Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

And Shun is wrong as both techniques used were light and darkness representing concepts, Shun saw an illusion. Sorry but Classic caps out at 4-B.

Shun describes that countless universes are destroyed and created in that fight, and the power of Shaka and Shijima is equivalent to the end and creation of the universe. Although if you want to consider the Gold Saints as 4-B I don't object.

Even though Core Concepts are kept the same and we do know that their are only 1 God in all of the multiverse through a huge multitude of statements.

Let me ask you a question. Do you know what creates the Multiverse in Saint Seiya?

And the core concepts for the franchise are only the ones described in the classic manga or Kurumada's work, where he never describes that nonsense of a god in the whole multiverse, even in the rest of the franchise the other authors never describe that, and it's just head canon that you have created based on nothing.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

And the core concepts for the franchise are only the ones described in the classic manga or Kurumada's work, where he never describes that nonsense of a god in the whole multiverse, even in the rest of the franchise he never says that, and it's just head canon that you have created based on nothing.

Do you know how the multivese is created?

 

[AlexZiggy]

In terms of actual on panel feats the classic does cap at 4-B scaling from Kanon, discounting universal statements

 

[Hasty12345]

Shun describes that countless universes are destroyed and created in that fight, and the power of Shaka and Shijima is equivalent to the end and creation of the universe. Although if you want to consider the Gold Saints as 4-B I don't object.

This is wrong for many many reason, and I didn't say the Golds were 4-B, I said "Classic is 4-B". No statement claims these techniques have power comparable to the birth and end of the universe, they're only stated to represent those concepts. Shun saw an illusion, a representation of Samsara. Nothing more. The gold saints are around mountain level to country level, star level via libra weapons. Hades is only 4-B due to scaling above 12 Golds + libra weapons.

And the core concepts are only the ones described in the classic manga or Kurumada's work, where they never say that nonsense about a god in the whole multiverse, even in the rest of the franchise they never say that, and it's just head canon that you have created based on nothing.

Kurumada didn't invent no multiverse why would he describe such a concept? Okada makes his point very clear, he introduced the multiverse, this is his concept.

 

[ZAMIR890]

but shaka and shijima only seem to destroy recreating the same universe would be like destroying the same planet several times
although if g chonos was destroying universe with chain reaction and the lost canvas good is very lacking feats

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Do you know how the multivese is created?

Kurumada never mentions a creator, and in the manga it is only described that everything was born with the big bang.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Kurumada never mentions a creator, and in the manga it is only described that everything was born with the big bang.

So you don't even cross scale Cosmologies? Doesn't that sound a bit hypocritical to what you said earlier? I suppose i could have misunderstood an earlier statement by you.

Please answer the question; How is/was the multiverse created?

 

[Hasty12345]

Only Omega has a creator, no manga does, but that's not the question being asked.

 

[ZAMIR890]

several verses already tried the hypertimeline and it did not work although it seems to xenoverse in the sense that both at every moment create universes

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

This is wrong for many many reason, and I didn't say the Golds were 4-B, I said "Classic is 4-B". No statement claims these techniques have power comparable to the birth and end of the universe, they're only stated to represent those concepts. Shun saw an illusion, a representation of Samsara. Nothing more. The gold saints are around mountain level to country level, star level via libra weapons. Hades is only 4-B due to scaling above 12 Golds + libra weapons.

Kurumada didn't invent no multiverse why would he describe such a concept? Okada makes his point very clear, he introduced the multiverse, this is his concept.

Shun never describes that it was an illusion in any scene, and it is literally described by Shun that Shijima and Shaka are destroying and creating countless universes in that fight. Although I say it again if you want to believe they are 4-A I have no problem.

This is not important, because the idea of the multiverse was only created so that the other stories would be part of this franchise, even if they are not part of the main universe.

 

[Hasty12345]

Shun never describes that it was an illusion in any scene, and it is literally described by Shun that Shijima and Shaka are destroying and creating countless universes in that fight. Although I say it again if you want to believe they are 4-A I have no problem.

Why would Shun know it's an illusion when he doesn't know the techniques are only representing concepts? The feat also breaks all scaling as later on we find out that Shijima < Gemini < Athena < 4-B, so the feat is pure hyperbole and the Golds are below planetary without he libra weapons.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

So you don't even cross scale Cosmologies? Doesn't that sound a bit hypocritical to what you said earlier? I suppose i could have misunderstood an earlier statement by you.

Please answer the question; How is/was the multiverse created?

Each universe has its own gods, and each universe can have different rules, the cross-scale only works for the power of the characters, because there are series like Episode.G where the characters don't have feats of that level.

