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MinatoSparkle

He/Him
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That's right, I'm opening up the flame war again, now that Itachi's officially a SM Naruto slayer like Pain is. P1 Itachi and the 6 Paths of Pain are used. Nagato is as close to the Pains as he was against Naruto.
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Solo God: 0

Invincible God: 0

Obito recks: 0
 
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healthy Itachi or sick Itachi the one with sub-rel reaction speed?

i get confused of which one have that reaction speed
 
healthy Itachi or sick Itachi the one with sub-rel reaction speed?

i get confused of which one have that reaction speed
The speed section of Itachi's profile hasn't been touched in waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long. It's actually Sick and Healthy, which isn't a thing anymore. So to make things less complicated, I'm just gonna equalize speed.
 
This match has already been made in the past, and Pain won. Why are you making it again?
That was using outdated profile stats, and that was using Sick Itachi, this is P1 Itachi. Tbh that match should've been removed. It was already outdated when another Itachi vs Pain match was made where Itachi won, but that was removed when the profiles were updated, yet the Pain victory one which was even older wasn't. Sounds like someone might've ignored that.
 
Pretty sure that match used alive Itachi, which at the time was Part 1 Itachi. Regardless, alive Itachi doesn't fare that much better, in my opinion. The Six Paths of Pain are too diverse with their abilities, and Nagato already has prior intel about Itachi, while Itachi doesn't know much about Pain's abilities in comparison, or at least not that I'm aware of.

The Six Paths of Pain and their shared vision give them a tremendous advantage. Pain can absorb the Amaterasu using the Petra Path, can use multiple summons with the Animal Path, and the Deva Path can push Itachi out of the Susanoo if he chooses to use it. Even if Itachi manages to take down one of them using his genjutsu, the Naraka Path will fix them, and because the Pains can attack from multiple directions, the Yata Mirror won't be able to nullify all the attacks. Itachi doesn't have any answers for the Chibaku Tensei, either. Itachi's stamina isn't the best, since even using the Amaterasu once was draining for him, and he could only use the Mangekyo Sharingan three times a day before needing to rest.
 
Itachi FRA
Oh btw that's not allowed since no one has given valid reasoning for Itachi yet.
Pretty sure that match used alive Itachi, which at the time was Part 1 Itachi. Regardless, alive Itachi doesn't fare that much better, in my opinion. The Six Paths of Pain are too diverse with their abilities, and Nagato already has prior intel about Itachi, while Itachi doesn't know much about Pain's abilities in comparison, or at least not that I'm aware of.
I could give no intel to either side. Though I don't think Pain knows everything about Itachi, just some of the basic stuff.
The Six Paths of Pain and their shared vision give them a tremendous advantage. Pain can absorb the Amaterasu using the Petra Path, can use multiple summons with the Animal Path, and the Deva Path can push Itachi out of the Susanoo if he chooses to use it. Even if Itachi manages to take down one of them using his genjutsu, the Naraka Path will fix them, and because the Pains can attack from multiple directions, the Yata Mirror won't be able to nullify all the attacks. Itachi doesn't have any answers for the Chibaku Tensei, either. Itachi's stamina isn't the best, since even using the Amaterasu once was draining for him, and he could only use the Mangekyo Sharingan three times a day before needing to rest.
Itachi's taijutsu/shurikenjutsu is amazing, he can definitely take the Preta Path down without ninjutsu then use it, especially since the Paths are 7-B when all/most of them are out, and Itachi's basic attacks even with just the 3T Sharingan out are High 7-A, meaning he can casually one shot them without MS abilities until they're down to a few. Also considering SM Jiraiya casually kicked Pain's summon, and Itachi>MS Sasuke~SM Naruto>SM Jiraiya, he's not gonna have much trouble with them either. Also Shinra Tensei isn't getting past the Yata Mirror. And why would it push Itachi out of the Susanoo anyways? If anything, it should just push the Susanoo in general. You can actually argue that the Yata Mirror can be omnidirectional, as it's stated to be able to change every one of its properties to block incoming attacks, which would include size, and this is consistent as it seems to expand when blocking Orochimaru and Sasuke.
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Also even if the Yata Mirror can't block all their attacks, Itachi can swing the Totsuka Blade in a circle to repel oncoming attacks. And while Pain's summoning Chibaku Tensei, Itachi could probably just stab him, making it a draw at worst, or stab the core of the CT.

