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Sergio Bonelli Comics Discussion Thread

Well, you know, if he were to kiss or f*ck with a vampire, they'll melt and eventually burn. And yes, it's canon.
Only sweat is safe, actually.

He also had sex with a vampire-ss, but his soul was in another body and that was enough to totally worn her out (not because of the act itself, you lewds) (she didn't know he was in that body and he couldn't control it because another personality was in major control).
 
Thanks! I love to talk about martial arts, I even need to take care of how much I'm talking to not bore other people. But to sum things up, surprisingly, from the scans I've seen so far, Harlan seems to be the one who fights the most realistically. Tex is close but he does some things far too easily and has a lot of western staples such as very wide haymakers and breaking out of grapples by just lowering his posture. Zagor is like Tex but even less realistic (One-handed dropkicks from a huge fall ftw), while I haven't seen Nathan nor Dylan engage in much mano in mano for now.

It's refreshing to see such care for continuity and consequences! While in the comics I read, events are indeed referenced and are ocasionally used to justify some new story arcs and plots, they rarely change the characters themselves. I ought to start reading Dampyr sometime.

That's incredibly metal of Harlan, bathing his own weapons in blood to achieve victory. I would match him against Rakosi but from what I've read thus far, Harlan would crush him, lol. Maybe making a specialized match, with Rakosi having plenty of prep to thrall a population?

Armorchompy said:
hold on, now i wanna hear the context for this one
Click to expand...
same, how did he find out-
 
After meeting with his alien-angel ally, he had his body analyzed, and that's how he found out about most of what it could do, so that's probably the reason he knows it.

Here and there they gave other specific details on his blood, like, a medic said that he regenerates faster than humans because his blood contains an abnormally high quantity of platelets, although it wasn't enough to explain such inhuman ability to recover.
It would still be Mid-Low at most, no crazy Deadpool-like levels of regeneration. Some examples are him recovering in seconds from being grazed by a gunshot in the hand, recovering in some hours from being shot in the chest, recovering in minutes from large slashes on his chest and in similar time from a not very deep cut in his throat. I think the most impressive is recovering in half a day from burns that covered his whole body and entirely scarred his face. (I'm surely missing something atm).

It makes sense for Tex and Zagor to not be martial arts-expert, like, where could have them learnt them at the time? I guess soldiers and such would have received hand-to-hand training, but not like current days, so it makes sense for them to having learnt through experience, and Zagor doing crazy things because he just can.

Rakosi would have a bad day against Harlan, who also resists whatever mind hax he can throw at him, he resists worse hax than what I see in Rakosi's profile.

It would be interesting to see a scenario with enthralled population, Harlan and his allies usually try to spare hypnotized humans, avoiding to hurt them too much or knock them out when possible. If nothing can be done and they absolutely need to do get rid of them, they can even kill them, although they don't like doing it. (they have a different approach with humans who willingly serve and help vampires in their crimes, though, they rarely have mercy for them).
 
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Yeah, in fact, I'd argue that having such a large amount of platlets would justify only a very quick Low regeneration, and due to how the body works, that regeneration would eventually fail if he was wounded repeatedly by the body dispensing too much cells/wasting too much energy regenerating the wounds.

Surprisingly, they do know some martial arts (both by direct statements or indirectly), and I could go on a long while about martial arts in the west and how they should/do have contact with them (please don't tempt me), and even if they didn't, some of the more basic stuff they do (like the large haymakers) should not be done by anyone with experience in unarmed fighting, as it is terrible form in punching. It's just that western trope of large, chaotic fights that feel more like brawls than actual matches. I don't really mind as it is very enjoyable and it is a narrative device not different of their clothing and Tex always liking steak 'n' chips, and ocasionally they do show a lot of skill, but logically, they should fight better than they do. After all, they would have experience in several native american martial methods and have constant contact with arts that were popular in the west at the time, like bare-handed boxing, gouging (nasty, nasty stuff), the staff game and some forms of wrestling.

Yeah, I figured that. Zagor faced the same problem: He was ready to take on Rakosi the second time around and had a lot of experienced allies to do so, but Rakosi had enthralled an entire village's worth of population. If Rakosi had prep to see Harlan coming and gather a large population, it could make an interesting scenario.
 
