Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)

[ZAMIR890]

the false saori had the most memories, even she has demonstrated the inability to enter the underworld by herself and only the golden saints have demonstrated abilities that no god canonically displayed as capable of time travel between the world of the living and the dead.

 

[ZAMIR890]

no you are choosing what supports your argument when you yourself accept taizen takes precedence and the revised taizen 2021 completely denies the existence of ninth sense even kurumada

It's very clear the museum only references events in the original manga that are plot relevant....

in the chronology denies hypermito

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Saori* Who is a HUMAN reincarnation of Athena and does not know.

Saori has the memories and knowledge of the mythological Athena, even this is explained in detail in Saintia Sho with the awakening of Athena, an element that Kurumada introduces as canon in Next Dimension (and was also mentioned in the last chapter of Dark Wing). The goddess herself does not know this sense, that is why Shaka revealed this secret to her, and she has to awaken it like the rest of the Saints.

It's very clear the museum only references events in the original manga that are plot relevant....

The classic manga is the main work of this franchise and confirms that Kurumada never described anything like a 9th sense in the franchise, because in that page there are only the concepts that Kurumada introduces to this franchise, where for him the 8th sense is the maximum sense, a power that even the gods do not possess and know (and speaking of Taizen, even in that work it is described that the Underworld is an unreachable place for the power of the gods).

 

[Hasty12345]

Saori awoke her 8th sense and needed Chronos to time travel

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Saori awoke her 8th sense and needed Chronos to time travel

It is never mentioned that she mastered the 8th sense (even the Bronze Saints also awakened that sense for a few seconds or short time but did not master it), that's why she can die for the sacred treasures in Next Dimension (the goddess is even dying from Samael's poison and the Pope gave Ikki the Chrysus Sword to kill Saori), and what does this have to do with Chronos and time travel, the power of time is an exclusive power of Chronos in Next Dimension and the Gold Saints also showed the ability to cross through time after transcending and reaching a different plane of existence (when they were destroyed body and soul in the Wailing Wall scene).

 

[Hasty12345]

It is never mentioned that she mastered the 8th sense (even the Bronze Saints also awakened that sense for a few seconds or short time but did not master it), that's why she can die for the sacred treasures in Next Dimension (the goddess is even dying from Samael's poison and the Pope gave Ikki the Chrysus Sword to kill Saori), and what does this have to do with Chronos and time travel.

Artemis confirms only Chronos has the power to time travel and it's never mentioned the Golds mastered the 8th sense, that is head canon. It is never stated. Time travelling is not an 8th sense ability and is likely only possible due to the spacetime distortion created AFTER Chronos sent post-8th sense Athena to the past.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Artemis confirms only Chronos has the power to time travel and it's never mentioned the Golds mastered the 8th sense, that is head canon. It is never stated. Time travelling is not an 8th sense ability and is likely only possible due to the spacetime distortion created AFTER Chronos sent post-8th sense Athena to the past.

This only confirms that Artemis does not know the full power of the 8th Sense, because it is a power that even the gods do not possess and know. Only the Gold Saints dominate the senses, the rest like the Bronze Saints and other characters only awaken the senses for small moments. It is said that the spirit of the Gold Saints crossed time and space to protect Saori, this has nothing to do with the distortion, even Hyoga also indicates to Gestalt that the appearance of Aiolos' will in his temple has nothing to do with the distortion and it was only Aiolos' spirit sending his will to the past. And this was an ability that the Gold Saints gained only after transcending to a different plane of existence after their death, something Athena did not do.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Headcanons. Headcanons everything

Sorry guys but classic is old. Just because something isn't stated in a 5 decade old series but stated in a newer series means the newer series added information thus it takes precedence first and foremost.

Also not stated doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

[Hasty12345]

Nah I'm convinced. The Gold Saints are clearly are superior to Chronos and the Olympians as they can time travel without the lake of time unlike the gods. Chronos doesn't even have the 7th sense as he's not light speed. He has no light speed feats so clearly he doesn't have 7th sense.

 

[AlexZiggy]

Chronos is actually fodder

 

[ZAMIR890]

Headcanons. Headcanons everything

Sorry guys but classic is old. Just because something isn't stated in a 5 decade old series but stated in a newer series means the newer series added information thus it takes precedence first and foremost.

Also not stated doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

false even next dimension in its new capituros rejects your notion can not say that if it is not shown it does not exist completely something of yours even taizen 2001 denies the existence ninth sense

 

[Hasty12345]

Chronos is actually fodder

He doesn't know about the 8th sense and has no proof of 7th sense feats so should be downgraded to multi-continental for scaling above Silver Saints as he can use cosmo

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

false even next dimension in its new capituros rejects your notion can not say that if it is not shown it does not exist completely something of yours even taizen 2001 denies the existence ninth sense

in your opinion, what tier do you have Classic and only Classic Gold Saints?

