Super Saiyan Blue Multiplier

[Orange]

I think SSB being SSG * SSJ1 kind of makes sense; though I should note that while we did accept SSJ as a 50x multiplier, there are still note worthy inconsistencies later on since an AP multiplier can often times be more than 50x. Hence Broly going from 3-A to Low 2-C via going SSJ1, Kefla also going from 3-A to Low 2-C via SSJ transformations, and most of all; Goku/Vegeta going from 3-A to Low 2-C via going from SSG to SSGSS.

Also we will use the multiplier and the results are bigger than 50x well just do a note or rate them likely higher or something like that

 

[Bernkastelll]

Or that ssg is already low 2-C...

I was going to say it, its rlly weird that they get a tier 2 due a 50X multiplier

 

[Orange]

I was going to say it, its rlly weird that they get a tier 2 due a 50X multiplier

I was going to say it, its rlly weird that they get a tier 2 due a 50X multiplier

Well it's that gods are just two multipliers from reaching 2-c really.
And yeh

 

[StrawHatArslan]

So would this reach them to 2-C?

 

[Bernkastelll]

So would this reach them to 2-C?

pls lets not bring a 2-C discussion to this thread

 

[StrawHatArslan]

pls lets not bring a 2-C discussion to this thread

It's a question....

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Hence Broly going from 3-A to Low 2-C via going SSJ1, Kefla also going from 3-A to Low 2-C via SSJ transformations, and most of all; Goku/Vegeta going from 3-A to Low 2-C via going from SSG to SSGSS.

To be fair, the series itself more than likely does not view these increases as Infinite lol. It's more of a Wiki thing tbh.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

This makes sense to me, I agree with the OP

 

[Bernkastelll]

To be fair, the series itself more than likely does not view these increases as Infinite lol. It's more of a Wiki thing tbh.

Yeah also this, Akira isnt a power scaler, he isnt thinking that goku transformation makes him reaches as a ''4-D power level'' a proof of it its the severe AP/Dura inconsistences

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

To be fair, the series itself more than likely does not view these increases as Infinite lol. It's more of a Wiki thing tbh.

This. Dragon Ball does not consider 4-D as infinitely greater than 3-D. I highly doubt Toriyama and the writers actually consider the whole 4-D stuff when writing DB lol

 

[Darkmon_cns]

This. Dragon Ball does not consider 4-D as infinitely greater than 3-D. I highly doubt Toriyama and the writers actually consider the whole 4-D stuff when writing DB lol

Honestly- most storys on this wiki probably don't, but that isn't horrible relevant to the thread

 

[Bernkastelll]

Honestly- most storys on this wiki probably don't, but that isn't horrible relevant to the thread

well, it kinda is if someone try to use the argument that the multiplier is a inconsistence because his AP doesnt become 50x only in SSBlue but ''Infinitely higher''

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

Honestly- most storys on this wiki probably don't, but that isn't horrible relevant to the thread

Yeah, it isn't that relevant tbh. Just wanted to point out that DB in general (Super, Heroes etc.) doesn't take into consideration the whole "4-D is infinitely above 3-D" stuff.

 

[DivineAura44]

But remember the characters sometimes hold back they almost always get stronger in middle of a fight and that the gap between characters us bigger than we thought.
For ap, dura and stuff like that we will only accept it when there isn't soo much inconsistencies and contradictions, and for speed we will use it normally

A gap between 3-A and Low 2-C is infinite. A finite multiplier i.e. Super Saiyan, Shouldn't give you 2-C. Which is why there is only 2 options. 2-C God Goku, which in turn would make Super Saiyan 2 and 3 have a multiplier and Super Saiyan Blue a full 2-C, or no x50 multiplier for Super Saiyan Blue.

 

[AKM sama]

This makes sense to me, I agree with the OP

What part of the OP? The OP contains stuff from both sides.

 

[DivineAura44]

Lowkey surprising something as big as this isn't staff discussion.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

What part of the OP? The OP contains stuff from both sides.

Do you have a summary of how the scaling might change?

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Do you have a summary of how the scaling might change?

It won't, only the speed will I think, the 2-C ratings for those that have it are based on surpassing beerus

 

[DivineAura44]

So if this went through here would be the changes
SSJ2 = 100x
SSJ3 = 400x
Fusion = At least 400x
SSG = At least 20,000x
SSB = At least 1,000,000x
SSBKKX20 = At least 20,000,000x

Something tells me this isn't going through.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I brought this up in the previous threat. Goku went from being stomped by base Kefla in SSG to fighting equally with her SSJ form in SSB. This actually proves SSB uses the MSSJ multiplier because MSSJ > SSJ.

