Sergio Bonelli Comics Discussion Thread

[EliminatorVenom]

I'm wondering if I should, at least at first, focus on just getting the right issue for each scan. I was intending to do it right and put the page number as well on each scan, but I had to dig through the whole comic again to do so, and it made the entire thing more tiring than it ought to be...

 

[SamanPatou]

I don't think pages are necessary, the issue is just fine.

I can see pages being referenced for books, as it would be quite hard to find quotes within them, but comics are short and easy to skim.
You can add them if you really want to be a completionist at some point, but I don't see them as necessary atm.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Yay!

Then, the Tex revamp should be done by today. Also, I swear, I'm starting to learn italian partially thanks to this thread, the words are starting to make sense when I research and read Bonelli stuff in the native language. It helps that portuguese has similar roots, being a latin language.

After the Tex revamp and once I finish the Record series, I'll start working on a Zagor revamp. While that doesn't happen, I'll try to work on two minor Zagor villains (The strongest henchman of Hammad the Egyptian from the eponymous issue, and the main antagonist of the Black Wolves), and maybe on a Tex character. (Kit Willer, more specifically, as he has, weirdly, the best feats thus far)

My university's semester is over, so I got more time to dedicate here.

 

[Armorchompy]

Latin languages are funny cause you can kinda understand all of them a bit if you know one, although Portoguese is a bit further removed so it's the exception.

 

[SamanPatou]

Nice, compliments as always for the good and hard work!

I think spanish and portugues are the easiest to comprehend for Italians and vice versa, I personally find French quite difficult.

Also, I find it weird to read about a semester ending at the end of august.
I know school and university periods greatly vary even at short distances (the closest example that comes to my mind is in Germany), but it still gives a strange feeling.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Latin languages are funny cause you can kinda understand all of them a bit if you know one, although Portoguese is a bit further removed so it's the exception.

Oh, I thought french was the most different one when compared to each other. Portuguese and spanish are incredibly similar to each other, to the point that, if you know one, you can probably read the other fine enough. Of course, speaking and hearing are a bit different, but they're similar.

Nice, compliments as always for the good and hard work!

Thanks!

I think spanish and portugues are the easiest to comprehend for Italians and vice versa, I personally find French quite difficult.

Yeah, me too. I can understand spanish very well, italian is a bit difficult but usually I can get the grasp of things, but french is rough.

Also, I find it weird to read about a semester ending at the end of august.
I know school and university periods greatly vary even at short distances (the closest example that comes to my mind is in Germany), but it still gives a strange feeling.

It's all messed up thanks to the pandemic. At the best of times, universities around here worked quite different from each other, with them having similar but different teaching periods, but the method of teaching at distance made it really messy.

I'm rather glad, as the last few weeks were hellish in the amount of stuff I had to do, and it was doing a number on me. Oh well.

Something I found that'll help me categorize the issue numbers is a site that registers comics published in Brazil, and note where it was created, when, and under what name. It really makes it easy to see what issues were which, as it explains what specific stories of the Italian line the Historical Edition covered. Turns out (Rather painfully for my organizational method) that the relation isn't exactly 1 to 3, so I'll need to revamp the translation thread too. It'll make things take a while longer, but better be slow and sure than quick and having to redo everything.

 

[Armorchompy]

I had a bit of french in middle school a few years ago, so maybe that helps, but spanish is definitely the most adjacent

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Oh man, I got to the best Zagor story so far: The Death Ray, the one where Hellingen really goes in with the crazy stuff.

I'm halfway through it but Hellingen has already shown to be a stupidly massive genius. He has invented an universal translation device for all earthly languages as a side project, while his main one was capable of using what appears to be radio waves from his description to detect noises, signals and communications, and he has used it to notice whirlwinds forming in the depths oceans on the other side of the world, atmospheric dischages from any point of the globe and the communications of an alien device, and he has been able to understand akkronian technology, with which he had no contact or familiarity whatsoever beforehand, and was way beyond anything he himself had ever built, with minimal adjustment and quickness, and in the timeframe of what appears to be less than a month, has learned how to build spaceships that are better than those used by akkronian scouts, and is considered a brother in intelligence of even the smartest akkronian present.

Plus, akkronians are physically the most haxxed beings so far in Zagor. They are all physically superior to him, at least in toughness, resist a lot of haxes and are almost unkillable. They use weapons that can mummify any being instantly, and their tech is just insane for a Bonelli comic. Thankfully, in this issue, Zagor gets Rakum's Bow and Shield, which allows him to attract and nullify the rays wielded by the akkronians, and the bow can, in turn, mummify the akkronians with a single shot.

 

[SamanPatou]

Something I found that'll help me categorize the issue numbers is a site that registers comics published in Brazil, and note where it was created, when, and under what name. It really makes it easy to see what issues were which, as it explains what specific stories of the Italian line the Historical Edition covered. Turns out (Rather painfully for my organizational method) that the relation isn't exactly 1 to 3, so I'll need to revamp the translation thread too. It'll make things take a while longer, but better be slow and sure than quick and having to redo everything.

I like seeing these old websites made just for pure passion, probably a memory of a period when the comics were more popular.


About Zagor, Helligen's intelligence section will be fun to read, although a feat blog might be better and allow to list more examples and properly. Generally, I like lists of technical inventionts and achievements.
Also, the bow and shield could work as optional equipment. Do the arrows work only on Akkronians? Otherwise, that's a really powerful hax for him.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

I like seeing these old websites made just for pure passion, probably a memory of a period when the comics were more popular.