Oh man, I'll need to get my stuff. I was making swift progress on issues, but I was finding it weird that the issues seemed to not follow chronological order at all. I researched a bit, and I discovered that, here in Brazil, Tex issues were published vastly out of order. The series that published things in the italian order was called Tex Collection and Tex Historical Edition (The latter having more stories and a better quality to the translations and all). So, in order to make a better documentation of things, I'll read the Historical Edition, and explain, in the blog post, what is the deal. Thankfully I initially post stuff on a personal archive, and I only transcribe stuff here on a much more polished note, so you guys don't need to worry, it just means stuff will be published slower than I expected.

My blog posts will end up looking like a wiki article explaining why publishing Bonelli comics in Brazil went so weirdly, lol. Well, it doesn't bother me much, I caught on very quickly and I still got some good stuff (Injured Tex, using his left hand, quickdrawing faster than an expert duellist that had a modified holster that allowed firing from the hip), and it's always a pleasure to read Tex. Nonetheless, yeah, I'll finally read the stuff on the correct order.

I was also looking for some interesting matches. The main problem here was the speed of the contestants, MCU Daredevil and Indiana Jones seemed both very cool matches, but they are Supersonic, which would be fatal for Zagor or Tex as they are still very suscetible to things like gunfire. Interestingly, Gon Freccs in his absolute weakest could make an interesting match against Tex, but I'll hold off on matching Tex before I revise his profile. I was looking for some Draculas to fight Rakosi, and he does surprisingly well against most of 'em. Of course, Untold, Van Helsing's, Castlevania's and Marvel's Draculas tear him apart easily, but Bram Stoker's Dracula is considerably weaker and slower, matching most of his powers and having much greater durability, Hotel Transylvania Dracula is quite close but should win by superior speed and a much greater variety of powers, Blade's Dracula is stronger and could make a very interesting match if Rakosi didn't open up with hypnosis, which he tends to do, and lastly, Netflix's Dracula seems weaker and less versatile, probably losing. Fittingly, Rakosi, a very traditional vampire, would be best matched up against Bram Stoker's Dracula, the grandaddy of them all. Maybe angered, as Rakosi, when angry, prefers to tackle the enemy physically.
 
Well, I once again can't do anything else than admiring your dedication on research, documentation and willingness to explain all of this in a blog, and also your will to start again despite all these problems.
I look forward to see the results!

About the speed, remember that it can be equalized, so the matches you proposed (or at least some) can still be done.
Btw, when you mentioned Netflix Dracula I thought you meant him, lol.

(Also, the grandaddy of all vampires is Lord Ruthven, not Dracula, although the latter is more famous 👀).
 
SamanPatou said:
Well, I once again can't do anything else than admiring your dedication on research, documentation and willingness to explain all of this in a blog, and also your will to start again despite all these problems.
I look forward to see the results!
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Awe, thanks! I don't even see it as a problem, after all, I mostly read Tex for the entertainment; Making it a VS-able verse and scanning stuff is more of a bonus thing.

SamanPatou said:
About the speed, remember that it can be equalized, so the matches you proposed (or at least some) can still be done.
Btw, when you mentioned Netflix Dracula I thought you meant him, lol.
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Yeah, I thought about it, but speed equalizing feels... I dunno, way too overdone. Besides, if those characters are only Supersonic, depending on the future speed calculations that we get, a Subsonic+ difference is perfectly acceptable. In fact, for Zagor at least, we do have some very solid speed feats to calc, don't we? I might post 'em on the calculation request thread.

Dearie me, no. Rakosi would get his sorry butt kicked all over the place.
SamanPatou said:
(Also, the grandaddy of all vampires is Lord Ruthven, not Dracula, although the latter is more famous 👀).
Click to expand...
Ooooh, I didn't know that! That ties in in some material I've read before that had vampires named Ruthven, like Vampire: The Masquerade. Everyday I learn something new.
 
EliminatorVenom said:
Yeah, I thought about it, but speed equalizing feels... I dunno, way too overdone. Besides, if those characters are only Supersonic, depending on the future speed calculations that we get, a Subsonic+ difference is perfectly acceptable. In fact, for Zagor at least, we do have some very solid speed feats to calc, don't we? I might post 'em on the calculation request thread..
Click to expand...
I know, it's a bit off, but sometimes it's the only way to make matches fair.
We'll see about calcs, because from the little I know even an apparently small difference in numbers is actually a large one in a fight, but someone more expert than me (Armor) might confirm of confute.

