Super Saiyan Blue Multiplier

[DragonLord]

I always kinda just thought Vegeta was Holding back and playing around, and then couldn’t adjust his power level for Broly’s new found strength in time, ether way it’s probably not enough to dismiss the multiplier outright when it seems like the creator intent

 

[Orange]

They clearly weren't equals, and there is no problem with Goku ~SSG Vegeta

No no, there are sever problems such as goku's performance was the same as vegeta against jiren.
Clearly stated that they are equal.
It's a PIS, outlier, whatever you call it

 

[Bernkastelll]

Clearly stated that they are equal.

and they were even fighting against each others in the start of the movie as equals

 

[Orange]

I'll drop it.

But my point still stands, the SSG multipliers are too inconsistent and I still disagree with the CRT.

We are using the ssb here not ssg.
And writers intent clearly wants ssb to be superior by 50x, hence why they call it "super saiyan god super saiyan "

 

[Orange]

and they were even fighting against each others in the start of the movie as equals

Indeed, the writers constantly claims that they are relatively equal to each other
And base goku literally did nothing to broly, at all. Not even ssg goku did something

 

[Hasty12345]

And writers intent clearly wants ssb to be superior by 50x, hence why they call it "super saiyan god super saiyan "

How do you know what the writers are thinking?

 

[Bernkastelll]

How do you know what the writers are thinking?

they constantly are treated as equals, each training, each villain, everything, even in the movie itself they were fighting against each others as equals, but somehow, base goku > ssgod vegeta due some wack scaling that can be rated as pure fanservice to show transformations

 

[Hasty12345]

they constantly are treated as equals, each training, each villain, everything, even in the movie itself they were fighting against each others as equals, but somehow, base goku > ssgod vegeta due some wack scaling that can be rated as pure fanservice to show transformations

I've dropped that point, it's not worth arguing in this thread.

 

[Orange]

How do you know what the writers are thinking?

I dunno, maybe the fact that they give statements, feats, plots, characters etc
...??

 

[Orange]

I repeat again: goku isn't stronger than ssg vegeta because he literally did nothing besides getting ragdolled through mountains.
Broly mobie issue is solved.
What are the next issues?

 

[RisingIons]

Can you give us some examples please?

I feel like there's way too many contradictions for me to get deeply into this, but to name a few:

Ikari Broly >= SSB Goku
SSJ Broly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSB Goku and Vegeta
Golden Frieza can survive against Broly for an hour but gets 1-shot by Toppo who's SSBE = SSB KKx20 level
SSB Goku can fight SSJ Kefla and SSB KKx20 Goku can actually harm her, meaning SSB Goku should be >= Base Kefla, where fusion is more than the sum of the parts multiplied by tens of times

the list goes on

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I feel like there's way too many contradictions for me to get deeply into this, but to name a few:

Ikari Broly >= SSB Goku
SSJ Broly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSB Goku and Vegeta
Golden Frieza can survive against Broly for an hour but gets 1-shot by Toppo who's SSBE = SSB KKx20 level
SSB Goku can fight SSJ Kefla and SSB KKx20 Goku can actually harm her, meaning SSB Goku should be >= Base Kefla, where fusion is more than the sum of the parts multiplied by tens of times

the list goes on

So according to you SSB nultiplier >> SSJ multiplier in short....right??
Simple solution :- we low ball anyway all the time, so we just assume same multiplier for both SSj and SSB and call it a day.

Edit:- only for calcs though

 

[Orange]

I feel like there's way too many contradictions for me to get deeply into this, but to name a few:

Ikari Broly >= SSB Goku
SSJ Broly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSB Goku and Vegeta
Golden Frieza can survive against Broly for an hour but gets 1-shot by Toppo who's SSBE = SSB KKx20 level
SSB Goku can fight SSJ Kefla and SSB KKx20 Goku can actually harm her, meaning SSB Goku should be >= Base Kefla, where fusion is more than the sum of the parts multiplied by tens of times

the list goes on

Ikari broly= was stomping ssg goku, once he transformed to ssb he got stronger. I don't see any contradictions
Frieza against broly is an outlier, and the fact the freiza has a really good durability, better than the saiyans, and frieza was little getting stomped by broly.
Base kefla was blitzing and hurting goku, once goku turned blue he managed to harm her. Ssj and ssb has the same multiplier, once she turned ssj she got 50x and so did goku, so goku obviously with any higher multiplier he would be stronger

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

that doesn't make it an outlier......