He was mostly fine, just panting a little. Even when near death, he used the MS WAAAAAY more than he did in P1, so he was probably just fronting to Kisame.
 
I could give no intel to either side. Though I don't think Pain knows everything about Itachi, just some of the basic stuff.
Considering Pain is the head of the Akatsuki, I imagine he'd have a very good understanding of Itachi's abilities.
Itachi's taijutsu/shurikenjutsu is amazing, he can definitely take the Preta Path down without ninjutsu then use it, especially since the Paths are 7-B when all/most of them are out, and Itachi's basic attacks even with just the 3T Sharingan out are High 7-A, meaning he can casually one shot them without MS abilities until they're down to a few.
The Pains are usually 7-B when they're far away from each other or when Pain's bodies aren't charged, such as when they were drained from using the Chaotic Shinra Tensei. Pain's not going to underestimate Itachi and will have all of the bodies fight together and near his main body, so they'd all be High 7-A.
Also considering SM Jiraiya casually kicked Pain's summon, and Itachi>MS Sasuke~SM Naruto>SM Jiraiya, he's not gonna have much trouble with them either. Also Shinra Tensei isn't getting past the Yata Mirror. And why would it push Itachi out of the Susanoo anyways? If anything, it should just push the Susanoo in general. You can actually argue that the Yata Mirror can be omnidirectional, as it's stated to be able to change every one of its properties to block incoming attacks, which would include size, and this is consistent as it seems to expand when blocking Orochimaru and Sasuke.
No evidence that the Yata mirror is omnidirectional. Even if Itachi chooses to use the Susanoo, he can't stay in it very long, especially if he uses his other MS abilities. Pain could just spam attacks from afar and wait until Itachi's exhausted his chakra.
And what I meant with Nagato taking Itachi out of the Susanoo is that he can use the Bansho Ten'in, the pulling aspect of the Deva Path, to pull Itachi toward him and out of the Susanoo, making him vulnerable to attack.
Also, you mention that chaining scale, but the Pains were capable of matching and even overpowering Sage Mode Naruto. Three of his bodies could stop a Rasenshuriken, and he could replicate that same feat with one body despite being exhausted.

Just a casual Shinra Tensei was enough to send SM Naruto flying, and his Shinra Tensei could send all Naruto's toad summons like Gamabunta flying, so if Pain manages to land a few of those Shinra Tenseis, Itachi would be kinda screwed.
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Also even if the Yata Mirror can't block all their attacks, Itachi can swing the Totsuka Blade in a circle to repel oncoming attacks. And while Pain's summoning Chibaku Tensei, Itachi could probably just stab him, making it a draw at worst, or stab the core of the CT.
He was mostly fine, just panting a little. Even when near death, he used the MS WAAAAAY more than he did in P1, so he was probably just fronting to Kisame.
Highly doubt that. It's pretty clear that the Mangekyo Sharingan's abilities are very taxing, and Itachi doesn't have the stamina reserves to use so many attacks repeatedly. He was only using the MS sharingan abilities so many times because he knew he was going to die, so he knew it didn't matter whether or not he fully lost his sight, and he was determined to help Sasuke. Sure, Itachi could withstand an extended fight against Sasuke while holding back, but Sasuke still pushed him rather hard and forced Itachi to use his more unique abilities to match him.

Pain's generally shown far greater stamina feats than Itachi has. One, he can restore any of the bodies that Itachi could possibly destroy with his Naraka Path. He could still fight against Naruto even after having used his Chaotic Shinra Tensei, and regained his full strength after a few minutes. Against 6-tails Naruto, he had enough chakra to use the Chibaku Tensei and still fought against Naruto even after on equal footing. Those feats are far greater than anything Itachi ever displayed, so Nagato's just got more advantages.
 
