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Itachi vs Pain Round 3: Healthy Itachi vs prime Nagato

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Since this match up ends with Itachi victory, I'm wonder who would win, if we use Nagato in his prime.
Alive, healthy Itachi with Edo Tensei feats, greater physical stats and limited stamina vs alive, healthy Nagato with Edo Tensei feats, greater physical stats

Itachi:
Nagato:

Speed unequalized
In character
 
This is a lot tougher, but I think in the end it would have the same outcome. Itachi is definitely much smarter, I'd argue has a better suited arsenal for this battle, has greater AP with the Susanoo other than when Nagato uses chibaku tensei which he (like in the Pain fight) likely isn't to use in character, and he's likely faster, though not by as big a difference anymore. Nagato's best speed feat is catching kcm Naruto but he had help from his invisible chameleon, meanwhile Itachi is implied to be faster than EMS Sasuke who kept up with a stronger kcm Naruto and has relativistic reactions. Only win cons I can think of for Nagato are outlasting Itachi since he still definitely has more stamina, or using chibaku tensei before Itachi can stop him and Itachi isn't able to burn it away with amaterasu/destroy it with the totsuka blade/blow it up with multiple yasaka magatama attacks/substitute himself with crows/use izanagi/place Nagato under a genjutsu that makes him think he sealed Itachi when in reality he got sealed by the totsuka blade, etc. All around, while Nagato would give Itachi a much tougher time given his greater power and the fact that Itachi can't systematically lower his amazing arsenal, Itachi would take it most times with mid-high difficulty.
 
Idk man in Itachi vs Pain match I choose Itachi bc obv he’s stronger bc all of the Rinnegan power was split so Itachi can def used that to his advantage.

But in this match Nagato has a plethora of ability that he can used againts Itachi such as absorbing his chakra or soul,deva,etc and there is also possibility genjutsu doesn’t work on Nagato bc obviously Rinnegan is the higer state of Sharingan
 
Idk man in Itachi vs Pain match I choose Itachi bc obv he’s stronger bc all of the Rinnegan power was split so Itachi can def used that to his advantage.

But in this match Nagato has a plethora of ability that he can used againts Itachi such as absorbing his chakra or soul,deva,etc and there is also possibility genjutsu doesn’t work on Nagato bc obviously Rinnegan is the higer state of Sharingan
does having a higher form of dojutsu grant automatic immunity to genjutsu though? Sasuke's EMS could be affected by Tsukuyomi and Itachi was gonna use kotoamatsukami on him.
 
@GokuSparkle what if speed was equalized?
then it becomes high diff, but a lot of Itachi's win conditions don't have to do with his speed. He can still use his hax MS abilities to net the win. If Nagato is susceptible to genjutsu and he looks Itachi in the eye, he's likely gonna get Tsukuyomied, and if he doesn't, epehemeral could serve as a long enough distraction to use amaterasu or seal him away.
I mean... Sasuke Rinnegan immune to Infinite Tsukuyomi
with the ramped up perfect susanoo, which Nagato doesn't have. There are more examples of higher forms of dojutsu being affected by genjutsu than not.
 
then it becomes high diff, but a lot of Itachi's win conditions don't have to do with his speed. He can still use his hax MS abilities to net the win. If Nagato is susceptible to genjutsu and he looks Itachi in the eye, he's likely gonna get Tsukuyomied, and if he doesn't, epehemeral could serve as a long enough distraction to use amaterasu or seal him away.

with the ramped up perfect susanoo, which Nagato doesn't have. There are more examples of higher forms of dojutsu being affected by genjutsu than not.
Fair, but bc Nagato already has a prior knowledge about Itachi ability then he obv doesn’t going to looked at his eyes and Nagato can easily Pull Itachi to him and rip his soul.
 
Fair, but bc Nagato already has a prior knowledge about Itachi ability then he obv doesn’t going to looked at his eyes and Nagato can easily Pull Itachi to him and rip his soul.
Random Freaking Crap.~ Enjoy - xXitachiXx - Fanpop | Page 10

Steam Community :: :: Itachi's Crow Clone Technique

Who would win in a fight between Hit vs Itachi Uchiha? - Quora
 
Sharow clone is useless if Nagato used Bansho ten’in and absorption combo on him
I mean he can make it seem like Nagato is pulling him in but he's actually pulling in an exploding shadow clone and when Nagato grabs him to absorb his chakra, it just blows up in his face and injures him.
 
