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(GRACE) Mahito VS Nagato

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TauanVictor

TauanVictor

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"Special Grade Cursed Spirit" Mahito VS "The Rinnegan Master" Nagato​

  • Starting Distance: 50m
  • Both in-character
  • Equalized speed
  • Base (Shibuya Incident) Mahito | Edo Tensei Nagato
LOCATION:
anBn


Mahito: 2 (@speedster352, @noisyPitta)
Nagato: 7 (@MintyBoi1, @Saqphire, @DavidTPPM, @Arkenis, @Mamaroza, @K4yshey1, @TauanVictor)
Inconclusive:

 
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Nagato has AP/dura advantage, higher regen and more hax. Although he doesn't have immortality negation, he does have Soul Manip and Sealing(that can store bodies and souls), so he could get around it. Although I don't remember if it is combat applicable
 
K4yshey1 said:
Nagato has AP/dura advantage, higher regen and more hax. Although he doesn't have immortality negation, he does have Soul Manip and Sealing(that can store bodies and souls), so he could get around it. Although I don't remember if it is combat applicable
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My knowledge on Naruto is limited but he needs to touch Mahito to rip his soul rigth? Looks like this one of those "one touch" figths
 
Yeah, that’s right. Nagato should be more skilled being a top tier around the level of people like Itachi who’s the definition of prodigy and Naruto who himself is a combat genius likely relative to or above Yuji
 
Nagato has a massive hax and skill advantage as well as immortality and plenty of win cons. Mahito has uuuhm, idk ngl. Nagato might just hit him with a single Shinra tensei and vaporize him. And in case he survives that, Nagato soul steals him before mahito regens, or seals him into a chibaku tensei.
 
DavidTPPM said:
Nagato has a massive hax and skill advantage as well as immortality and plenty of win cons. Mahito has uuuhm, idk ngl. Nagato might just hit him with a single Shinra tensei and vaporize him. And in case he survives that, Nagato soul steals him before mahito regens, or seals him into a chibaku tensei.
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Mahito's Regeneration prevents him from dying from ST.
 
Jesus Christ. Mahito is Incorporeal and Abstract. Nagato cannot even hit him with anything he has maybe outside of Human Path soul extraction given he only has NPI for Human Path, the chances of Nagato using that before Mahito touches him is very small given it isn't something Nagato leads with. Even if he did, the moment Mahito feels threatened he'll go Domain gg and oneshot Nagato, something he can pull off before his soul can be extracted given his control over his own soul.
 
They’re under the abilities granted via being a cursed spirit, but even with those Nagato should be way more likely to touch him than Mahito touching him. He used it against Naruto which was his only fight shown with his physical body so it should come into play. Nagato should avoid being touched considering summons and skill advantage, even Nobara could. The second Human Path gets him it’s over so Domain could easily just not come into play.
 
MintyBoi1 said:
They’re under the abilities granted via being a cursed spirit, but even with those Nagato should be way more likely to touch him than Mahito touching him. He used it against Naruto which was his only fight shown with his physical body so it should come into play. Nagato should avoid being touched considering summons and skill advantage, even Nobara could. The second Human Path gets him it’s over so Domain could easily just not come into play.
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Nagato only ever used Human Path when he was being controlled by Kabuto. He is not here (?) otherwise he uses it for interrogation. Even if by a miracle Nagato somehow did touch him before, Mahito has Soul Manipulation of his own and he would be able to unleash his Domain before his soul is extracted and destroy Nagato. (He would probably use this before the fight gets to that point but I digress)
 
How’s he gonna release his Domain when it takes just a second for your soul to be ripped out? Mahito plays around a lot before considering using his Domain in most fights anyway. It’d be a lot more reasonable to assume Nagato sees he can’t hit him and uses the Human Path for the win.
 