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Considering Pain is the head of the Akatsuki, I imagine he'd have a very good understanding of Itachi's abilities.
That's kind of a leap in logic, to say he knows his abilities just cause he leads him?
The Pains are usually 7-B when they're far away from each other or when Pain's bodies aren't charged, such as when they were drained from using the Chaotic Shinra Tensei. Pain's not going to underestimate Itachi and will have all of the bodies fight together and near his main body, so they'd all be High 7-A.
What does them being far away from each other have to do with anything? And no, before the CST they were considered 7-B, as Kakashi threatened the Deva and Asura Path, and Konohomaru injured the Naraka Path.
No evidence that the Yata mirror is omnidirectional. Even if Itachi chooses to use the Susanoo, he can't stay in it very long, especially if he uses his other MS abilities. Pain could just spam attacks from afar and wait until Itachi's exhausted his chakra.
Changing every one of its properties is the evidence. And sure he can't stay in it long, but he doesn't need to, as it can easily overpower most of the Paths.

Spam what attacks to stop Itachi from raining down on him?
And what I meant with Nagato taking Itachi out of the Susanoo is that he can use the Bansho Ten'in, the pulling aspect of the Deva Path, to pull Itachi toward him and out of the Susanoo, making him vulnerable to attack.
Why wouldn't that pull him along with the Susanoo? Also the Yata Mirror might stop that from affecting Itachi.
Also, you mention that chaining scale, but the Pains were capable of matching and even overpowering Sage Mode Naruto. Three of his bodies could stop a Rasenshuriken, and he could replicate that same feat with one body despite being exhausted.
I was specifically talking about the animal summons that you said would be a problem. Also they didn't really "overpower" SM Naruto, except the Deva Path, and even that's kind of debatable, as he moreso used hax. And wdym stopped a Rasenshuriken?
Just a casual Shinra Tensei was enough to send SM Naruto flying, and his Shinra Tensei could send all Naruto's toad summons like Gamabunta flying, so if Pain manages to land a few of those Shinra Tenseis, Itachi would be kinda screwed.
Naruto was pushed back, but he wasn't really hurt, and even laughed at Pain for thinking he could hurt him, and Pain kinda implicitly agreed.
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 434, page 17

Pain's ST being 6-C isn't accepted yet, though I'd argue SM Naruto>Toads anyways.
Highly doubt that. It's pretty clear that the Mangekyo Sharingan's abilities are very taxing, and Itachi doesn't have the stamina reserves to use so many attacks repeatedly. He was only using the MS sharingan abilities so many times because he knew he was going to die, so he knew it didn't matter whether or not he fully lost his sight, and he was determined to help Sasuke. Sure, Itachi could withstand an extended fight against Sasuke while holding back, but Sasuke still pushed him rather hard and forced Itachi to use his more unique abilities to match him.
Yeah, and in this VS battle he'll do everything he can to win, so he will spam them if he has to. And what does Sasuke "pushing him" matter when like you said he was holding back, and was in a far worse condition than he is in this battle?
Pain's generally shown far greater stamina feats than Itachi has. One, he can restore any of the bodies that Itachi could possibly destroy with his Naraka Path. He could still fight against Naruto even after having used his Chaotic Shinra Tensei, and regained his full strength after a few minutes. Against 6-tails Naruto, he had enough chakra to use the Chibaku Tensei and still fought against Naruto even after on equal footing. Those feats are far greater than anything Itachi ever displayed, so Nagato's just got more advantages.
Sure I agree he has more stamina than Itachi, but Itachi's stamina still isn't bad or anything. It's enough to last for one battle when he's healthy.
 
That's kind of a leap in logic, to say he knows his abilities just cause he leads him?

