Pokémon - Range scaling issues

[LordGinSama]

This is a pretty simple one that affects most of the Pokémon profiles, and this is one that's been brought up quite a few times.


Currently the vast majority of Pokémon have the same exact range "tens of Kilometers." with no citation given whatsoever. There's no calculation, and there's absolutely no reason why said Pokémon should all be scaling to the same exact range as one another.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Wait... Really? I agree with the downgrade then.

 

[KingTempest]

Following

 

[Lightbuster30]

This is a pretty simple one that affects most of the Pokémon profiles, and this is one that's been brought up quite a few times.


Currently the vast majority of Pokémon have the same exact range "tens of Kilometers." with no citation given whatsoever. There's no calculation, and there's absolutely no reason why said Pokémon should all be scaling to the same exact range as one another.

Same with having hundreds of meters. I searched everywhere for a calc or scan and found zilch on neither here nor the wiki. Asked a couple of times and didn't get any answer.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Just to give a small correction, most Pokemon don't have this. 10 kilometers only applies to either 3rd/final stage mons and ones with Mega Evolution, Dynamax, etc etc. And through their attacks.

That being said, I also want to know actually where this comes from myself as even im not too sure why its like this.

 

[LordGinSama]

Just to give a small correction, most Pokemon don't have this. 10 kilometers only applies to either 3rd/final stage mons and ones with Mega Evolution, Dynamax, etc etc. And through their attacks.

Even with the ones that don't have Tens of Kilometers, there's no citation given for the other measurements of range. They just seem to be added there with no real form of reference, I'm sure that a calculation can be made but there's also the issue of scaling the range of most Pokémon to one another.

That being said, I also want to know actually where this comes from myself as even im not too sure why its like this.

Glad we're on the same page then.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Just to give a small correction, most Pokemon don't have this. 10 kilometers only applies to either 3rd/final stage mons and ones with Mega Evolution, Dynamax, etc etc. And through their attacks.

That being said, I also want to know actually where this comes from myself as even im not too sure why its like this.

What's more surprising is, this hasn't been addressed for years.

 

[Bobsican]

While I could see tens of kilometers with some moves, there's the matter of not all species learning that kind of moves to begin with, and even then a lack of proper citation doesn't help, so I have to agree with the OP until some evidence over this being the case on a significant enought margin to remain as is is brought up.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Doesn't Dragonite can control the weather? Such as creating storms and such?

Also that Giant Tentacruel made a flood that covered an entire city in episode 9, which should be at least few kilometers

 

[Soulgizmo]

Doesn't Dragonite can control the weather? Such as creating storms and such?

Also that Giant Tentacruel made a flood that covered an entire city in episode 9, which should be at least few kilometers

Mewtwo in the first movie created storms across the entire planet iirc. But it is a legendary that casually busted an island. Really the only problem here is your average fully evolved mon not having feats to back it up like mewtwo.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well there are certainly moves and stuf that can affect wide areas (like earthquake, magnitude, etc etc) that a good amount of pokemon can learn and use. And then better cases like what certain pokemon species can do.

The main issue as I see it here would be large quantities of pokemon being scaled to those range levels from each other.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Mewtwo in the first movie created storms across the entire planet iirc. But it is a legendary that casually busted an island. Really the only problem here is your average fully evolved mon not having feats to back it up like mewtwo.

Why are you talking about Mewtwo when I never mentioned hin nor tried to scale anyone to him?

Dragonite's storms are obviously far weaker than Mewtwo's. And that giant Tentacruel did flooded an entire city

 

[Soulgizmo]

Why are you talking about Mewtwo when I never mentioned hin nor tried to scale anyone to him?

Dragonite's storms are obviously far weaker than Mewtwo's. And that giant Tentacruel did flooded an entire city

I'm not sure why I brought up mewtwo really just the first thing that came to mind when discussing pokemon ranges. Like you said specific pokemon have shown good ranges like with weather manipulation or the giant tentacruel in the show. I feel like this range problem happened because its not like we've seen them all do said things. But we can assume they all can do comparable or better.

 

[Soulgizmo]

Giant Tentacruel did what it did with a base stat of 80 for instance. Granted it's probably more strong than an average one. But wouldn't that logically mean all pokemon with 80 or better in that stat do something like it?

 

[Imaginym]

Doesn't Dragonite can control the weather? Such as creating storms and such?