AKM tried saying Kefla was holding back because she was having a good time. However, so was Goku, in fact he was fighting on par with her no problem. The entire time he had a smile on his face. There’s also no reason for Kefla to hold back because she was enjoying herself while stomping Goku.

Not to mention, the moment Goku used Kaioken he was overpowering her. The only time she got a hit on Kaioken blue Goku was when she took him off guard.

So with all the statements and the feat to support it, I think there’s no reason to assume 50x is wrong.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

So if this went through here would be the changes
SSJ2 = 100x
SSJ3 = 400x
Fusion = At least 400x
SSG = At least 20,000x
SSB = At least 1,000,000x
SSBKKX20 = At least 20,000,000x

Something tells me this isn't going through.

Literally noone has objected- and I don't think SSG's 20,000 comes from anywhere

 

[DivineAura44]

Literally noone has objected- and I don't think SSG's 20,000 comes from anywhere

It comes from being stronger than Super Vegito who should be 20,000x because Base Fusion is stronger than SSJ3 Goku and SSJ3 Goku would be 400x as they would have no reason to deny it. x50 for the Super part (aka Super Saiyan) and you get 400 x 50. Or 20,000.

 

[Vietthai96]

It comes from being stronger than Super Vegito who should be 20,000x because Base Fusion is stronger than SSJ3 Goku and SSJ3 Goku would be 400x as they would have no reason to deny it. x50 for the Super part (aka Super Saiyan) and you get 400 x 50. Or 20,000.

There is no SSJ2 or SSJ3 multiplier

 

[Darkmon_cns]

There is no SSJ2 or SSJ3 multiplier

I mean- there is it's just not accepted, anyway it's best not to talk about this here, this is about SSB

 

[DivineAura44]

There is no SSJ2 or SSJ3 multiplier

Base Form Vegito > SSJ3 Goku no?

 

[DivineAura44]

I mean- there is it's just not accepted, anyway it's best not to talk about this here, this is about SSB

Very well. That'll be my last point on it.

 

[Orange]

I completely agree zamasu-sama's. Thus I agree also for the usage of ssb being a 50x multiplier

 

[Orange]

A gap between 3-A and Low 2-C is infinite. A finite multiplier i.e. Super Saiyan, Shouldn't give you 2-C. Which is why there is only 2 options. 2-C God Goku, which in turn would make Super Saiyan 2 and 3 have a multiplier and Super Saiyan Blue a full 2-C, or no x50 multiplier for Super Saiyan Blue.

Or or the verse actually doesn't care about the gae between it, or that 2-c is legit.
Or that the verse doesn't care, but treats the multipliers as legit a d thus they should be used.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I brought this up in the previous threat. Goku went from being stomped by base Kefla in SSG to fighting equally with her SSJ form in SSB. This actually proves SSB uses the MSSJ multiplier because MSSJ > SSJ.

AKM tried saying Kefla was holding back because she was having a good time. However, so was Goku, in fact he was fighting on par with her no problem. The entire time he had a smile on his face. There’s also no reason for Kefla to hold back because she was enjoying herself while stomping Goku.

Not to mention, the moment Goku used Kaioken he was overpowering her. The only time she got a hit on Kaioken blue Goku was when she took him off guard.

So with all the statements and the feat to support it, I think there’s no reason to assume 50x is wrong.

I completely agree with this.

 

[Orange]

It seems that the majority of people agree, and most inconsistencies and plot points has been argued.
Should we start with all the speed and its jazz or wait for more input?

 

[Vietthai96]

I mean- there is it's just not accepted, anyway it's best not to talk about this here, this is about SSB

Nah it is not about accepted or not, more like the verse totally ignore any kind of numeral multiplier after the whole Frieza Arc, that why SSJ2 and 3 and above being treated as unquantifiable multipliers above previous form

The only problem with this is kind of what we use multiplier for, i suddenly think about a case: SSB make Goku jump from 3-A to Low 2-C, and Low 2-C as we all know is infinite above 3-A, but at the same time transform not just make them stronger but also faster, and if transform make Goku jump his AP infinitely, his speed should also jump infinitely which kinda make no sense. How did we solve this???

 

[Bernkastelll]

. How did we solve this???