What does them being far away from each other have to do with anything? And no, before the CST they were considered 7-B, as Kakashi threatened the Deva and Asura Path, and Konohomaru injured the Naraka Path.
They were only 7-B when they were far away from Nagato, but he will make sure to keep all of the Pains nearby to ensure they're at their strongest, that's my point.
Changing every one of its properties is the evidence. And sure he can't stay in it long, but he doesn't need to, as it can easily overpower most of the Paths.
What proof is there that he can easily overpower the Paths? Even three of the Paths together were enough to make SM Jiraiya admit they'd kill him, forcing him to resort to genjutsu to trap them. You're severely underestimating their coordination skills and ability to help one another and overestimating Itachi's ability to counter six opponents with comparable power all at once. Even Itachi's skills wouldn't be enough to withstand their combined assault.
Spam what attacks to stop Itachi from raining down on him?
He can use the Asura Path to fire multiple missiles or energy blasts from afar, and the Deva Path can use his Shinra Tensei or even Chaotic Shinra Tensei. As I said, he could also just take evasive maneuvers or wait for Itachi's stamina to run out, since he can't
Why wouldn't that pull him along with the Susanoo? Also the Yata Mirror might stop that from affecting Itachi.
If someone can latch onto the user, then they can be pulled out of the Susanoo. So if Nagato used a summons, like the chameleon summon to turn invisible, the chameleon could grab Itachi and pull him out, as another example.
I was specifically talking about the animal summons that you said would be a problem. Also they didn't really "overpower" SM Naruto, except the Deva Path, and even that's kind of debatable, as he moreso used hax. And wdym stopped a Rasenshuriken?
During their battle, he used his Deva Path to stop a Rasenshuriken, then replicated the feat even after having just used his Chibaku Tensei. Again, keep in mind that most of the feats done by Pain during Konaha were after he'd just used his Chaotic Shinra Tensei and when his bodies were farther away, meaning his power should be greater than what he displayed back then.
Naruto was pushed back, but he wasn't really hurt, and even laughed at Pain for thinking he could hurt him, and Pain kinda implicitly agreed.
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 434, page 17
This was a casual Shinra Tensei and also done with a weaker Deva Path who'd just used Shinra Tensei and was much farther away from Nagato's body, and despite that the Pains could still keep SM Naruto in a lock.
Yeah, and in this VS battle he'll do everything he can to win, so he will spam them if he has to. And what does Sasuke "pushing him" matter when like you said he was holding back, and was in a far worse condition than he is in this battle?
And Pain will just absorb the ninjutsu the way he does with most attacks. The Human Path could also just steal his soul, get Itachi in a grip-lock the way he did with SM Naruto and rip his soul out. He has so many more options and powers than Itachi does, and the Mangekyo Sharingan significantly limits his stamina.
Sure I agree he has more stamina than Itachi, but Itachi's stamina still isn't bad or anything. It's enough to last for one battle when he's healthy.
Not if he has to keep spamming his MS abilities just to keep up with the Pains, which will eventually force him to deactivate the MS altogether, leaving him extremely vulnerable.

Just THREE USES of his Mangekyo Sharingan left him exhausted, and that means he can't keep it up for very long. Meanwhile, even if Itachi manages to take down some of the Pains, the Naraka Path will just restore them and resume their coordinated attack. Itachi can't overcome this, and Pain is constantly being downplayed.

Again, even if Itachi does manage to defeat the rest of the Pains, which is very possible, Nagato will simply use the Chibaku Tensei, which Itachi has no way to prevent. He doesn't have the power necessary to stop the attack or survive it, even with the Susanoo. And since Nagato knows how powerful Itachi is, he may very well choose to resort to it sooner in the fight.

And why is speed equalized? Their speed is relative: Itachi's profile has "possibly Sub-Relativistic", which means it doesn't have to be used, so just use Massively Hypersonic+ instead.
 