By making direct physical contact, the Human Path allows its user to paralyze their victim, instantly access their mind and read it, then physically pull their soul out of their body, instantly killing them. I think I’m just gonna vote Nagato
 
Nagato not using human path is a really bad argument. Nagato only had 1 short onscreen fight in which he used the human path to steal a large amount of his opponents souls and forced Hanzo into retreating.

Pain never had an opportunity to use it since his opponents were either fodder who he didn't need it against or too strong/fast to use it on them.
 
TauanVictor said:
Gotcha! Nagato here is controlled by Kabuto, otherwise it would be Six Paths.
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Jesus Christ I am only one person why you guys jumping on me all at once?

Nothing in he OP says that's the case and nothing about Edo Tensei say they woud be controlled by their but whatever I give you that. The reason Nagato even used Human Path against Kabuto. But whatever whatever.


To satisfy all of you. Let's assume Nagato for some reason immediately willing to use Human Path. That requires him to get close and restrain a guy who can phase through every single thing Nagato has. Like, everything. Let's say Nagato did managed to get close and somehow did touch him. Guess what? Mahito has Soul Manipulation of his own, and Resistance to it. Touching someone, grabbing their soul and pulling it out is far longer process than touching someone and destroying their soul immediately; The moment Nagato dares to touch Mahito with Human Path, Mahito will give of a sadistic grin and go Domain gg on him, and utterly obliterate him in that very instant.
 
ExSENNA said:
Jesus Christ I am only one person why you guys jumping on me all at once?

Nothing in he OP says that's the case and nothing about Edo Tensei say they woud be controlled by their but whatever I give you that. The reason Nagato even used Human Path against Kabuto. But whatever whatever.


To satisfy all of you. Let's assume Nagato for some reason immediately willing to use Human Path. That requires him to get close and restrain a guy who can phase through every single thing Nagato has. Like, everything. Let's say Nagato did managed to get close and somehow did touch him. Guess what? Mahito has Soul Manipulation of his own, and Resistance to it. Touching someone, grabbing their soul and pulling it out is far longer process than touching someone and destroying their soul immediately; The moment Nagato dares to touch Mahito with Human Path, Mahito will give of a sadistic grin and go Domain gg on him, and utterly obliterate him in that very instant.
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I'll take it as a vote.
 
ExSENNA said:
To satisfy all of you. Let's assume Nagato for some reason immediately willing to use Human Path. That requires him to get close and restrain a guy who can phase through every single thing Nagato has. Like, everything.
Click to expand...
Mahito is still affected by gravity so he should be not phasing through ST or CT.
ExSENNA said:
The moment Nagato dares to touch Mahito with Human Path, Mahito will give of a sadistic grin and go Domain gg on him, and utterly obliterate him in that very instant.
Click to expand...
Uhm…
Human Path: Paralysis Inducement, Mind Reading, Non-Physical Interaction, and Soul Manipulation (By making direct physical contact, the Human Path allows its user to paralyze their victim, instantly access their mind and read it, then physically pull their soul out of their body, instantly killing them
Click to expand...
Mahito gets touched, paralyzed, and sealed away the moment they touch each other.
 
Everyone can touch Mahito, but only Yuji can damage his soul.Cursed spirit are made CE so why wouldn't Nagato's NPI be enough.
 
DavidTPPM said:
Mahito is still affected by gravity so he should be not phasing through ST or CT.

Uhm…

Mahito gets touched, paralyzed, and sealed away the moment they touch each other.
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Come on now, many Incorporeal characters are affected by gravity for storytelling purposes. That doesn't mean we'd assume gravity attacks without NPI would hit them because "muh they are affected by gravity"


Mahito resists Soul Manipulation and has Soul Manipulation of his own, can change his shape by changing the shape of his soul which is thought-based, effectively making his Domain thought-based (by changing the shape of his soul he can manifest necessary gesture to unleash his domain faster than his soul can get extracted even assuming Nagato can even pin him to uss Human Path just to satisfy all of you). On top of that, Edo Nagato is not athletic at all and can barely stand, he doesn't even try to dodge attacks (he blocks but that won't work again other abilities will not land on Mahito due to lack of NPI.
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
This is a NLF.
Click to expand...
It is NLF to say Nagato, who lacks NPI for all but one of his abilities, can hit Mahito, who is Incorporeal.

