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Itachi vs Pain Round 3: Healthy Itachi vs prime Nagato

Seventy96 said:
Can you write win condition for both on them?
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GokuSparkle said:
This is a lot tougher, but I think in the end it would have the same outcome. Itachi is definitely much smarter, I'd argue has a better suited arsenal for this battle, has greater AP with the Susanoo other than when Nagato uses chibaku tensei which he (like in the Pain fight) likely isn't to use in character, and he's likely faster, though not by as big a difference anymore. Nagato's best speed feat is catching kcm Naruto but he had help from his invisible chameleon, meanwhile Itachi is implied to be faster than EMS Sasuke who kept up with a stronger kcm Naruto and has relativistic reactions. Only win cons I can think of for Nagato are outlasting Itachi since he still definitely has more stamina, or using chibaku tensei before Itachi can stop him and Itachi isn't able to burn it away with amaterasu/destroy it with the totsuka blade/blow it up with multiple yasaka magatama attacks/substitute himself with crows/use izanagi/place Nagato under a genjutsu that makes him think he sealed Itachi when in reality he got sealed by the totsuka blade, etc. All around, while Nagato would give Itachi a much tougher time given his greater power and the fact that Itachi can't systematically lower his amazing arsenal, Itachi would take it most times with mid-high difficulty.
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Like I mentioned I don't think chibaku tensei is likely to work, so outlasting and disorienting Itachi with the weird and varied abilities of the rinnegan seems more likely (than chibaku tensei not Itachi winning cause I vote for Itachi).
 
GokuSparkle said:
Being stuck under those heavy rocks pushing so hard against you is gonna kill you, and also izanagi is described as erasing ANYTHING disadvantageous to the user, so that would include being stuck inside chibaku tensei. It's just only been shown as being used for death.

Or PIS because Kishimoto didn't want Itachi to steal the spotlight from Naruto and Bee TOO much? Also genjutsu (if that works) or crow substitution is also an option.
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Thats simply headcanon actually
That was used to capture Naruto as well not to kill him
Not to be rude but Spotlight thats the Argument really?!? PiS?!? No
I already talked about crow Substitution & what happened in that fight don't wanna go circular
 
LightReinh12345 said:
Thats simply headcanon actually
That was used to capture Naruto as well not to kill him
Not to be rude but Spotlight thats the Argument really?!? PiS?!? No
I already talked about crow Substitution & what happened in that fight don't wanna go circular
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This was stated in the series by Obito, someone very knowledgeable about Uchiha jutsu.

KM6 grants considerable durability and Pain knew this from fighting him. A weaker version of this cloak stopped the kusanagi blade from piercing Naruto.

I say that because there's really no reason it shouldn't work, or at least there's no reason Itachi shouldn't have tried it.

Uh did you?
 
Nagato takes this

He has alotta hax like soul removal,the undead animals and chibaku tensei that cant be countered by itachi,he can also keep up with him and can probably resist his visual genjutsu since he has rinneagan
 
Auf said:
Nagato takes this

He has alotta hax like soul removal,the undead animals and chibaku tensei that cant be countered by itachi,he can also keep up with him and can probably resist his visual genjutsu since he has rinneagan
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wdym can't be countered? Soul removal requires him touching Itachi, which will be very hard to do, and the animals can be amatersud as Itachi showed when he used it on the multi headed dog. Alternatively there's the totsuka blade. And I talked about how Itachi might deal with ct extensively. Also the rinnegan has no mention of resisting sharingan genjutsu, though it's possible.
 
That would be good, but i doubt its fast enough to catch them. I mean those guys were dodging it pretty sure hanzo did.
 
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Seventy96 said:
What about soul removing dragon from gedo mazo?
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I mean, considering Hanzo dodged it (he said teleportation in the subtitles but if you heard he actually said shunshin, which means he just amped his foot speed to avoid it, so I'm sure Itachi could do the same)
 
Another thing why the dragon soul wouldn't be very good is due to the gedo needing to be summoned first and then also needing to be attached to nagato and draining him of chakra. So idk if it would be the best for him to do.
 
GokuSparkle said:
This was stated in the series by Obito, someone very knowledgeable about Uchiha jutsu.