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They were only 7-B when they were far away from Nagato, but he will make sure to keep all of the Pains nearby to ensure they're at their strongest, that's my point.
Did they become stronger when they fought in the crater? Naruto, who Itachi's stronger then, still one shot them, most of them with just basic attacks.
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What proof is there that he can easily overpower the Paths? Even three of the Paths together were enough to make SM Jiraiya admit they'd kill him, forcing him to resort to genjutsu to trap them. You're severely underestimating their coordination skills and ability to help one another and overestimating Itachi's ability to counter six opponents with comparable power all at once. Even Itachi's skills wouldn't be enough to withstand their combined assault.
Because Susanoo>>Itachi>MS Sasuke~SM Naruto>Paths. And they have comparable power yes, but comparable weak power to a Susanoo. The Susanoo is pretty well suited to taking on multiple opponents at once with its all encompassing armor and wide sweeping attacks.
He can use the Asura Path to fire multiple missiles or energy blasts from afar, and the Deva Path can use his Shinra Tensei or even Chaotic Shinra Tensei. As I said, he could also just take evasive maneuvers or wait for Itachi's stamina to run out, since he can't
Random missles and energy blasts aren't powering through an Armored Susanoo. CST requires the other Paths going down and a pretty lengthy build up, during which Itachi could easily interrupt. And he's not gonna be able to keep away, as the Susanoo is super fast compared to its user.
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If someone can latch onto the user, then they can be pulled out of the Susanoo. So if Nagato used a summons, like the chameleon summon to turn invisible, the chameleon could grab Itachi and pull him out, as another example.
??? You know that the fact that it's invisible doesn't mean it's intangible right? It's tongue isn't gonna pierce the Susanoo.
During their battle, he used his Deva Path to stop a Rasenshuriken, then replicated the feat even after having just used his Chibaku Tensei. Again, keep in mind that most of the feats done by Pain during Konaha were after he'd just used his Chaotic Shinra Tensei and when his bodies were farther away, meaning his power should be greater than what he displayed back then.
I don't even know if Nagato was closer to the Pains in the Rain Village than when he was in the Leaf Village. In both cases he was in a high area close to the battle.
This was a casual Shinra Tensei and also done with a weaker Deva Path who'd just used Shinra Tensei and was much farther away from Nagato's body, and despite that the Pains could still keep SM Naruto in a lock.
Ok since the problem seems to be that you think Pain was much stronger in the RV even though there's really no evidence of that (Pain did better against SM Jiraiya than he did against SM Naruto, and Naruto>Jiraiya), I'm just gonna say he's as close to Pain as he was in the Leaf Village.
And Pain will just absorb the ninjutsu the way he does with most attacks. The Human Path could also just steal his soul, get Itachi in a grip-lock the way he did with SM Naruto and rip his soul out. He has so many more options and powers than Itachi does, and the Mangekyo Sharingan significantly limits his stamina.
Preta seems to only be able to absorb ninjutsu through his hands, so Itachi could attack from the back or like I said before, use something else when he realizes ninjutsu isn't working. The Human Path is NEVER locking someone as slippery as Itachi. And is there even any evidence that The Human Path scales to The Preta Path?
Not if he has to keep spamming his MS abilities just to keep up with the Pains, which will eventually force him to deactivate the MS altogether, leaving him extremely vulnerable.
Will only really need to against a few of the Paths tbh.
Just THREE USES of his Mangekyo Sharingan left him exhausted, and that means he can't keep it up for very long. Meanwhile, even if Itachi manages to take down some of the Pains, the Naraka Path will just restore them and resume their coordinated attack. Itachi can't overcome this, and Pain is constantly being downplayed.
Against Sasuke, Itachi was able to use Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu twice (enough that it spread across the entire Uchiha hideout), and Susanoo for a few minutes, keeping the MS activated the whole battle which already drains a lot of stamina on its own, and this at his worst condition. He can most certainly use the MS more than a few times.
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Itachi might kill the Naraka Path in his assault, but even if he doesn't, as soon as he sees that it arrived one of them, he's gonna focus on taking him down, just like Naruto did, and Itachi's definitely smarter than Naruto, on top of being a superior combatant in general, so he could certainly pull it off.
Again, even if Itachi does manage to defeat the rest of the Pains, which is very possible, Nagato will simply use the Chibaku Tensei, which Itachi has no way to prevent. He doesn't have the power necessary to stop the attack or survive it, even with the Susanoo. And since Nagato knows how powerful Itachi is, he may very well choose to resort to it sooner in the fight.
"And while Pain's summoning Chibaku Tensei, Itachi could probably just stab him, making it a draw at worst, or stab the core of the CT."
And why is speed equalized? Their speed is relative: Itachi's profile has "possibly Sub-Relativistic", which means it doesn't have to be used, so just use Massively Hypersonic+ instead.
Like I said before, the speed section of his profile is all messed up, cause it should be P1 and P2, but instead it's ordered as Sick and Healthy, and Healthy Itachi was removed because he's theoretical, and there's no proof he's ~/>Edo Itachi as he could've been getting stronger through training while the sickness nerfed him, meaning Healthy Itachi is<Edo Itachi despite the Edo nerf.
 