EL_xWatcher1234x said:
Everyone can touch Mahito, but only Yuji can damage his soul.Cursed spirit are made CE so why wouldn't Nagato's NPI be enough.
Click to expand...
Everyone can touch Mahito because everyone in JJK has NPI necessary to touch him. His soul-related Immortality is additional defense he has.


To summarize, my main argument here is that Idle Transfiguration is better than Human Path and is much more instant. Again, to satisty you all, even if we say Nagato touches Mahito first, it doesn't matter because in that very moment Mahito will just go Domain GG on Nagato. As I said above, Mahito resists Soul Manipulation and has Soul Manipulation of his own, which would delay Soul Extraction if not outright prevent it as a whole. Him being paralyzed won't matter for reasons I mentioned earlier. This means Mahito's Domain would go off faster than Nagato can extract his soul every time, even doing all kinds of brain gymnastics to assume Nagato can touch him before Mahito touches him or just goes Domain GG beforehand
 
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Abstract and incorporeal states don’t mean you resist gravity, otherwise nothing would keep Mahito tethered to the ground. As for Domain, I’m pretty sure if Mahito is touched by Nagato, he wouldn’t immediately jump to Domain. He mainly uses it when he’s confident he’ll finish the fight. And his resistance of Soul Manipulation gives him no resistance to having his ripped out, it just lets him endure hits targeting his soul. So Nagato finishing with Human Path is valid.

As for Domain Expansion, “while within, any of the owners techniques used are guaranteed to hit their opponent, however, the techniques can still be blocked by their opponent.”. The description also notes that breaking the inside of outside of the Domain could let you escape, I think Nagato could just Almighty Push and break out or block the hands given the AP and range difference.
 
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
This is a NLF.
Click to expand...
You don't know what NLF means blud. Nagato only has NPI via one technique and Mahito has accepted intangibility that Nagato can't bypass without a single technique. Saying that Mahito remains phasing through his attacks isn't an No limits fallacy in any degree.
 
MintyBoi1 said:
Abstract and incorporeal states don’t mean you resist gravity, otherwise nothing would keep Mahito tethered to the ground.
Click to expand...
That's quite literally what Abstract and Incorpreal states do. Gravity doesn't sudden allow you to interact with intangible, abstractions. Gravity has never provided NPI so not sure where you got this from.
 
Either incon or Nagato just outlasts Mahito here. Mahito's main win con here is him needing to touch or be close in range with Nagato, Nagato doesn't need to fight like that and can easily summon numerous animals to distract Mahito and waste his time. Basho and Shinra really make this just impossible for Mahito to ever get his win con in.

I'll be voting Nagato.
 
I see there's some confusion on Mahito's existence, and curses as a whole... First and higher grades are physically interact-able beings. This is something cleared up very early on in the series. Also we can see Curses get effected by their surroundings all the time so I'm unsure what is misunderstood about them.
 
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MintyBoi1 said:
Abstract and incorporeal states don’t mean you resist gravity, otherwise nothing would keep Mahito tethered to the ground. As for Domain, I’m pretty sure if Mahito is touched by Nagato, he wouldn’t immediately jump to Domain. He mainly uses it when he’s confident he’ll finish the fight. And his resistance of Soul Manipulation gives him no resistance to having his ripped out, it just lets him endure hits targeting his soul. So Nagato finishing with Human Path is valid.