EliminatorVenom said:
Ooooh, I didn't know that! That ties in in some material I've read before that had vampires named Ruthven, like Vampire: The Masquerade. Everyday I learn something new.
Click to expand...
I learned it on Dampyr, actually, there are many in depth contents about history, literature and more within the inserts they put before the stories (such as those pages where they explain how the characters behave during the pandemic).

Other than that, several stories focus on the life of authors (novelists, poets..), historical people and events, often turning them in the actual protagonists of entire issues (even multiple ones), while Harlan and the others learn about them from characters or books, or even meet them for a reason or another. This also makes sense in-verse, as these characters have interacted with vampires, demons or other creatures and entities, giving the protagonists a reason to make researches about them and for the authors to tell other stories, while mixing them with fictional elements, but never going too far nor against how history actually went.

To make some examples, this one is on Gerard de Nerval, this on the Children's Crusade, these three (1, 2, 3) on John Polidori, Lord Byron, Mary Shelley etc. this on Robert Howard and I could go on for awhile with stories on Lovecraft, Edgar Allan Poe, P.T. Barnum, Bram Stoker, Bugsy Siegel, Aleister Crowley (who's also a recurring character), Che Guevara, Luois le Prince, George Melies, Fernando Pessoa and a variety of other people, events, situations, folklore, tales, myths and so on. A big part of the lore is a whole saga about the Matter of Britain and all the characters of those ancient tales, with everything revolving around the earliest versions known to man, written in the 5th century, to stay as faithful to the origins as possible.
 
It's less about calcs and more about estimates in this case but yeah, even a x2 disadvantage is enormous to the point you need some incredibly clear-cut advantage to keep up and a x3 one is where it begins being unwinnable. In a normal situation at least
 
Armorchompy said:
supersonic characters are like, five times faster than subsonic+
Click to expand...
insert egg in french spoken by google translate

I thought the margin was way smaller, always forgetting the Transonic range between them.

SamanPatou said:
I know, it's a bit off, but sometimes it's the only way to make matches fair.
We'll see about calcs, because from the little I know even an apparently small difference in numbers is actually a large one in a fight, but someone more expert than me (Armor) might confirm of confute.
Click to expand...
It sure is, which makes me more prone to do the speed equalization. Still, it makes for a more interesting match when there are ways to circumvent it, or when we account speed in the match. I wish there was some way to allow a certain speed advantage but without being outright unfair, but eh, it wouldn't be practical.

SamanPatou said:
I learned it on Dampyr, actually, there are many in depth contents about history, literature and more within the inserts they put before the stories (such as those pages where they explain how the characters behave during the pandemic).

Other than that, several stories focus on the life of authors (novelists, poets..), historical people and events, often turning them in the actual protagonists of entire issues (even multiple ones), while Harlan and the others learn about them from characters or books, or even meet them for a reason or another. This also makes sense in-verse, as these characters have interacted with vampires, demons or other creatures and entities, giving the protagonists a reason to make researches about them and for the authors to tell other stories, while mixing them with fictional elements, but never going too far nor against how history actually went.

To make some examples, this one is on Gerard de Nerval, this on the Children's Crusade, these three (1, 2, 3) on John Polidori, Lord Byron, Mary Shelley etc. this on Robert Howard and I could go on for awhile with stories on Lovecraft, Edgar Allan Poe, P.T. Barnum, Bram Stoker, Bugsy Siegel, Aleister Crowley (who's also a recurring character), Che Guevara, Luois le Prince, George Melies, Fernando Pessoa and a variety of other people, events, situations, folklore, tales, myths and so on. A big part of the lore is a whole saga about the Matter of Britain and all the characters of those ancient tales, with everything revolving around the earliest versions known to man, written in the 5th century, to stay as faithful to the origins as possible.
Click to expand...
That is fascinating. I love Bonelli's attention to detail. Even on the earliest Tex stories, as I am reading, there are so many small tidbits that are very accurate. Some things more overt than the others, but all in all, most Bonelli works are very precise. Some of his work even had surprisingly insightful looks into the future, Zagor comics that dealt with futuristic stuff had, many times, guessed some inventions that, even if the look wasn't the same, the function and development was quite similar.