Me too! To this day it is updated, actually, it's just that the focus is less on the Bonelli comics and their contemporaries, and now on manga, at least in that site.

About Zagor, Helligen's intelligence section will be fun to read, although a feat blog might be better and allow to list more examples and properly. Generally, I like lists of technical inventionts and achievements.

And it will be fun to write. But no worries, I'll explain most intelligence feats in the Feats section, similarly to Willer's own.

It'll be fun to write his profile, too. He is frail physically, but his tolerance to injury and willpower are actually insane. He has recovered from being harpooned in the heart, being caught up by an explosion that left him severely burnt and nearly dead, and being caught by flaming debris while unconscious. It is explicitly stated that he has only survived until now because his sheer hatred for initially Zagor, later extended to pretty much everything, is so great that he doesn't allows himself to die.

I wonder how other villains would react to each other. It'd be interesting to see how, say, Kandrax, Rakosi and Hellingen would react to each other. I also like to think how much the world would change if the Bonelli heroes never existed in their timelines. In Tex, I can already say that the United States would be way smaller than it is nowadays and there'd be a couple more nations in the world, and some terrifyingly powerful criminal organizations would pretty much rule, and Mexico would probably be the major power of the Americas, but only as a corrupt front for the criminal organizations that pulled the strings. Montales would've never ascended and the position of Governor of Mexico would've gone to his corrupt rivals, Custer would have been killed very early on and the Battle of Little Bighorn would have never happened.

For Zagor I can't even imagine. The world would be really screwed, and I fully expect that the entirety of North America would be drastically changed. Kandrax would probably suceed in stablishing a new celtic nation, Rakosi's domains would expand and make a new vampire-dominated kingdom, Hellingen would probably manage to take over the United States with his machinery...

Also, the bow and shield could work as optional equipment. Do the arrows work only on Akkronians? Otherwise, that's a really powerful hax for him.

I'll include them for sure, as they are constantly referenced all throughout the remainder of the series, until the End of the World saga, where... Things change.

It's unclear. On the very least, it works on being similar to akkronians, who are basically half-plant beings. It's implied in the End of the World that it could also work on other beings, but I don't recall the specifics. It'll take awhile until I get there.

 

[SamanPatou]

I wonder how other villains would react to each other. It'd be interesting to see how, say, Kandrax, Rakosi and Hellingen would react to each other.

Villains meeting each other is always interesting, and even more when they fight each other.

I also like to think how much the world would change if the Bonelli heroes never existed in their timelines. In Tex, I can already say that the United States would be way smaller than it is nowadays and there'd be a couple more nations in the world, and some terrifyingly powerful criminal organizations would pretty much rule, and Mexico would probably be the major power of the Americas, but only as a corrupt front for the criminal organizations that pulled the strings. Montales would've never ascended and the position of Governor of Mexico would've gone to his corrupt rivals, Custer would have been killed very early on and the Battle of Little Bighorn would have never happened.

This is a cool question, and I didn't think Tex could be so influencing. Like, he alone changed the world's history so much, and without even knowing it.

Kandrax would probably suceed in stablishing a new celtic nation.

This is.. something, I guess? It sounds so weird, lol.


Without Harlan the world wouldn't be drastically different (for now) but it would be a worst place to live.
There would be more wars and more crime. Vampires aren't interested in taking over the world or changing it that much, they care about keeping their existence secret, maintain their position of power and make sure they can safely continue to feed on humans.
Although, one of them had a plan to join forces with alternate versions of himself to expand his influence, and Harlan halted his plan, that might have had big consequences.
Aside from vampires, there are ghosts, monsters, undeads, evil men and various creatures from other worlds that would roam the planet and exploit humans and various resources, although they would mostly hide themselves (while carrying out their business), be stuck in a specific place or disappear overtime, but quite a lot more people would have died.

Harlan and his allies managed to prevent Cthulhu from awakening, and god knows what would have happened (other than a massive earthquake like this), but Aleister Crowley prevented the true awakening of Cthulhu, and since he is still alive (long story) and works for Caleb, he might have helped once again.
Also, the followers of the Great Old One might be more influent, and so would be the members of the Other Side (the "demon empire").
Also, this city would have been destroyed by a pyromancer unable to control her powers.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Villains meeting each other is always interesting, and even more when they fight each other.

Indeed. It's a shame, so far, no villains in Zagor really met each other. I know this will change a bit in the End of the World arc, but it'll be a long while until I get there.

This is a cool question, and I didn't think Tex could be so influencing. Like, he alone changed the world's history so much, and without even knowing it

And that's because I really summed up things, he did a lot more things that'd change the world, especially in a local area, as he mainly takes down crooks that are hassling just a town.

For me, the moments Tex changed the world the most were:

• Prevented Custer's assassination before the campaign that would give way to the Battle of Little Bighorn, and thus, the defeat of the Sioux people.
• Stopped two or three different conspiracies of the - then corrupt - Mexican government that would take off significant slices of USA's south.
• Took part in the Mexican revolution and not only he knocked down the corrupt authorities and made Montales governor, but he returned multiple times to help him keep or return to his position.
• Prevented Prince Sumarkand's plot, that would result in the breakage of the USA and conquest of a large part of its territories. In fact, I'm really anxious to get to Sumarkand's issues, he is, by far, one of the best Tex characters and certainly one of the better villains. He'll be a fun one to make a profile of.

This is.. something, I guess? It sounds so weird, lol.