Also Itachi's superior to Pain because he's >Obito>Pain. He forced Obito into a pact, and Obito didn't honor it because Itachi helped the Akatsuki, as he called Itachi an eyesore and didn't list him among those who helped the Akatsuki, and he even said he kept the pact so they could keep proceeding according to plan, meaning it wouldn't have if Itachi betrayed the Akatsuki.
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And more proof that it's referencing a physical threat to Obito is that Itachi threatened Obito's life enough that he agreed not to attack the leaf.
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While it's not so obvious in the novel or manga alone (though I’d argue either on their own are quite solid), synthesizing the evidence makes it pretty clear that Itachi's threat to his life is what made Obito back down, and the best counterargument to this still proves relativity.
  • Obito wanted to attack Konoha (his reasons were false but the sentiment is true given that he literally did so several years ago)
  • Itachi offered a deal that would allow Obito to have less of what he wants (a lesser revenge against Konoha) in exchange for his help against the clan, and Obito agreed specifically after Itachi threatened his life. This could mean:
    • Obito backed down because of Itachi’s threat, which would prove Itachi is relative enough to him that he could plausibly kill him (this isn’t because of prep time, because if Itachi needed that to kill him, Obito could’ve just ran at Itachi in that moment and ended him before he had time to prep anything)
    • Obito backed down because he wanted Itachi’s help against the clan, which would mean Itachi’s combat assistance was significant enough to be worth Obito losing the chance to take revenge on Konoha, which would only make sense if his strength was at least somewhat relevant compared to Obito’s
    • Obito just agreed so he could have Itachi in the Akatsuki, which doesn’t make sense as Obito considered Itachi a hindrance
Also, it's one of Itachi's narratives in the novel to reach Obito's level, and even felt Obito's power yet still felt confident in killing him at the end.
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And Obito thought that no opponent was worthy of Itachi despite being an opponent himself in the novel.
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And of course Obito orders Pain around and even considers him an underling, clearly implying his superiority.
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Also Itachi vs Sasuke is considered the ultimate battle despite taking place after SM Jiraiya vs Pain, and since SM Jiraiya>Sasuke, that helps support Itachi>Pain, unless you argue it's just referencing it being ultimate in terms of enjoyability, which is a really weird thing for a databook statement to comment on.
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In addition, Orochimaru saw Itachi's power as so great that he had to break away from the Akatsuki, meaning he thought it was futile to try getting stronger to eventually obtain the Sharingan, while even though he knew Pain was above him, he thought he could get to his level, giving Itachi a higher benchmark above Orochimaru than Pain.
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And yes, Revolutions is considered canon on VSBW. Also keep in mind that this was about 3T Itachi, and FP Tendo with all the chakra focused in him. It's pretty clear that Itachi is overall superior to Pain, if not in stats, then at least due to his abilities and intelligence.
 
You're comparing Obito's statements from several years ago, when he was much weaker and less experienced. Granted, both likely grew during that time, but there could be several different reasons why Obito suspected Itachi and was wary. And you you mentioned that Obito viewed Nagato as an underling and thereby inferior, but that doesn't necessarily mean Obito viewed Nagato as weaker. I believe that came more from the fact that Obito had manipulated Nagato his entire life, knew all of the Rinnegan's abilities, and would be capable of defeating Nagato much more easily because of it. Obito couldn't even handle the power of both Rinnegan, while Nagato could, which kinda implies to me that in terms of raw power and skill, Nagato had the edge. Itachi, on the other hand, was more of a wild card due to the Mangekyo Sharingan, not to mention Itachi knew several secrets of the Akatsuki and the Hidden Leaf Village that could pose a threat if he ever chose to reveal them, which is another reason why Obito would be more wary of Itachi.

Also, Orochimaru knew nothing of Pain's full power. He didn't know about the Six Paths of Pain and each of their respective abilities, and Pain was barely even trying against Orochimaru, so don't try using that as a statement to prove Itachi is stronger than Pain.

Even if Itachi uses the Susanoo, Pain will use the Chibaku Tensei to retaliate it. You said that Itachi would stop Pain from using it, except that when Pain used it against Naruto, he hid to give himself time to activate it, which he will do here. He'd use the other Pains as distractions while he activated it, and there's absolutely no proof that he needed all of the Pains disabled to use it. That's just a random theory. The Chibaku Tensei he performed was done after he'd been heavily taxed from his fight with Naruto and after using his Chaotic Shinra Tensei, meaning it should be more powerful in this battle. Pain also admitted that he could make it bigger, and was about to do that against 8-tailed Kurama before Naruto regained control of himself. So he'd activate the Chibaku Tensei which would suck Itachi in and kill him. And no, Itachi could not destroy the Chibaku Tensei's core. It took the combined attacks of KCM Naruto, Itachi's Susanoo, and Killer B to destroy it. To state that Itachi by himself could destroy it is just a fallacy and blatantly false.