 

[Hasty12345]

Each universe has its own gods, and each universe can have different rules, the cross-scale only works for the power of the characters, because there are series like Episode.G where the characters don't have feats of that level.

Without G Saint Seiya is beyond fodder. I find it absolutely hilarious you're implying otherwise.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Each universe has its own gods, and each universe can have different rules, the cross-scale only works for the power of the characters, because there are series like Episode.G where the characters don't have feats of that level.

How is the multiverse created? Geez it really feels like your dodging the question here. Is it because you already know?

 

[ZAMIR890]

Where does it come from that there is only one version of a god for each universe

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Why would Shun know it's an illusion when he doesn't know the techniques are only representing concepts? The feat also breaks all scaling as later on we find out that Shijima < Gemini < Athena < 4-B, so the feat is pure hyperbole and the Golds are below planetary without he libra weapons.

Because Shun never describes that this is an illusion, and literally describes what he is seeing at that moment. When Athena was weaker than Libra's weapons, this was never described in the manga.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Where does it come from that there is only one version of a god for each universe

Do you know how the Saint Seiya multiverse is created?

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

How is the multiverse created? Geez it really feels like your dodging the question here. Is it because you already know?

The creator of this multiverse is Kurumada, because he is the main author of the franchise. The first work to introduce the concept of the multiverse to the franchise was Kurumada Suikuden.

 

[Hasty12345]

Because Shun never describes that this is an illusion, and literally describes what he is seeing at that moment. When Athena was weaker than Libra's weapons, this was never described in the manga.

Are you the type of guy who believes in magic tricks? Shun does not know the anture of the techniques at hand, he is a fallible source, he does not know what's going on and is incapable of knowing it's an illusion.

I never said Athena < Libra weapons, she's weaker than Hades who is 4-B. They can both be 4-B, but she's lower than Hades' 4-B.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Without G Saint Seiya is beyond fodder. I find it absolutely hilarious you're implying otherwise.

G has no feats of that level, his best feat was only destroying a small temple, and affecting small planets whose actual size is unknown, even they have no planetary level feats. Zeus' best feat is only killing the humans on the planet, because he doesn't even destroy the planet in any way.
5-B >>>>>>>>> Gods Episode.G >>>>>> Gold Saints.

Episode.G without feats of the classic and Sho is not impressive in any way, and the whole thing can be considered only as a hyperbole, because the characters never show the power they describe in that manga.

Are you the type of guy who believes in magic tricks? Shun does not know the anture of the techniques at hand, he is a fallible source, he does not know what's going on and is incapable of knowing it's an illusion.

I never said Athena < Libra weapons, she's weaker than Hades who is 4-B. They can both be 4-B, but she's lower than Hades' 4-B.

Because it is a description of Shun, who is watching the fight at the time.

When Hades was 4-B, and Athena is comparable in power to Hades

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The creator of this multiverse is Kurumada, because he is the main author of the franchise. The first work to introduce the concept of the multiverse to the franchise was Kurumada Suikuden.

What I mean in the fictional setting of saint Seiya. There is a special mechanic that creates the multiverse.

 

[AlexZiggy]

On the topic of the Shaka vs Shijima fight, can someone just post the damn raws already.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

On the topic of the Shaka vs Shijima fight, can someone just post the damn raws already.

The scans are in the description of Shaka's and Shijima's profiles in the Wiki.

 

[Hasty12345]

G has no feats of that level, his best feat was only destroying a small temple, and affecting small planets whose actual size is unknown, even they have no planetary level feats. Zeus' best feat is only killing the humans on the planet, because he doesn't even destroy the planet in any way.
5-B >>>>>>>>> Gods Episode.G >>>>>> Gold Saints.

Episode.G without feats of the classic and Sho is not impressive in any way, and the whole thing can be considered only as a hyperbole, because the characters never show the power they describe in that manga.

Because it is a description of Shun, who is watching the fight at the time.

When Hades was 4-B, and Athena is comparable in power to Hades

I’m going to ignore your G stuff as it’s clear you have not read the manga.

let me break Classic down for you:

libra weapon = star

12 x Libra weapon = 12 stars

Wailing Wall < 12 stars ~ 4-B ~ Hades

Libra weapons < Athena < Hades

Golds (about mountain to country level via feats) < 4-B Libra weapons < 4-B Athena < 4-B Hades

 

[Hasty12345]

On the topic of the Shaka vs Shijima fight, can someone just post the damn raws already.