Yeah, Zagor villains are nuts. Kandrax is an old, celtic druid that has been accidentally ressurrected by Chico and Digging Bill, and he is one of the most powerful spellcasters in the series. His main objective is to rebuild the celtic nation of settlers that had originally stablished themselves in american soil.

The USA would become a fantasy world with sci-fi elements with Hellingen, Rakosi and Kandrax running amok. It almost makes me sad to see that they failed.

Without Harlan the world wouldn't be drastically different (for now) but it would be a worst place to live.
There would be more wars and more crime. Vampires aren't interested in taking over the world or changing it that much, they care about keeping their existence secret, maintain their position of power and make sure they can safely continue to feed on humans.
Although, one of them had a plan to join forces with alternate versions of himself to expand his influence, and Harlan halted his plan, that might have had big consequences.
Aside from vampires, there are ghosts, monsters, undeads, evil men and various creatures from other worlds that would roam the planet and exploit humans and various resources, although they would mostly hide themselves (while carrying out their business), be stuck in a specific place or disappear overtime, but quite a lot more people would have died.

Harlan and his allies managed to prevent Cthulhu from awakening, and god knows what would have happened (other than a massive earthquake like this), but Aleister Crowley prevented the true awakening of Cthulhu, and since he is still alive (long story) and works for Caleb, he might have helped once again.
Also, the followers of the Great Old One might be more influent, and so would be the members of the Other Side (the "demon empire").
Also, this city would have been destroyed by a pyromancer unable to control her powers.

Preventing Cthulhu from awakening is definetly "changed the world" material in my book. Kudos to Harlan.

After finishing Zagor's story facing a boxer, I might need to clarify in his profile that someone simply "keeping up" with Zagor isn't enough to stat them at his level, and that probably extends to most Bonelli protagonists. They usually limit themselves and do not go at 100% in most situations. And they are low-tiered enough that, often, even a perfectly normal person like one of us could probably cause them some pain or hurt them with an unexpected or unguarded attack that they didn't ready themselves to take.

I mention that because there's an issue that a very notorious Zagor character, Guitar Jim, fights with Zagor, and they exchange some blows. Jim does make Zagor bleed from the mouth and clearly causes him pain with his blows, but Zagor is mostly untroubled for most of the fight, he wins, and not only that, every time Zagor really wants to in other issues, he easily beats up Jim or even KOs him with a single strike, and Jim just lacks the feats, physicality or statements to tier him similarly to Zagor.

For someone to really scale to a Bonelli character, imo, is a bit of a case-by-case analysis, but usually it's safe to tier them together if they are treated as an utter physical menace to them, if during the fight they perform similar feats or if they are clearly superior or equal to during the whole storyline.

Also, funnily enough, in that issue Zagor faced a boxing champion named Rocky Thorpe, and during the boxing match itself, Zagor was physically overpowered, although he still won through superior stamina, speed and tactics, but once they fought in the streets, not only Zagor won again, but he seemed to do it easier and without any problem of matching him blow-to-blow. While I think Rocky does scale up to Zagor significantly due to the way he is portrayed during the storyline, it would be erroneous to affirm that he's exactly superior or even equal, as it appears in the issue that Zagor somehow limits himself in a boxing match. Which is quite understandable, really, from my experience in sparring inside the ring.

 

[SamanPatou]

Them being closer to reality makes this possible without inconsistencies of problems, mostly because a 10-B can still hurt a 9-C without necessarily scaling to them.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Yup.

That boxing episode is actually great in new feats. Zagor sent a punching bag flying with a single strike, ripping the rope that held it in place, and in ten strikes he completely tore up the bag. He also punched Rocky hard enough into the ring's ropes to violently snap them and threw a man through a door, completely demolishing it. As for Rocky himself, he bent iron bars with his bare hands, headbutted a hole into a wooden wall, smashed a table in half with a casual strike... He's friggin stronk-

If Punch Out characters weren't so far above baseline, it'd be great to make some matches with them. Still, with speed equalized, Rocky may find himself against another Rocky (or maybe Clubber Lang to get more diversity in matches) or a staple of Latin America culture...

 

[EliminatorVenom]

I'm mostly finished with Tex's rewrite. There's still plenty more to reference, but sadly, the site I used to help me correlate the different editions between the brazilian Historical Edition and the italian line wasn't updated properly for most of the issues I covered in the profile, which were the first 15. So, to progress, I had to go to each issue individually and almost re-read it, while also looking at Bonelli's online shop, and even then I had to guess as I couldn't simply download the comics and try to cross-reference the issues. I think I got most of them right, but I'm really uncertain if I misattributed some comics. Again, if I did, it's probably minor and easy to fix later once I manage to solve the problem, but man, is that more work intensive than I expected.

In any case, I think it's ready to put on the content revision thread, since all that's left are a few more references, maybe with a bit more polishing in the Dynamite section, as I think it could be better structured. In any case, what do you guys think?

 

[SamanPatou]

It's a masterpiece, really well made and you can see the effort put in it. I especially like the details in the standard equipment.

The only think I find a bit out of place is referencing calcs having been made, in the speed section, I'd reword it a bit, it sounds a bit fourt-wall-breaking-ish, but it's just my nitpick.

Lastly, the line about Dynamite digging Tex out of the ground leads to him hearing commands kilometers away.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

It's a masterpiece, really well made and you can see the effort put in it. I especially like the details in the standard equipment.