That's not a very detailed look into someone's chakra network. There's nothing that can hint that something is a clone. Besides, it's been said that you can't differentitate a clone from the original even with dojutsu. Madara stated he's the only one who can do that. Also Madara being able to do that isn't necessarily because of the rinngan. It could be his sharingan's ability overlapping into his rinnegan. The way the rinnegan works when used by its original user is really unclear.
 
That's not a very detailed look into someone's chakra network. There's nothing that can hint that something is a clone. Besides, it's been said that you can't differentitate a clone from the original even with dojutsu. Madara stated he's the only one who can do that. Also Madara being able to do that isn't necessarily because of the rinngan. It could be his sharingan's ability overlapping into his rinnegan. The way the rinnegan works when used by its original user is really unclear.
No what i said is Nagato will know if that clone is about to explode bc he can see that his chakra flow will changing
 
No what i said is Nagato will know if that clone is about to explode bc he can see that his chakra flow will changing
how do you know he can see that? And I already explained why Madara's use of the rinnegan isn't a reliable way of telling what Nagato's use of it would be like.
 
I see Nagato putting up a better fight controlling himself, but yea I think Yata mirror still comes into play to neg all anything ap based for nagato so he's not gonna win with ap. Itachi also has feats scaling to Nagato in just his Sharingan and then we see susanoo can literally destroy nagato's body so I think overall itachi wins with yata mirror negging most his ap shit and amaterasu would also come in handy to detour Nagato from pressing itachi.
 
This is basically Itachi vs Pain all over again, except Itachi only needs to outsmart and one-shot once instead of 6/6+ times.
Itachi FRA.
 
This is basically Itachi vs Pain all over again, except Itachi only needs to outsmart and one-shot once instead of 6/6+ times.
Itachi FRA.
I wouldn't say that, Nagato makes Pain look like a chump honestly, despite the decrease in numbers and range. Though I agree Itachi would win.
 
Does it really matter when most of Itachi's win cons ignore durability anyway?
Well things like Amaterasu wouldn't damage Nagato as quickly and he could see shinra tensei or preta path in response, Tsukuyomi/other sharingan genjutsu working on the actual Rinnegan is more debatable, Nagato is a lot faster than Pain so it'd be harder to hit him with the totsuka blade, etc.
 
Well things like Amaterasu wouldn't damage Nagato as quickly and he could see shinra tensei or preta path in response,
No, if Amaterasu hit him it'll do irreparable damage to him, if not outright kill him. He lost an arm to it as an Edo Tensei, but quickly regenerated; a luxury he won't have with an alive body.
He could potentially absorb it of course, but that takes a couple of seconds (as we've seen when Madara absorbed Sasuke's Amaterasu), which could create an opening for Itachi to use the Totsuka blade.
Tsukuyomi/other sharingan genjutsu working on the actual Rinnegan is more debatable,
It's really not. The man has no feats of resisting genjutsu, and he lacks a Kekkei Genkai, which is a prerequisite for resisting high level genjutsu such as Tsukuyomi with Sharingan powers.
Nagato is a lot faster than Pain so it'd be harder to hit him with the totsuka blade, etc.
Nagato is actually immobilized and crippled lol, so that's not happening.
 
No, if Amaterasu hit him it'll do irreparable damage to him, if not outright kill him. He lost an arm to it as an Edo Tensei, but quickly regenerated; a luxury he won't have with an alive body.
He could potentially absorb it of course, but that takes a couple of seconds (as we've seen when Madara absorbed Sasuke's Amaterasu), which could create an opening for Itachi to use the Totsuka blade.

It's really not. The man has no feats of resisting genjutsu, and he lacks a Kekkei Genkai, which is a prerequisite for resisting high level genjutsu such as Tsukuyomi with Sharingan powers.

Nagato is actually immobilized and crippled lol, so that's not happening.
It only did irreparable damage to him because he laid there taking the amaterasu for several minutes while Itachi talked with Naruto about KA. If he'd reacted instantly with shinra tensei it would do minimal to moderate damage at most.

True, a distraction is how he sealed Nagato in the first place.

Well Itachi not trying it on him implies he's at least somewhat resistant to genjutsu.

He's in his prime though. Speaking of, similar to Itachi he doesn't actually have a prime key. Probably something to fix before this match concludes this time.
 