As for Domain Expansion, “while within, any of the owners techniques used are guaranteed to hit their opponent, however, the techniques can still be blocked by their opponent.”. The description also notes that breaking the inside of outside of the Domain could let you escape, I think Nagato could just Almighty Push and break out or block the hands given the AP and range difference.
Click to expand...
Okay, let's also assume that Incorporeal Mahito is somehow affected and harmed by Nagato's Shinra Tensei who lacks NPı, just to make you happy. Then what? It won't kill him because it doesn't harm is soul, would probably reduce him to a puddle. Mahito, seeing that display of power and understanding that he can't get close to Nagato, will go Domain GG.


Mahito is cautious and cowardly, if he ever feels threatened he'll go Domain GG. The only reason he doesn't use it very often is because he is often fighting against Yuji and he can't use it against him because of Sukuna, even then Mahito still risked using it in their final fight. Domain is a very go-to ability for Mahito.

Not all Domains are the same. Mahito's Domain allows him to affect souls of others without needing to touch them, this isn't something Nagato can block. Nagato will not have the time to break out of or harm the Domain has he will be busy having his soul distorted and destroyed by Mahito, a threatened Mahito if he ever used Domain in the first place and would obliterate Nagato's soul right away.

Blocking the hands will not matter. Mahito does not need to fully manifest his Domain and trap Nagato inside to use it. Domain is active before Domain is fully materialized.
 
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ExSENNA said:
Okay, let's also assume that Incorporeal Mahito is somehow affected and harmed by Nagato's Shinra Tensei who lacks NPı, just to make you happy. Then what? It won't kill him because it doesn't harm is soul, would probably reduce him to a puddle. Mahito, seeing that display of power and understanding that he can't get close to Nagato, will go Domain GG.


Mahito is cautious and cowardly, if he ever feels threatened he'll go Domain GG. The only reason he doesn't use it very often is because he is often fighting against Yuji and he can't use it against him because of Sukuna, even then Mahito still risked using it in their final fight. Domain is a very go-to ability for Mahito.

Not all Domains are the same. Mahito's Domain allows him to affect souls of others without needing to touch them, this isn't something Nagato can block. Nagato will not have the time to break out of or harm the Domain has he will be busy having his soul distorted and destroyed by Mahito, a threatened Mahito if he ever used Domain in the first place and would obliterate Nagato's soul right away.

Blocking the hands will not matter. Mahito does not need to fully manifest his Domain and trap Nagato inside to use it. The range is active before Domain is fullt materialized.
Click to expand...
I'd agree with this win con if it was actually viable for Mahito. Unfortunately OP has set the starting distance as 50m, this is a range never shown for Mahito's domain expansion. He's at most expanded it several meters and that is all. Furthermore the expansion of a domain for greater distance weakens it and also takes more time to expand it, Nagato can just push Mahito away with Shinra, then crush him.
 
This is such a one sided look at the fight, desperately trying to get Mahito to win lol.
ExSENNA said:
To summarize, my main argument here is that Idle Transfiguration is better than Human Path and is much more instant.
Click to expand...
No, the moment Mahito gets grabbed he's immobilized. They both one-shot but HP actually immobilizes you. If Kabuto grabs Mahito he literally can't do anything due to paralysis.
ExSENNA said:
Again, to satisty you all, even if we say Nagato touches Mahito first
Click to expand...
You're not satisfying anyone. Like literally. Nagato is both more skilled and has speed amps through shunshin. He most definitely IS touching Mahito faster.
ExSENNA said:
it doesn't matter because in that very moment Mahito will just go Domain GG on Nagato.
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He literally physically can't move he's not using a domain the moment Nagato touches him. Nagato literally just outspeeds and rips out his soul before he does anything.
ExSENNA said:
As I said above, Mahito resists Soul Manipulation and has Soul Manipulation of his own, which would delay Soul Extraction if not outright prevent it as a whole.
Click to expand...
No, he has no soul stealing/absorption resistance. Soul manipulation in general is not enough, he needs to have resistance specifically to this form of soul manipulation.