Nagato could also use his black receiver rods to keep Itachi restrained and steal his soul with the Human Path, which were strong enough to keep SM Naruto from moving. SM Naruto had to use his Rasengan to destroy several of them, and SM Naruto should at least be comparable to Itachi. I am personally of the belief that the Pains are stronger than SM Naruto since they fought him after using the Chaotic Shinra Tensei and when they were farther away from Nagato's body, which is explicitly stated on Nagato's profile. Nagato has too many advantages with his numerous abilities, his bodies prevent Itachi from stopping Nagato with his Tsukuyomi, and they could all just surround and pummel Itachi. Though it would be a tough battle and Itachi would probably destroy almost all of the Paths, Nagato would still win.
 
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You're comparing Obito's statements from several years ago, when he was much weaker and less experienced. Granted, both likely grew during that time, but there could be several different reasons why Obito suspected Itachi and was wary. And you you mentioned that Obito viewed Nagato as an underling and thereby inferior, but that doesn't necessarily mean Obito viewed Nagato as weaker. I believe that came more from the fact that Obito had manipulated Nagato his entire life, knew all of the Rinnegan's abilities, and would be capable of defeating Nagato much more easily because of it. Obito couldn't even handle the power of both Rinnegan, while Nagato could, which kinda implies to me that in terms of raw power and skill, Nagato had the edge. Itachi, on the other hand, was more of a wild card due to the Mangekyo Sharingan, not to mention Itachi knew several secrets of the Akatsuki and the Hidden Leaf Village that could pose a threat if he ever chose to reveal them, which is another reason why Obito would be more wary of Itachi.
Even at that time, he's considered stronger than when he fought Minato, and Minato considered that Obito a greater threat than Pain. Based on his ability as a shinobi, he concluded that he was just using Pain, meaning he's superior.
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 440, page 7
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 440, page 9

Also, Orochimaru knew nothing of Pain's full power. He didn't know about the Six Paths of Pain and each of their respective abilities, and Pain was barely even trying against Orochimaru, so don't try using that as a statement to prove Itachi is stronger than Pain.
He felt the full force of a Shinra Tensei from FP Tendo. And was he barely trying? He used a preeeeetty big one.
In Naruto, who would win in a fight between Pain and Orochimaru, and why? -  Quora

Even if Itachi uses the Susanoo, Pain will use the Chibaku Tensei to retaliate it. You said that Itachi would stop Pain from using it, except that when Pain used it against Naruto, he hid to give himself time to activate it, which he will do here. He'd use the other Pains as distractions while he activated it, and there's absolutely no proof that he needed all of the Pains disabled to use it. That's just a random theory. The Chibaku Tensei he performed was done after he'd been heavily taxed from his fight with Naruto and after using his Chaotic Shinra Tensei, meaning it should be more powerful in this battle. Pain also admitted that he could make it bigger, and was about to do that against 8-tailed Kurama before Naruto regained control of himself. So he'd activate the Chibaku Tensei which would suck Itachi in and kill him. And no, Itachi could not destroy the Chibaku Tensei's core. It took the combined attacks of KCM Naruto, Itachi's Susanoo, and Killer B to destroy it. To state that Itachi by himself could destroy it is just a fallacy and blatantly false.
No? He just ran away.
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 438, page 15
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 439, page 0
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 439, page 1

It's not random, it's based on the fact that he needed to drop the other Paths to use Chaotic Shinra Tensei, as he has to pour all his chakra into Tendo to output such tremendous amounts of power.
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 429, page 8
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 430, page 12

Considering that right after saying this, the CT fell apart and he admitted CT didn't work, it's probable that he was overestimating himself.
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Edo Nagato>>Pain, and if you disagree, that's accepted on his profile so it's considered true for this match. And in terms of raw power, Itachi probably can't destroy it, but the Totsuka Blade is a non physical weapon, so the durability of its target shouldn't matter, so it should be able to stab through the core.
Nagato could also use his black receiver rods to keep Itachi restrained and steal his soul with the Human Path, which were strong enough to keep SM Naruto from moving. SM Naruto had to use his Rasengan to destroy several of them, and SM Naruto should at least be comparable to Itachi. I am personally of the belief that the Pains are stronger than SM Naruto since they fought him after using the Chaotic Shinra Tensei and when they were farther away from Nagato's body, which is explicitly stated on Nagato's profile. Nagato has too many advantages with his numerous abilities, his bodies prevent Itachi from stopping Nagato with his Tsukuyomi, and they could all just surround and pummel Itachi. Though it would be a tough battle and Itachi would probably destroy almost all of the Paths, Nagato would still win.
No, they pierced Base Naruto. SM Naruto easily destroyed those rods.
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 435, page 13
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 433, page 12
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 441, page 11
 