 

[ZAMIR890]

classic manga do not pass 3A even scale them to low 2c only dare athena exclamation g low 2c a 2c scala Cronus 2c episodio g

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

classic manga do not pass 3A even scale them to low 2c only dare athena exclamation g low 2c a 2c scala Cronus 2c episodio g

What tier do you have the gold saints at maximum. Do you have them at star? Do you have them at planetary? Do do you have them at mountain level?

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Nah I'm convinced. The Gold Saints are clearly are superior to Chronos and the Olympians as they can time travel without the lake of time unlike the gods. Chronos doesn't even have the 7th sense as he's not light speed. He has no light speed feats so clearly he doesn't have 7th sense.

With all the wanking from Kurumada to Asclepius it is possible that the future will be even stronger than the gods.

But, actually they are not stronger, they just have an ability that they do not have, something normal in this franchise, for something Asclepius can resurrect the dead and regenerate his body, while Athena does not have this ability.

 

[ZAMIR890]

multiple galaxies level scaling to universe level saga with athena exclametion

 

[ZAMIR890]

multiple galaxies level scaling to universe level saga with athena exclametion

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

classic manga do not pass 3A even scale them to low 2c only dare athena exclamation g low 2c a 2c scala Cronus 2c episodio g

The strongest part of the franchise and with the best feats is Kurumada's classic manga or main universe, that's why the cross-scale for the other spin-offs is so important, because these manga or series don't have comparable feats. Even with Next Dimension feats they can be up to 2-B if we accept Shaka and Shijima's fight where they are said to destroy and create countless universes in their fight.

 

[Hasty12345]

How can the gold saints out scale the Libra Weapons which are only star level and the Wailing Wall was destroyed by star level weapons? Seems like Classic scales only to multi-star level

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

multiple galaxies level scaling to universe level saga with athena exclametion

Do you believe the AE is 3-A or Low 2-C?

 

[Hasty12345]

The strongest part of the franchise and with the best feats is Kurumada's classic manga or main universe, that's why the cross-scale for the other spin-offs is so important, because these manga or series don't have comparable feats. Even with Next Dimension feats they can be up to 2-B if we accept Shaka and Shijima's fight where they are said to destroy and create countless universes in their fight.

Shaka and Shijima's feat was a representation of concepts, no universes were destroyed.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The strongest part of the franchise and with the best feats is Kurumada's classic manga or main universe, that's why the cross-scale for the other spin-offs is so important, because these manga or series don't have comparable feats. Even with Next Dimension feats they can be up to 2-B if we accept Shaka and Shijima's fight where they are said to destroy and create countless universes in their fight.

Classic series has tis own Universal Feats

but you won't be satisfied until Zeus is 5-C, and see Gold Stronger than Gods. Whihc is why separating the canons is so important to you.

Edit: Also going by Shaka Vs Shijima fight it would be a 5D low 1-C feat via Hypertimeline logic (Keeping long story short) otherwise it won't be 2-B but 3-A attack spam.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Shaka and Shijima's feat was a representation of concepts, no universes were destroyed.

Shun describes the fight and he describes what he sees at that moment.

 

[Hasty12345]

Shun describes the fight and he describes what he sees at that moment.

And Shun is wrong as both techniques used were light and darkness representing concepts, Shun saw an illusion. Sorry but Classic caps out at 4-B.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

but you won't be satisfied until Zeus is 5-C, and see Gold Stronger than Gods. Whihc is why separating the canons is so important to you.

It's not important, that's why I accept the cross-scale of the franchise, the only thing I don't accept is that they try to use an explanation from another universe for what is presented in the main universe, because they are different universes even if they are part of the same multiverse.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

It's not important, that's why I accept the cross-scale of the franchise, the only thing I don't accept is that they try to use an explanation from another universe for what is presented in the main universe, because they are different universes even if they are part of the same multiverse.

Even though Core Concepts are kept the same and we do know that their are only 1 God in all of the multiverse through a huge multitude of statements.

Let me ask you a question. Do you know what creates the Multiverse in Saint Seiya?

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

And Shun is wrong as both techniques used were light and darkness representing concepts, Shun saw an illusion. Sorry but Classic caps out at 4-B.

Shun describes that countless universes are destroyed and created in that fight, and the power of Shaka and Shijima is equivalent to the end and creation of the universe. Although if you want to consider the Gold Saints as 4-B I don't object.