Db doesnt care to "infinitely higher" thats a wiki thing, or if u want, just turn Battle of Gods goku into tier 2

 

[Orange]

Nah it is not about accepted or not, more like the verse totally ignore any kind of numeral multiplier after the whole Frieza Arc, that why SSJ2 and 3 and above being treated as unquantifiable multipliers above previous form

The only problem with this is kind of what we use multiplier for, i suddenly think about a case: SSB make Goku jump from 3-A to Low 2-C, and Low 2-C as we all know is infinite above 3-A, but at the same time transform not just make them stronger but also faster, and if transform make Goku jump his AP infinitely, his speed should also jump infinitely which kinda make no sense. How did we solve this???

Either ignore the inconsistency
Give goku infinite speed
Or make goku already low 2-c or whatever in earlier forms

 

[Vietthai96]

Db doesnt care to "infinitely higher" thats a wiki thing, or if u want, just turn Battle of Gods goku into tier 2

Yes, but at the same time wiki treat that SSB will make Goku jump from 3-A to Low 2-C, an infinite gap and transformation have been solidly specific that transform to SS increase both AP and Speed that mean if AP can jump infinitely then Speed should also jump infinitely, we can't just say DB doesn't care about the thing, if we said that then we should also apply this to Wiki as: we also doesn't care about this

 

[Orange]

Yes, but at the same time wiki treat that SSB will make Goku jump from 3-A to Low 2-C, an infinite gap and transformation have been solidly specific that transform to SS increase both AP and Speed that mean if AP can jump infinitely then Speed should also jump infinitely, we can't just say DB doesn't care about the thing, if we said that then we should also apply this to Wiki as: we also doesn't care about this

DBS or most verses aren't for us powerscalere, some don't know the difference between destroying the matter or destroying a space time. Some don't know Jack shit about dimensionality and higher dimensional existence. Some has diffrentbrules of time travel, most of thke breaks physics almost daily.
There are other verses that make characters jump from 3-A to whatever is above without giving them infinite or immeasurable speed.
But if we give characters in dbs infinite speed, we will have some massive inconsistencies and outliers.
So we just ignore that loophole instead of ignoring the whole transformation which has a lot of evidence backing it up.
So we just gonna role with the ssb multiplier until there are more feats that support infinite speed or something like that.
The best solutions wouldn't be ignoring the whole transformation, just the parts that doesn't make sense or we will end up downplaying the verse severely

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

Yes, but at the same time wiki treat that SSB will make Goku jump from 3-A to Low 2-C, an infinite gap and transformation have been solidly specific that transform to SS increase both AP and Speed that mean if AP can jump infinitely then Speed should also jump infinitely, we can't just say DB doesn't care about the thing, if we said that then we should also apply this to Wiki as: we also doesn't care about this

This is simply a case-by-case situation. Some verses like Dragon Ball simply do not treat 4-D/Low 2-C and higher dimensions in general as infinitely greater than 3-D/3-A, while some verses do. Fiction in itself is inconsistent on how dimensions work since not all fictional products treat higher dimensions the exact same way. Super and especially Heroes don't treat 4-D as this "infinitely greater/larger" concept, while some verses actually do. Simple as that

 

[Orange]

I mean if we want to get technically, almost every verse doesn't make its character make sonic booms when going at the speed of sound, or they don't get turned into a black hole when the reach speed of light.
It's just fiction being fiction, we don't ignore feats if they break the laws of physics, only the parts that do.
This character goes billions the speed of light? We ignore mass increasing sometimes, stuff that happens when they reach the speed of light etc...we just focus on the calculable aspect

 

[Bernkastelll]

Yes, but at the same time wiki treat that SSB will make Goku jump from 3-A to Low 2-C, an infinite gap and transformation have been solidly specific that transform to SS increase both AP and Speed that mean if AP can jump infinitely then Speed should also jump infinitely, we can't just say DB doesn't care about the thing, if we said that then we should also apply this to Wiki as: we also doesn't care about this

As I said, they arent powerscalers, they dont care if goku AP is 4-D, the multipliers are still finite in the verse, sure, we scale it as "infinitely higher" than 3-D, but DB just doesnt cares, and the same applies to speed, this is just fiction being fiction

 

[Orange]

Now that point is cleared out by multiple people.
Is there any other points?
(Why do I have to be the person who asks this, it's embarrassing ya know!)

 

[DivineAura44]

I guess we can discuss whether or not 2-C God Goku is a thing in the future.