It only did irreparable damage to him because he laid there taking the amaterasu for several minutes while Itachi talked with Naruto about KA. If he'd reacted instantly with shinra tensei it would do minimal to moderate damage at most.
Damage which he can't heal (without using the Naraka Path, but that's not happening in the middle of combat), which is very important. Nagato isn't a corpse like Pain, so injuries and pain are factors to consider.
True, a distraction is how he sealed Nagato in the first place.
Indeed.
Well Itachi not trying it on him implies he's at least somewhat resistant to genjutsu.
Nope, using it on him would've been utterly useless because he's being directly controlled by Kabuto.
He's in his prime though. Speaking of, similar to Itachi he doesn't actually have a prime key. Probably something to fix before this match concludes this time.
Possibly, he would have access to the Gedo Mazo as well for what it's worth.
 
Damage which he can't heal (without using the Naraka Path, but that's not happening in the middle of combat), which is very important. Nagato isn't a corpse like Pain, so injuries and pain are factors to consider.

Indeed.

Nope, using it on him would've been utterly useless because he's being directly controlled by Kabuto.

Possibly, he would have access to the Gedo Mazo as well for what it's worth.
Yeah I know I just don't think amaterasu is gonna be a huge deal.

Hm, well I suppose it makes sense for Kabuto to remotely be able to disrupt their chakra network. Then again, Nagato couldn't remotely snap Pain out of genjutsu so idk how that works.

Oh yeah, that's a thing. Speaking of prime keys, did you check out the Itachi one?
 
Yeah I know I just don't think amaterasu is gonna be a huge deal.
I think it'll be a huge deal. At the very least it'll be a huge threat that Nagato will be on the lookout for, which will definitely create openings for Itachi; especially when he figures out the 5 second cool down.
Hm, well I suppose it makes sense for Kabuto to remotely be able to disrupt their chakra network. Then again, Nagato couldn't remotely snap Pain out of genjutsu so idk how that works.
Not only disrupting their chakra networks. Kabuto can literally cancel out their personalities, and directly control their movements like a form of body puppetry, so even if Itachi completely destroyed his Mind; Kabuto would've just controlled his body like a puppet. The only possible counter to Edo Tensei is to overpower the user (like Hashirama could apparently do) or use Kotoamatsukami (like Itachi did)
Oh yeah, that's a thing. Speaking of prime keys, did you check out the Itachi one?
I just saw it, good work.
 
I think it'll be a huge deal. At the very least it'll be a huge threat that Nagato will be on the lookout for, which will definitely create openings for Itachi; especially when he figures out the 5 second cool down.

Not only disrupting their chakra networks. Kabuto can literally cancel out their personalities, and directly control their movements like a form of body puppetry, so even if Itachi completely destroyed his Mind; Kabuto would've just controlled his body like a puppet. The only possible counter to Edo Tensei is to overpower the user (like Hashirama could apparently do) or use Kotoamatsukami (like Itachi did)

I just saw it, good work.
Well yeah I don't think it's a non-threat, just that it's not gonna be the thing that gives Itachi the win. I agree with the latter half.

I guess it is somewhat different from Nagato's remote control, but genjutsu actually paralyzes the opponent right? Like forces them to stay still almost like they're tied up or something, so would that work?

Oh shoot I just saw that I forgot to consider his Susanoo'o for striking strength and durability, but I can't revise it anymore for some reason.
 
Well yeah I don't think it's a non-threat, just that it's not gonna be the thing that gives Itachi the win. I agree with the latter half.
Fair enough.
I guess it is somewhat different from Nagato's remote control, but genjutsu actually paralyzes the opponent right? Like forces them to stay still almost like they're tied up or something, so would that work?
Yeah, it does, but it needs to directly affect their mind I believe. In this case Kabuto has control over their bodies regardless of their mental or physical state.
Think of Edo Tensei like organic puppets, similar to Sasori's for example. If you destroy one of his puppets' minds and paralyzed it, he'd still be able to manipulate it with strings, right? Edo Tensei is kinda like that in a sense. Kabuto is the puppet master, Nagato is the puppet.
Oh shoot I just saw that I forgot to consider his Susanoo'o for striking strength and durability, but I can't revise it anymore for some reason.
It got locked by a mod, I believe. Don't worry about, I can fix it later. Though if you wanna do it yourself, you can request for a content moderator or an admin to unlock the profile for you.
 