It is when Goku and Vegeta are shown to be matching each other in the beginning of the movie, and Goku didn't need to power down to match Vegeta's power when they fused (As unlike Potara Fusion, Fusion Dance require the stronger fusee to suppress his power to the level of the weaker fighter), and both were equal in SSB as well, and both were capable of dodging SSJ Broly's attacks

 

[Orange]

So according to you SSB nultiplier >> SSJ multiplier in short....right??
Simple solution :- we low ball anyway all the time, so we just assume same multiplier for both SSj and SSB and call it a day.

Edit:- only for calcs though

Well they have the same multiplisr.
Ssj = 50x times base
Ssb = 50x god

 

[KingTempest]

I never personally had an issue with the multiplier.

 

[RisingIons]

Ikari broly= was stomping ssg goku, once he transformed to ssb he got stronger. I don't see any contradictions
Frieza against broly is an outlier, and the fact the freiza has a really good durability, better than the saiyans, and frieza was little getting stomped by broly.
Base kefla was blitzing and hurting goku, once goku turned blue he managed to harm her. Ssj and ssb has the same multiplier, once she turned ssj she got 50x and so did goku, so goku obviously with any higher multiplier he would be stronger

SSBE = SSB KKx20 = 1000x SSG

Ikari Broly smashed SSG Goku and then got bigger and could match SSB in Ikari form, but this makes no sense because this form uses the power of the great ape in human, which canonically is a 10x boost. This only makes sense if Broly is 5x stronger than SSG in that stage of the form, which is an assumption. Matching SSB Goku if the prior form was a 5x boost (which we don't know) means in his final ikari form he got a 2x boost.

Then he goes SSJ which slaughters two Super Saiyan Blues which should put him 50 times over the SSB form, yet Frieza eats this for an hour, but gets historically one-shot by SSB KKx20 and higher level opponents, then continues to fight base and SSJ Gogeta easily.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I'm fine with the multiplier too.

 

[My_area]

I dont see why SSB having form of ki control which allows Kaioken to be stacked over SSB would change the multiplier of SSB. Evidence for the mastery of ki control affecting the multiplier of SSB would be needed.I am on board with SSB being 50 times SSG because its blantly stated and treated as such and even the earlier name of Super Saiyan god super saiyan(SSGSS) further backs up the notion before Whis changed the transformation name to blue for easier pronounciation

 

[Orange]

SSBE = SSB KKx20 = 1000x SSG

Ikari Broly smashed SSG Goku and then got bigger and could match SSB in Ikari form, but this makes no sense because this form uses the power of the great ape in human, which canonically is a 10x boost. This only makes sense if Broly is 5x stronger than SSG in that stage of the form, which is an assumption. Matching SSB Goku if the prior form was a 5x boost (which we don't know) means in his final ikari form he got a 2x boost.

Then he goes SSJ which slaughters two Super Saiyan Blues which should put him 50 times over the SSB form, yet Frieza eats this for an hour, but gets historically one-shot by SSB KKx20 and higher level opponents, then continues to fight base and SSJ Gogeta easily.

First, frieza thing is an outlier, and he has higher durability than saiyan.
And the ikari form doesn't have that much of evidence like the ssb or ssj, thus wht it's inconsistent.
Remember that broly actually gets stronger soooo much that he went from base vegeta to ssj gogeta on literally under a day. Do you know how crazy is that? While broly was fighting goku, he was constantly getting stronger while goku was getting stomped. And broly was fighting for 1 and a half with frieza, he got from made vegeta to db goku on under a half hour. So imagine the boost. Broly is literally getting trillions stronger by the time passes. So the whole movie appears to have a weird scaling sense broly has the best power growth in just under five hours and less.
Something goku, vegeta, kefla could never dream to achieve.
Next

 

[thetechmaster36]

And broly was fighting for 1 and a half with frieza

It was actually just one hour, but yeah.

 

[Stefano4444]

Agree with SSjB be a 50x multiplier, the form was clearly explained to be the combination of standard SSj1 with SSjG.

And if we accepted SSj1 as a 50x multiplier, the same should be apply with SSjB.

 

[My_area]

Dont forget guys that Broly when he just obtained Ikari transformation wasn't on par with SSB transfomation of Goku immediately,it is after he bulked up more and increased his strength did he almost matched SSB Goku which means that Ikari is giving boost bigger than 10 times by the time Goku went SSB

 

[RisingIons]

Does Goku Black for standard SSJ boosts as well?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I agree with SSB being ssg x ssj. And ssg is way greater than SSJ so essentially 50 x 50

 

[BOEGVELD]

This seems pretty straightforward, I agree. Goku's fight with Kefla also supports this.

