. And he seems excited about it.
He's in his thirds state with his god summon, so yeah, he'd be full power here before being amped by the Wand of Beginnings.Only thing left to do now then is to see if his water jets were truly at full power and we can be on our merry way. Though given his increased agitation and emotional state, it... could work?
Yep, here it is.Oh shit, that's a surprise
So what state was he in when he made that statement? You know, where he looks like a girl and has normal-ish looking eyes?He's in his thirds state with his god summon, so yeah, he'd be full power here before being amped by the Wand of Beginnings.
Wait wait wait waitYep, here it is.
I thought you were talking about the Domina fightYep, here it is.
Ok so there seems to be a confusion between who's who. Read LOK's comment up above.So what state was he in when he made that statement? You know, where he looks like a girl and has normal-ish looking eyes?
If only you'd explained in more detail that all of this, the speed and the comparison are in the same exact moment then my life wouldn't be a living hell right now.Wait wait wait wait
Are you literally saying that you didn't know about this scan,
which
is
literally
the
fundamental
basis
of
my
entire
calculation
?
FFS NOT AGAIN.I thought you were talking about the Domina fight
Ok so there seems to be a confusion between who's who. Read LOK's comment up above.