Thanks a lot! c:

The only think I find a bit out of place is referencing calcs having been made, in the speed section, I'd reword it a bit, it sounds a bit fourt-wall-breaking-ish, but it's just my nitpick.

Oh yeah, I forgot to link them to the feats. I left it there so I could work out a way to implement it later. Thanks for the heads-up!

Lastly, the line about Dynamite digging Tex out of the ground leads to him hearing commands kilometers away.

I think those two feats happen in the same scan? I remember that there was a feat there that's basically a duplicate, but I'm unsure. In any case, I'll check it out and polish it a tiny bit, and then, to the content revision thread it is!

By the way, just below Tex's profile, I made the profiles for the two minor Zagor antagonists. I present to you Togo and Otto Kraus! The next main Zagor villain I'll make will probably be the King of Eagles, and the Iron Man minor villain, as they are very simple and easy to make. Iron Man is also a one-issue villain but man he'll be interesting to make.

It's funny that, in Tex's case, there will be way less profiles of the type since he ends up killing most villains VERY early on. They barely get any chance to do interesting stuff. If a villain survives for long enough to be interesting in a non-storyline sense, with remarkable feats, he's probably going to wind up a main villain later.

 

[SamanPatou]

Old Man Otto surely knows how to pack a punch despite the age.

This is a rather interesting and wise thing, it surprised me: Otto fully believes that one should never fight fairly against an unknown opponent

Also, what's with all these people slicing things apart with chops, it's weirdly frequent.

The profiles are good, Togo's image just has to be bigger and maybe centered.

 

[SamanPatou]

Also, the Black Wolves remind me of the Blue Wolves, an organization in Dampyr, although they are completely different, at least from what I read of the Black Wolves.

It's funny that, in Tex's case, there will be way less profiles of the type since he ends up killing most villains VERY early on. They barely get any chance to do interesting stuff. If a villain survives for long enough to be interesting in a non-storyline sense, with remarkable feats, he's probably going to wind up a main villain later.

I wonder how much of this is due to actual writing decisions or the fact that most stories have to begin and end in a single issue, but most likely is both of them.
That's also frequent in Dampyr (and Tex had a lot of influence in the series), some villains return, but realistically you can't keep all of them.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Old Man Otto surely knows how to pack a punch despite the age.

Yeah. He's actually one of the very few villains that managed to match up against Zagor in one on one and actually win. While it isn't unusual for Zagor to be beat down, it usually involves people ganging up on him, some hidden advantage or something. Otto is one of the few that went up against Zagor in his own element and won. Of all comics I've read, until now, the only people that could make a similar claim are Super Mike and maybe Togo.

As a side note, in a fight between Otto and Togo, I'd bet on Togo if they were unarmed, Otto if he could use his weapons. Togo feels a bit more durable in a storyline sense and his pressure point strikes to the neck are absolutely ridiculous, but Otto is more skilled, and they are close enough that, just like how Zagor beat Togo once he got his hands on the hatchet, Otto could beat him the moment he started using his whip, knife or revolver.

This is a rather interesting and wise thing, it surprised me: Otto fully believes that one should never fight fairly against an unknown opponent

I fully agree with him, and not only that, he kind of used that to teach Zagor a point. Zagor is so used to demolishing absolutely everyone in a straight fight with their fists that he doesn't consider the possibility of losing and ends up more overconfident. When Zagor discovered that Otto, even when tired and mentally exhausted, was actually way tougher a cookie than the other crooks he was used to beat, well... It went badly.

Cus D'Amato, the boxing coach who famously trained Mike Tyson, once remarked something interesting about this, and it went something like: In a contest between two men with equal skill, the one who will win is the one with the superior will to win. Unless his skill is so far above the opponent that his will isn't tested, the one with a greater will to win will always win.

Zagor was used to, at that point of the story, fighting people who rarely tested his will in melee combat, so when that finally happened, the desperate, better-trained and far more brutal Otto won.

Also, what's with all these people slicing things apart with chops, it's weirdly frequent.

Yeah, it's one of the things that made them remarkable to me. In Zagor comics in general, eastern, particularly chinese, martial arts are usually associated with people being able to chop things with their hands.

The profiles are good, Togo's image just has to be bigger and maybe centered.

Sadly, Togo is really lacking in good images. I combed the whole issue twice, but all of his images are really small. The best I found on the second combing is from this panel but it's still small. Maybe the profile itself will be image-less and have a gallery of moments, but I dunno.

Also, the Black Wolves remind me of the Blue Wolves, an organization in Dampyr, although they are completely different, at least from what I read of the Black Wolves.

Curious. What are the Blue Wolves about?

I wonder how much of this is due to actual writing decisions or the fact that most stories have to begin and end in a single issue, but most likely is both of them.
That's also frequent in Dampyr (and Tex had a lot of influence in the series), some villains return, but realistically you can't keep all of them.

To be honest, I feel like it's more of a statement about Tex's character in general and the kind of story he usually is depicted. Realistically, Tex would rarely if ever meet villains more than once, even if they survived his wrath, as he is usually travelling all around the world and most people are not vengeful enough to stalk someone like Tex, and surviving is harder because, just like real life, people tend to stay down when shot. His stories are also more about an episodic thing, not that dissimilar to series like Supernatural, with a "villain of the week".
And yeah, I kind of prefer that way, really. While I can appreciate the colorful cast that, say, Zagor has and how much they reappear, I favour a type of story where the consequences are more set in stone. If for some reason a character gets popular, a side-story or something can be done.