 

[RisingIons]

Dont forget guys that Broly when he just obtained Ikari transformation wasn't on par with SSB transfomation of Goku immediately,it is after he bulked up more and increased his strength did he almost matched SSB Goku which means that Ikari is giving boost bigger than 10 times by the time Goku went SSB

His maximum bulk his the full power of the form. Ikari = human ozaru = 10x. Nothing changes.

 

[My_area]

His maximum bulk his the full power of the form. Ikari = human ozaru = 10x. Nothing changes.

Thats not true. The 10 times multiplier was when Broly transformed for the first time which gave him 10 times boost and then his Ikari transformation grew stronger and stronger increasing its multiplier to roughly matching that of SSB Goku so its very clearly over 10 times multiplier boost

 

[DivineAura44]

Couldn't Frieza just have gotten stronger? You see how fast dude grows and thing is he might just be stronger than his T.O.P. rendition and hence able to take hits from SSJ Broly.

 

[RisingIons]

Thats not true. The 10 times multiplier was when Broly transformed for the first time which gave him 10 times boost and then his Ikari transformation grew stronger and stronger increasing its multiplier to roughly matching that of SSB Goku so its very clearly over 10 times multiplier boost

The form itself was stated to be oozaru = 10x. No offense, I'm not interested in hearing headcanon.

Anywho like I said earlier, I agree with the OP.

 

[Kin201]

I think it is 10x but Broly adapts as he fights. So he became stronger.

 

[DivineAura44]

I don't even think this is a way of adapting. The way he "adapts" looks like he is getting stronger than he needs to be. Looks to me like a constant rage boost.

 

[My_area]

The form itself was stated to be oozaru = 10x. No offense, I'm not interested in hearing headcanon.

Anywho like I said earlier, I agree with the OP.

Yeah? The form itself gave 10 times boost when Broly transformed into Ikari form against SSG Vegeta and then he kept getting stronger and stronger when he fought SSG Goku clearly establishing the fact that his multiplier of Ikari form increased from just a 10 times multiplier.I am sorry but doesn't it sound head canon to you for saying that Broly didn't immediately gain the 10 times boost when he went Ikari and gained the boost of 10 times over the period of time?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Guys this thread is about the SSB multiplier. Not Broly movie scaling. Please stop derailing the thread as this topic by itself is already a can of worms.

 

[Orange]

I think it is 10x but Broly adapts as he fights. So he became stronger.

The form itself was stated to be oozaru = 10x. No offense, I'm not interested in hearing headcanon.

Anywho like I said earlier, I agree with the OP.

Yes the ozaru gave him his boost, plus rage power since he was...well raging, plus his adaption which makes him immensely stronger.

But that's besides the point.
Anything else?

 

[DivineAura44]

Anyways I would like to say I agree with this CRT.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think SSB being SSG * SSJ1 kind of makes sense; though I should note that while we did accept SSJ as a 50x multiplier, there are still note worthy inconsistencies later on since an AP multiplier can often times be more than 50x. Hence Broly going from 3-A to Low 2-C via going SSJ1, Kefla also going from 3-A to Low 2-C via SSJ transformations, and most of all; Goku/Vegeta going from 3-A to Low 2-C via going from SSG to SSGSS.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I think SSB being SSG * SSJ1 kind of makes sense; though I should note that while we did accept SSJ as a 50x multiplier, there are still note worthy inconsistencies later on since an AP multiplier can often times be more than 50x. Hence Broly going from 3-A to Low 2-C via going SSJ1, Kefla also going from 3-A to Low 2-C via SSJ transformations, and most of all; Goku/Vegeta going from 3-A to Low 2-C via going from SSG to SSGSS.

As long as we use low balled 50x multiplier for calc and speed purposes we should be fine. We can treat them as they are in actuality in normal scaling.

 

[DivineAura44]

I think SSB being SSG * SSJ1 kind of makes sense; though I should note that while we did accept SSJ as a 50x multiplier, there are still note worthy inconsistencies later on since an AP multiplier can often times be more than 50x. Hence Broly going from 3-A to Low 2-C via going SSJ1, Kefla also going from 3-A to Low 2-C via SSJ transformations, and most of all; Goku/Vegeta going from 3-A to Low 2-C via going from SSG to SSGSS.

That could be explained away is SSG is 2-C and not 3-A. It seems that might be what the entire CRT comes down to.

 

[Orange]

Or that ssg is already low 2-C...
Jk.
But remember the characters sometimes hold back they almost always get stronger in middle of a fight and that the gap between characters us bigger than we thought.
For ap, dura and stuff like that we will only accept it when there isn't soo much inconsistencies and contradictions, and for speed we will use it normally