Even though Core Concepts are kept the same and we do know that their are only 1 God in all of the multiverse through a huge multitude of statements.

Let me ask you a question. Do you know what creates the Multiverse in Saint Seiya?

And the core concepts for the franchise are only the ones described in the classic manga or Kurumada's work, where he never describes that nonsense of a god in the whole multiverse, even in the rest of the franchise the other authors never describe that, and it's just head canon that you have created based on nothing.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

And the core concepts for the franchise are only the ones described in the classic manga or Kurumada's work, where he never describes that nonsense of a god in the whole multiverse, even in the rest of the franchise he never says that, and it's just head canon that you have created based on nothing.

Do you know how the multivese is created?

 

[AlexZiggy]

In terms of actual on panel feats the classic does cap at 4-B scaling from Kanon, discounting universal statements

 

[Hasty12345]

Shun describes that countless universes are destroyed and created in that fight, and the power of Shaka and Shijima is equivalent to the end and creation of the universe. Although if you want to consider the Gold Saints as 4-B I don't object.

This is wrong for many many reason, and I didn't say the Golds were 4-B, I said "Classic is 4-B". No statement claims these techniques have power comparable to the birth and end of the universe, they're only stated to represent those concepts. Shun saw an illusion, a representation of Samsara. Nothing more. The gold saints are around mountain level to country level, star level via libra weapons. Hades is only 4-B due to scaling above 12 Golds + libra weapons.

And the core concepts are only the ones described in the classic manga or Kurumada's work, where they never say that nonsense about a god in the whole multiverse, even in the rest of the franchise they never say that, and it's just head canon that you have created based on nothing.

Kurumada didn't invent no multiverse why would he describe such a concept? Okada makes his point very clear, he introduced the multiverse, this is his concept.

 

[ZAMIR890]

but shaka and shijima only seem to destroy recreating the same universe would be like destroying the same planet several times
although if g chonos was destroying universe with chain reaction and the lost canvas good is very lacking feats

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Do you know how the multivese is created?

Kurumada never mentions a creator, and in the manga it is only described that everything was born with the big bang.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Kurumada never mentions a creator, and in the manga it is only described that everything was born with the big bang.

So you don't even cross scale Cosmologies? Doesn't that sound a bit hypocritical to what you said earlier? I suppose i could have misunderstood an earlier statement by you.

Please answer the question; How is/was the multiverse created?

 

[Hasty12345]

Only Omega has a creator, no manga does, but that's not the question being asked.

 

[ZAMIR890]

several verses already tried the hypertimeline and it did not work although it seems to xenoverse in the sense that both at every moment create universes

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

This is wrong for many many reason, and I didn't say the Golds were 4-B, I said "Classic is 4-B". No statement claims these techniques have power comparable to the birth and end of the universe, they're only stated to represent those concepts. Shun saw an illusion, a representation of Samsara. Nothing more. The gold saints are around mountain level to country level, star level via libra weapons. Hades is only 4-B due to scaling above 12 Golds + libra weapons.

Kurumada didn't invent no multiverse why would he describe such a concept? Okada makes his point very clear, he introduced the multiverse, this is his concept.

Shun never describes that it was an illusion in any scene, and it is literally described by Shun that Shijima and Shaka are destroying and creating countless universes in that fight. Although I say it again if you want to believe they are 4-A I have no problem.

This is not important, because the idea of the multiverse was only created so that the other stories would be part of this franchise, even if they are not part of the main universe.

 

[Hasty12345]

Shun never describes that it was an illusion in any scene, and it is literally described by Shun that Shijima and Shaka are destroying and creating countless universes in that fight. Although I say it again if you want to believe they are 4-A I have no problem.

Why would Shun know it's an illusion when he doesn't know the techniques are only representing concepts? The feat also breaks all scaling as later on we find out that Shijima < Gemini < Athena < 4-B, so the feat is pure hyperbole and the Golds are below planetary without he libra weapons.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

So you don't even cross scale Cosmologies? Doesn't that sound a bit hypocritical to what you said earlier? I suppose i could have misunderstood an earlier statement by you.

Please answer the question; How is/was the multiverse created?

Each universe has its own gods, and each universe can have different rules, the cross-scale only works for the power of the characters, because there are series like Episode.G where the characters don't have feats of that level.

 

[Hasty12345]

Each universe has its own gods, and each universe can have different rules, the cross-scale only works for the power of the characters, because there are series like Episode.G where the characters don't have feats of that level.

Without G Saint Seiya is beyond fodder. I find it absolutely hilarious you're implying otherwise.