- 31,341
- 34,071
I'm neutral then.
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I'll try to Answer this as best as i can for youCommenting on the 5th one; it sounds more like durability reduction; so it's added to the list of statistics reduction, but unless it outright drops durability all the way down to 0; it isn't quite "Negation" but rather reduction. Furthermore, DonTalkDT also mentioned a game mechanics about ignoring defense stat isn't enough to be true durability negation. It needs to have some kind of association with a hax ability that does negate durability whether it be poison inducement, spatial manipulation, existence erasure, matter manipulation, ect. Otherwise it would just be statistics reduction.
But the rest looks solid taking Dominodalek's input in mind.
woah, conceptual dbh???5. Conceptual Erasing of Opponents Durability (I say this because as you all know the defense stat is a core part of the entire DBH game and it applies to all characters, its an in game rule that all characters have a defense stat and the fact that towa can just remove an opponents defense stat right from the very game itself says alot
Nahwoah, conceptual dbh???
Well She still is DISABLING an opponents so how would you interpret that exactly?I want to make it abundantly clear that the ability isn't doing anything to the defense stat, the character's defense is still present, the attack just bypasses it.
(Otherwise it isn't tied to any particular hax, abilities of that type (ie activating when a character successfully attacks, and adding an additional effect to the attack) are very common in Heroes and pretty much anyone can have one.)
Separate ability (Goku does actually have a few cards with this ability) though neither bypass defensive skills. They work the exact same way, negating defense and DMG Reduction for that specific attack.To further back up the point, the ability that allows the DBH character to negate or bypass durability also says on Goku's profile that it bypasses defensive skills as well. Just as an extra note. I don't think it makes sense for a durability negation to be restricted from a character if they don't have durability negating hax, having a technique or move that ignores that stuff should be enough.
That should fall under Durability Negation, Durability Bypassing/Ignoring isn't a thing here.Well She still is DISABLING an opponents so how would you interpret that exactly?
Based on your comment it sounds alot like durability Bypassing/Ignoring
I Agree as wellTo further back up the point, the ability that allows the DBH character to negate or bypass durability also says on Goku's profile that it bypasses defensive skills as well. Just as an extra note. I don't think it makes sense for a durability negation to be restricted from a character if they don't have durability negating hax, having a technique or move that ignores that stuff should be enough.
OK there we goThat should fall under Durability Negation, Durability Bypassing/Ignoring isn't a thing here.
As they shouldwhy is goten and gohan getting crucified
I guess I agree, I don't see a reason why she wouldn't have those based off those scans. I'll reread them but I think this checks out.Hey Guys I was Reading through the DBH Big Bang Mission Manga and I found a few things that can be added to Towa's Profile
BFR and Dimensional Travel
Towa Appearing and Transporting all the members of the Time Patrol Away
https://cdn.**********.com/manga_5f0a6ba165175/e690d5a807d807fb18a51101828ddb37/38.jpghttps://cdn.**********.com/manga_5f0a6ba165175/e690d5a807d807fb18a51101828ddb37/39.jpg
Continued along with possibly Sleep Manipulation and Paralysis Inducement
She transported everyone to the time Chasm and as we can clearly see everyone except pan are asleep/unconscious which means that Towa must have put them to sleep cause i heavily doubt that they all decided to take a Nap at that time and I seriously doubt Towa defeated and KOed all the members of the time patrol all at the same time without a scratch. Furthermore, the time patrol are bound by Towa's Ki Cross Structures and there movements were stopped completely. Even if you want to make the point that Towa probably beat Gohan and Goten into submission, there is still the fact that goku, vegeta and trunks were all asleep with not a single scratch on them. Also in a later scan you will see that pan is struggling to stay awake/conscious.
https://cdn.**********.com/manga_5f0a6ba165175/e3fe331bab5756ca9e5dbc20c9ad9687/24.jpg
https://cdn.**********.com/manga_5f0a6ba165175/e3fe331bab5756ca9e5dbc20c9ad9687/25.jpg
Continued Along with Possibly Energy Absorption
Now this is why I said possibly sleep manipulation cause the other alternative is that Towa's Ki Crosses were simply Absorbing Trunks and everyone else's energy as well which is what caused everyone to fall unconscious. As trunks said he doesn't have any power left and it would offer a good explanation as to why both Goku and Vegeta have reverted back to base due to having there Energies Absorbed and drained, there is also the possibility that Pan also fell unconscious and that may be a result of having her energy drained to nothing as well. BUT Trunks' lack of Energy could have another reason. During this Chapter Trunks gives ALL OF HIS ENERGY AWAY to goku and vegeta which could explain his lack of energy and I dont think Goku and Vegeta would be able to maintain Limit Breaker SS4 in an unconscious state. So either Towa's Power Induces Sleep or Drains Energy or Maybe even both
https://cdn.**********.com/manga_5f0a6ba165175/e690d5a807d807fb18a51101828ddb37/25.jpg
https://cdn.**********.com/manga_5f0a6ba165175/f60d1e30a71417d7df6984b41bab9621/12.jpg
Further point for BFR and Dimensional Travel and Paralyses Inducement
Trunks and the time patrol had to be rescued by Demigra's Faction in order to escape the time chasm which evidently Towa can move to and from very easily and freely and Towa was surprised they could escape on their own with the situation only making sense to her after hearing that it was Demigra's Secretary that helped them escaped
https://cdn.**********.com/manga_5f0a6ba165175/f60d1e30a71417d7df6984b41bab9621/13.jpg
https://cdn.**********.com/manga_5f0a6ba165175/f60d1e30a71417d7df6984b41bab9621/23.jpg
So to list it all out
Towa should be given:
BFR
Dimensional Travel
Paralyses Inducement
More than Likely Sleep Manipulation
And Maybe Energy Absorption
What do you guys say?