KM6 grants considerable durability and Pain knew this from fighting him. A weaker version of this cloak stopped the kusanagi blade from piercing Naruto.

I say that because there's really no reason it shouldn't work, or at least there's no reason Itachi shouldn't have tried it.

Uh did you?
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I dont what you are saying what is stated by obito?!
 
image0.png
 
LightReinh12345 said:
I know what it can do but that was not my point this is irrelevant
I didnt say izanagi is headcanon, I just said crushing Under rocks thingy Casting death when u have a Durable susanoo seems headcanon
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His argument is that anything disadvantageous will be undone to the user. Aka rocks crushing him or the chibaku tensei. And if u think the susanoo can tank the chibaku tensei rocks crushing it then u just hurt pains win con lol.
 
LightReinh12345 said:
I know what it can do but that was not my point this is irrelevant
I didnt say izanagi is headcanon, I just said crushing Under rocks thingy Casting death when u have a Durable susanoo seems headcanon
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yeah I'm saying Itachi doesn't need to die to use Izanagi, he can just use it if he gets trapped and figures he can't break free (though tbh I think an armored susanoo could do the trick after it's stopped pulling him in)
Nelliels said:
His argument is that anything disadvantageous will be undone to the user. Aka rocks crushing him or the chibaku tensei. And if u think the susanoo can tank the chibaku tensei rocks crushing it then u just hurt pains win con lol.
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took the words right out of my mouth
 
rinneagan resisted the strongest visual genjutsu why should a sharingan's be a problem and btw he has the gedoe statue for removing soul and itachi cant deal with CT himself alone seeing it requires conbined effort of him,naruto and bee to break one
GokuSparkle said:
wdym can't be countered? Soul removal requires him touching Itachi, which will be very hard to do, and the animals can be amatersud as Itachi showed when he used it on the multi headed dog. Alternatively there's the totsuka blade. And I talked about how Itachi might deal with ct extensively. Also the rinnegan has no mention of resisting sharingan genjutsu, though it's possible
Click to expand...
 
Auf said:
rinneagan resisted the strongest visual genjutsu why should a sharingan's be a problem and btw he has the gedoe statue for removing soul and itachi cant deal with CT himself alone seeing it requires conbined effort of him,naruto and bee to break one
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That was a six paths 3 tomoe rinnegan, not the same as a borrowed rinnegan on someone without kekkai genkai. I already mentioned that Hanzo avoided the soul dragon with shunshin so Itachi would do the same thing. And I really don't wanna mention for the millionth time why chibaku tensei isn't the be all end all. I haven't even mentioned that Itachi can interrupt Nagato while he's charging it.
 
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Chibaku tensei leaves nagato open for any attack, and considering Amaterasu as a instant hit I don't even see Nagato being that dumb to put himself in a situation where he's unprotected.
 
GokuSparkle said:
yeah I'm saying Itachi doesn't need to die to use Izanagi, he can just use it if he gets trapped and figures he can't break free (though tbh I think an armored susanoo could do the trick after it's stopped pulling him in)

took the words right out of my mouth
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Well u said he would die under rocks via assumption first
 
Nelliels said:
His argument is that anything disadvantageous will be undone to the user. Aka rocks crushing him or the chibaku tensei. And if u think the susanoo can tank the chibaku tensei rocks crushing it then u just hurt pains win con lol.
Click to expand...
Thats not my point it doesnt matter to me who would win I am saying u cant assume he would definitely die here whether he can break free or not is irrelevant
 
Nelliels said:
Ok? Our point was that izanagi will neg chibaku tensei. and after that nagato will have a major chakra drain.
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Thats hypothetical to me so I will not argue there I was also countering the death point which he stated back the thats all
To me this Match can go either way itachi's intelligence give him the edge here though I think
 
Itachi isn’t the type to use a trump card and start spamming it especially if he misses the first time or doesn’t have a distraction like he did in the manga. Even if he did, it’s very easy to dodge a giant while he burns out of his energy.
 