 

[SamanPatou]

surviving is harder because, just like real life, people tend to stay down when shot.

This line is gold.

Sadly, Togo is really lacking in good images. I combed the whole issue twice, but all of his images are really small. The best I found on the second combing is from this panel but it's still small. Maybe the profile itself will be image-less and have a gallery of moments, but I dunno.

Maybe the current image but in a better definition can work, but even imageless is good.

Curious. What are the Blue Wolves about?

They are an international organization, which resembles a "progressive nazism".
Basically they are inspired by Gengis Khan, as Blue Wolf was his epithet, and believe in a society led by supermen.
Most of them are no more than thugs that like spending the night at a pub and doing generic vandalism, and are deliberately racist, but the organization itself is open to every nationality and etnicity, but the members have to prove their superiority over commoners, although this has never been explained in detail.
The higher ranks have connections with criminal organizations and have weapons and force at their disposal, and have been recurring enemies of Harlan and his team for the first 100 issues.
They also have specific aims that are connected with general plot elements, but I'm not going to tell them all now.
Their leader is the descendant of one of the people that tried to push for a separate peace between UK and Germany in 1940, along with some members of the MI6.
One of the recurring themes of said first 100 issues was exactly about english secret services during the second world war, with many connections and details about the first too.
As the series pushes for realism, historical accuracy and story telling that branches out of the very theme of the series, they tell much about the argument.
It isn't unusual to read issues telling about real stories or legends and their characters although modified for plot purposes, and not Harlan and his team themselves, that often stay behind and hear these stories (there's always a reason for these stories to be told to them, obviously).
This because Boselli is extremely cultured and has read, like, hundreds of books on a variety of arguments and tries to insert them in the story, and so do other authors.

To be honest, I feel like it's more of a statement about Tex's character in general and the kind of story he usually is depicted. Realistically, Tex would rarely if ever meet villains more than once, even if they survived his wrath, as he is usually travelling all around the world and most people are not vengeful enough to stalk someone like Tex, and surviving is harder because, just like real life, people tend to stay down when shot. His stories are also more about an episodic thing, not that dissimilar to series like Supernatural, with a "villain of the week".
And yeah, I kind of prefer that way, really. While I can appreciate the colorful cast that, say, Zagor has and how much they reappear, I favour a type of story where the consequences are more set in stone. If for some reason a character gets popular, a side-story or something can be done.

I didn't imagine Tex could be so fierce and terrifying, but I suppose it adds more to his character and is also more realistic.
Like, Boselli made a statement about this thing, which was basically like "I (and we as writers in general) can't let all villains survive and escape to return in other issues, otherwise Harlan (and his pards) would be really bad at their job!"

In that sense, Dampyr also stars that kind of formula of the "villain of the month", but it isn't inherently a bad thing.
Some characters had potential, while other times they aren't super brilliant, but the very most of the times they, or their story, setting or else is interesting.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

I made the CRT! If possible, I'd like for you guys to give this an initial push. Bonelli comics characters shall have the bestest and shiniest profiles here~

This line is gold.

And true-

Maybe the current image but in a better definition can work, but even imageless is good.

Mmmm, I'll try. Maybe on some site that can increase the size of images without messing up the resolution...

They are an international organization, which resembles a "progressive nazism".
Basically they are inspired by Gengis Khan, as Blue Wolf was his epithet, and believe in a society led by supermen.
Most of them are no more than thugs that like spending the night at a pub and doing generic vandalism, and are deliberately racist, but the organization itself is open to every nationality and etnicity, but the members have to prove their superiority over commoners, although this has never been explained in detail.
The higher ranks have connections with criminal organizations and have weapons and force at their disposal, and have been recurring enemies of Harlan and his team for the first 100 issues.
They also have specific aims that are connected with general plot elements, but I'm not going to tell them all now.
Their leader is the descendant of one of the people that tried to push for a separate peace between UK and Germany in 1940, along with some members of the MI6.
One of the recurring themes of said first 100 issues was exactly about english secret services during the second world war, with many connections and details about the first too.
As the series pushes for realism, historical accuracy and story telling that branches out of the very theme of the series, they tell much about the argument.
It isn't unusual to read issues telling about real stories or legends and their characters although modified for plot purposes, and not Harlan and his team themselves, that often stay behind and hear these stories (there's always a reason for these stories to be told to them, obviously).
This because Boselli is extremely cultured and has read, like, hundreds of books on a variety of arguments and tries to insert them in the story, and so do other authors.

I really, really like this. As I mentioned before, I'm a history nerd, so this is especially compelling to me. It also sounds as extremely well-structured.

I really ought to give Dampyr a shot after this. Heh, it's funny how in this thread it's almost like a convention between fans, each with their own specialties. I have Tex and Zagor, you have Dampyr, Twellas is Dylan Dog, Armor knows a bit of everything.

I didn't imagine Tex could be so fierce and terrifying, but I suppose it adds more to his character and is also more realistic.
Like, Boselli made a statement about this thing, which was basically like "I (and we as writers in general) can't let all villains survive and escape to return in other issues, otherwise Harlan (and his pards) would be really bad at their job!"

Exactly! They may have some qualms against killing, but characters that cannot solve a situation in a definite manner, in the case that they have such an option, do not really seem competent. If killing is to be avoided, at least an alternative should be thought of.