Aaand I made the match! It took a long while to write all because my keyboard is being very uncooperative, but here it is!
 
It really struck me how hard is it to actually do the marksmanship and quickdraw feats that Tex and Magic Wind do in their comics, and that even characters who are far more tame in shooting feats, such as Zagor, easily do things that are almost on the level of the best "Wild West-specialized" gunslingers nowadays (People that recreationally practice Wild West-style gunsmanship and feats)

Reading some accounts of the era and seeing some competitions, from amateur to professional level, it is surprisingly hard to hit targets from a few dozen meters away with a revolver, even someone as big as a person, at least cleanly. With targets as small as cans and bottles, even barely 20 meters can be very hard for some people. Quickdrawing is a whole other problem, it makes shooting extremely innacurate (I'd say akin to how hip-firing in games is innacurate), and often in western duels, people exchanged several shots before hitting anything.

And that makes me realize how someone like Tex would be scary. Forget about his physical attributes or even speed, just thinking about someone that while quickdrawing and from dozens of meters away could consistently hit every individual shot, in targets as small as someone's gun in their hands, would really scare someone. I just finished issue #1 of the historical edition (It was really massive, with multiple issues within) and Tex singlehandedly, while much less experienced, killed twenty men alone in a shootout. He came out very injured and only survived the injuries because he was lucky, but still... And that is not even going into the feats that he and Magic Wind do with coins, with a weakened Tex hitting a far away coin straight in the middle and then again while in mid-air, twice, and Magic Wind shooting three coins hurled into the air with a single shot each in rapid sequence.

Even Zagor's relatively tame-looking feat of casually shooting a thin rope, in the dark from some meters from some meters away isn't easy for an amateur.
 
I remember the reaction of a friend of mine looking up Guybrush from Monkey Island on this wiki and being shocked at the realization that despite being a complete dumbass he's got plenty of superhuman feats. It's really interesting how even the most realistics fiction blows reality out of the water
 
I think it's because we are used to see a lot of really impossible, or just extremely complex stuff, be performed in fiction, that we usually don't realize how something might not just be "normally" difficult, but really hard to perform.

Realizing these things really changes one's perspective on characters and settings, when you place them next to reality, and this effect is amplified by the fact that Bonelli works are almost always very grounded, and so a "mental jump" from the to the real world is easier and thus more impressive (this explanation was bad, but it was difficult to express what I had in mind).
 
No no, I get it, and I fully agree with ya. It makes me appreciate not only Bonelli, but several other works I love way more than I expected.

Some things that those characters do almost veer into the superhuman. Again, talking about Tex (I'd vary a bit but he's my main reference, lol), there was that one issue he faced against a sniper that had the prototype of a Mauser rifle, with three times the effective range of a Winchester rifle, and he was, in fact, in the limit of the Mauser range, so basically, untouchable by a Winchester. More than that, it wasn't a duel, he just started shooting at Tex. Of course, Tex was expecting him, so it wasn't a surprise attack, but Tex had no time to prepare himself as it was in the middle of a chase and stuff.

Tex, with a Winchester and without any time to think, calculate or anything, shot the dude with a single attempt. How did he do it? He instinctively calculated bullet drop and the position of the man.

Sadly I don't remember the issue, but eventually I'll get there. Even as a kid I was astounded by that.
 
It reminds me of Red Dead Redemption 1, in a part of the game where you use the prototype of a mounted machine gun, and everyone was amazed by it and you felt like god. It makes you think of how deadly and impressive was something that today is "common".

Another example that comes into my mind is in one of the books of Emilio Salgari (you might have heard of him, I know that his novels where somewhat known in latin america), where, in short, one of his protagonists (an heroic malaysian pirate that lives in the mid-1800) manages to steal one of the first battlecruisers of history, that makes him almost unwinnable, as neither other pirates nor the forces of other nations, including England, have nothing comparable to it (its undoing will bu the absurd consume of fuel, which will make the ship unsustainable in the long period).

Anyway, let me get what Tex did, he shot towards the sky and calculated the precise fall of the bullet on the sniper? Even if that's different, it's an amazing skill feat that shall be noted in Tex's profile.
 
