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Shinza banshou discussion thread~Revival~

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If the Dimensions have been dealt with, and the Singularity's place compared to them has been. We still need to figure out the size of the Singularity, and then theirs Taikyoku.
 
Tarang123 said:
Where tf does 1A come into picture then? You mentioned something about it. Anyway, I will likely disagree with some parts of the CRT, but I will wait for it.
Click to expand...
1A, would be the transcendence the throne holds over the heavens, as any addition to the heavens whether increase in dimensions or decrease does not affect the gods.
 
Tarang123 said:
That’s what he was doing. He was synchronizing his soul and strengthening his existence to cross it.
Click to expand...
But like I said, you would have to prove the scale he is doing it on is the same as the gap between the Singularity and the creation in the first place. Assuming that without evidence is completely wrong, since he was incomprehensible due to being in the Singularity in the first place.
 
Darksmash said:
But like I said, you would have to prove the scale he is doing it on is the same as the gap between the Singularity and the creation in the first place. Assuming that without evidence is completely wrong, since he was incomprehensible due to being in the Singularity in the first place.
Click to expand...
I never said that, I tho. The whole thing I was pointing out that due to his transcendental nature, he’s basically incomprehensible to regular beings of Creation, which is kind of on his profile. However, it’s also stated that he can go a step further that would make ryuusui, who had her hierarchy increased to properly interact with the true yakou be unable to understand him at all. All I said was that he’s increasing his existence and this hierarchy as well by drilling through the singularity. He was incomprehensible due to being a singularity, not existing in one.
 
Pain_to12 said:
Uhhhm this is oddly wrong, no matter the heaven, the throne and singularity is inaccessible to anyone not atziluth level, a non God would run mad in the singularity, or even in the hole leading to it.

And why would the higher dimensions in PL remain? It is called painting over, like the laws of the old world holds nothing anymore
Click to expand...
Going mad has nothing to do with not being able to access it. It just means their mind can't handle it. Also you are using a completely wrong notion of inaccessibility here. If a verse has 13 higher dimensions and a given character can only access 12 higher dimensions then the last one would obviously be Inaccessible to him. Doesn't mean the logic is applicable for 1-A arguments.

Why would they not remain? That's not how higher dimensions work. It's not like the concept of length, breadth, height etc can just stop existing. When we say some object is higher dimensional it just means that said object is embedded in more than 3 dimensions. So would be the case for PL creation. But if Mercurius chose to embed his creation only in 4 dimensions it wouldn't have anything to do with how many dimensions there actually are, or what level the gods scale to.
 
Tarang123 said:
I never said that, I tho. The whole thing I was pointing out that due to his transcendental nature, he’s basically incomprehensible to regular beings of Creation, which is kind of on his profile. However, it’s also stated that he can go a step further that would make ryuusui, who had her hierarchy increased to properly interact with the true yakou be unable to understand him at all. All I said was that he’s increasing his existence and this hierarchy as well by drilling through the singularity. He was incomprehensible due to being a singularity, not existing in one.
Click to expand...
Where is that stated?
The only thing about comprehension I found was this
によって弄ったものは、むしろ龍水の視点である。彼女の存在を摘み上げ、己の目線に合わせたこと。
人の視界を見た蟻は意味が分からなくなるだろうし、夜行の視界を見た龍水は同様の現象に陥っている。
瞬く銀河も、天体も、一つ一つが途轍もない巨大さを持つ森羅の一片。それが点描と化し世界を象る大曼荼羅。

And it basically says Ryuusei was unable to understand Yakou's point of view in the same way an ant wouldn't understand a human's point of view, even if exposed to it. So it doesn't actually have anything to do with Yakou being transcendentally above Ryuusei in the Singularity, more so her just being unable to comprehend it despite having her point of view aligned to it.
 
Darksmash said:
Going mad has nothing to do with not being able to access it. It just means their mind can't handle it. Also you are using a completely wrong notion of inaccessibility here. If a verse has 13 higher dimensions and a given character can only access 12 higher dimensions then the last one would obviously be Inaccessible to him. Doesn't mean the logic is applicable for 1-A arguments.