Domino I have a question for youI agree with BFR and Dimensional Travel, not so sure about Sleep Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement or Energy Absorption - their trouble remaining conscious appears to be from their location more than anything (other media supports this), plus being worn out from the fight with Janemba. Gohan and Goten were knocked out (other media supports this) which is why they aren't conscious, Trunks clearly is conscious in those scans, Goku presumably also is since he gets a thought balloon. They obviously aren't paralyzed given that we can clearly see their bindings are holding them in place.
There is a list above also add BFR and D.Travel to itIs there still stuff to be added here?
Considering they complain in both the arcade and manga about being unable to breathe, the problem may be lack of oxygen, in which case Towa would have Type 1 Self-Sustenance.Domino I have a question for you
As you say, If the trouble of remaining conscious was because of the location, which Towa was in and completely fine, able to remain conscious without any visible difficulty
Would you equate that as Resistance to sleep manipulation or Type 3 Self Sustenance? Or if not any of those then something else maybe?
Sorry to burst in, but that's exactly what Fire Dragon does, and if you think treating Durability as half isn't Durability Negation either then make a CRT ig5. "Ignoring Defense Stat isn't enough to be true durability negation" yeah tell that to Fire Emblem 7 Fire Dragon and Grima who you gave Durability Negation to for the EXACT SAME REASON of ignoring defense stats and always doing the same damage regardless of what the opponents defense stat is
Sorry but the card effect is not dura reduce either, it is straight up ignore defensive stats of opponent and damage their HP directly at max damage of the card, without being reduce through opponent defensive stats. It is perfectly reasonable as Dura Neg definitionAnyways I think lowering someone's durability is statistics reduction, not durability negation, which "disabling" durability sounds a lot like reducing it to me
The difference between lowering someone's durability and negating it via an attack is simple
Reduction: Their durability is now gone, you can attack for higher damage, so can an ally or anyone else
Negation: You treat their durability as if it's gone, attack for massive damage
Well the OP could make thing get confuse cause Yugara just post the card effect here and there and forget to organize the line, plus a bunch of other card that have stat reduce effect make it hard to observe what card have dura neg, what don'tAh, the wording got me, attacking HP directly is definitely Durability Negation
Wrong about what in particular?Please make a CRT about it to be proven wrong there instead of here
OOOHHHHPlease make a CRT about it to be proven wrong there instead of here
I believe they have it placed as Absolute Zero Ice Manipulation on Demigra's profile because he should scale above Eis Shenron who in the games can output Absolute Zero Ice Manipulation though I fail to see how that necessarily means Demigra himself would have such manipulation. I think the reason to explain that was he's directly controlled Eis Shenron before and so due to being stronger should be able to replicate a similar level of cold. I personally find it to be quite a bit of a loopty loop logic for why he would have it. Think it just makes sense to have the cold be rated as colder than space since it's actually affecting people who even the cold of space can't affect. Also thank you for the notes.Why does Demigra have Absolute Zero in the first place?
For the sake of being pedantic I should note that the official translation of "Extremely Cold God Meteor" is Arctic God Meteor, and that the names of "Dabura: Xeno" and "Slug: Xeno" should be rendered as Dabura (Xeno) and Lord Slug (Xeno) respectively.
Otherwise yep, all good.
So CC Goku, Towa, Demigra, and any other DBH character with an ability that affects an opponent's stamina should all have Status Effect Inducement if that's the case then. Cool! ^_^
I'm really trying to not sound like a broken record here, but please don't forget to mention the Status Effect Inducement with Limited Bypassing of Resistance. Towa, Demigra and CC Goku should have it, Thank YouI agree that it should be limited to characters that actually have such abilities.
I'm noting it in the Mechikabura CRT I'm making as well as the Stun Status should be capable of applying to those even with a resistance so long as they have little to no stamina based on what you described. It would make sense based off this statement you put in:I'm really trying to not sound like a broken record here, but please don't forget to mention the Status Effect Inducement with Limited Bypassing of Resistance. Towa, Demigra and CC Goku should have it, Thank You
@JustSomeWeirdo @Dominodalek @DarkDragonMedeus
What are your common conclusions here, and what still needs to be discussed?