Tex is oddly carefree, to be honest. While his actions are completely ruthless, at times hilariously so (Like when he gets "playful" with explosives and fire), his thought process and behaviour are actually very chill. He isn't someone to laugh at things, but he seems to only take any given situation semi-seriously. He refers to burning down a crook's property as "playing a trick" on them, and kidnapping them and leaving them somewhere isolated for hours as a practical joke, and even when he is hopelessly outgunned and shot at, he usually limits himself to commenting that people must be mad at something he did. The situation needs to be really grim or something really bad must've happened for him to not joke at all, even if his humour is usually acidic.

But anyone who was caught on Tex's sights while he was absolutely serious have nightmares about him. At least one storyline had someone having hallucinations of him after being pursued by him for some time, kind of similar to that Punisher story in Marvel. And it's justified. The things he did to the guys who killed his wife are chilling.

In that sense, Dampyr also stars that kind of formula of the "villain of the month", but it isn't inherently a bad thing.
Some characters had potential, while other times they aren't super brilliant, but the very most of the times they, or their story, setting or else is interesting.

I fully agree. Not only it makes sense for characters that tend to end threats rather extremely from the get-go, but it provides a lot of variety.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

I was looking for some matches for Tex. Zagor is easier as he is an archetype of character that is easily matched with most 9-B and Subsonic characters, but Tex is harder, as he usually kills most 9-C to 9-B characters I've seen that he can wound with guns by being that much better-skilled with guns or he is stomped by them being able to easily tank his weapons from the get-go, and there are few characters that really fit with him for a thematic match...

Any ideas? I thought of Sudo Kaname but I've read Darwin's Game and his profile is very outdated, I'd need to revise him and then do the match. Rex Marksley is ironically one of the few cases that Tex is skillstomped.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Also, I've got to an issue that Zagor goes through 12 trials, inspired by those of Hercules. It is a big goldmine of feats, almost as big - although not as impressive - as the Akrronian Invasion arc.

So far, some impressive tidbits:

• Zagor takes two sleeping gas bombs to finally faint, with even one almost instantly knocking down immensely muscular men, and even then he recovers way quicker than anyone who were hit with only one.
• Manages to choke an immense mountain lion to death, although with difficulties.
• Manages to break the neck and tear the jaws of an immense snake, although again with difficulties.
• Zagor will gain Rage Power for sure. Not only so far he has consistently beaten people when motivated by strong enough emotions (Usually a sense of justice), but this issue explicitly stated that Zagor's accumulated rage can multiply his strength. What he used it for? Simple: He tore off a metal door off its hinges so strongly it broke off parts of a wall. It's a small thing, but this might be Class 5-ish LS.
• And lastly, Zagor fought with, and killed, Cerberus! In this case, it was a dog created by a lot of genetic manipulation from a crazed dude, and it was taller and way stronger than a man, and of course, three-headed. It scales as beyond any creature Zagor fought with in those trials, which include a gigantic mountain lion, an immense snake and a very large moose with razor-sharp antlers and iron horseshoes, fully trained for war.

 

[SamanPatou]

I was looking for some matches for Tex. Zagor is easier as he is an archetype of character that is easily matched with most 9-B and Subsonic characters, but Tex is harder, as he usually kills most 9-C to 9-B characters I've seen that he can wound with guns by being that much better-skilled with guns or he is stomped by them being able to easily tank his weapons from the get-go, and there are few characters that really fit with him for a thematic match...

Any ideas? I thought of Sudo Kaname but I've read Darwin's Game and his profile is very outdated, I'd need to revise him and then do the match. Rex Marksley is ironically one of the few cases that Tex is skillstomped.

I'll think about something, gunslingers are rather difficult to put against.

I think John Marston would be an interesting opponent, at least thematically, althout his Dead Eye might be a little broken.
I can see Tex against other 9-C weapon users like characters from GTA, Far Cry and such.
Maybe even Aliens and Predators, who knows.

 

[SamanPatou]

Also, I've got to an issue that Zagor goes through 12 trials, inspired by those of Hercules. It is a big goldmine of feats, almost as big - although not as impressive - as the Akrronian Invasion arc.

So far, some impressive tidbits:

• Zagor takes two sleeping gas bombs to finally faint, with even one almost instantly knocking down immensely muscular men, and even then he recovers way quicker than anyone who were hit with only one.
• Manages to choke an immense mountain lion to death, although with difficulties.
• Manages to break the neck and tear the jaws of an immense snake, although again with difficulties.
• Zagor will gain Rage Power for sure. Not only so far he has consistently beaten people when motivated by strong enough emotions (Usually a sense of justice), but this issue explicitly stated that Zagor's accumulated rage can multiply his strength. What he used it for? Simple: He tore off a metal door off its hinges so strongly it broke off parts of a wall. It's a small thing, but this might be Class 5-ish LS.
• And lastly, Zagor fought with, and killed, Cerberus! In this case, it was a dog created by a lot of genetic manipulation from a crazed dude, and it was taller and way stronger than a man, and of course, three-headed. It scales as beyond any creature Zagor fought with in those trials, which include a gigantic mountain lion, an immense snake and a very large moose with razor-sharp antlers and iron horseshoes, fully trained for war.

Resistance to sleep and Rage power + a specific boost, not bad at all.
Also, choking a mountain lion to death sounds cool.
How did he kill Cerberus?

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Resistance to sleep and Rage power + a specific boost, not bad at all.

Indeed! Usually the boost is more in the line of dominating and stomping people that were otherwise equal to him (Super Mike is the biggest example of this) or managing to keep up with people who were otherwise very superior. (Bela Rakosi and the Wolf Man) This time we have an actual feat.