Why would they not remain? That's not how higher dimensions work. It's not like the concept of length, breadth, height etc can just stop existing. When we say some object is higher dimensional it just means that said object is embedded in more than 3 dimensions. So would be the case for PL creation. But if Mercurius chose to embed his creation only in 4 dimensions it wouldn't have anything to do with how many dimensions there actually are, or what level the gods scale to.
Click to expand...
I’m not going to comment to that second wall of text, but I’ll go on that first one.

Take note that these are characters that can travel through the higher dimensions leading to the Throne, but are unable to reach the Throne unless they were actually a god.
 
Darksmash said:
Where is that stated?
The only thing about comprehension I found was this
によって弄ったものは、むしろ龍水の視点である。彼女の存在を摘み上げ、己の目線に合わせたこと。
人の視界を見た蟻は意味が分からなくなるだろうし、夜行の視界を見た龍水は同様の現象に陥っている。
瞬く銀河も、天体も、一つ一つが途轍もない巨大さを持つ森羅の一片。それが点描と化し世界を象る大曼荼羅。

And it basically says Ryuusei was unable to understand Yakou's point of view in the same way an ant wouldn't understand a human's point of view, even if exposed to it. So it doesn't actually have anything to do with Yakou being transcendentally above Ryuusei in the Singularity, more so her just being unable to comprehend it despite having her point of view aligned to it.
Click to expand...
Interesting, I heard there was more, but I’ll find the text a bit later.
 
Tarang123 said:
Take note that these are characters that can travel through the higher dimensions leading to the Throne, but are unable to reach the Throne unless they were actually a god.
Click to expand...
That's literally the example I gave though. A verse with 13 dimensions can have characters that are only able to access 12 dimensions. Doesn't make the 13th dimension 1-A. You would have to prove that they have the ability to keep stacking dimensions freely to argue that.
 
For 1-A, you guys can also probably use the thing that the throne of mercurius is indescribable by any language, the law of physics does not exist in singularity, while higher dimensions and lower dimensions are clearly explained.
 
Darksmash said:
That's literally the example I gave though. A verse with 13 dimensions can have characters that are only able to access 12 dimensions. Doesn't make the 13th dimension 1-A. You would have to prove that they have the ability to keep stacking dimensions freely to argue that.
Click to expand...
Thing is, the Throne has never been treated as a normal "dimension". It's called one, but it's never been considered a true dimension tbh. So I don't think that example truly applies.
 
Ultra_instinct_issei said:
For 1-A, you guys can also probably use the thing that the throne of mercurius is indescribable by any language, the law of physics does not exist in singularity, while higher dimensions and lower dimensions are clearly explained.
Click to expand...
Didn't Yuri address something like that in his thread? Like how pseudo gods are called as higher dimensional and existing on another phase of physics or something?
Tarang123 said:
Thing is, the Throne has never been treated as a normal "dimension". It's called one, but it's never been considered a true dimension tbh. So I don't think that example truly applies.
Click to expand...
That doesn't actually relate to what we were talking about. The talk was about the nature of inaccessibility, not dimension buzzword discussion.
 
Pain_to12 said:
lol if soujiro and shiori were driliing they would fall for eternity, they bypaased the need to drill, they are weaker than yakou who when he tried drilling was unable to get to the throne

dont worry about this there are scans that turns and give them a likely rating, hence my likely rating. but yes the layers work in a transcendence method.
hajun singularity >>> yato >>>>> merc >>>> gods below them.
you get the gist now, hajun breaking through merc singularity will take only a breath time, while if merc tried to break through he will keep driling and would never reach hajun, the person he is facing is hajun not the singlarity. the singularity layers are a result of hajun strength

so you are advocating the singularity be a 1A space?
Click to expand...
first of all, Soujirou and Shiori are usually depicted as being exceptions to the norm. Second, Soujirou literally could have cut the Throne, so him cutting the singularity isn't that far-fetched.
 
Darksmash said:
Didn't Yuri address something like that in his thread? Like how pseudo gods are called as higher dimensional and existing on another phase of physics or something?