SamanPatou said:
It reminds me of Red Dead Redemption 1, in a part of the game where you use the prototype of a mounted machine gun, and everyone was amazed by it and you felt like god. It makes you think of how deadly and impressive was something that today is "common".
Click to expand...
Yes, very much so! So many things that nowadays we consider common, at the time they'd be completely marveled. I was going to say what a simple pistol would be, but even simpler than that, even something as mundane as morphine injections or duct tape would be fascinating.
SamanPatou said:
Another example that comes into my mind is in one of the books of Emilio Salgari (you might have heard of him, I know that his novels where somewhat known in latin america), where, in short, one of his protagonists (an heroic malaysian pirate that lives in the mid-1800) manages to steal one of the first battlecruisers of history, that makes him almost unwinnable, as neither other pirates nor the forces of other nations, including England, have nothing comparable to it (its undoing will bu the absurd consume of fuel, which will make the ship unsustainable in the long period).
Click to expand...
That name is familiar, but I don't recall any specific books, but yes, that is very true, including the lack of fuel. See, it was even discussed in a community I was, about the effectiveness of a modern-day army in medieval times. Surprisingly, less than expected, as initially they'd be a very powerful force on the right terrain, unbeatable in any conventional confrontation, but they'd eventually run out of supplies, bullets and stuff, and they wouldn't be ready for the kind of combat that would be needed to previal by then. Even if they took bullets and weaponry to the best engineers and stuff, and they managed to reverse engineer the equipment and understand it, there simply wouldn't be the industry and mechanisms to reliably produce the needed bullets and stuff.
SamanPatou said:
Anyway, let me get what Tex did, he shot towards the sky and calculated the precise fall of the bullet on the sniper? Even if that's different, it's an amazing skill feat that shall be noted in Tex's profile.
Click to expand...
Sort of, but he didn't shoot up, he shot at the sniper, just significantly higher than his position, and calculated the precise bullet drop, wind speed, air friction and all just so the bullet hit him squarely in the head.

I'd add in the profile, but I still haven't got at that point in the issues, sadly.
 
Reading the issues I decided to do a fun game for Tex. I call it "How Many People Has Tex Killled(tm)".

In six issues he's at an almost one hundred men kill count.

I... I'm lost for words. In those 6-8 issues (Each Historical Edition Tex comic includes three to four issues of normal issues) Tex has almost killed more people than Zagor did in several times the amount of issues.
 
Wow, I didn't expect him to be such a killer, lol.

I always thought he was more like one of those characters that refuse to employ lethal force unless it's absolutely necessary, but I guess him killing his enemies makes more sense given the context and the setting
 
He does prefer to do things like shooting guns out of people's hands and just wounding them, and he outright refuses to do anything more than that if the person was simply doing their job, if he perceives that he deserved it (Like when he broke into someone's apartment and the person shot him; the person was a suspect, but not proven to be a criminal, so Tex couldn't fairly shoot him) or if it was fair and square (He usually spare duellists that have character), but he is far less reserved about killing anyone that attacks him first or does something evil.

I've updated the game and decided to include other crimes he has done, such as kidnapping and arson. He has already burnt a significant amount of houses.

I'm liking this enough to do to all Bonelli characters. I shall make the Bonelli Criminal Championship. Who is the biggest asshat out of all characters?
 
Did he commit said crimes during his period as an outlaw or even as a ranger? If the latter, I guess he had his reasons (?).

For the championship, Dampyr's Archvampires are almost all very good candidates, as they usually are warlords and crime lords, usually maneuvering criminal organizations or dictatorships from behind the scenes, and have done this all throughout the entire human history, impersonating gods, generals, kings or just people of influence and murderers at the expenses of the innocents, who used to become food or vampire slaves. There really isn't a single crime one of them didn't put their fingers into, I could go on all day listing their professions.
 
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SamanPatou said:
Did he commit said crimes during his period as an outlaw or even as a ranger? If the latter, I guess he had his reasons (?).

For the championship, Dampyr's Archvampires are almost all very good candidates, as they usually are warlords and crime lords, usually maneuvering criminal organizations or dictaturships from behind the scenes, and have done this all throughout the entire huma history, impersonating gods, generals, kings or just people of influence and murderers at the expenses of the innocents, who used to become food or vampire slaves. There really isn't a single crime one of them didn't put their fingers into, I could go on all day listing their professions.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, he is (mostly) right when he does that. I'm just being inspired by Superdickery and Mario Is a Psychopath, so I'll paint Tex as a horrible monster.