Also, choking a mountain lion to death sounds cool.

I prefer the scan that he tore up the snake's jaws, but it's cool too.

How did he kill Cerberus?

Smacking it really hard with the hatchet. The fight itself is (surprisingly) offscreen, with only the start being shown (And, indeed, Zagor can keep the big dog at bay with his hatchet), and he manages to beat it seemingly unscathed.

Zagor will also be significantly stronger with the hatchet. The profile as it is already indicates this, but now we have a very solid basis. He managed to one-shot the moose with one hatchet throw, despite him himself saying that physically he can't do anything at all to him. With the hatchet he also managed to kill the mountain lion and cerberus who are way stronger than Zagor.

Also, as a side note: Bela Rakosi V.S. Van Helsing! I hope you guys like the match.

 

[SamanPatou]

That freaking ass stone hatchet is weirdly strong lol, it's not even a magical weapon and it still sounds like Mjolnir.

The match is a good idea, I'll check it out tonorrow.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

That freaking ass stone hatchet is weirdly strong lol, it's not even a magical weapon and it still sounds like Mjolnir.

The best part is that it isn't even a special hatchet. He has broken or lost it several times and just remakes it. It's explained that his sheer skill with one makes the hatchet way more effective than it usually is.

The match is a good idea, I'll check it out tonorrow.

Thanks! I also made Tex V.S. John Wick.

I'll be posting Otto's and Togo's profiles today, and work on something else while that goes. I'll wait to do Zagor's rework once I finish up the Record line of publications, which will take a while still.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Okay, good news! I updated the verse page to include Togo's and Otto's portraits, along with the aforementioned profiles, with their resolutions amped! Thanks to that, I found an excellent site to do so, I'm grateful for that. I already thought of another match: Otto V.S. Niko Bellic from GTA IV! I find it a bit thematic, as they both waged war in other countries, but whilst Otto is a bastard that caused suffering and reveled in that, Niko came traumatized and to be away from exactly that kind of man. Niko probably wins, but it's thematic, so it's cool!

In the meantime, I'll be working a bit on other verses, Swords and Sandals and Dwarf Fortress, while I go on with the Zagor issues. I'm through 1/4 of Record's publication. and after I'm done with it (While reading a bit of Tex too on the side since I can't stay put focusing on just one thing), I'll probably focus on Nathan Never, as there are so few issues I could get my hands on that it may be worth to read all of them at once and then make a profile based on that, with updates coming from either I finding a few more issues or you guys getting something. I'm also curious to see what Magic Wind is all about, so I may check it up too.

 

[SamanPatou]

Iirc Magic Wind is a supernatural western, with plenty of dark themes and stuff.
I've never read it, but this is what I remember from people talking about it.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Okie-dokie, I'll check it out later!

The next characters I'll try to make profiles of will probably be Iron Man and the King of Eagles. Before I make any Tex characters, I'd rather read +15 issues of the historical edition, to fill the gap of feats that Tex has before anyone else.

Also, do you guys think Tex might be Class 1 and Wall level, or at least Street+ level? For AP, he has the feats of breaking a wooden wall with an unarmed strike and punching a man all across two hotel rooms and the hallway between them, knocking down a door on the way. There's also another feat that I haven't gotten to in the historical edition yet, so I can't say what number it is in the original italian publication, that he punches a guy through a wooden wall. He did note that the wood must've been really bad, but it also looked like the kind of joke he'd crack at that kind of situation. As for LS, well, check the LS section of the profile. The feats really feel like either Class 1 or top-tier Peak Human.

Also, some speed feats from the issues I haven't gotten to yet in the Historical Edition: Tex pushes a man out of the way of an arrow after it was fired and a man, who in the story scaled as below the likes of Tex and his pards but still a fantastic ranger, just turned his head out of the way of a close-range revolver shot, when he had his back TURNED to the dude.

 

[Armorchompy]

The bale feat might be Class 1, as for the metal bending ones they might even get into Class 5. The neck-breaking feat is also Class 1 the way it's done. Unfortunately I... kinda don't know how to do the latter, really oughta look into it one of these days

 

[EliminatorVenom]

I'm a bit more than halfway done with the Zagor comics, and geez, I've just seen the first Tier 7 feats.

In Zagor Speciale 2°, The Stone/Rock that Kills, there's a living, man-sized diamond that got to earth within a meteor, with said meteor being bombarded by an extremely violent lightning storm, the likes of which I don't think are possible in real life. It also seemingly survived/caused a massive explosion that knocked down a huge rock formation. It's only a maybe, though, as the explosion was caused by a chain reaction.

However, in the Eternal Man story, there's a villain that's an alchemist who has a huge, uranium goblet that will enable him to brew the Elixir of Life. After Zagor sabotages the reaction and the goblet goes critical, the resulting explosion levels a whole, albeit small, mountain with a mushroom cloud explosion that's visible from very afar. Apparently, the dude survived despite being almost at point-blank range, although I really doubt he'd scale from it, as we haven't seen him yet and, this being a Bonelli comic, a logical explanation will be given.

Bonus points: Zagor comics are significantly less accurate in portraying societies and history than Tex, Martin Mystére and Mister No, and not just because of the fantastic elements. The Chinese Idol story arc makes a japanese sumo wrestler appear with no explanation at all, and the swords that are portrayed there are all of middle-eastern design. The Celtic druids apparently spoke and wrote in greek... with the greek symbols being suspiciously similar to nordic runes. The samurai bushido apparently forbid them of using firearms and eating meat, both of them untrue. (I mean, the meat part has some credit but it's not a bushido thing)

It's a bit of rambling, but it's a funny thing to notice.