Lol I knew after two fights this would come
Only thing I remember it took Itachi's strongest attack+ Naruto's strongest attack + Bee's strongest attack to blow chibaku tensei otherwise it would go differently perhaps (itachi had help in that fight but still outsmarted nagato anyways & Seal him) so idk how it will actually go
Itachi has to Finish off nagato Pre chibaku tensei or Pre outlasting him
Still I See itachi has more win conditions & not to mention he has superior speed but I see nagato has many win conditions as well
 
Fair enough.

Yeah, it does, but it needs to directly affect their mind I believe. In this case Kabuto has control over their bodies regardless of their mental or physical state.
Think of Edo Tensei like organic puppets, similar to Sasori's for example. If you destroy one of his puppets' minds and paralyzed it, he'd still be able to manipulate it with strings, right? Edo Tensei is kinda like that in a sense. Kabuto is the puppet master, Nagato is the puppet.

It got locked by a mod, I believe. Don't worry about, I can fix it later. Though if you wanna do it yourself, you can request for a content moderator or an admin to unlock the profile for you.
Hm...well you make a solid case. I'm just not sure it's enough to 100% say edo zombies are immune to genjutsu.

Sure what mods/admins deal mainly with Naruto (I could ask Antvasima but I'm not sure how long that would take)?
 
Lol I knew after two fights this would come
Only thing I remember it took Itachi's strongest attack+ Naruto's strongest attack + Bee's strongest attack to blow chibaku tensei otherwise it would go differently perhaps (itachi had help in that fight but still outsmarted nagato anyways & Seal him) so idk how it will actually go
Itachi has to Finish off nagato Pre chibaku tensei or Pre outlasting him
Still I See itachi has more win conditions & not to mention he has superior speed but I see nagato has many win conditions as well
Well I talked a bit how how Itachi could potentially deal with chibaku tensei.
Only win cons I can think of for Nagato are outlasting Itachi since he still definitely has more stamina, or using chibaku tensei before Itachi can stop him and Itachi isn't able to burn it away with amaterasu/destroy it with the totsuka blade/blow it up with multiple yasaka magatama attacks/substitute himself with crows/use izanagi/place Nagato under a genjutsu that makes him think he sealed Itachi when in reality he got sealed by the totsuka blade, etc. All around, while Nagato would give Itachi a much tougher time given his greater power and the fact that Itachi can't systematically lower his amazing arsenal, Itachi would take it most times with mid-high difficulty.
 
Well I talked a bit how how Itachi could potentially deal with chibaku tensei.
I think when chinaku tensei happens he concentrates only to blow it up in Character as he did with in that fight & in that fight he needed help but yeah he can use izanagi but what if nagato only captures him in chibaku tensei , drain & incap him
I dont think he has that much time to throw his strongest attack again & again
Don't think amaterasu or totsuka blade will burn it/blow it up otherwise he would use them instead of his strongest physical attack
 
I think when chinaku tensei happens he concentrates only to blow it up in Character as he did with in that fight & in that fight he needed help but yeah he can use izanagi but what if nagato only captures him in chibaku tensei , drain & incap him
I dont think he has that much time to throw his strongest attack again & again
Don't think amaterasu or totsuka blade will burn it/blow it up otherwise he would use them instead of his strongest physical attack
Being stuck under those heavy rocks pushing so hard against you is gonna kill you, and also izanagi is described as erasing ANYTHING disadvantageous to the user, so that would include being stuck inside chibaku tensei. It's just only been shown as being used for death.

Or PIS because Kishimoto didn't want Itachi to steal the spotlight from Naruto and Bee TOO much? Also genjutsu (if that works) or crow substitution is also an option.
 
Hm...well you make a solid case. I'm just not sure it's enough to 100% say edo zombies are immune to genjutsu.
They're not inherently immune to it. It's just a loophole due to Kabuto directly controlling them. When we use them in VS Battles here for example, they won't be immune because plot devices like Kabuto controlling them are not taken into account.
Sure what mods/admins deal mainly with Naruto (I could ask Antvasima but I'm not sure how long that would take)?
Try asking @Damage3245, @DarkDragonMedeus, or @Shadowbokunohero
 
Alright. Well even in that case, Itachi needs to look directly at Nagato's eyes to cast genjutsu, and ephemeral probably isn't powerful enough to hold someone like Nagato.

Alright I'll do that tomorrow.
 
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