Incorrect. That's not Dragonite's feat, but Dragonair's feat, both by Pokedex entries, & in the anime.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...Anime_Calcs#Calc_.232_Dragonair_stops_a_storm (That blog also contains a storm feat done by an Alakazam, but it's a highly-trained Alakazam, given that its trainer had intended to challenge The Pokemon League (Implying 8 Badges.) & was Victor, seemingly Victor Winstrate, someone normally found in Victory Road, the path to the Pokemon League, & from a family of strong trainers.)

Adventure Time, Pokemon and MLP Calcs

vsbattles.fandom.com

Later in Alola, another storm feat for Dragonair.
However, I'm unsure these support the ranges the pages assert, unless we're using the AoE as would be indicated by area in square kilometers.
If my memory serves, Pokemon: Journeys may have another Dragonair weather feat.


Other Pokemon (Such as Pikachu, in groups creating lightning storms.) have weather/storm feats.

I vaguely recall a recent calculation about a Piloswine earthquaking a city.
& Tyranitar's walking making whole mountains crumble presumably means the impacts affect the whole bases -Or very close to it- for those mountains. Unclear on the range for that, but it may be impressive.

Numerous Pokemon learn moves like Gust, Twister, Hurricane, Thunder (Often depicted as creating storm clouds to fire the bolt from, even in the anime.), Earthquake & Magnitude, as well as Blizzard, & Surf & Muddy Water are much like tidal waves.
There's also an argument for Earth Power: It's description is "The user makes the ground under the target erupt with power. This may also lower the target's Sp. Def stat."
Taking erupt to mean bringing magma up from within the Earth, this would have to indeed go many KM deep, & the animations do often seem to imply the involvement of magma, or the hole being from deep in the Earth. Manipulating stuff that far deep is indeed a kind of range.


That said, I'm not entirely sure what the basises for range scaling are myself, & having hard numbers -Especially via calculations- would be better than not, to consider for the range justifications.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Incorrect. That's not Dragonite's feat, but Dragonair's feat, both by Pokedex entries, & in the anime.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...Anime_Calcs#Calc_.232_Dragonair_stops_a_storm (That blog also contains a storm feat done by an Alakazam, but it's a highly-trained Alakazam, given that its trainer had intended to challenge The Pokemon League (Implying 8 Badges.) & was Victor, seemingly Victor Winstrate, someone normally found in Victory Road, the path to the Pokemon League, & from a family of strong trainers.)

Oh. So Dragonite should just upscale from Dragonair then

 

[StrymULTRA]

Following

 

[Bobsican]

Giant Tentacruel did what it did with a base stat of 80 for instance. Granted it's probably more strong than an average one. But wouldn't that logically mean all pokemon with 80 or better in that stat do something like it?

In-game stats are ignored for indexing, otherwise you get stuff like Krabby being stronger than Zygarde, Miltank being faster than Dialga, or Stakataka being slower than Slowpoke

 

[theultimate5105]

Piloswine earthquake attempted calc

vsbattles.fandom.com

44.22km earthquake range
Dragonairs Hyperbeam in adventures is also at minimum hundreds of meters of range
Storms effect huge areas across the horizon
Charizards flamethrower is accepted as working on a mountain

 

[LordGinSama]

Which isn't applicable to every move, let alone every Pokemon.



You can't scale Char's AoE and range to other Pokemon, similarly how you can't scale the range of Earthquake to every attack, let alone every Pokémon. No other verse does this, Pokémon isn't the golden rule to that. Storms would be applicable to Weathe Manipulation, not every other attack.

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah we don’t scale range like that all because it’s the same technique. Done by different ppl

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I agree with lord gin.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yeah, not really sure where the Pokémon got their range from.

 

[Planck69]

Agree with LordGin for now.

 

[LordGinSama]

Yeah, not really sure where the Pokémon got their range from.

Let alone letting them scale to all of their attacks and other characters.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'm pretty sure it comes from Thunderbolt, that's how base have MHS+ speed.

Also, most of the moves have shown such levels of range like Dragonair destroying a distant city.

 

[LordGinSama]

Also, most of the moves have shown such levels of range like Dragonair destroying a distant city.

Citation is gonna be needed for a claim like that, I never remember a Pokémon using splash and causing it to reach up to dozens of Kilometers.

 

[Damage3245]

The lack of citation on the profiles is an issue.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Citation is gonna be needed for a claim like that, I never remember a Pokémon using splash and causing it to reach up to dozens of Kilometers.

Do you even know what the **** "case by case" is? I mean, I'm not saying that every move should, but the ones which are similar to Thunderbolt like Earthquake, Hyper Beam or Dragon Pulse should have it.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Which isn't applicable to every move, let alone every Pokemon.

In fairness, the ratings as they are now say most attacks. Not all of them.