Jesus, that is worse than anything I've seen thus far on Tex and Zagor. I doubt anyone will top that on Tex, maaaaybe on Zagor, as there is Wendigo which is literally evil incarnate and is responsible for all suffering, and explicitly the influencer towards all future warfare in mankind, and Hellingen too, which may or may not do much in his reality warping arc...
 
None of them do, no, although the last one comes close, the door shattering calc is meant to be used when someone completely obliterates a door and smashes it into many pieces. He's fine for the tournament.
 
All of them are alst tackles, meaning that Zagor can't put that much force in everything he does, but the rest of the feats listed in his AP section should grant at least baseline Wall level, I guess.
 
SamanPatou said:
All of them are alst tackles, meaning that Zagor can't put that much force in everything he does, but the rest of the feats listed in his AP section should grant at least baseline Wall level, I guess.
Click to expand...
Yeah, he does have at least the baseline, but I thought the door-busting ones were better than they actually were. Oh well, I gotta reword the profile a bit.

Armorchompy said:
None of them do, no, although the last one comes close, the door shattering calc is meant to be used when someone completely obliterates a door and smashes it into many pieces. He's fine for the tournament.
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I see! There's also the fact that those are mostly plank doors, which should be less durable than the solid-core ones of nowadays.
 
A rewrite of Tex's profile should be doable soon enough! I'll make a personal blog post for that, and translating all relevant feats all the while.

Tex may or may not have Instinctive Reactions. He consistently does things that are described as "done by instinct", like throwing himself on the ground/out of the way of potential attacks, looking towards incoming attacks, things like that. Also, I'm not sure if this is simply an intelligence feat or something else, but he also seems to consistently read minimal changes on someone's facial expression or way of looking at himself to detect killing intent, and thus act before the person does.

It's interesting to see how classic Tex (Before the 10-year timeskip) seems less skilled. He's still very much a very skilled man, but both his marksmanship feats and his general threat level are smaller. It's hard to give some examples, but it is treated as impressive when Tex hits all the symbols of a poker card from one side of a saloon room to another, or when he hits six consecutive headshots without pause on a mannequin head from 50 meters, which, from a Tex context, isn't really remarkable (Like the feats I mentioned of him shooting three times the max distance of a Winchester without even pausing and hitting a man's head, or casually hitting ducks mid-flight with individual shots, or hitting a coin twice midair, while still not at peak condition). People had less respect for him overall too when he was newer, as it is fitting.

There's a speed and a LS feat that I think are relevant too. One is on a similar vein of Zagor lifting a rock, but a bit smaller and easier to grasp (but to compensate, Tex did lift it way easier), and one that, from one or two dozen meters of distance, a man shot at Tex's back on the ground as he grappled with a bandit. After the shot was taken, Tex managed to turn the bandit's back to the bullet and lift him to use as a shield.
 
Instinctive Reaction should be legit, even just as "minor" or "limited". The other could be info analysis, also minor or limited, and it indeed is an intelligence feat.

All the rest are impressive feats indeed, a list of them would look quite good.
 
SamanPatou said:
Instinctive Reaction should be legit, even just as "minor" or "limited". The other could be info analysis, also minor or limited, and it indeed is an intelligence feat.
Click to expand...
There's one feat in particular that I consider to be Instinctive Reactions wihtout doubt, that is Tex, while uncoscious/barely conscious, still managing to swim and orient himself towards solid ground out of sheer survival instinct.
SamanPatou said:
All the rest are impressive feats indeed, a list of them would look quite good.
Click to expand...
Once I finish uploading and translating them, there shall be one!
 
Reading that Zagor has fought giant spiders in the past reminded me that Harlan did that too, with an archvampire (Horvat) that shapeshifted into a spider. (I cut out the rest of the fight, as he doesn't turn into a spider anymore).

The summary of the dialogues is the spider-vampire questioning Harlan's skill, with him replying that other times vampires tried similar tricks, but Horvat states that he is too strong and fast for Harlan, until he gets tied up.
 
I have the weirdest problem of having too many feats to choose from and I'm undecided as to which are the best.

In fact, there are so many that I'm pretty sure I've forgotten some great ones-
 
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