That doesn't actually relate to what we were talking about. The talk was about the nature of inaccessibility, not dimension buzzword discussion.
Click to expand...
Thing is, even in that same thread they're never directly called higher-dimensional, merely using an analogy of how higher dimensional attacks and lower dimensional attacks function, it itself would honestly just further prove that it's merely referring to their relation to each other. The phase in physics is a good point to some degree, but doesn't actually go against the verse being 1A tbh.

I agree, but I was just pointing it out.
 
Tarang123 said:
Thing is, even in that same thread they're never directly called higher-dimensional, merely using an analogy of how higher dimensional attacks and lower dimensional attacks function, it itself would honestly just further prove that it's merely referring to their relation to each other. The phase in physics is a good point to some degree, but doesn't actually go against the verse being 1A tbh.
Click to expand...
Their attack was directly compared to an attack from a higher dimension, it doesn't seem like any metaphor for something that's secretly beyond dimensions. I also doubt Masada would use an infinitely inferior analogy if he wanted them to be beyond dimensions
 
Darksmash said:
Their attack was directly compared to an attack from a higher dimension, it doesn't seem like any metaphor for something that's secretly beyond dimensions. I also doubt Masada would use an infinitely inferior analogy if he wanted them to be beyond dimensions
Click to expand...
Not really, the relation between the two was like a higher dimension to a lower dimension, which is what's stated there, even tho it doesn't necessarily keep them away from a tier like 1A or whatever.
 
Tarang123 said:
Not really, the relation between the two was like a higher dimension to a lower dimension, which is what's stated there, even tho it doesn't necessarily keep them away from a tier like 1A or whatever.
Click to expand...
Except this was what was said for their attacks:
高次元から低次元への攻撃は、赤子の手を捻るよりも通しやすい。

Attacks from higher to lower dimensions are easier to pass than twisting the baby's hand.

Meaning it's calling their existence higher dimensional quite explicitly.
 
you could use a very...interesting argument, assuming that the higher dimensions on ParaLost are in Dies Irae, that the gods' ultimate form of transcendence could also extend to the transcendence of said dimensions, which would make them 1A 🤔

then again, Mercurius was stated to have boundless passion, so Tier 0
 
Darksmash said:
Except this was what was said for their attacks:
高次元から低次元への攻撃は、赤子の手を捻るよりも通しやすい。

Attacks from higher to lower dimensions are easier to pass than twisting the baby's hand.

Meaning it's calling their existence higher dimensional quite explicitly.
Click to expand...
Again, it's quite literally comparing their existences to that of higher dimension and lower dimension, which literally means that's their relation to each other.
 
Tarang123 said:
Again, it's quite literally comparing their existences to that of higher dimension and lower dimension, which literally means that's their relation to each other.
Click to expand...
Yes? What's your point then, if you agree that it is being explicit about their relationship in the higher dimensional comparison?
 
So, this is a bit random, but this is some stuff I've seen on discord that I just needed to point out, with it mainly being of this text:

そこは、無限の丑の中心にある宇宙の座だった。これが夜行の存在一する階層であり、彼の目線に他ならない

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/822105676729942046/824647553936261140/image0-83-1.png

So, people often say that it's calling the singularity into an infinitely-layered hierarchy. However...that's not true. In fact, it's referring to something called Manji, which, with further research, is referring to swastika, so definitely not.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...520552/Screenshot_20200929-182245_YouTube.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...270484/Screenshot_20200929-182305_YouTube.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...928317/Screenshot_20200929-182312_YouTube.jpg

I've seen people make the argument that Mercurius has 90 sets of infinite taikyoku to justify him being above Hajun, which has literally no basis. If you've actually read the series, you'd know that this is just his flowery way of saying that when he does he rewinds "time" on Creation and resets everything, not that he's painting over himself and transcending and whatever.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/820016526899806278/820018378441228378/20210312_143546.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/820016526899806278/820018378914922597/20210312_143614.jpg

I've also seen quite a few people argue that this is plot manip for Shinza, even tho that's pretty much just flowery language of talking about how cravings are based on one's deepest and greatest desire.
 
i mean, the swirl of the root is literally taikyoku/singularity/throne. Indescribable, undefinable, beyond all time space and concepts, beyond duality, beyond all physics, blah blah blah transcedent to reality, etc
 
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