And it goes for the 3rd/final stages and Megas since they typically learn these moves that grant the range

You can't scale Char's AoE and range to other Pokemon, similarly how you can't scale the range of Earthquake to every attack, let alone every Pokémon. No other verse does this, Pokémon isn't the golden rule to that.

See above for this.c I can agree on not scaling one moves AoE to a whole different specific move, but all Pokémon that learn a move that grants a range should get it.

Besides, not to pull a whataboutism, but I’m pretty sure there’s a good number of verses that do a similar concept to this currently.

For instance, all of the tier 3/2 characters in DBS who, outside of Goku and a few others, have universal range with attacks. Despite not showing such.

 

[LordGinSama]

Do you even know what the **** "case by case" is? I mean, I'm not saying that every move should, but the ones which are similar to Thunderbolt like Earthquake, Hyper Beam or Dragon Pulse should have it.

Yeah, let's not start acting aggressive here. That doesn't exactly make your argument look strong, so drop that tone now. Thunderbolt isn't comparable to Earthquake, they're both different attacks using two different elements.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Yeah, where is the range justification?

There doesn't need to be an exact number, but a range of how far Pokemon can typically reach with their attacks

 

[Imaginym]

Citation is gonna be needed for a claim like that, I never remember a Pokémon using splash and causing it to reach up to dozens of Kilometers.

The Dragonair Hyper Beam feat was calculated here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:M3X/Dragonair's_Hyper_Beam However, its range was not calculated.

Also also, not important but Splash is a bad example here; Splash's name translates to "Hop", & the move itself has nothing to do with Water, hence why Pokemon like Clefairy, Hoppip, Wobbuffet, Spoink, Bounsweet & many other non-aquatic Pokemon learn it by level-up.
& given that Splash may ACTUALLY have range of KM, given the most iconic user of it, Magikarp, has been able to leap over mountains. But that's not the kind of range this thread is concerned with.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yeah, let's not start acting aggressive here. That doesn't exactly make your argument look strong, so drop that tone now. Thunderbolt isn't comparable to Earthquake, they're both different attacks using two different elements.

Imagine ignoring the other moves like the others ones I've mentioned. Plus Earthquake has other feats as even said in Tyranitar feat.

 

[LordGinSama]

In fairness, the ratings as they are now say most attacks. Not all of them.

That's vague so that doesn't help much.

And it goes for the 3rd/final stages and Megas since they typically learn these moves that grant the range.

Then apply it to those moves, not "Most."

See above for this.c I can agree on not scaling one moves AoE to a whole different specific move, but all Pokémon that learn a move that grants a range should get it.

This is fair.

Besides, not to pull a whataboutism, but I’m pretty sure there’s a good number of verses that do a similar concept to this currently.

For instance, all of the tier 3/2 characters in DBS who, outside of Goku and a few others, have universal range with attacks. Despite not showing such.

Well that's wrong and I'd be more than happy to downgrade that with you if you have issues with whatever DBS is working with. I'd like to avoid whataboutism's as a whole here.

 

[Chariot190]

Krabby being stronger than Zygarde

Based.

Anyway, this REALLY shouldn't be hard, we have literally thousands of examples to draw from, and examples from every species.

Even something as simple as angsizing distance between two mons in like stadium or swsh or some shit would serve as a minimum benchmark. Obviously not kilometers, but tens of meters maybe? And then go from there using feats from the anime, manga, games, etc.

But, that ain't gonna be me, preoccupied with other CRTs and future threads atm.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'd downgrade One Piece based on this too

 

[LordGinSama]

Imagine ignoring the other moves like the others ones I've mentioned. Plus Earthquake has other feats as even said in Tyranitar feat.

Again, you can drop the attitude. Everyone here is remaining respectful, I'd suggest stop getting so emotional because your verse is getting downgraded. None of what you said are comparable to one another, Hyper Beam and Dragon Pulse aren't the same attacks.

 

[KingTempest]

I'd downgrade One Piece based on this too

Please try it

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

That's vague so that doesn't help much.

Then apply it to those moves, not "Most."

They are? Read the profiles. The 3rd stage/final stage/mega keys are the only ones on the given Pokémon’s page that has that range for them.

This is fair.

Well that's wrong and I'd be more than happy to downgrade that with you if you have issues with whatever DBS is working with. I'd like to avoid whataboutism's as a whole here.

And I do as well. Like I said, I don’t want to deviate to another verses case, but DB is a clear example of this site going with this type of standard for range, so Pokémon is not a unique anamoly where range is treated like this.

(And yes I’m perfectly fine with downgrading those ranges for DB characters too, but ya know, good luck doing that).