Even at that time, he's considered stronger than when he fought Minato, and Minato considered that Obito a greater threat than Pain. Based on his ability as a shinobi, he concluded that he was just using Pain, meaning he's superior.
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 440, page 7
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 440, page 9
Still don't think that means Obito's AP is necessarily greater than Pain's, just his abilities.
He felt the full force of a Shinra Tensei from FP Tendo. And was he barely trying? He used a preeeeetty big one.
In Naruto, who would win in a fight between Pain and Orochimaru, and why? -  Quora
Just because it was big doesn't necessarily mean it was full power: Nagato was undoubtedly holding back to test Orochimaru.
No? He just ran away.
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 438, page 15
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 439, page 0
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 439, page 1
At least in the anime, he ran away and hid. In a battle, he'd likely hide to properly perform the technique.
Considering that right after saying this, the CT fell apart and he admitted CT didn't work, it's probable that he was overestimating himself.
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We don't know that for certain, and he wouldn't need to make it larger against Itachi. I was just saying hypothetically.
Edo Nagato>>Pain, and if you disagree, that's accepted on his profile so it's considered true for this match. And in terms of raw power, Itachi probably can't destroy it, but the Totsuka Blade is a non physical weapon, so the durability of its target shouldn't matter, so it should be able to stab through the core.
What? That doesn't make sense that the Totsuka Blade could just negate durability and destroy the core. There's no proof it has that power. If it did, then why didn't Itachi just let himself be sucked up and use the Totsuka Blade to destroy it himself when he fought Edo Nagato?
No, they pierced Base Naruto. SM Naruto easily destroyed those rods.
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 435, page 13
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 433, page 12
Naruto - Digital Colored Comics chapter 441, page 11
Well, he could still use them to paralyze Itachi regardless.
 
Still don't think that means Obito's AP is necessarily greater than Pain's, just his abilities.
I wasn't saying that either. Itachi>Obito>Pain isn't an AP scale, it's an overall ability scale.
Just because it was big doesn't necessarily mean it was full power: Nagato was undoubtedly holding back to test Orochimaru.
Idk, the STs Pain used against Naruto and Kakashi didn't even seem to be that big. He might've just known Orochimaru could regen. It's not like he simply gave a light push to repel him, he pushed him hard enough that the lower half of his body morphed into white snakes after all.
At least in the anime, he ran away and hid. In a battle, he'd likely hide to properly perform the technique.
Yeah but you see, Itachi isn't a mindless rampaging beast like Naruto is. He isn't just gonna let Pain hide. Obviously if he sees Pain try to hide or flee, he's gonna pursue him.
We don't know that for certain, and he wouldn't need to make it larger against Itachi. I was just saying hypothetically.

What? That doesn't make sense that the Totsuka Blade could just negate durability and destroy the core. There's no proof it has that power. If it did, then why didn't Itachi just let himself be sucked up and use the Totsuka Blade to destroy it himself when he fought Edo Nagato?
It literally does not have a physical form. Why would physical durability matter? And it having dura neg is consistent with the fact that Zetsu compared its attack to the Yata Mirror's infinite defense, and said it makes him invincible, and the databook also says the attack is perfect, can cut down ANY enemy, and that all attacks lose their meaning against the spirit weapons.
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Well, he could still use them to paralyze Itachi regardless.
Idk about that, Itachi's more durable than the highest attack power we've seen from those rods. And anyways Pain's not tagging him with that when he has MS amped reaction speed.
 
Pain claps his hands and turns Itachi into a floating meatball.

His baby Susanoo has no feats being physically on part with 8 tail Kurama
 
Pain claps his hands and turns Itachi into a floating meatball.

His baby Susanoo has no feats being physically on part with 8 tail Kurama
Not a go to move in character, and the Totsuka Blade ignores durability so it could pierce the core. Idk if the fight would even get to that point tbh.
 
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