I’m really not seeing Itachi pull out his susanoo against the leader of the Akatsuki. We know Itachi is the best when it comes to countering jutsus, so him seeing a certain jutsu such Shinra or absorption, he’s gonna pull out something that can stop it; which is susanoo. As we saw with sasuke vs Itachi, when he’s faced with something great and he has no other option he pulls out susanoo (kirin), so I think Itachi pulls out yata mirror to stop Shinra tensei, uses totska blade when they’re at a long distance from each other or he uses Amaterasu.
 
GokuSparkle said:
If he needs it though, he will use it.

And Totsuka blade?
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Nagato wasn’t himself, he was still under Kabuto’s control until he was pierced with the blade. That said he only used it on a giant target that was hard to miss (orochimaru) and smokescreened Nagato to use it so an actual fight between the two likely wouldn’t happen as it did.

CT is definitely an answer to susanoo. Pain made a CT big enough to hold the entire 9 tails, Itachi with susanoo isn’t close to that size, so he could probably just throw a casual CT core and be done with it.
 
RisingIons said:
Nagato wasn’t himself, he was still under Kabuto’s control until he was pierced with the blade. That said he only used it on a giant target that was hard to miss (orochimaru) and smokescreened Nagato to use it so an actual fight between the two likely wouldn’t happen as it did.

CT is definitely an answer to susanoo. Pain made a CT big enough to hold the entire 9 tails, Itachi with susanoo isn’t close to that size, so he could probably just throw a casual CT core and be done with it.
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Nagato is a sensor. He should've been able to sense it coming and react.

He needs time to build that, and anyways no he didn't. That's blatantly false. It failed to even supress 8 Tails Naruto.
Naruto Chapter 439 Page 13

Besides, KCM Naruto Bee and Itachi were able to destroy that core, so Itachi should be able to do it with 3 Yasaka Magatama strikes, or stab the core with the Totsuka blade sealing it/destroying it or Amaterasu it away.
 
GokuSparkle said:
Nagato is a sensor. He should've been able to sense it coming and react.
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he’s still being controlled by Kabuto so it’s not 100% his mindset regardless. Kabuto's control made Nagato more efficient in ways he didn't even know. It was essentially Kabuto vs crew and Nagato's mind took a backseat. (Nagato can detect Itachi using his Mangekyou sharingan, even if he misreads the jutsu)
GokuSparkle said:
He needs time to build that, and anyways no he didn't. That's blatantly false. It failed to even supress 8 Tails Naruto.
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I'll address this entire scene instead of arguing against your points. Konan told Nagato not to use CT because his body was already in no shape from having to wipe the entire Leaf (which he needed to deactivate his other paths for), as well as fighting with Leaf ninja and fighting extensively with Naruto. Additionally we can see that Pain made this CT while he was on the run from 6-tails Naruto, so its not like he needed to focus so much he couldn't move. Additionally, Naruto was pretty much sealed to the outside of a 99.9% complete CT, which Nagato considered making bigger, because Nagato knew of the 9 tails.
GokuSparkle said:
Besides, KCM Naruto Bee and Itachi were able to destroy that core, so Itachi should be able to do it with 3 Yasaka Magatama strikes
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I disagree with your logic. This implies that they are all equals which they aren't. Perfect Jinchuuriki Bee > KCM Naruto > Itachi. The full tailed beasts' bijuu bomb scales to 26.11 gigatons. A charged bijuu bomb between Kurama and Gyuki share a value of 1.2 teratons. Nobody knows how strong a KCM wind style rasenshuriken is, but 6 tails Naruto's biju bomb is 2.39 gigatons, and KCM is above that. Itachi nearly became a stain on the ground with skeletal susanoo after Kirin, which is only 600 megatons, roughly 4x weaker than 6-tails Naruto's bijuu bomb. Mind you, Nagato took a lariat from v2 8-tails Bee (and literally absorbed the chakra of the entire form which healed him), who should be several times stronger than 6-tails Naruto due to the number of tails present.

TL;DR: Bee contributed to the lion's share of AP that destroyed CT based on quantifiable feats, followed by Naruto then Itachi. You would have to prove one Yasaka bead is at least as powerful as Bee's BD.
GokuSparkle said:
or stab the core with the Totsuka blade sealing it/destroying it or Amaterasu it away.
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This makes no sense and are featless for doing what you think they can.
 
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