So Mahito does not resist anything here, is not outspeeding Nagato, and is not using a domain even if we ignore it being out of character.
 
I never argued ST kills Mahito, but that it’s a viable option to affect him, you don’t have to “make me happy” because I assumed gravity manipulation works on something not specified to resist. And I’m pretty sure Domains take at least a second for their affects to activate as shown by the series. In that time Nagato has options to break it if he hadn’t set up a summon which would likely attack it from the outside.
 
DavidTPPM said:
He literally physically can't move he's not using a domain the moment Nagato touches him. Nagato literally just outspeeds and rips out his soul before he does anything.
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Mahito's soul is what needs to be moved, if Nagato isn't paralyzing that then Mahito can easily do domain from his mouth or elsewhere.
 
Arkenis said:
I'd agree with this win con if it was actually viable for Mahito. Unfortunately OP has set the starting distance as 50m, this is a range never shown for Mahito's domain expansion. He's at most expanded it several meters and that is all. Furthermore the expansion of a domain for greater distance weakens it and also takes more time to expand it, Nagato can just push Mahito away with Shinra, then crush him.
Click to expand...
To clarify, my previous answer was one of the many assumptions I made to give Nagato benefit of the doubt. In no way do I think Shinra Tensei, or any other ability Nagato has with the exception of Human Path works on Mahito due to lack of NPI.

Lack of NPI = No proper effect on Incorporeal. We can go back and forth about it pointlessly.


Also, I never voted, I don't know why OP counted me for voting for Mahito.

I think this match is a stomp either way.

Stomp for Mahito: Because Mahito is Incorporeal, his ability is better than Nagato's only ability, his Domain would go off faster than Human Path can extract his soul every time.

Stomp for Nagato (Brain Gymnastics Olympics): Because Nagato has far greater AP and Range and his attacks such as Shinra can affect and harm Nagato for some reason, he pushes Nagato away and kills him over and over never giving him the room to use his ability
 
DavidTPPM said:
This is such a one sided look at the fight, desperately trying to get Mahito to win lol.

No, the moment Mahito gets grabbed he's immobilized. They both one-shot but HP actually immobilizes you. If Kabuto grabs Mahito he literally can't do anything due to paralysis.

You're not satisfying anyone. Like literally. Nagato is both more skilled and has speed amps through shunshin. He most definitely IS touching Mahito faster.

He literally physically can't move he's not using a domain the moment Nagato touches him. Nagato literally just outspeeds and rips out his soul before he does anything.

No, he has no soul stealing/absorption resistance. Soul manipulation in general is not enough, he needs to have resistance specifically to this form of soul manipulation.

So Mahito does not resist anything here, is not outspeeding Nagato, and is not using a domain even if we ignore it being out of character.
Click to expand...
Idle Transfiguration is thought-based. Mahito can change the shape of his soul to force his body to change the shape and make the necessary gesture to unleash his Domain.

Nagato in this form literally can barely stand. I say nothing for his combat skill, but he is absolutely not more athletic than Mahito and does not even bother dodging. He never used those speed amps.

People with no Soul Manipulation resistance like Naruto could delay the process. Nagato even summons King of Hell or whatever that thing is to even use Human Path and needs to pin Mahito in the first place. Grabbing someone's soul out of their body is not absorption, Mahito's control over his own soul would be enough, delay it, and he goes Domain GG. And yes, it is in character.

This is even assuming Nagato can somehow catch and restain Incorporeal Mahito.
 
ExSENNA said:
Lack of NPI = No proper effect on Incorporeal. We can go back and forth about it pointlessly.
Click to expand...
You're misinterpreting incorporeal in this context. In context Cursed Spirits do have physical forms that can be physically interacted with, the incorporeal part is what they truly are, that being nothing more than negative emotions based on their respective themes, that is why they have incorporeal. This is why the page has them as AE 2 and not 1 cuz they are not purely abstractions, they have bodies.
 
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