The raws say the techniques are just representations of concepts. The feat is a representation of Buddhist concepts, no universes are being destroyed, there’s no basis for this. Just wank head canon. Shijima is also weaker than Cain who’s 4-B via statements, and likely stronger than Hades due to Ikki’s statement, which feat wise turns out to be consistent.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

I’m going to ignore your G stuff as it’s clear you have not read the manga.

let me break Classic down for you:

libra weapon = star

12 x Libra weapon = 12 stars

Wailing Wall < 12 stars ~ 4-B ~ Hades

Libra weapons < Athena < Hades

Golds (about mountain to country level via feats) < 4-B Libra weapons < 4-B Athena < 4-B Hades

I read that manga and even reviewed the raw, and from that I know that the feats in that manga are not impressive in any way, and there is no 4-B feat in the whole manga.

When was this described in the manga.

The raws say the techniques are just representations of concepts. The feat is a representation of Buddhist concepts, no universes are being destroyed, there’s no basis for this. Just wank head canon. Shijima is also weaker than Cain who’s 4-B via statements, and likely stronger than Hades due to Ikki’s statement, which feat wise turns out to be consistent.

The raw does not say that, and it is literally described by Shun that they are destroying and creating countless universes.

 

[Hasty12345]

You know what, perhaps Athena doesn’t scale to the 12 Libra weapons, I can’t think of why she’d be stronger.

perhaps Athena < star level, afterall, she needed the cosmo of 4 god saints and Seiya to weaken Hades to defeat him.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

You know what, perhaps Athena doesn’t scale to the 12 Libra weapons, I can’t think of why she’d be stronger.

perhaps Athena < star level, afterall, she needed the cosmo of 4 god saints and Seiya to weaken Hades to defeat him.

Why not scale to that, when she is stronger than his army.

Athena created five indestructible barriers to Hades' power.
Each of these barriers >>>>>>>> Hades

If she had not had to protect the Bronze Saints and use her power to create those barriers, the god would have only created one of those barriers in front of her and Hades would never have been able to touch her.

 

[Hasty12345]

Feats say otherwise. Athena is stronger than the Saints sure, but they only have country level feats. The Libra weapons are star level. Without scaling Athena to Hades, she probably maxes out at planetary, but “at least country level likely higher” is more accurate tbh

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

On the topic of the Shaka vs Shijima fight, can someone just post the damn raws already.

Got a question for you, Do you know how the Multiverse in SS is created?

This is important because its just another direct statement on why there is only 1 God in all of SS lol (well like 1 Hades, 1 Zeus, etc.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Feats say otherwise. Athena is stronger than the Saints sure, but they only have country level feats. The Libra weapons are star level. Without scaling Athena to Hades, she probably maxes out at planetary, but “at least country level likely higher” is more accurate tbh

What a feat, Athena is stronger than the Saints, and Thanatos literally destroyed those weapons with one attack. Unlike Pontus who could not destroy these weapons.

 

[AlexZiggy]

Honestly i can see both interpretations, It's a little vague, but I think the fact that It's said that Shaka and Shijima's attacks represent both the beginning and end of the universe do tilt things towards Hasty's side.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Got a question for you, Do you know how the Multiverse in SS is created?

This is important because its just another direct statement on why there is only 1 God in all of SS lol (well like 1 Hades, 1 Zeus, etc.

This is not important, because the branching universe does not indicate that there is only one god.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Going by ND, and GA "The Universe" could mean something a while lot bigger which will be covered by a blog i'll be making in the future.

 

[AlexZiggy]

Also G does have universe feats Lancelot, did you forget the fact that Titans had their own planet and universe each?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

This is not important, because the branching universe does not indicate that there is only one god.

Actually it is important for this. its not the most important thing though when we have balantant and direct scans that say it.

but i will only elaborate further if someone can tell me in their opinion how the Universes in the SS multiverse are created. not hasty though

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Also G does have universe feats Lancelot, did you forget the fact that Titans had their own planet and universe each?

Never real planets and we don't know the real size of those planets. And the Titans never created a real universe, they were only inside a temple, even when the place is destroyed the explosion only covers the size of a temple and only destroys a temple.

 

[Hasty12345]

What a feat, Athena is stronger than the Saints, and Thanatos literally destroyed those weapons with one attack. Unlike Pontus who could not destroy these weapons.

Those weapons were in the hands of saints who have not mastered the 7th sense.

also, you’re cross scaling with G when they’re different universes. Each universe has their own rules, you can’t assume the Libra weapons are the same tier.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Never real planets and we don't know the real size of those planets. And the Titans never created a real universe, they were only inside a temple, even when the place is destroyed the explosion only covers the size of a temple and only destroys a temple.

AOE Fallacy

 

[Hasty12345]

Never real planets and we don't know the real size of those planets. And the Titans never created a real universe, they were only inside a temple, even when the place is destroyed the explosion only covers the size of a temple and only destroys a temple.

This man just said what…..