 

[Armorchompy]

Tier 7 Zagor would be really funny and totally the kinda thing we'd get an half-assed upgrade thread for every month or so if Bonelli was as popular as Marvel/DC

 

[EliminatorVenom]

I think I just found a very fitting match for Tex. I dare anyone to say otherwise!

But before doing that match, I wanted to ask: Would I need to do a CRT to make a feats section to that profile, adding explanations and stuff? As the profile is a bit bare-bones, I wanted to revise it, with the feats of a Reddit RT and using what I remember of the films.

 

[Armorchompy]

That would probably require a CRT yeah

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Okie dokie. I'll try to organize the CRT, then. It should be fairly simple. Ideally, I'd rewatch the films and really account everything, but frankly, I have little patience for movies and I'm busy with some other stuff, although the Dollars trilogy is a very good one. like reading zagor comics naturally

Which reminds me, resisting cold capable of freezing and causing serious hypothermia grants Heat Resistance, right? I was uploading Zagor's feats and I noticed he has some good cold resistance feats.

 

[Armorchompy]

Okie dokie. I'll try to organize the CRT, then. It should be fairly simple. Ideally, I'd rewatch the films and really account everything, but frankly, I have little patience for movies and I'm busy with some other stuff, although the Dollars trilogy is a very good one. like reading zagor comics naturally

Which reminds me, resisting cold capable of freezing and causing serious hypothermia grants Heat Resistance, right? I was uploading Zagor's feats and I noticed he has some good cold resistance feats.

i'd say so but fairly limited

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Y'know, I usually limit myself to comment about my progress to when there's at least some sort of draft or when all the scans are uploaded, but I had to share this with ya guys.

I just finished reading Thunderman (To compensate, I discovered the Record line of publishing is a bit longer than I initially thought to be, so it'll take a longer while until I'm finished), and this next update to Zagor's profile will be magnificent. Just a minor list of things he'd get, and that's only from feats I remember from the get-go:

• Enhanced skill for his Martial Arts, Power Mimicry limited to martial arts, Information Analysis: In the issue that Zagor faces invading samurai, after fighting them once and being defeated, he not only fully identifies all weaknesses of their fighting style, but can also fight exactly like them. He is also shown stomping several elite native american warriors with incredible ease, explicitly using skill alone, not speed or strength.
• Instinctive Reactions: I don't remember if he already has this in the profile, but if he doesn't, golly gee he got some good IR feats, automatically dodging, swimming and moving without even knowing why or even when unconscious.
• Resistance to Heat: Zagor can easily endure, with no protective clothes whatsoever, freezing climates that force everyone around to use several layers of thick fur clothing; diving into a river cold enough to cover Chico in a thin layer of ice, without any effect, and not only that but going incredibly deep within to the point that water pressure becomes a worry. He can also perform similarly in hot climates, with scorching deserts barely getting a reaction out of him.
• Resistance to Electricity?: Questionable. Zagor does endure lightning bolts from Thunderman far better than everyone else, but I'm unsure to what point that's applicable thanks to his durability and stamina rather than any inherent resistance.
• In general, several abilities are increased, such as Resistance to Mind Manipulation and Supernatural Willpower.
• Lifting Strength: I already told ya guys about the feat that he just tore a iron grate door out of its hinges, breaking off some rocky bits from the stone wall it was attached to. Another similar feat in ridiculousness, once again performed when he was incredibly pissed, involved Zagor being boung on a wooden pole, similar in thickness and size to a tree. After a certain thing happened that made him a bit pissed, Zagor, while still bound, just tore the entire thing off the ground and swung his back at everyone to hit them with the friggin pole. It's certainly Class 5, I think, and not because of weight exactly, but rather because lifting anything in the position he was in is ridiculous. On a more general note, Zagor also pushes a puma with one hand some meters into the air.
• Speed: Eh, not an upgrade, it's just that Zagor has more explicit feats. Of particular note there's one that he reacts to an arrow after it's already fired, by hearing the sound of the arrow zipping through the air towards him. Considering the arrow was at a quite close range, he fully threw himself to the ground and he had to move in the time between the sound arrow reaching him and the arrow to hit, it could make for a good feat.

Of course, the star of the update will be Thunderman, the best character of the wiki, who will get a massively revamped profile. It's hard to guess how he is physically, I'd guess Athletic Human, maybe Street level in durability, as he is extremely well-built and remarked as tough by Zagor, taking a full-speed flying kick from our hatchet boy. With the lightning he's certainly Wall level, he can cause a lot of damage to things, instakill people and wound even Zagor very severely with individual bolts. And that's because he holds back his energy, he can technically output as much energy as he wants, as he has a limited amount of electrical charge within himself, and in theory, could spend it all up in a single bolt, which would probably be Building level, as he absorbed an entire lightning bolt and the energy of a very big, radioactive rock to become, well, Thunderman. But such a scenario should be impossible, he really wouldn't spend his precious powers in a single attack,

As for powers, Thunderman is quite good. He is electrical to the touch, to the point that even a full force strike from Zagor will be practically cancelled out of sheer shock transferred. He has magnetic powers that allow him to move things from afar, he can light things up on fire with his bolts, can generate a brilliant aura of light that extends even to his footsteps... It's just great.

Kandrax is now possible to make as well, he'll have a wide variety of powers.